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[Azelover]

You didn't have to buy a video cable? Wonderful, then the only component you'd need to purchase for XBOX360 is a memory card (just like PS2). You're paying a little more for a LOT more.

Nintendo can manufacture a Wii for $135. They are selling to the system for well over cost and making a serious profit.

Is money really THAT tight? It's a ONE TIME cost and it's just slightly higher than the Wii.

People who are interested in that are buying it. But maybe the mass market consumer just isn't that interested in horsepower, and maybe people just really like the Wiimote. It's a different value proposition, changing that perception of value is part of the Blue Ocean strategy actually, and it's working. Not everyone understands or cares about the hardware itself.

 

[Razoric]

http://www.vgcharts.org/aconscomps.php?name1=PS3&name2=X360&type=0&align=0

So why were people not screaming that Mcrosoft were in deep shit back on February of 2006?
The amount of Sony hate is amazing.

l2understandsalesdata

 

[pr0cs]

Crazy to think a company would sell a system for a profit!

for a profit is one thing.. for a rape-ment is another. For what you get for the cost of a Wii you really are getting screwed as a consumer.

 

[Bulla564]

This thread reminds me of 2 things...

- gamefaqs-esque arguments about Sony's supposed doom...

- HD-DVD camp declaring itself the winner after the first few months...

 

[Kolgar]

I said this in the months following E3: the "PlayStation" brand means little if the product does not reflect the attributes that made the brand successful in the first place.

When Sony announced that price, they willingly surrendered their position in the marketplace. They utterly ceded the price/performance position to Microsoft and the 360. What we're seeing now is the result.

There just isn't room for two such similar systems, especially when one costs far beyond what people are willing to pay for a game box.

Meanwhile, Nintendo has flanked both Sony and Microsoft by creating a new category of game consoles, a very smart strategy.

Like most industries, this battle will settle out in a two-horse race. Coke and Pepsi. Eveready and Duracell. Nintendo and Microsoft. There's room for both because the systems are so different - Wii with its controller and 360 with its more traditional but prettier HD gaming.

PS3 will be the distant third. I'm starting to wonder if anything can save it. Sony better hope Blu-ray takes off fast, because that's what got them into this mess in the first place.

PS4 in 2010? Or by the time Nintendo's done with them, maybe it'll be PS2.5 in 2008.

 

[plagiarize]

This thread reminds me of 2 things...

- gamefaqs-esque arguments about Sony's supposed doom...

- HD-DVD camp declaring itself the winner after the first few months...

oh, and HOW many months of Blu-Ray beating HD-DVD was there before Sony declared Blu-Ray the winner? enlighten me.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

This argument always comes up and it's ridiculous. Just because I like old games doesn't mean I don't want to see new games as well using newer technology. I like playing old games and I like progress at the same time, is that hard to comprehend? I don't think old games are automatically bad, but would I want new games to look like PS1 games? No.

No, its not hard to comprehend. But Wii games don't look like PS1 games, do they? I like progress in games, but I think graphical progress is the least important kind of 'progress' there is, and I hope the cheap devcosts for Wii will encourage smaller publishers (like Koei, Atlus etc) to do more experimental stuff.

If the gaming market is split between: (and I'm not saying it is, but I get the impression this is what people actually want when they call Wii 'last-gen')

1) All games released to be big-budget iterations of previously good selling games, in High Def, with licenced soundtracks and celebrity voice artists (your basic franchised EA style sequels)

or

2) Games that are technically graphically sub-par but designed well to cover that, done on lower budgets and are just designed to be fun or do something unique / quirky (your Disgaeas, Gitaroo Mans and Katamaris)

I'd take option 2 everytime.
There are very few X360 games that do anything different to 'last gen' games except in a higher resolution.

 

[Dave Long]

Oh, it's certainly not crazy at all. It's very smart.

In this case, however, it has a negative impact on gamers. They skimped on the hardware and it will directly effect the games released for the machine. It seems a lot of people just don't care, though. Positive for Nintendo, negative for us.

Every time I turn on my Wii, I think to myself, "Man, this is just such a negative for gamers."

Then I sit and waggle for hours and forget about all you people who think games are all about graphics.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Whelp, it sounds like I can't have fun with my system because it's not as powerful as the other two.

You can complain about price all day my friend, but don't expect for the rest of the world to agree with your opinion.

I think sales pretty much say that most of the world does agree with my opinion. Gaming might be a big deal to you, but to most, it's a hobby. We just want to have fun, and if the Wii can deliver that, then who cares?

The only system that has proved to me that it has some value (outside of the Wii) thus far is the 360. Not for it's hardware, but for games like Gears of War, and Blue Dragon.

 

[Grecco]

:lol 30 plus pages in and people are still complaining about how Nintendo will ruin the industry. How low horsepower is gonna be awfull for games. Wow. Its gonna be a rough year in 07

 

[X26]

2) Games that are technically graphically sub-par but designed well to cover that, done on lower budgets and are just designed to be fun or do something unique / quirky (your Disgaeas, Gitaroo Mans and Katamaris)

But the Wii doesn't have those kinds of games either...

 

[tahrikmili]

There are very few X360 games that do anything different to 'last gen' games except in a higher resolution.

Which, by itself, is a huge and welcome improvement if you have a capable display.

The whole 'higher res makes no difference' argument is inexplicably retarded.

 

[Eteric Rice]

But the Wii doesn't have those kinds of games either...

Trauma Center says hi.

 

[brain_stew]

So saving $50 warrants 5 years of lower spec gaming?

A console is a ONE TIME EXPENSE. You can get a 360 for $50 more than a Wii!

Why do people still make this silly comment? Its never been true and never will be. With the Wii you have 512MB of built in storage and a piece of software that is proving to be the biggest killer app since Super Mario Bros. Heck, you even get wireless for free, oh and you get ALL of the benefits of the new console, not just some. With a Core and memory card you can't even use the best damn feature of your console, i.e. Xbox Live, you just try downloading patches, Arcade games and demos into 64MB of memory which you also need to use for save games.

So for a Core to actually "do" anything at all, you need to go to another $100's expense (memory card and game) for that you don't even get a wireless controller or access to the things that actually justify the 360's higher price tag. To me, that isn't value and it sure as hell isn't a $50 difference, especially if you have wireless.

This is discounting the fact that EVERY 360 game you buy is $10 more which adds an extra $100 to the cost for even your "average" gamer.

Edit: How could I forget the cost of Microsoft's biggest PR bullet point, HD. According to Microsoft, along with online, HD is what sets thier console apart, so we ned to add an extra $40 to that core cost for it to become what Microsoft claims it is. Even if you discount this cost, then things look pretty bad, because not only are you still spending a lot more than the Wii but you're missing out on the two things that set it apart from said console (online and HD). That's not value, that's anal intrusion of the highest degree.

 

[dark10x]

:lol 30 plus pages in and people are still complaining about how Nintendo will ruin the industry. How low horsepower is gonna be awfull for games. Wow. Its gonna be a rough year in 07

Quite the opposite, really.

Ignoring sales, Microsoft (especially) and Sony have FAR more appealing software lineups scheduled for 2007. Nintendo has a Gamecube-like lineup this year...

 

[Shig]

Total lols at all the people who were thinking PS3 would catch up to 360 in no time pre-launch.

Between PS3's shoddy start and 360's strong lineup for the rest of this year, I feel pretty confident that the next 2-3 years, if not the whole cycle, are in 360's pocket.

If you get out of the video game realm for a second, what amazes me is despite low PS3 hardware Blu Ray is currently spanking the shiznit out of HD DVD at the moment. And I suspect the same thing is going to happen in Europe after the PS3 launches.

What that should tell you is exactly how low-penetration the HD video market is right now. Blu-ray is the best selling of two formats which are selling negligably in relation to the video market at large. It's akin to making a fuss about DVD Audio outselling SACDs at this point.

 

[Chû Totoro]

Nintendo has a Gamecube-like lineup this year...

Sorry but i loled

 

[sol_bad]

Wow, Everybody has missed the obvious answer. 1 year ago, you still couldn't find an Xbox 360! They were still being sold out. PS3 on the other hand is very plentiful in stock. That's the difference.

People wanted 360's back then, they just couldn't find them.

Yea dude, you can tell trolls that all day long, yet they never seem to get that through their thick head. :lol

Yeah, however the X360 currently has 2 million+ units sitting on shelves unsold world wide. I'd say thats quite plentiful in stock. I don't consider myself a troll.

 

[beelzebozo]

Nintendo has a Gamecube-like lineup this year...

if you're trying to say they're delivering an equal amount of quality software in one year as they did over practically the gamecube's entire lifespan, you're right.

- super paper mario
- super mario galaxy
- metroid prime 3
- smash bros.

throw in the fact that you already have zelda on the system, and wii sports--which seems to be moving consoles faster than they can put them on the shelves--and i don't see this argument at all.

try something else. the "no third party support" seems to be the standard fall-back argument.

 

[Evlar]

Sorry but i loled

What he means is, the first 12 months of Wii looks like all the best games of the GameCube's lifespan released in just one year, with the exception of RE4.

That's the only sense I can make of a statement like that.

 

[Ben Sones]

But it's just a different input method. How is pushing a button not the same as jumping up and down like a monkey on speed?

Given that dancing is, like, the whole point of the game, I think it's fair to say that an input method that requires that you dance is significantly different than one that doesn't.

 

[FrankT]

Yeah, however the X360 currently has 2 million+ units sitting on shelves unsold world wide. I'd say thats quite plentiful in stock. I don't consider myself a troll.

Please tell me where you got that information. Because the last time I looked MS hasn't given out shipment details since the beginning of January, over two months ago. And yet, now you sidetrack from your original argument because the two have nothing to do with each other, nothing whatsoever.

 

[dark10x]

Sorry but i loled

Oh really?

In its second year, Gamecube had a new Mario title, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil, Eternal Darkness, Star Fox Adventures, and plenty of 3rd party games. You may have varying opinions on each title NOW, but in early 2002, that was a pretty big list.

if you're trying to say they're delivering an equal amount of quality software in one year as they did over practically the gamecube's entire lifespan, you're right.

- super paper mario
- super mario galaxy
- metroid prime 3
- smash bros.

throw in the fact that you already have zelda on the system, and wii sports--which seems to be moving consoles faster than they can put them on the shelves--and i don't see this argument at all.

No, I'm saying it's similar to the second year of Gamecube.

Zelda was a launch title for Wii while Smash was an early title (2001) for GC. Zelda and Smash have swapped roles. Wind Waker was released in 2002 (JP) and that will likely be the case for Smash Wii.

Both will have a new Mario and Metroid in their second year. Super Paper Mario is a bit different, but the GC had other big games to equalize that.

Consider the viewpoint in early 2002. The lineup was viewed in a similar fashion to that of the Wii right now.

 

[Grecco]

Quite the opposite, really.

Ignoring sales, Microsoft (especially) and Sony have FAR more appealing software lineups scheduled for 2007. Nintendo has a Gamecube-like lineup this year...

Microsoft had the biggest title of the month. A much hyped GTA like game with massive adverstisement, and an invite to the beta of arguably the biggest first party franchise of this generation.

It still got beat by the Wii. So yeah a "gamecubelike" lineup might be enough to have the Wii be the best selling console of 2007. Wont stop people from waxing poetic about its shitty hardware or how its ruining gaming for the core though

 

[Xavien]

Quite the opposite, really.

Ignoring sales, Microsoft (especially) and Sony have FAR more appealing software lineups scheduled for 2007. Nintendo has a Gamecube-like lineup this year...

This year is going to be very rough for you.

 

[GitarooMan]

if you're trying to say they're delivering an equal amount of quality software in one year as they did over practically the gamecube's entire lifespan, you're right.

- super paper mario
- super mario galaxy
- metroid prime 3
- smash bros.

throw in the fact that you already have zelda on the system, and wii sports--which seems to be moving consoles faster than they can put them on the shelves--and i don't see this argument at all.

try something else. the "no third party support" seems to be the standard fall-back argument.

Gamecube 2002

- Metroid Prime
- Super Mario Sunshine
- Animal Crossing
- Star Fox Adventures
- Eternal Darkness

I'm not sure it's hugely different...

 

[Vagabundo]

You didn't have to buy a video cable? Wonderful, then the only component you'd need to purchase for XBOX360 is a memory card (just like PS2). You're paying a little more for a LOT more.

Nintendo can manufacture a Wii for $135. They are selling to the system for well over cost and making a serious profit.

Is money really THAT tight? It's a ONE TIME cost and it's just slightly higher than the Wii.

We have no confirmation on that BOM. Kaplan is on record saying that they are make a small profit on the systems and that the wiimote is currently expensive to make (relative to other controllers).

Factor in R&D as well. I doubt they are making a serious profit. And the retailers get their cut too.

I think the price of the Wii is fine and it is all I am willing to pay for a console (all i can aford really with my mortgage and everything). And I think the wii is great value for money.

At the end of the day it doesn't really matter how much it costs for Sony/MS to produce the chips, it is whether the customer sees value in those GFX chips.

There is no doubting the computational power of those machines, but I place more value on they fun I have with the games.

I've had more fun with Excite truck than any console game for the last 3-4 years or more.

 

[brain_stew]

if you're trying to say they're delivering an equal amount of quality software in one year as they did over practically the gamecube's entire lifespan, you're right.

- super paper mario
- super mario galaxy
- metroid prime 3
- smash bros.

throw in the fact that you already have zelda on the system, and wii sports--which seems to be moving consoles faster than they can put them on the shelves--and i don't see this argument at all.

try something else. the "no third party support" seems to be the standard fall-back argument.

You're forgetting, Wii: Play, Wii: Health and Big Brain Academy, one is already selling rediculous amounts, another had insane success on the DS and the third has the potential to become a cultural phenomenom.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Which, by itself, is a huge and welcome improvement if you have a capable display.

The whole 'higher res makes no difference' argument is inexplicably retarded.

I have a pretty damn nice HDTV and a 360 to go with it, and I'll probably actually get a PS3 sometime after its launched in my country, but I also don't have any problem whatsoever 'focring' myself to 'go back' to the 'omg soooo ugly' graphics of Twilight Princess or Excite Truck.

Because they're fun and that - to me - is the most important thing I look for in a game.

 

[TheGreatDave]

Oh really?

In its second year, Gamecube had a new Mario title, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil, Eternal Darkness, Star Fox Adventures, and plenty of 3rd party games. You may have varying opinions on each title NOW, but in early 2002, that was a pretty big list.


No, I'm saying it's similar to the second year of Gamecube.

Zelda was a launch title for Wii while Smash was an early title (2001) for GC. Zelda and Smash have swapped roles. Wind Waker was released in 2002 (JP) and that will likely be the case for Smash Wii.

Both will have a new Mario and Metroid in their second year. Super Paper Mario is a bit different, but the GC had other big games to equalize that.

Consider the viewpoint in early 2002. The lineup was viewed in a similar fashion to that of the Wii right now.

Gamecube never had a Wii Sports though, or the potential of games like Wii Music, Big Brain Acadamy and Wii Health. Not to mention 3 huge games all potentially hitting in the same quarter as well as other strong first party games.

 

[Red Blaster]

Welp, looks like I'm buying a 360 this May.

 

[plagiarize]

thread needs more kittens.

 

[Merovingian]

Every time I turn on my Wii, I think to myself, "Man, this is just such a negative for gamers."

Then I sit and waggle for hours and forget about all you people who think games are all about graphics.

You waggle for hours? Really. With what games? Really i'm dying to know, because right now the Wii lineup is a piece of shit, so please enlighten me, what great games have you been playing?

if you're trying to say they're delivering an equal amount of quality software in one year as they did over practically the gamecube's entire lifespan, you're right.

- super paper mario
- super mario galaxy
- metroid prime 3
- smash bros.

throw in the fact that you already have zelda on the system, and wii sports--which seems to be moving consoles faster than they can put them on the shelves--and i don't see this argument at all.

try something else. the "no third party support" seems to be the standard fall-back argument.

Oh look, mario mario, metroid prime is 2008, smash bros.

Thats a good lineup for 2007? Wtf is this this shit. This is 2007, i'm sick of fkin mario, what am i? 12? How about some new games? For christ sakes.
Super paper mario, i don't even udnerstand the friggin appeal of that damm game, super mario galaxy looks cool, metroid prime 3 again is 2008 and if the last two are anything to go by....where we go boredom. And smash bros, a fighter for kids. Great.

It's unbelievable, MS and Sony cranking up them BIG new IPs, and all you guys want is a ****ing plummer with some fitness training on the side.

That's just great.

 

[Eteric Rice]

I have a pretty damn nice HDTV and a 360 to go with it, and I'll probably actually get a PS3 sometime after its launched in my country, but I also don't have any problem whatsoever 'focring' myself to 'go back' to the 'omg soooo ugly' graphics of Twilight Princess or Excite Truck.

Because they're fun and that - to me - is the most important thing I look for in a game.

That's like me with Mario Kart 64. Omg I loved that game. When they released the same gameplay on the DS version, I was friggin excited.

 

[Holy Order Sol]

You waggle for hours? Really. With what games? Really i'm dying to know, because right now the Wii lineup is a piece of shit, so please enlighten me, what great games have you been playing?

Excite Truck.

 

[travisbickle]

I said this in the months following E3: the "PlayStation" brand means little if the product does not reflect the attributes that made the brand successful in the first place.

When Sony announced that price, they willingly surrendered their position in the marketplace. They utterly ceded the price/performance position to Microsoft and the 360. What we're seeing now is the result.

There just isn't room for two such similar systems, especially when one costs far beyond what people are willing to pay for a game box.

Meanwhile, Nintendo has flanked both Sony and Microsoft by creating a new category of game consoles, a very smart strategy.

Like most industries, this battle will settle out in a two-horse race. Coke and Pepsi. Eveready and Duracell. Nintendo and Microsoft. There's room for both because the systems are so different - Wii with its controller and 360 with its more traditional but prettier HD gaming.

PS3 will be the distant third. I'm starting to wonder if anything can save it. Sony better hope Blu-ray takes off fast, because that's what got them into this mess in the first place.

PS4 in 2010? Or by the time Nintendo's done with them, maybe it'll be PS2.5 in 2008.

Wow, have you been practising that speech?

 

[Souldriver]

Oh really?

In its second year, Gamecube had a new Mario title, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil, Eternal Darkness, Star Fox Adventures, and plenty of 3rd party games. You may have varying opinions on each title NOW, but in early 2002, that was a pretty big list.

So why are you using "a gamecube like line up" as a negative thing than?

 

[Grecco]

You waggle for hours? Really. With what games? Really i'm dying to know, because right now the Wii lineup is a piece of shit, so please enlighten me, what great games have you been playing?

Trauma Center, Exite Truck and Wario Ware. Some Sonic on the side. Im enjoying all 4 very much.

 

[Vagabundo]

You waggle for hours? Really. With what games? Really i'm dying to know, because right now the Wii lineup is a piece of shit, so please enlighten me, what great games have you been playing?

I've been playing excite truck since it launched in Euro land. One of the best single player arcade racers ever. I do play it for hours sometimes.

 

[tahrikmili]

I have a pretty damn nice HDTV and a 360 to go with it, and I'll probably actually get a PS3 sometime after its launched in my country, but I also don't have any problem whatsoever 'focring' myself to 'go back' to the 'omg soooo ugly' graphics of Twilight Princess or Excite Truck.

Because they're fun and that - to me - is the most important thing I look for in a game.

That's perfectly fine, nobody will jail ytou for playing ugly looking low res games, but you may as well stop acting like rendering at a higher resolution is worthless because that's a blatant lie. That, or you need new glasses.

 

[dark10x]

Gamecube never had a Wii Sports though, or the potential of games like Wii Music, Big Brain Acadamy and Wii Health. Not to mention 3 huge games all potentially hitting in the same quarter as well as other strong first party games.

My original point was a response to the notion that 2007 was going to be a ROUGH YEAR for traditional gamers.

So why are you using "a gamecube like line up" as a negative thing than?

It's really not. The GC had quality, but not quantity.

The other platforms have a larger lineup with plenty of potential quality. More so than Wii (for traditional gamers).

 

[sol_bad]

Please tell me where you got that information. Because the last time I looked MS hasn't given out shipment details since the beginning of January, over two months ago. And yet, now you sidetrack from your original argument because the two have nothing to do with each other, nothing whatsoever.

America
http://www.vgcharts.org/aconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=&type=0&align=0
5.6 million.

Europe PAL
http://www.vgcharts.org/euroyearly.php?console=X360
2.3 million (although I'm not sure if it's up to date.)

Japan
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=&type=0&align=0
362 thousand

And we know that Microsoft recently announced they "sold"(shipped) 10 million units, so they've probably shipped more since then.

Arguments were related because you guys love to say theres heaps of PS3 units in stores. Well, theres heaps of X360 units too.

 

[Tf53]

I can't believe nobody posted this yet:

(from the Reggie kicks ass and takes names in Wii Sports Tennis thread)

 

[Grecco]

My original point was a response to the notion that 2007 was going to be a ROUGH YEAR for traditional gamers.

In terms of Sales Age at Gaf not in terms of games.

 

[plagiarize]

America
http://www.vgcharts.org/aconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=&type=0&align=0
5.6 million.

Europe PAL
http://www.vgcharts.org/euroyearly.php?console=X360
2.3 million (although I'm not sure if it's up to date.)

Japan
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=&type=0&align=0
362 thousand

And we know that Microsoft recently announced they "sold"(shipped) 10 million units, so they've probably shipped more since then.

and?

so both the PS3 and xbox 360 are in ample supply.

which sold best?

 

[dark10x]

In terms of Sales Age at Gaf not in terms of games.

I don't play sales numbers.

 

[firefoxsux]

PS2: 295000 x 130 = 38350000
PS3: 127000 x 600 = 76200000
PSP: 176000 x 200 = 35200000
=149750000

XBX: 000480 x 110 = 000052800
360: 228000 x 499 = 113772000
=113824800

WII: 335000 x 250 = 83750000
DSL: 485000 x 130 = 63050000
GBA: 136000 x 080 = 10880000
NGC: 024000 x 100 = 02400000
=16008000

Anyone tried this spin?

This is not spin.

Playstation = iPod

Playstation have ps1, ps2, ps3, psp
iPod have 1G 2G 3G mini shuffle nano

It is a happy family. ps3 will soar in 2007-2008. iPod launch was expensive and sold less to Creative.

who won the ruler of mp3?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Welp, looks like I'm buying a 360 this May.

Just out of curiosity, how and/or why did recent events cause you to come to this decision?

 

[Eteric Rice]

That's perfectly fine, nobody will jail ytou for playing ugly looking low res games, but you may as well stop acting like rendering at a higher resolution is worthless because that's a blatant lie. That, or you need new glasses.

So they're ugly because they're low res?

What?...

 

[FrankT]

America
http://www.vgcharts.org/aconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=&type=0&align=0
5.6 million.

Europe PAL
http://www.vgcharts.org/euroyearly.php?console=X360
2.3 million (although I'm not sure if it's up to date.)

Japan
http://www.vgcharts.org/japconscomps.php?name1=X360&name2=&type=0&align=0
362 thousand

And we know that Microsoft recently announced they "sold"(shipped) 10 million units, so they've probably shipped more since then.

Arguments were related because you guys love to say theres heaps of PS3 units in stores. Well, theres heaps of X360 units too.

Did you even look at the 2.3 million number it's from 2006/2005. The 10 million number you are quoting from MS was from the end of December 2006, 10.4 million to be exact. My point stands. You can try to troll the 360 all you want, the fact remains their numbers have been strong for a console at 399. The PS3 on the other hand, no way to spin these kind of numbers, there is no supply constraint Sony.