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[Giant Panda]

Even when the goal is to help save the planet?

If the goal is to save the planet then you put a tax equal the negative externality of carbon emissions and pollution on the car. It sounds like the policy is actually going to be closer to this which is good, because there isn't any rational economic support for outright banning gas cars.

 

[Peter Ian Staker]

Its not just the range. The tesla is still a large family sedan. While it may have good acceleration, its not really a car I could see myself having fun driving.

Maybe when theres an electric car thats a proper rival to something like a mazda mx5 Id be interested. But as of now all electric cars are boring and uninteresting to me.

That's my main problem. Most electric cars(and a lot of hybrids as well) are designed with people who are completely indifferent towards cars in mind. I hope we will see more affordable electric enthusiast cars eventually as the tech gets cheaper

So?

Halting oil production would raise the price of gasoline, and reduce its use. It should be worth it even if people have to pay more for its other uses.

You do realize you are basically telling a small country to abandon it's main export product. Oil will remain a precious commodity for the next few centuries at least even if we completely stop using it to power our vehicles. There are just so many uses for oil derivatives.

This applies to both gasoline and diesel cars. But as already mentioned it's not actually a ban, it's even higher taxes on buying such a car.

That makes much more sense.

 

[Protein]

Liberals tryin' to take away our guns and now our rolling coal trucks!

 

[Tawpgun]

Does Norway have smog issues? I know that atmosphere can get trapped in fjords easily

 

[Calamari41]

You do realize you are basically telling a small country to abandon it's main export product. Oil will remain a precious commodity for the next few centuries at least even if we completely stop using it to power our vehicles. There are just so many uses for oil derivatives.

Yeah, I realize that. That's why I called it a true "money where your mouth is" move.

 

[HolySheep]

Does Norway have smog issues? I know that atmosphere can get trapped in fjords easily

Yes in some places. Bergen comes to mind for example.

 

[TheAutomator]

Damn. Norway is awesome.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Yea, more taxes! Woohoo!

Not a fan of using taxes to change legal behavior but it happens all the time. I at least hope each and every penny is really used to fund endeavors that actually help the environment and not like in the states where shitty politicians just use it to fill holes in their shitty budgets.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/470331/netherlands-norway-india-looking-to-ban-combustion-engined-cars/

Looks like Netherlands want to beat Norway to the punch. India wants to shift completely to electric cars by 2030, but considering that it's India...

 

[fanboi]

Yes in some places. Bergen comes to mind for example.

Bergen has other serious issues, like Morfeo and Roboleon.

 

[SomedayTheFire]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/470331/netherlands-norway-india-looking-to-ban-combustion-engined-cars/

Looks like Netherlands want to beat Norway to the punch. India wants to shift completely to electric cars by 2030, but considering that it's India...

As odd as it sounds India would be very suited to electric cars. But yeah, do not believe that one.

 

[Staf]

The border between Sweden and Norway is open, people will simply cross it and buy a gas-powered car in Sweden. Which is great since i'm a Swede, huzzah!

 

[Kill Your Masters]

If the goal is to save the planet then you put a tax equal the negative externality of carbon emissions and pollution on the car. It sounds like the policy is actually going to be closer to this which is good, because there isn't any rational economic support for outright banning gas cars.

Climate change doesn't care about tax and economy. Earth won't suddenly go "oh they are raising taxes time to cool down"

 

[Greddleok]

is that a vagina?

My thoughts too.

 

[spekkeh]

Madness. I can understand for the Netherlands, which is basically a city 200km wide and 300km long. But Norway has 100s of kms of stretches with no civilization. What are you going to do with an electric car there?

 

[Mr. Pointy]

Madness. I can understand for the Netherlands, which is basically a city 200km wide and 300km long. But Norway has 100s of kms of stretches with no civilization. What are you going to do with an electric car there?

The cities have EV infrastructure, but if you're out in the Norwegian boonies you're kind of fucked for a socket. I imagine that's where all that Norwegian oil money will be put to work.

 

[numble]

USA is at least 30* years away from this. China 50* years. India 100* years.
*imo

Sales of electric vehicles in China outpace US:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tychode...electric-car-sales-up-162-in-h1/#5cccec141f19

The spectacular growth of the New Energy Vehicle (NEV) market in China continues; state media reports that sales were up a massive 162% to 170,000 units in the first half of the year. NEVs include pure-electric vehicles (EV) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEV).

The 170,000 NEVs were divided by 134,000 EVs and 36,000 PHEVs.

The new numbers confirm China’s position as the largest market worldwide for NEVs. The United States follows at a respectable distance in second place with sales of 64,000 EVs and PHEVs.

One of the main reasons for the stellar growth of NEV sales in China are the very generous subsidies by the central and local governments. The maximum subsidy by the central government is about 45,000 yuan or $6,740. The subsidies on local level differ per city but the maximum is about 50,000 yuan or $7,500, adding up to a total subsidy of $14,240.

On top of that many cities offer other incentives, such as free license plates (getting a plate for a petrol-powered car can cost up to $12,000 in a city like Shanghai), and free parking places.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/48ee2de6-0c25-11e6-9456-444ab5211a2f.html#slide0

China is aiming to become the world’s leading electric vehicle market, and with sales quadrupling to more than 247,000 last year — far outpacing the 115,000 sold in the US — those ambitions look on track.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/tax-b...s-but-inventories-balloon--wsj-20160712-00059

Backed by generous government subsidies, about 126,000 plug-in vehicles -- hybrid and pure electric -- were sold in the first five months of 2016, 134% more than a year earlier, said the auto-manufacturers' group.

 

[Mr. Pointy]

^
China are aiming for 5 million EVs sold by 2020 and they're probably going to hit that target.

 

[Blargonaut]

The poor driving range of electric cars compared to conventional petrol/diesel, can be mitigated if electric car manufacturers outfit their vehicles with remote charging capabilities.

Say your electric car runs out of juice in the middle of the Norwegian wilderness; what you do, see, is you pull over to the side of that desolate highway, put on your occluded safety goggles, and get out of your car to retreat to the designated minimum safe distance.

Then, with your smartphone, you call down the orbital laser onto your electric car from the solar-powered satellite overhead, using the handy GPS-enabled Emergency Charging (working title) app. A few seconds later, and boom, you're fully charged. Might need to wait for the body to cool down before getting back in though.

Although, you might have to wait in a queue, there might be cloudy skies and/or others waiting for the satellite's beam cannon to align; but it's a solution, right?

Norwegian transport dept., call me. Elon Musk and DARPA can help with the satellite setup.

 

[*Splinter]

USA is at least 30* years away from this. China 50* years. India 100* years.
*imo

With the amount of lobbying in the US, I'll be amazed if they ever ban gas-powered cars.

 

[numble]

Climate change doesn't care about tax and economy. Earth won't suddenly go "oh they are raising taxes time to cool down"

The idea is that taxation and government policy spurns behavior which in turn effects the environment. For instance, I live in Beijing. Due to congestion, you need to enter a lottery to be able to buy a car. If I want to buy a gasoline-powered car, it may take me several years to win a lottery, and even then I need to spend a lot of money for the license plate fee, and I would not be able to drive the gas-powered car for 1 out of 5 weekdays. If I want to buy an electric car, there is a subsidy from the government, a free license plate, I could drive every day of the week and it is much easier to secure the right to buy an electric car. Therefore, there is a lot of tax and policy-based incentive to encourage people to buy electric cars.

 

[Randam]

afaik norway produces almost 100% of their electricity from renewable energy.

so this is good.


doesn't make sense to push electric cars, when the power is produced in coal-fired power plants.

 

[Baron Doggystyle von Woof]

People forget how fast technology moves. 9 years is a lot of time for tech. Next year electric cars will get affordable.

 

[Theonik]

The US has tons of access to oil so they aren't that well motivated to get rid of it. China on the other hand is very excited at the prospect of course.

 

[chromatic9]

Expected really if you have lots hydropower and a small population. It would be more surprising if they weren't.

 

[Endorphineforeverybody]

Great news and first step in the right direction.

 

[eot]

My thoughts too.

It's meant to look like one yeah. It's something about a pill to increase women's libidos.

 

[sems4arsenal]

It's a step, regardless if it work or not this issue needs countries taking the initiative.

My only complaint with electric cars is the sounds, as a car guy this is what lessens the appeal but obviously the pros out weight the cons here.

 

[sinxtanx]

by 2025 EVs and solar+storage will have advanced enough for gas cars to be obsolete anyway

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

by 2025 EVs and solar+storage will have advanced enough for gas cars to be obsolete anyway

Won't be obsolete, but for the average person who simply needs a vehicle for day to day transportation, EV's will start to hit the price point where the average person could afford it.

However the big thing that is going to change are mass fleets of self driving, electric cars in cities that replace taxi's and other modes of transportation. That is the endgame for Uber and other companies of the sort.

 

[Prime crotch]

I'm curious about the impact this would have, seems like the pollution from cars is but a speck on the larger scale.

 

[TBiddy]

I'm curious about the impact this would have, seems like the pollution from cars is but a speck on the larger scale.

Also, aren't there constantly new reports claiming that electric cars pollute just as much over their lifespan as gasoline cars?

 

[wesleyshark]

You do realise that Humans will most likely go extinct unless the timeline for these things are sooner right?

I heard humanity will be dead in two years of we don't stop driving gas powered cars by the end of 2016.

But in all seriousness...glad to see Norway doing this.

 

[runningjoke]

afaik norway produces almost 100% of their electricity from renewable energy.

so this is good.


doesn't make sense to push electric cars, when the power is produced in coal-fired power plants.

It makes some sense, people breathe city air.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

I'm curious about the impact this would have, seems like the pollution from cars is but a speck on the larger scale.

Transportation is something around 20%+ of global emissions (although I think that includes shipping + aviation).

In developing countries, if you can skip the gas -> electric transition and just go to nearly all electric in a decade and a half, then that is a huge benefit.

Also in a country like the US, transportation is actually a large part of our emissions. If you can reduce that down by EV's (and have the EV's run off of renewables or nuclear), then that will also create a good dent in emissions.

A lot of this tech is coming to a head at once. Solar + wind are going to be cheaper than coal in a decade or less, storage tech growing and getting cheaper on a similar timescale as solar, EV's are going to be hitting the same price point as some of the cheapest ICE cars in a decade.

It's going to be interesting seeing everything converge at once. We're already passed the tipping point for renewables in terms of competing with conventional energy, I doubt the world will ever go back to creating more carbon capacity in a year than renewable (last two years had renewable capacity over carbon)

Also, aren't there constantly new reports claiming that electric cars pollute just as much over their lifespan as gasoline cars?

Not really. In terms of "air pollution", there was a report that because of the extra weight of the car, when the vehicle is driving/revs up the back end will kick up more particles into the air at a rate of 25% more than an ICE.

In terms of emissions, no, EV's are far more efficient, even if you the EV gets it's electricity from a coal plant. Although the gains of going from ICE -> EV(coal) is not really much at all, which is why killing coal around the world is missions #1

 

[MNC]

Love it. Just got back from a holiday in Norway; About 15% of all the cars we saw there was a Tesla; about 20% was a hybrid or electric. So crazy to see.

 

[sechsterangriff]

Also, aren't there constantly new reports claiming that electric cars pollute just as much over their lifespan as gasoline cars?

No, you get reports of about the energy and emissions caused during the manufacturing process of the EVs and how the electricity powering charging stations is produced . That's why the Tesla at one one point was considered a polluting vehicle in Hong-Kong since most of its power grid still runs on coal.

 

[Jokab]

Love it. Just got back from a holiday in Norway; About 15% of all the cars we saw there was a Tesla; about 20% was a hybrid or electric. So crazy to see.

15% Tesla? I mean Norweigans are rich, but that rich? They're not cheap cars.

 

[TBiddy]

No, you get reports of about the energy and emissions caused during the manufacturing process of the EVs and how the electricity powering charging stations is produced . That's why the Tesla at one one point was considered a polluting vehicle in Hong-Kong since most of its power grid still runs on coal.

That's what I meant. All things considered (batteries etc.), it's still pretty polluting. Just as windmills are, from what I can gather.

15% Tesla? I mean Norweigans are rich, but that rich? They're not cheap cars.

It's not 15%. 5% of all new cars are Tesla, though.

 

[Theonik]

No, you get reports of about the energy and emissions caused during the manufacturing process of the EVs and how the electricity powering charging stations is produced . That's why the Tesla at one one point was considered a polluting vehicle in Hong-Kong since most of its power grid still runs on coal.

But it's important to note that even then it's more efficient than ICE and as battery technology becomes better i.e. lighter, that will only improve. In addition to renewables, gas and nuclear replacing coal in many countries.

Norway in particular is very interesting here as more than 99% of its electricity is produced by hydro-electric plants so the only pollution EV vehicles produce there is their manufacturing and importation that isn't much worse than ICE cars.

 

[numble]

In terms of emissions, no, EV's are far more efficient, even if you the EV gets it's electricity from a coal plant. Although the gains of going from ICE -> EV(coal) is not really much at all

You seem to contradict yourself there.

 

[Fiend]

People forget how fast technology moves. 9 years is a lot of time for tech. Next year electric cars will get affordable.

It's fascinating isn't it? All you have to do is look back 8 years and look at our technological progress since then. Maybe not next year but in the next 2 years it should be possible.

 

[Easy_D]

You seem to contradict yourself there.

Isn't he just saying that at face value, it's more efficient, but until we get more greener sources for energy overall, by removing coal power for example, the impact won't be as high as it could be?

 

[numble]

Isn't he just saying that at face value, it's more efficient, but until we get more greener sources for energy overall, by removing coal power for example, the impact won't be as high as it could be?

Argument 1: EVs are far more efficient, even if it gets electricity from coal plants.
Argument 2: the gains of going from ICE -> EV(coal) is not really much at all

 

[Giant Panda]

Climate change doesn't care about tax and economy. Earth won't suddenly go "oh they are raising taxes time to cool down"

Uhh, you may want to do some research on how these things work, because you seem pretty confused. Taxes change people's behavior, which does change the earth's climate. The economy and governmental policy is directly related to the climate, and economists have been saying for years a carbon tax or market are best ways to combat climate change.

 

[AP90]

So.... my "mid life" crisis car that has a manual needs to happen in less than decade?? My wife will love this =P.

Spoiler

US resident here.. Prob in 15-20yrs before they try to enforce that here.

Edit: Forgot to mention that I am 26yrs old..

 

[pr0cs]

2025? I was told the world would be dead by 2035 due to climate change. Norway needs to get in line and ban gasoline NOW!

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

Argument 1: EVs are far more efficient, even if it gets electricity from coal plants.
Argument 2: the gains of going from ICE -> EV(coal) is not really much at all

...Thats not a contradiction, perhaps i coule have wored it better.

1: EV's in terms of energy usage for millage, when compared to ICE are more efficiant in terms of emissions, even when using coal as a source.

2: However if youre only using coal, then you wont see much of a dent in reducing emissions.

The point is, using the worst fuel source to power an EV will at worst will cause a slight drop in emissions.

2025? I was told the world would be dead by 2035 due to climate change. Norway needs to get in line and ban gasoline NOW!

Do you come into every thread just to show off how ignorant you are about stuff relaiting to climate change?

 

[Kuros]

I believe the title of this thread was refuted and that there will be no ban by 2025.

http://www.aftenposten.no/norge/pol...ikke---Venstre-Joda_-det-stemmer-199092b.html

It was just something that was discussed.

But anyways it's still good to see EV usage up.

 

[Tecnniqe]

15% Tesla? I mean Norweigans are rich, but that rich? They're not cheap cars.

State sponsors a lot of the taxes on those. Whatever the % is, it seems to be a lot.