Support NeoGAF

[norinrad21]

Pretty much. XBOX fans and Sony fans to a slightly lesser extent are very self depreciating of their console of choice, which tends to force the companies to make changes for the better. Nintendo fans will defend the living hell out of any first party game whether it is a 5.5 or 9.5. They will also champion any prodcut for DS or Wii that sells well, just for the fact that it makes Nintendo money. I could go on and on about this, but Nintendos main focus is making products that appeal to people who do not typically play video games. To any Nintendo fan, that should be troubling, and championing their success with those sort of games is counterproductive.

Oh another joker.

Nintendo creates games for all, a game even your grandma could look at and say cool i got to try this. Your retarded logic somehow doesn't see the nature of Nintendo's games and that my friend is what is very troubling.

On Average even a shitty Nintendo game can hold its own against any 3rd party offering, almost. If you think you are a grown man and it makes you ashamed of playing Nintendo games, then you sir better quit gaming now. You are wasting your money looking at pretty graphics.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Indeed. One subpar month = dead? If that's the case then the xbox360 should've been declared dead since 2006 looking at its monthly sales number in Japan. Now, if this sales trend continues for the next 6-8 months and then I can see calling the ps3 a failure but claiming the system to be dead at this juncture is a bit too premature. With that said, I can't imagine things improving whole lot for sony until there's a significant price cut for the ps3.

About 4 months, actually...

 

[Deku]

Pretty much. XBOX fans and Sony fans to a slightly lesser extent are very self depreciating of their console of choice, which tends to force the companies to make changes for the better. Nintendo fans will defend the living hell out of any first party game whether it is a 5.5 or 9.5. They will also champion any prodcut for DS or Wii that sells well, just for the fact that it makes Nintendo money. I could go on and on about this, but Nintendos main focus is making products that appeal to people who do not typically play video games. To any Nintendo fan, that should be troubling, and championing their success with those sort of games is counterproductive.

You're generalizing behavior and preferences. Not all hardcore gamers want to play Crackdown, and not all casuals want Wii Sports. People have specific tastes and you're basically lamenting the loss of hegemony of one very specific strand of gaming. It's not even the death of it, like Nintendo since 1996, gamers who want to play a specific type of game will just have to pick up a 360, and maybe a PS3 when that system proves itself.

 

[reilo]

What about Wii Sports? And it's a commercial success to boot.

Spoiler

yeah, I went there

Exactly how is Wii Sports gameplay different from any other sports game? Just because you play it differently, does not mean the gameplay is different. Why do people not understand this?

Does Zelda: TP (Wii) have more innovative gameplay than Zelda: TP (GC)? Is what you see on your TV different from one version to the next?

 

[Wiitard]

God I love these threads.

These "NINTENDO IS RUINING THE INDUSTRY, DAMN CASUALS, GET OFF MY LAWN, DURR I AM LEAVING THESE THREADS FOREVURRRRRRRRRR" posts are better than goddamn sex. I feel like I need a smoke after laughing my ass off at them.

I have to break it as gently as I can: dude, you need to get better sex.

 

[Pureauthor]

Exactly how is Wii Sports gameplay different from any other sports game? Just because you play it differently, does not mean the gameplay is different. Why do people not understand this?

Does Zelda: TP (Wii) have more innovative gameplay than Zelda: TP (GC)? Is what you see on your TV different from one version to the next?

The gameplay is different, man. (Although not necessarily for the better).

In tennis, you don't even get to move your guy around. =\

One subpar month = dead?

Lessee... November, December, January, February.

That makes 4, and this is what is known as a trend.

 

[vasuba]

Indeed. One subpar month = dead? If that's the case then the xbox360 should've been declared dead since 2006 looking at its monthly sales number in Japan. Now, if this sales trend continues for the next 6-8 months and then I can see calling the ps3 a failure but claiming the system to be dead at this juncture is a bit too premature. With that said, I can't imagine things improving whole lot for sony until there's a significant price cut for the ps3.

Xbox 360 is dead in japan. and its been declared dead since launch there. its tried to recover and return to life but its not happening.

 

[reilo]

Oh another joker.

Nintendo creates games for all, a game even your grandma could look at and say cool i got to try this. Your retarded logic somehow doesn't see the nature of Nintendo's games and that my friend is what is very troubling.

On Average even a shitty Nintendo game can hold its own against any 3rd party offering, almost. If you think you are a grown man and it makes you ashamed of playing Nintendo games, then you sir better quit gaming now. You are wasting your money looking at pretty graphics.

And as a hardcore gamer I should be happy about Nintendo's "everyone can play it!" approach because..?

I guess I should be ecstatic next time a studio decides to edit a movie I was anticipating that was intended to be rated-R down to PG-13 because more people get to see it.

 

[chibcicylist]

Exactly how is Wii Sports gameplay different from any other sports game? Just because you play it differently, does not mean the gameplay is different. Why do people not understand this?

:lol

Are you serious?

 

[Monk]

Exactly how is Wii Sports gameplay different from any other sports game? Just because you play it differently, does not mean the gameplay is different. Why do people not understand this?

Does Zelda: TP (Wii) have more innovative gameplay than Zelda: TP (GC)? Is what you see on your TV different from one version to the next?

Zelda TP Wii is imo more immersive than Zelda GC. Mimicking the actions of the avatar really adds to that more than what mere graphics can do imo.

 

[Stoney Mason]

And as a hardcore gamer I should be happy about Nintendo's "everyone can play it!" approach

Actually nobody cares. They are too busy playing the games and buying the systems.

 

[reilo]

Zelda TP Wii is imo more immersive than Zelda GC. Mimicking the actions of the avatar really adds to that more than what mere graphics can do imo.

Immersive = innovative?

C'mon. Tell me how the gameplay is more INNOVATIVE?

 

[Wiitard]

Exactly how is Wii Sports gameplay different from any other sports game? Just because you play it differently, does not mean the gameplay is different. Why do people not understand this?

Does Zelda: TP (Wii) have more innovative gameplay than Zelda: TP (GC)? Is what you see on your TV different from one version to the next?

It is incredibly innovative in that, differently from any other sports game I know of you can invite people over who never, ever play games and they will love playing it with you. That is a ****ing major innovation. I'd like somebody to make and innovative fighter which did that.

As for Zelda, the only part I really liked is actually pretty innovative (sumo fighting). As for the rest, it's as innovative as Halo 3 and all the rest (maybe fishing has to be excepted as well).

 

[norinrad21]

And as a hardcore gamer I should be happy about Nintendo's "everyone can play it!" approach because..?.

I'm sorry Nintendo tries to do something different each gen. Send Kyoto letter to express how you feel

 

[Stoney Mason]

Immersive = innovative?

C'mon. Tell me how the gameplay is more INNOVATIVE?

Why don't you tell me some of the major innovations you are getting on the PS3 and/or 360 games you play outside of graphics?

 

[Wiitard]

And as a hardcore gamer I should be happy about Nintendo's "everyone can play it!" approach because..?

You might have friends (I know, I know, not very likely) or loved ones whom you would like to play with...

 

[reilo]

It is incredibly innovative in that, differently from any other sports game I know of you can invite people over who never, ever play games and they will love playing it with you. That is a ****ing major innovation. I'd like somebody to make and innovative fighter which did that.

As for Zelda, the only part I really liked is actually pretty innovative (sumo fighting). As for the rest, it's as innovative as Halo 3 and all the rest (maybe fishing has to be excepted as well).

I'm asking for GAMEPLAY INNOVATION. The entire point behind the Wiimote! Besides WarioWare, I have yet to see the Wiimote being used for innovative GAMEPLAY.

 

[Pureauthor]

You know, I was having fun reading through the thread and all, but I couldn't help but feel that something was off.

Then it hit me.

Where in the world is Lapsed?

 

[Wiitard]

Immersive = innovative?

C'mon. Tell me how the gameplay is more INNOVATIVE?

But you see, it proves MY point. Wii Sports - casual oriented - VERY innovative. Zelda - hardcore oriented - not very innovative.

 

[C4Lukins]

Um, what? Is that sarcasm? I thought you were one of the last people here that would judge a game by review scores.

I am not really talking about review scores, I am talking about people getting excited and defending Nintendo games just because they are Nintendo games no matter what the quality of them. I can have a lot of fun with a shitty game, Fuzion Frenzy 2, Wii Play and a ton of the XBLA games I have are proof of that. But I would never defend them, and would hope they get better. And to clarify, I am not talking about people who enjoy the Wii and DS, but those creepy over the top fans.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I'm asking for GAMEPLAY INNOVATION. The entire point behind the Wiimote! Besides WarioWare, I have yet to see the Wiimote being used for innovative GAMEPLAY.

Uh, sorry, no. I'd say making the motion of throwing a bowling ball is an innovation in gameplay.

 

[reilo]

Why don't you tell me some of the major innovations you are getting on the PS3 and/or 360 games you play outside of graphics?

They're not but I don't recall Microsoft or Sony touting innovation (or revolution if you want the exact word) as the main selling point for their consoles.

 

[Monk]

Immersive = innovative?

C'mon. Tell me how the gameplay is more INNOVATIVE?

Immersion can be considered as innovation.

 

[C4Lukins]

Oh another joker.

Nintendo creates games for all, a game even your grandma could look at and say cool i got to try this. Your retarded logic somehow doesn't see the nature of Nintendo's games and that my friend is what is very troubling.

On Average even a shitty Nintendo game can hold its own against any 3rd party offering, almost. If you think you are a grown man and it makes you ashamed of playing Nintendo games, then you sir better quit gaming now. You are wasting your money looking at pretty graphics.

I own a Wii and am having fun with it. I am making fun of you, not Nintendo specifically.

 

[Karma Kramer]

and this thread is now over...

*goes to watch seinfeld*

 

[reilo]

Uh, sorry, no. I'd say making the motion of throwing a bowling ball is an innovation in gameplay.

But the gameplay isn't changed, only the input method!

It's the difference between using a controller, keyboard+mouse, or joystick to control a plane in a flight game. The gameplay is still the same. Why doesn't anyone understand what I am trying to get at? I give up.

 

[Buttseckslol]

I'm asking for GAMEPLAY INNOVATION. The entire point behind the Wiimote! Besides WarioWare, I have yet to see the Wiimote being used for innovative GAMEPLAY.

But it's only been out for 4 months!

Spoiler

Using the same defense as the SDF can be fun!

 

[Wiitard]

They're not but I don't recall Microsoft or Sony touting innovation (or revolution if you want the exact word) as the main selling point for their consoles.

But were not you a minute ago saying how hardcore gamers push innovation. Should not those consoles, so heavily oriented towards hardcore, be, you know, all about innovation. It should be dripping from them to the carpet. Right?

 

[DopeyFish]

But the gameplay isn't changed, only the input method!

It's the difference between using a controller, keyboard+mouse, or joystick to control a plane in a flight game. The gameplay is still the same. Why doesn't anyone understand what I am trying to get at? I give up.

Exactly. Until there's some way to convey the proper context, it's just a simple replacement to regular controllers.

 

[vasuba]

Well, for the Wii sales figures, you must remember that 1 Wii = 2 Gamecubes duct taped together. So in reality, the Gamecube was the #1 selling console in February with (335,000 x 2) + (24,000) = 694,000 units sold!

Spoiler

lol hope people read this before trying to flame

 

[J-Rzez]

so is this the final FINAL nail in the coffin for sony, or do we have another few final nails to go yet?

What do you think? I mean, Sony's just starting to show off stuff that gamers are interested in, good games are starting to come out... and greater games will be coming out before the end of the year... They're rolling out an interesting online service with Home... And, it's been 4 months since it launched, and is just reaching the 3rd market...

...it's game over dude... Time to bail... I took my PS3 to Gamestop to trade it in after reading about this impending doom, they told me they don't want no system that sells under 150k/month according to NPD as a trade in... It's a new company policy apparently...

I was walking out of there, and some guy jumped me asking to hand over what I had... I told him I had my $3 in my pocket and my PS3... He gave me everything he had out of pity, saying "dude, you deserve it, I saw those NPD's, and feel for you as you're obviously more needy than I am at this point"...

Then I figured, I can do something decent with it, other than gaming on it (how can you enjoy your games with numbers like that? Shit), and at least let it run Folding@Home... Apparently, they retracted that program, because while the PS3 is a very powerful machine, they don't want to run their shit on a console that had a bad NPD month...

It's all over dude... 4 months has passed, thus this generation has come to an end... I took my Sony jacket out of the closet, left my MS one there, went out back, and buried it...

 

[norinrad21]

I own a Wii and am having fun with it. I am making fun of you, not Nintendo specifically.

the joke is lost on me then

 

[Stoney Mason]

They're not but I don't recall Microsoft or Sony touting innovation (or revolution if you want the exact word) as the main selling point for their consoles.

Just wanted to make that clear.

I think holding a baseball bat and matching your swing to the actual swing on a game is innovation. It feels more intuitive and lifelike yet simple at the same time. It is very different than the systems in place on the non Wii systems.

Either you get that example or you never will. That's the case and the potential on other games. You feel as if the system is an extension of you in spatial terms rather than fiddling with with a controller that is a non-spatial device.

I'm sure you don't agree of course. Different strokes for different folks although I think the people who "get it" are outnumbering the people who "don't get it" based on sales figures.

 

[reilo]

But were not you a minute ago saying how hardcore gamers push innovation. Should not those consoles, so heavily oriented towards hardcore, be, you know, all about innovation. It should be dripping from them to the carpet. Right?

I said they push the games to be innovative...

Octacamo in MGS4, Okami, Killer 7, gravity gun in Half-Life 2, the entire concept behind Portal. That's what I consider gameplay innovation. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

 

[felipeko]

Ok, i still didn't read it all...
But why im seeing a lot of ppl saying its just the price and the games?
You know, X360 got it all

Spoiler

($300 for the core pack, still a lot of more epic games then wii.. and has HD... and live.. and mass-market shudn't really care about the difference about core and premium, the same way they dont care about non-live-hd-wii)

maybe..
Mass-market don't really care about HD?
What about new experience?
Expand the market?

Still anybody out there that doesn't see this is actually happening?!

So the way i see, as a lapsed gamer, there's no way to sony, or even microsoft, to flip it.. yeah, games like Halo and GTA will sell a lot of X360, a price drop will help it even more...

But for most of the market Wii sports (or whatever nintendo will have next) will still be way more interesting then most of the games out there...

Spoiler

(cos of the novelty, waggle, whatever you think about it)

And wii will get the ball rolling (userbase>games>userbase>games..).. I dont think anything could stop it now...

 

[Monk]

But the gameplay isn't changed, only the input method!

It's the difference between using a controller, keyboard+mouse, or joystick to control a plane in a flight game. The gameplay is still the same. Why doesn't anyone understand what I am trying to get at? I give up.

If you dont think the mouse and keyboard set up was innovative, there isnt really much i could say.

 

[Wiitard]

But the gameplay isn't changed, only the input method!

It's the difference between using a controller, keyboard+mouse, or joystick to control a plane in a flight game. The gameplay is still the same. Why doesn't anyone understand what I am trying to get at? I give up.

Play Wii sports. Don't you see how the gameplay is only possible with a wiimote. That exactly same game with dual analogs would totally suck. The controls did change the game.

 

[chibcicylist]

You know, I was having fun reading through the thread and all, but I couldn't help but feel that something was off.

Then it hit me.

Where in the world is Lapsed?

Yeah, I actually just realized I miss reading lapsed's post. Where is he?

 

[DDayton]

I guess I should be ecstatic next time a studio decides to edit a movie I was anticipating that was intended to be rated-R down to PG-13 because more people get to see it.

I find it amusing that you appear to be equating the rating of a film with the film's quality.


In other news, I assume this means more Mario and Zelda games for me! Wheee....

 

[Zierath]

Yeah, I actually just realized I miss reading lapsed's post. Where is he?

Banned. Don't know why but he is.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

If you dont think the mouse and keyboard set up was innovative, there isnt really much i could say.

Dude, mouselook SO changed PC FPS gaming for the better! It wasn't until the Duke3D/Quake1 timeframe that more and more people started switching over from keyboard only.

 

[Duke Togo]

What do you think? I mean, Sony's just starting to show off stuff that gamers are interested in, good games are starting to come out... and greater games will be coming out before the end of the year... They're rolling out an interesting online service with Home... And, it's been 4 months since it launched, and is just reaching the 3rd market...

...it's game over dude... Time to bail... I took my PS3 to Gamestop to trade it in after reading about this impending doom, they told me they don't want no system that sells under 150k/month according to NPD as a trade in... It's a new company policy apparently...

I was walking out of there, and some guy jumped me asking to hand over what I had... I told him I had my $3 in my pocket and my PS3... He gave me everything he had out of pity, saying "dude, you deserve it, I saw those NPD's, and feel for you as you're obviously more needy than I am at this point"...

Then I figured, I can do something decent with it, other than gaming on it (how can you enjoy your games with numbers like that? Shit), and at least let it run Folding@Home... Apparently, they retracted that program, because while the PS3 is a very powerful machine, they don't want to run their shit on a console that had a bad NPD month...

It's all over dude... 4 months has passed, thus this generation has come to an end... I took my Sony jacket out of the closet, left my MS one there, went out back, and buried it...

:lol Finally.

 

[reilo]

Just wanted to make that clear.

I think holding a baseball bat and matching your swing to the actual swing on a game is innovation. It feels more intuitive and lifelike yet simple at the same time. It is very different than the systems in place on the non Wii systems.

Either you get that example or you never will. That's the case and the potential on other games. You feel as if the system is an extension of you in spatial terms rather than fiddling with with a controller that is a non-spatial device.

I'm sure you don't agree of course. Different strokes for different folks although I think the people who "get it" are outnumbering the people who "don't get it" based on sales figures.

I understand the appeal of it, which I'm fine with. But Nintendo touted that the Wiimote will be used to not only immerse you and make playing games easier, but that it will be used to innovate gameplay itself. So far I have not found a game besides WarioWare that does that -- and I don't like mini-games like that -- nor have I seen a Nintendo game in the foreseeable future that will. Metroid Prime 3 -- the game I am most looking forward to -- I'm afraid will have the same gameplay as MP2 but using a different input method.

 

[Wiitard]

I said they push the games to be innovative...

Octacamo in MGS4, Okami, Killer 7, gravity gun in Half-Life 2, the entire concept behind Portal. That's what I consider gameplay innovation. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

By those standards in my opinion Wii is mindblowingly innovative.

Was not gravity gun done in Psi-Ops behore HL2 (i may be wrong here).

Killer7 - there is a game just like that coming for wii.

Oh, did I mention Trauma Center - insane gameplay innovation, even considering in being a DS port.

Excite truck thing about controlling the exact position of your truck in the air is pretty innovative - you cannot do that at Burnout.

 

[Stoney Mason]

I said they push the games to be innovative...

Octacamo in MGS4, Okami, Killer 7, gravity gun in Half-Life 2, the entire concept behind Portal. That's what I consider gameplay innovation. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?

I don't know how you can see the innovation of a gravity gun in Half Life 2 and then use the Wii-mote and not make some sort of association between the two and spatial relationships....

 

[reilo]

I find it amusing that you appear to be equating the rating of a film with the film's quality.


In other news, I assume this means more Mario and Zelda games for me! Wheee....

When you edit out the content of a movie to be more suitable for a younger audience, then you are indirectly editing part of the meaning of the movie. This not only includes editing out gory scenes, but dialogue, what characters do on screen (such as drug use), etc. Requiem for a Dream would not have the same impact on the viewer if it was rated Teen.

 

[Pureauthor]

You know, X360 got it all ($300 for the core pack, still a lot of more epic games then wii.. and has HD... and live.. and mass-market shudn't really care about the difference about core and premium, the same way they dont care about non-live-hd-wii)

First off, why in the world did you see a need to spoiler this? =/

Second, Core Pack is The Evil Blight Upon All That Is Good And True, not mentioning that regardless, USD 300 isn't correct mass market pricing anyway. (I'd say USD 200 and lower is for consoles, but Wii seems to be proving it wrong with USD 250. Maybe it's the pack-in. Enh.)

And the X360 has games, true, but those are hardcore games. Much of GAF loves the 360 right now because it has been good to their needs, but until Halo 3 there's no real game for the casuals, nevermind nongamers.

 

[Wiitard]

:lol Finally.

I was hoping your "quoted for retardation" post got you banned... Well, the night is still young

 

[reilo]

I don't know how you can see the innovation of a gravity gun in Half Life 2 and then use the Wii-mote and not make some sort of association between the two and spatial relationships....

Ugh, the gravity gun was in the game before the Wiimote was even announced... I was able to control it just fine using a mouse and keyboard...

 

[Stoney Mason]

When you edit out the content of a movie to be more suitable for a younger audience, then you are indirectly editing part of the meaning of the movie. This not only includes editing out gory scenes, but dialogue, what characters do on screen (such as drug use), etc. Requiem for a Dream would not have the same impact on the viewer if it was rated Teen.

Please don't go down this road. You simplify a process that is way more complex and subtle than you make it for assessing artistic merit.