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November Wrasslin |OT| CM Punk's Countdown to RESPECT

N

Net_Wrecker

Member
Alucard said:
Funny how badly they neutered him since his New Japan days. Funny and sad.

57bb28234e5b750e19f3ba6f96ea817c.jpg
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How do you screw this up? Look at this guy. He carried himself way better as a monster in Japan than Ryback does with none of the crowd pandering and general "try hard" vibe coming from the latter.
 
B

bangai-o

Banned
wiki'd
ddp was a replacement for Flair being injured in the fued vs Curt Hennig for the title. so i dont really recall where ddp was originally planned. the Raven fued happened after that i think.
also. Saturn put Benoit in the rings of saturn at that Starrcade.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
A-Train was the closest thing to a second Vader in Japan.

Then Vince decided he should be a weaboo for his gimmick. And we all remember Vader in WWF, so you guys shouldn't be surprised.
 
B

bangai-o

Banned
Sunflower said:
Also Face Batista was absolutely horrible, take it from me. Worst.

People shine when they're allowed to be themselves and turn it up to 11.
Click to expand...

its just that many wrestlers dont know how to pull face. Thats why I was saying a few days ago that Eddie Guerrero is one of the greatest due to being able to be both a face and a heel. anybody can be a heel nowadays.
 
T

tm24

Member
SO this is happening at CZW Night of Infamy

CZW World Title: MASADA(c) vs. Davey Richards

This is strangely a real compelling matchup
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
I'm so tired of the monster heel in general. What's the point of it? He comes in, dominates the roster for what feels like forever, and then what? You can't keep a monster going on forever. They have to become vulnerable at some point.

It's just such a stupid thing. It's not just monster personas, it's any time they debut a wrestler. Why does debut = win every match for the foreseeable future until they just flake-out.

Why can't someone debut, win some, lose some, put up great fights/promos, and try to win over the fans on way or another. Why is domination the only way to introduce someone new.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
You want a monster heel done right, look at Morishima's reign as Ring of Honor world champion.

Won By - Takeshi Morishima
Defeated - Homicide
Location - Philadelphia, PA
Date - 2/17/07

Title Defenses:
--Morishima defeated BJ Whitmer in Dayton, OH on 2/23/07
--Morishima defeated KENTA in Tokyo, Japan on 3/4/07
--Morishima defeated Nigel McGuinness in Edison, NJ on 4/14/07
--Morishima defeated Austin Aries in St. Paul, MN on 4/27/07
--Morishima defeated Shingo in Chicago Ridge, IL on 4/28/07
--Morishima defeated KAZMA in Tokyo, Japan on 5/6/07
--Morishima defeated BJ Whitmer in New York, NY on 5/12/07
--Morishima defeated Jay Briscoe in Boston, MA on 6/8/07
--Morishima defeated Roderick Strong in Philadelphia, PA on 6/9/07
--Morishima defeated Jimmy Rave in Chicago Ridge, IL on 6/23/07
--Morishima defeated Adam Pearce in Chicago Ridge, IL on 6/23/07
--Morishima defeated Nigel McGuinness in Tokyo, Japan on 7/16/07
--Morishima defeated Claudio Castagnoli in Boston, MA on 8/10/07
--Morishima defeated Brent Albright in Philadelphia, PA on 8/11/07
--Morishima defeated Claudio Castagnoli & Brent Albright in Hartford, CT on 8/24/07
--Morishima defeated Bryan Danielson in New York, NY on 8/25/07
--Morishima defeated Katsuhiko Nakajima in Tokyo, Japan on 9/1/07
--Morishima defeated Erick Stevens in Detroit, MI on 9/14/07
--Morishima defeated Bryan Danielson in Chicago Ridge, IL on 9/15/07
--Morishima defeated Kevin Steen in Boston, MA on 10/5/07

Just an unstoppable monster till he finally lost the belt to Nigel McGuinness 10/06/07.

Morishima vs Bryan Danielson (08/25/07)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anBnLyRfBOU
 
P

-Pyromaniac-

Member
At least a lot of those matches were competitive and not squashes. Unlike most monster matches in WWE.

I just don't find it at all entertaining. I mean in theory it's cool, great build up, unbeatable, then finally gets beaten by someone. But then what? I DON'T KNOW YO.
 
K

Kaladin

Member
-Pyromaniac- said:
At least a lot of those matches were competitive and not squashes. Unlike most monster matches in WWE.

I just don't find it at all entertaining. I mean in theory it's cool, great build up, unbeatable, then finally gets beaten by someone. But then what? I DON'T KNOW YO.
Click to expand...

In Morishima's case, he was no longer a regular on Ring of Honor events. He only did a few more matches as special appearances.

.....and a lot of the matches were competitive, that's what makes an unstoppable monster fun, when you throw your best at him constantly and he's still unstoppable.
 
S

strobogo

Banned
-Pyromaniac- said:
I'm so tired of the monster heel in general. What's the point of it? He comes in, dominates the roster for what feels like forever, and then what? You can't keep a monster going on forever. They have to become vulnerable at some point.

It's just such a stupid thing. It's not just monster personas, it's any time they debut a wrestler. Why does debut = win every match for the foreseeable future until they just flake-out.

Why can't someone debut, win some, lose some, put up great fights/promos, and try to win over the fans on way or another. Why is domination the only way to introduce someone new.
Click to expand...

It's a hold over from the territory days when you could have a guy come in, destroy the roster for a few months, and then the top face vanquishes him and he moves to a different place. Now they do that, but the guy sticks around for a few years. I think the face winning streak is worse, though.
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
So, December 1st's PWG show is going to be Joey Ryan's last ever appearance in PWG. Can't say I'll be terribly sad to see him go, as the last meaningful thing he did was his feud, of sorts, with Candice LeRae. Still, it's an end of an era - you can probably count the number of PWG shows Joey didn't appear on with one hand.
 
S

SousedLouse

Member
Enfinit said:
Ummmmmmmmmm, what about RYBACK???????????
Click to expand...

Now that you mention it, there are three words in that quote which illustrate the difference between Ryback and other monster heels, the ones with an actual aura of menace around them:

Mr. Sandman said:
.....and a lot of the matches were competitive, that's what makes an unstoppable monster fun, when you throw your best at him constantly and he's still unstoppable.
Click to expand...

Ryback's win record is long, but his list of victims is lacking. Up until recently he was just squashing jobbers, and his involvement in the chase for the WWE Championship is the only period of his career that I can think of where he's gone up against the best wrestlers on the roster for more than 2 weeks in a row; and even that's been interrupted with limp matches like Ryback vs. Maddox. It's fun watching him traipse around the ring, but I don't take him nearly as seriously as WWE wants me to because he still looks so green, and it's hard to make anyone look competitive when they barely compete against any serious challenges.

And while I'm on the subject of Ryback, and WWE's monster heels in general, there's something that's been bugging me for a while now. All the new ones are kind of dopey. They have almost no agency of their own outside of getting jazzed about kicking some ass, waddling into the ring, stomping some faces in, and then waddling back out of the ring. They're just sort of there. Generally, they don't really do much outside of the ring, or have any interest in the titles, or anything like that. It's like they're henchmen, if that makes any sense - they're good at wasting time and stalling other wrestlers, but they don't do much else, and they're not really a threat to anyone that matters on the show. It's really hard to make a guy look like a serious threat all on their own when they just aimlessly toss people around.

Thankfully, Ryback's making some strides away from this sort of behavior. For one thing, he's actually interested in the title now; granted, he just wants to fight for it, but that's leaps and bounds better than the build up to Hell In A Cell, where the only reason he was even in the title picture was because the face of the company was too preoccupied to make the current champ suffer. So, y'know, baby steps.
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Cool, someone uploaded this match

Rock vs Owen Hart for the Rock's IC title Owen's first singles title. Owen plays the piece of shit heel so well, and it's always amazing he doesn't get cheered just because of how good he is at it. 'My loving brother, Bret!'

And even a King commentary that proves people who were offended by the Heart Attack angle forgot what wrestling commentary used to be like
"Family members of Rocky so proud of him. High Chief Maivia of Samoan heritage"
"He's high alright. Up in the clouds somewhere"
 
D

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
And now I'm watching Owen vs 1-2-3 Kid and Chuck Taylor is OUT of his mind if he truly thinks he doesn't look like X-Pac. Not so much X-Pac X-Pac, but he looks almost identical to 1-2-3 Kid.

and Macho on commentary. YOU CANT TAKE AN EYE OFF HIYIIIIIIIIIIIIIMUHHH
 
J

Jamie OD

Member
Dragonzord said:
And now I'm watching Owen vs 1-2-3 Kid and Chuck Taylor is OUT of his mind if he truly thinks he doesn't look like X-Pac. Not so much X-Pac X-Pac, but he looks almost identical to 1-2-3 Kid.

and Macho on commentary. YOU CANT TAKE AN EYE OFF HIYIIIIIIIIIIIIIMUHHH
Click to expand...

I'm going to need a side by side photo comparison because I don't see much similarities.
 
F

Forkball

Member
Faces: I thought the most recent face Punk was great until the end of his run. It is so hard to get over as a legitimate face these days, especially at the main event level, but Punk did it (I still think turning him heel was kind of a bad decision. WWE is sorely lacking main event faces as they just threw their biggest non-Cena one away). His feud with Johnny Ace, Bryan, Del Rio, Ziggler etc. were all entertaining. His Jericho feud had it's moments but it repeated itself far too much. I think WWE doesn't realize that to make a popular face these days, they can't be some fabricated character, but they have to portray qualities of the person. Austin, Rock, Cena, they all seem to have exaggerated yet believable aspects of their true selves. Punk also did this. Punk really didn't change anything except getting watered down near the end of his run. Bryan is also good at this. He is kind of a face, but does nothing heroic at all. He is pretty much playing the same character he has been for a year, and fans have just latched onto it.

Monster heels: Believe it or not, WWE has done a good job of this in the past few years... though not with everyone. Who here didn't like Henry's run? He looked extremely dominant and brutal, and managed to get clean victories over people like Orton. He looked legit. Kane's WHC run was also really good and made him seem like a real threat until they hilariously obvious twist. He did beat the hell out of Taker like three times in a row before he was Edge'd. And maybe I'm alone with this, but I like how they are booking Big Show since his heel turn. Look at the build up to Show vs. Sheamus. Show pretty much bested him in every way, and even in the match he won cleanly. If they book Show like this for a few months, they could make a star out of someone who takes the title off of him. I do agree they have horribly botched Tensai. Even from his first match back in the E, you could tell he was much more agile and diverse than his previous WWE run. He even squashed Cena a month into his debut. Maybe something happened backstage, but I can't believe they have basically just turned him into a huge jobber. The rumor was the he was going to be Johnny Ace's muscle, but that storyline was phased out and I guess they have nothing for him to do.
 
L

LoneWolf296

Member
I still think Punk's best feud was last year with the New Nexus vs Orton. Punk/Orton at Extreme Rules 2011 was a hell of a match I don't think Orton has ever done a better RKO than the one he did off the top rope and the best part is none of you "RKO outta nowhere" marks can bash it because it was very clearly coming and it was great.

What I don't understand is if Punk is supposed to be the biggest heel in the WWE why is it only Cena and Ryback that want a piece of him? Why the fuck would Ryback want the WWE title? Is he going to eat it? What's his motivation?

My biggest problem with the WWE right now is having Jericho and Christian out right now. Survivor Series should be Team Jericho vs Team Ziggler how great would that have been rather than have that feud fizzle immediately. And Christian had a couple decent matches with the Miz before surgery maybe he could have kept him from this purgatory he's been stuck in
 
L

LoneWolf296

Member
I also think the best feud going on right now is Sheamus/Big Show. Finally someone who won't pin off a Bro Kick and seeing Sheamus deadlift 440lbs into a White Noise is just such a great feat it looks really impressive (not enough wrestlers have a decent looking moveset/finisher in the WWE right now)
 
M

McNei1y

Member
LoneWolf296 said:
I also think the best feud going on right now is Sheamus/Big Show. Finally someone who won't pin off a Bro Kick and seeing Sheamus deadlift 440lbs into a White Noise is just such a great feat it looks really impressive (not enough wrestlers have a decent looking moveset/finisher in the WWE right now)
Click to expand...

Ziggler vs the World is the best feud right now.

I can't wait to see Jericho come back.
 
S

Spirit of Jazz

Banned
LoneWolf296 said:
I still think Punk's best feud was last year with the New Nexus vs Orton. Punk/Orton at Extreme Rules 2011 was a hell of a match I don't think Orton has ever done a better RKO than the one he did off the top rope and the best part is none of you "RKO outta nowhere" marks can bash it because it was very clearly coming and it was great.
Click to expand...

I might be remembering incorrectly but did that whole feud just consist of Orton systematically destroying Nexus just like Cena had before him and how SES was fed to the Big Show? I feel the theme of Punk's feuds that year was they'd have great set-ups such as Punk wanting to take out Cena because he's the biggest shit in the company or Punk wanting to take out Orton because he's the man that cost him his first title reign. However after that they became terrible because unless you're a monster heel the only time you'd be allowed to go over a big face was in 5 on 1 sneak attacks.

Obviously that changed when Punk turned into the most popular man on the roster for a while. This meant his feud with Cena could be competitive with viewers being unaware of the outcome which in turn made for a much stronger feud.
 
M

Mr. Sam

Member
Spirit of Jazz said:
Obviously that changed when Punk turned into the most popular man on the roster for a while. This meant his feud with Cena could be competitive with viewers being unaware of the outcome which in turn made for a much stronger feud.
Click to expand...

As a fan of the Orton/Punk feud, I can't disagree. Orton/Punk was good - and better than most give it credit for - but Cena/Punk was just great television. A) Cena/Punk was well written and B) the two just have incredible chemistry together.
 
E

Entropia

No One Remembers
Bootaaay said:
Latest NXT goons;

iqgYXYOYXTcDJ.jpg
iegQJNDYQLRvy.jpg
iJRV4EeWX9FwS.jpg
i8EB5ucrCdtl7.jpg


Neville is PAC, Reid is Welsh wrestler Steve Starr and Axl Keegan & Sasha are from the New England indy scene, where they are known as Max Bauer and Mercedes KV, respectively.
Click to expand...

lol @ that Axl Keegan name

Also he looks like a balding, long haired CM Punk.
 
C

Clegg

Member
What has PAC done to himself? Last time I saw him he was a pretty skinny.

Now he's a colossus.

This what I remember him as.

pac.jpg
 
B

British Monsoon

Member
thuway said:
Are the New England wrester's any good?
Click to expand...

I couldn't say - I've seen a few Chaotic Wrestling shows, but either these two weren't on them, or they failed to make much of an impact on me.

Mr. Sandman said:
If he didn't have Hep C, what was it?
Click to expand...

I always assumed it was concussion related.

Clegg said:
What has PAC done to himself? Last time I saw him he was a pretty skinny.

Now he's a colossus.
Click to expand...

He trained a ton at the dragon gate dojo in Japan and came back ripped. Same thing happened with Ricochet, and Matt Sydal before he signed with WWE.
 
S

somedevil

Member
Raw Ratings Breakdown:

In the segment breakdown, Randy Orton and Kofi Kingston vs. Dolph Ziggler and Alberto Del Rio lost 74,000 from the opener. The angle with Vickie Guerrero, AJ Lee, John Cena and Dolph Ziggler as well as Big Show vs. William Regal gained 468,000 viewers, which is strong growth for that point in the show. Layla vs. Kaitlyn and clips to hype Jerry Lawler's return lost 234,000 viewers.

Lawler's return with the segment involving CM Punk, Paul Heyman and Mick Foley gained 745,000 viewers for a high 3.38 quarter hour rating. The end of the angle lost 876,000 viewers.

Sin Cara, Rey Mysterio, Tyson Kidd and Justin Gabriel vs. Titus O'Neil, Darren Young, Primo and Epico gained 233,000 viewers in the last few minutes. Tensai vs. R-Truth lost 253,000 viewers. Brad Maddox vs. Ryback gained 755,000 viewers for a 3.28 quarter rating in the 10pm timeslot. This is the best 10pm growth in a long time.

Sheamus vs. David Otunga lost 910,000 viewers, which would be among the most viewers lost in one segment all year. Kane and The Miz vs. Cody Rhodes and Damien Sandow lost 40,000 viewers. The lowest point of the whole show came at the beginning of CM Punk vs. John Cena. The first half of that match lost 313,000 viewers and did a 2.42 quarter hour rating. It picked up at 11pm for the overrun, finishing with a 2.99 quarter rating after gaining 528,000 viewers.
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So it seems like people like the AJ and Cena angle the Punk Angle, and Brad Maddox getting destroyed by Ryback.

The big loser for Raw is Sheamus who lost almost 1 million viwers and women's wrestling.
 
D

Deleted member 47027

Unconfirmed Member
What currency does Scott Steiner pay people in? SteinerCoins? PumpPennies? FlexBux?
 
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