Now that we have RE4 what do you think of the original ver(s) of RE4 that got axed?

border said:
The final game has objects that are lighted by lights, but nothing casts a shadow =( Didn't even the RE1 and RE0 games find a way to project shadows into prerendered backgrounds?

Is all that stuff in the "parasites" memo true?
Click to expand...

yeah, it is.
 
Laurent said:
Awesome thread! Remember the similarities between this picture and one shown in the unused stuff from Resident Evil Remake?

Resident Evil 4 (Unused? I haven't finished the game yet)
biohazard4_2.jpg


Resident Evil Remake (Unused)
003.jpg


There was another pictures IIRC that was similar from early RE4 and REMake... A room with huge columns in fire? I'll go look for it...
Click to expand...



Awesome Post! and exellent observations! the most people respond to this thread with additional info and observerations, the more badly i want the 3 other versions of RE4. man. its killing me now. I want all 4 RE4s, not just the last and released incarnation. Capcom should release them as Resident Evil X, Y and Z to tide us over until RE5. :D
 
I'm glad RE wasn't another mansion romp with a fully 3D world, over the shoulder aiming, and ghosts.

The way they finally made it is stunning.
 
so:

*Resident Evil 4 - Progenitor Virus version in strange industrial area / deep underground areas or castle
*Resident Evil 4 - Poltergeist version in mansion & castle with dolls deer heads and blue chain hook monster
*Resident Evil 4 unseen/unknown version
*Residen4 Evil 4 - Villager + Cult version in Europe that was released.
 
RE4 vs. SH4 said:
Yes, RE 1.5 looked cooler than what turned out to be 2. Even though 2 was great at the time.
Click to expand...

One thing that really stuck out in 1.5 is the number of enemies on screen at one time. I know alot of people were questioning if the PSone could even handle that. The prison section looked pretty cool also.
 
The unused portions of the game will make for excellent extras in the SUPERIOR PLAYSTATION 2 VERSION (tm) that everyone is waiting for.
olimario said:
I'm glad RE wasn't another mansion romp with a fully 3D world, over the shoulder aiming, and ghosts.
Click to expand...
Huh? I haven't played all the way through RE0, but the first one was the only game that was heavily mansion-focused. After that, things get mixed up a lot more. The main thing that seems to tie all the games together is that you always end up in a Super Secret Research Facility. Cliche perhaps, but pretty much expected at this point.

At this point, I'm wishing that they had made RE4 3 years ago and held off on the remakes. I would love to play through RE1-Code Veronica using the over-the-shoulder cam and precision aiming techniques that make RE4 so engaging. It might be nice to play through the old games to catch up on the story, but I really can't stand the idea of going back to the clunky, shitty interface of previous titles. Cue the "Oh but shitty control makes it so much more intense" apologists....
 
I think you are expecting a little too much from Production Studio 4. Right, they may have been 2 versions, one which included both the mansion and the futuristic environment (it could be 2 part of the game, like every other RE game starts somewhere and goes somewhere else) and the one we are enjoying right now. We may wish for another alternate story based on that first version to be released, but I don't think anyone could enjoy a game where you play in a mansion THE WHOLE TIME and another game where you play in a futuristic environment THE WHOLE TIME. Capcom thought this through, there is only one alternate version...
 
ANOTHER STAGE TAKEN FROM UNUSED RESIDENT EVIL REMAKE STUFF. I think Production Studio 4 simply used a stage leftover from the REmake and tried to create a realtime version. Maybe this was the first test to see if creating a game as georgous as REmake in realtime on GameCube was doable...

Resident Evil Remake (Unused)
001.jpg


Resident Evil 4 (Unused? I haven't finished the game yet)
growbio13.jpg


This is obviously the same room... The chandelier, the fences...
 
xexex said:
so:

*Resident Evil 4 - Progenitor Virus version in strange industrial area / deep underground areas or castle
*Resident Evil 4 - Poltergeist version in mansion & castle with dolls deer heads and blue chain hook monster
*Resident Evil 4 unseen/unknown version
*Residen4 Evil 4 - Villager + Cult version in Europe that was released.
Click to expand...
Don't forget the PS2 version (which became Devil May Cry).
 
border:

> The original version looks way better than what shipped this month (graphically
> speaking).

In your opinion. Objectively there's no basis for such a claim.

> It's really a shame that the engine (or the Gamecube) couldn't handle the realtime
> lighting. That's what I think is most missing from the current game.

There's plenty of "realtime lighting" in the final version.

> I wonder if the originals were powered off of a souped-up dev system or if it really
> was running like that on stock Gamecubes...

Dev kits have more main RAM and that's it.

> The final game has objects that are lighted by lights, but nothing casts a shadow =(

With the regards to shadows the only thing the final version does differently is that characters apparently don't feature planar projected shadows during gameplay. This is easily explained by the significant increase in environment complexity and number of characters on screen.

Environment shadows were static then as they are now.



Laurent:

> Maybe Capcom scrapped the idea of using a flashlight after Id Software got so many
> complaints about it in Doom III?

He may not have a flashlight but he does have a light of some kind going by the videos I've seen.
 
This just keeps getting more interesting. I love finding out about deleted and scraped stuff. It can sometimes piss you off like it does here or interestest you more. I had heard muttering of RE 1.5 but i never knew it was real. If it was so far along why didnt they want to release it? I mean were talking about capcom here. I'm sure they wanted to whore out RE some more back then.

But back to RE4 i was really hoping that some of the futuristic biohazard research facility would end up in RE4, but i guess not. It looked cool. Thanks for the interesting read guys.
 
cybamerc said:
He may not have a flashlight but he does have a light of some kind going by the videos I've seen.
Click to expand...
I've noticed this too, thought it doesn't seem to follow the gun. It seems to follow the camera only to create an effect of bump maps visually; a very subtle light also...
 
There were lots of canceled RE games... off the top of my head...

-Biohazard Dash/1.5 (PlayStation)
-Biohazard 2 (Saturn) used the 4MB RAM cart
-Biohazard Gaiden (N64) became Onimusha, moved to PS1 then PS2
-Biohazard 0 (N64) moved to GC
-Biohazard 4 (PS2) became DMC
-Biohazard (GBC) port of the first game
-Network Biohazard (DC/PC) became Outbreak on PS2
-Biohazard 4 (GC) first 3 builds
 
Yeah, there were a bunch "RE4's" before RE4

Off the top of my head, Code Veronica and DMC both begun their life as RE4.
 
Thanks Culex!

And I said there was only one alternate version of RE4 on GameCube (excluding the DC/PS2 versions which became other games). Different areas != Different games...
 
I think the hand flashlight should have stayed in, that's about it. I've noticed that Leon has one on his belt, or is just naturally light up in dark sections. I mean it's not a big deal, I just like how it looks with Leon doing the flashlight/gun combo.
 
Grizzlyjin said:
I think the hand flashlight should have stayed in, that's about it. I've noticed that Leon has one on his belt, or is just naturally light up in dark sections. I mean it's not a big deal, I just like how it looks with Leon doing the flashlight/gun combo.
Click to expand...

I think the main problem is that the lighting effect is subdued compared to the old version. The immediate area around Leon just lights up--the light has no definate shape like in other games that feature a similar effects (Luigi's Mansion, the Silent Hills, ED, etc.)
 
Laurent said:
(excluding the DC/PS2 versions which became other games).
Click to expand...
There was no DC version of RE4... if you're talking about Code Veronica, that was actually going to be RE3 but Capcom management made mikami stick the "3" on Last Escape, which was intended to be more of a side story game.
 
jarrod said:
There was no DC version of RE4... if you're talking about Code Veronica, that was actually going to be RE3 but Capcom management made mikami stick the "3" on Last Escape, which was intended to be more of a side story game.
Click to expand...

No wonder. I never understood why Nemsis was a numbered part of the series while CV was not.
 
I thought there was a flashlight beam in the sewers. Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong. I thought about it at the time though, because it seemed so obviously there.
 
Musashi Wins! said:
I thought there was a flashlight beam in the sewers. Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong. I thought about it at the time though, because it seemed so obviously there.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Leon has a little light on his belt that illuminates dark areas like the sewers. I don't think it's turned on in light areas though.
 
I don't think projected shadows would have made a big difference for player characters. It's very difficult to ever get a good look at Leon's feet or any areas where I shaow might be cast. There was one room with a reflective floor (where I assume they just re-drew the scene below the floor) and I was attempting to determine whether they actually went ahead and drew reflections of the characters as well. However, I was unable to manipulate the camera in such a way to find out. Ashley even moved much too quickly, so I could not check to see if she had a reflection either. Nice way to hide it. :P

The final game does look fantastic overall and most of the changes didn't really make a big difference. 16-bit rendering was THE biggest mistake though. I just can't get over some of the artifacts that are the result of that choice. I do not know just how hard they were pushing the Cube as it is, but sacrificing some minor details in order to run the game in 24-bit color would have been worth it (if it was at all possible). RE4 handles the low color depth worse than almost any other GC game available (outside of Warrior Within, which is more dithered than your average PSX game). It's the one thing that just drives me crazy...
 
do not know just how hard they were pushing the Cube as it is, but sacrificing some minor details in order to run the game in 24-bit color would have been worth it (if it was at all possible)
Click to expand...

You're absolutely off your rocker. That "sacrifice", which very few people even notice let alone lose sleep over, helped to make this game visually amazing. Katamari sacrificed high-poly models in order to put thousands of objects on the screen at any given time.

Plus, what do you mean you "do not know just how hard they were pushing the Cube"? Are you mad? You of all people should know how hard they pushed the hardware. They are wizards on par with Kojima's team in that department. Parts of RE4 are practically digital miracles that they can even run, but they run smoothly without hiccups.
 
Culex said:
I snapped a pic, look:

RE4.jpg


You can see the flashlight, and it emits light.
Click to expand...

Is...is that from the final RE4? If so I really didn't want to see that pic you spoilerific bastard.

If not, carry on.
 
I would have wanted shadowing for enemies and objects, more than for Leon. It's creepy and a nice way to keep an eye on enemies without having to expose yourself.

Though I do think it kind of takes you out of it when you are running around and there's all these light sources but no shadows.
 
border said:
The original version looks way better than what shipped this month (graphically speaking). It's really a shame that the engine (or the Gamecube) couldn't handle the realtime lighting. That's what I think is most missing from the current game. I wonder if the originals were powered off of a souped-up dev system or if it really was running like that on stock Gamecubes...
Click to expand...


the version we got pushes plenty more characters on screen at once.. and has much larger environments.. something had to be toned down.. im sure the cube was handling the old version just fine.. they just completely changed the direction of the game.. adn thus, the grpahical engine to match it.
 
dark10x said:
I do not know just how hard they were pushing the Cube as it is, but sacrificing some minor details in order to run the game in 24-bit color would have been worth it (if it was at all possible).
Click to expand...
It's not that simple. Certain effects require destination alpha which forces 16 bit color due to the small size of the eFB.

I won't speculate how the game would have looked if 24 bit color had been prioritized over graphical effects but I can almost guarantee that the game doesn't run in 16 bit color for performance reasons.


border: said:
I would have wanted shadowing for enemies and objects, more than for Leon. It's creepy and a nice way to keep an eye on enemies without having to expose yourself.
Click to expand...
But there are shadows. Granted, during gameplay characters only feature some sort of fancy spot shadows. It's better than nothing though and actually works rather well in many of the settings I've seen.

border: said:
Though I do think it kind of takes you out of it when you are running around and there's all these light sources but no shadows.
Click to expand...
I personally think it looks a lot worse when you have a bunch of lightsources but only one shadow as is seen in most games with some form of dynamic shadows. Proper shadows are expensive. It's simply unrealistic to expect accurate shadows in a game that pushes so many characters in such detailed environments.
 
what would have been awesome is, if Capcom gave us a bit of everything. the expansive outdoor areas of this resident evil, but other chapters based on the old version with more detail, lighting in tighter areas. but still ditching all the bad aspects of the old resident evil games that made them such a damn chore to play.


that said, the RE4 that we got is a joy to play. hats off to Capcom
 
Kiriku said:
We'll find out more about the canned version soon enough. :D
Click to expand...

oh yeah?


hmmm....is that what Capcom supposedly registering 'Resident Evil Progenitor' last year is all about? do tell! if you can.


jarrod said:
There were lots of canceled RE games... off the top of my head...

-Biohazard Dash/1.5 (PlayStation)
-Biohazard 2 (Saturn) used the 4MB RAM cart
-Biohazard Gaiden (N64) became Onimusha, moved to PS1 then PS2
-Biohazard 0 (N64) moved to GC
-Biohazard 4 (PS2) became DMC
-Biohazard (GBC) port of the first game
-Network Biohazard (DC/PC) became Outbreak on PS2
-Biohazard 4 (GC) first 3 builds
Click to expand...


interesting. didn't know of all these canceled/shifted RE games. would love to see a complete list (hint hint) :)
 
JasoNsider said:
You're absolutely off your rocker. That "sacrifice", which very few people even notice let alone lose sleep over, helped to make this game visually amazing. Katamari sacrificed high-poly models in order to put thousands of objects on the screen at any given time.

Plus, what do you mean you "do not know just how hard they were pushing the Cube"? Are you mad? You of all people should know how hard they pushed the hardware. They are wizards on par with Kojima's team in that department. Parts of RE4 are practically digital miracles that they can even run, but they run smoothly without hiccups.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry man, the results of their color depth choice produced some absolutely awful artifacts that mar the visuals at poitns. During the industrial areas, for instance, ENTIRE SECTIONS are coated in nasty, flashing bands of akwards colors.

No matter the detail of the room, when you have walls with this all over it (and mind you, it is not a static side effect; it moves and jitters all over the place in dark corners)...

15222823.jpg


It really does affect the final product.

I don't want to sound too harsh here, though, as RE4 easily stands as one of the most impressive looking games I've ever seen. I absolutely adore the game. When wondering how hard they pushed the hardware, I was not implying that they weren't pushing the hardware so much as I was wondering if it would have been possible to render in 24-bit instead. The game is a visual masterpiece, I'm not denying that, but the particular flaws present DO drive me crazy. I return Warrior Within GC for the same problems, for example. It's not a minor problem (though its impact is decreased quite a bit when viewed on a standard analog set). I feel sorry for VGA box users...
 
Zelda-Bitch said:
Damn you Capcom!! I want this version TOO!!!!
Click to expand...

Look at all of you complaining, Instead of bitching on a Video Game Message Board On The Internet!!!
Do something about it bombard Capcom with complaints.
In the past they have been happy to milk francises, you create the future.
Stand up and Fight the forces against you, and your will to enjoy these side chapters!

http://www.capcom.com/ I suggest e-mailing the US and Japanese management.
 
dark10x said:
I'm sorry man, the results of their color depth choice produced some absolutely awful artifacts that mar the visuals at poitns. During the industrial areas, for instance, ENTIRE SECTIONS are coated in nasty, flashing bands of akwards colors.

No matter the detail of the room, when you have walls with this all over it (and mind you, it is not a static side effect; it moves and jitters all over the place in dark corners)...

15222823.jpg


It really does affect the final product.

I don't want to sound too harsh here, though, as RE4 easily stands as one of the most impressive looking games I've ever seen. I absolutely adore the game. When wondering how hard they pushed the hardware, I was not implying that they weren't pushing the hardware so much as I was wondering if it would have been possible to render in 24-bit instead. The game is a visual masterpiece, I'm not denying that, but the particular flaws present DO drive me crazy. I return Warrior Within GC for the same problems, for example. It's not a minor problem (though its impact is decreased quite a bit when viewed on a standard analog set). I feel sorry for VGA box users...
Click to expand...



well we cant change RE4, but do look forward to 24-bit color or 32-bit color RE5 on Revolution & PS3 ^___^ thanks to ATI & Nvidia. remember Gamecube's feature set was decided on in 1998. implemented in 1999.
 
xexex said:
oh yeah?


hmmm....is that what Capcom supposedly registering 'Resident Evil Progenitor' last year is all about? do tell! if you can.
Click to expand...

Yeah (for the first question)! I don't know anything about progenitor though. But we'll know the answer as to why Capcom canned the "previous" versions of RE4 (well, hopefully we will). Will be very interesting to read, because I thought those versions looked really interesting and different.
I don't know exactly when we'll see it though...I'll leave that to the man responsible...I don't want to talk too much. Let's just wait and see. :|
 
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