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[Basch]

Not getting involved in your guys debate, but just wanted to clarify, your numbers about Call of Duty are WAY off....there are probably 11 million copies of MW 3 sold on the 360 alone....probably another 9-10 million copies on the ps3...

1. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3* – approximately 9,000,000

Source: http://www.nintendogal.com/2011/12/09/november-2011-npd-group-us-sales-charts/9933/

That was November. Combined. I can't seem to find a source that lists Decembers, so I guessed. I highly doubt the 360 alone sold 11 million in America alone. Still, that's not close to 50%. But I can understand not getting in the debate. It's stupid. I'm being way too aggressive. I shouldn't care this much.

Sure, all quality games, not just exclusives you mention. As gamers, we should not be concerned whether a game is exclusive to one platform or not. And you know what? Most gamers aren't, that's why you don't see most of Sony's (or Microsoft's or even Nintendo's) games having a huge effect on hardware sales - in most cases there are just as good or better multiplatform releases.

Agreed, but I don't think Just Dance and MW3 are quality games. So... But I'm happy whenever games like Portal 2, Batman, or Dead Space sell a bunch. : )

 

[opticalmace]

I can't figure out who and why people are buying 360s. No software to dirve sales, must be casual Kinect crap and people replacing non-S models.

I bought a 360 a month ago because it has a great catalog of games and the price was good. Pretty simple really.

 

[Petrae]

This was basically the point I was trying to make. Quality doesn't translate to sales. That's why I don't understand why people here play sales like it's a football game. As gamers, we should be concerned by quality games under-performing. Not cheering on games we hate/don't like just because sales have exploded. That shouldn't matter to us. We should all want games like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus to sell even though they won't (at least those of us that liked the game). Why should I care Ubisoft made millions off Just Dance, when I don't like any of those games? If anything, we should only care about/promote good games or systems.

My original question was supposed to be rhetorical, but I should have figured as much from a sales-age thread. As far as gamers are concerned, there should be no reason.

I'm sorry, but your definition-- or the GAF definition-- of a "good" game or system is not at all relevant. You should care that Ubisoft makes millions on Just Dance so that the publisher has capital to fund other games and projects with. If you don't like Just Dance, that's fine. I don't like it either, but I can recognize that over 4 million consumers have purchased it and think otherwise.

You can lash out about the lagging sales performance of the PlayStation 3, but it's up to Sony to sell consumers on it. Consumers aren't responsible for keeping the PlayStation brand strong.

 

[Coen]

Interesting times...
I'd hate to be the guy calling the shots at Microsoft, Sony or Nintendo right now. Releasing a 400 dollar, power hungry piece of machinery in the middle of a recession seems like suicide. Yet if they don't, and opt for a budget approach, there's a big chance customers aren't going to see the extra value over current gen hardware. And going by these numbers, they have to do something. It all feels really 'damned if they do, damned if they don't' to me.

 

[fernoca]

Not getting involved in your guys debate, but just wanted to clarify, your numbers about Call of Duty are WAY off....there are probably 11 million copies of MW 3 sold on the 360 alone....probably another 9-10 million copies on the ps3...

Basch updated with some numbers, but yeah. Heck, it took Black Ops around 10 months to sell 23 million copies worldwide. MW3 is not at 21 million copies right now.

 

[Lovegooder]

My original question was supposed to be rhetorical, but I should have figured as much from a sales-age thread.

This isn't a Sony GAF thread, so that's why most of the responses to your "rhetorical" question (as if such a thing exists in blog comments/online forums) haven't fallen in line with your way of thinking, which to me reeks of "Why should the 360 enjoy such success when all it's good for are multiplats."

Like another poster suggested, tastes change. iPod is the new Walkman.

 

[Petrae]

Basch updated with some numbers, but yeah. Heck, it took Black Ops around 10 months to sell 23 million copies worldwide. MW3 is not at 21 million copies right now.

He cited numbers for all platforms in November. X360 moved over 5MM, PS3 over 3MM. Sales slowed considerably in December, and then much lower in January.

 

[John Harker]

Did NPD ever respond to Michael Pachter over his 'faulty data' suspicion?

I'm siding with Pachter on this one. I can't be the only one who sees that these numbers don't match the math in OP.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Basch updated with some numbers, but yeah. Heck, it took Black Ops around 10 months to sell 23 million copies worldwide. MW3 is not at 21 million copies right now.

a

 

[bigtroyjon]

I'm siding with Pachter on this one. I can't be the only one who sees that these numbers don't match the math in OP.

Pachter was talking about the market revenue numbers being at 2004 levels, not the hardware figures in the OP that are based off a MS PR statement that is probably talking about revenue if the numbers aren't right.

 

[Chris1964]

I'm going off of ******** which I understand are not the most accurate, but in most cases are in the general ball park give or take a million or two.

The modern warfare series is also much more popular/recognized then the treyarch games. So it shouldn't be to farfetched to believe that mw3 is close to or over 20 million copies sold.

(just checked ******** and they are pegging that mw3 has 13 million copies sold on the 360 and 10 million the ps3. So I am still being conservative with my numbers, but I highly doubt that ******** could be off by 9-10 million copies.)

Except that you list numbers someone dreamed at night, these are worldwide.

 

[Petrae]

I'm going off of ******** which I understand are not the most accurate, but in most cases are in the general ball park give or take a million or two.

The modern warfare series is also much more popular/recognized then the treyarch games. So it shouldn't be to farfetched to believe that mw3 is close to or over 20 million copies sold.

(just checked ******** and they are pegging that mw3 has 13 million copies sold on the 360 and 10 million the ps3. So I am still being conservative with my numbers, but I highly doubt that ******** could be off by 9-10 million copies.)

Use figures from that site at your own peril. X360 SKU overdone by over 40%. PS3 SKU is overdone by over half.

 

[DMeisterJ]

The really terrible thing about NPD being tight with the numbers is people making up numbers, or just using numbers from anywhere to prove a point, as we can see here.

That's unfortunate.

 

[John Harker]

Pachter was talking about the market revenue numbers being at 2004 levels, not the hardware figures in the OP that are based off a MS PR statement that is probably talking about revenue if the numbers aren't right.

Got it. Then yes, you're probably right, they must mean revenue, since Xbox is NOT 50% of PS3+Wii units sold

 

[mugurumakensei]

Got it. Then yes, you're probably right, they must mean revenue, since Xbox is NOT 50% of PS3+Wii units sold

More or less if you can answer in that way?

 

[legend166]

I'm going off of ******** which I understand are not the most accurate, but in most cases are in the general ball park give or take a million or two.

The modern warfare series is also much more popular/recognized then the treyarch games. So it shouldn't be to farfetched to believe that mw3 is close to or over 20 million copies sold.

(just checked ******** and they are pegging that mw3 has 13 million copies sold on the 360 and 10 million the ps3. So I am still being conservative with my numbers, but I highly doubt that ******** could be off by 9-10 million copies.)

You know citing those numbers is bannable right? And bans for juniors are usually permanent?

 

[GDGF]

The lack of numbers really reminds me of the Genny/SNES days, where "perceived momentum" was all important.


As in it's not immediately important how a brand is doing as much as how the public thinks it is doing.

 

[Infinite Justice]

post

Best you remove that cuz IIRC people get banned for using their numbers (there is a reason the site filters the name).

Plus a ban for a junior member is normally permament

 

[Basch]

I'm sorry, but your definition-- or the GAF definition-- of a "good" game or system is not at all relevant. You should care that Ubisoft makes millions on Just Dance so that the publisher has capital to fund other games and projects with. If you don't like Just Dance, that's fine. I don't like it either, but I can recognize that over 4 million consumers have purchased it and think otherwise.

You can lash out about the lagging sales performance of the PlayStation 3, but it's up to Sony to sell consumers on it. Consumers aren't responsible for keeping the PlayStation brand strong.

That's not how business works. If Ubisoft sees Just Dance sell millions, they'll just make another or something similar like Michael Jackson The Experience. Also I'm sure licensing those tracks cost a lot of money. Plus, there's still development. You think Ubi is going to fund another Rayman after Origins just because Just Dance sold? I don't really support publishers. I do appreciate EA, Sony, and Nintendo's efforts though and wish them the best. But if they make something bad, I hope it bombs so it discourages them from doing something similar.

Basch updated with some numbers, but yeah. Heck, it took Black Ops around 10 months to sell 23 million copies worldwide. MW3 is not at 21 million copies right now.

Still, that's worldwide. : \

 

[fernoca]

Still, that's worldwide. : \

Yeah, was agreeing with you.
MW3 is not at 21 million worldwide,much less in the US...only.

 

[Petrae]

That's not how business works. If Ubisoft sees Just Dance sell millions, they'll just make another or something similar like Michael Jackson The Experience. Also I'm sure licensing those tracks cost a lot of money. Plus, there's still development. You think Ubi is going to fund another Rayman after Origins just because Just Dance sold? I don't really support publishers. I do appreciate EA, Sony, and Nintendo's efforts though and wish them the best. But if they make something bad, I hope it bombs so it discourages them from doing something similar.

I'll never understand this core gamer mentality of wishing failure on software releases, as if it's some kind of personal offense that a game that isn't necessarily directed at them even exists. You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

You know citing those numbers is bannable right? And bans for juniors are usually permanent?

ah my apologies. I will delete

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

You know citing those numbers is bannable right?

I thought it wasn't since NPD stopped giving us actual numbers? It's still not advisable, though, since their numbers are wrong more often than not.

 

[Basch]

Yeah, was agreeing with you.
MW3 is not at 21 million worldwide,much less in the US...only.

Wow... I'm dense. lol

I'll never understand this core gamer mentality of wishing failure on software releases, as if it's some kind of personal offense that a game that isn't necessarily directed at them even exists. You are entitled to your opinion, of course.

It's the idea of voting with your money. I don't cheer on every candidate in the 2012 political race. There are some candidates I really do hope fail hard because I don't want to see them in the general elections.

From the Activision earnings thread.

They specifically state the franchise as a whole. Probably applies to Black Ops and budget releases of MW1 and 2. Not to mention isn't Charttrack and GfK for the UK?

 

[bigtroyjon]

Yeah, was agreeing with you.
MW3 is not at 21 million worldwide,much less in the US...only.

From the Activision earnings thread.

Through December, Activision sold 21.5 million units of its “Call of Duty” shooter franchise, the company said in an e- mail, citing data from NPD Group, Charttrack and GfK.

 

[Petrae]

From the Activision earnings thread.

That number includes Black Ops, MW2, MW3, and World at War. It's not an exclusive stat for MW3.

 

[fernoca]

From the Activision earnings thread.

Yeah, there's that. The wording of "franchise" was like when Sony used "the PlayStation family".But if they meant MW3, then it is great news.

 

[John Harker]

That's not how business works. If Ubisoft sees Just Dance sell millions, they'll just make another or something similar like Michael Jackson The Experience. Also I'm sure licensing those tracks cost a lot of money. Plus, there's still development. You think Ubi is going to fund another Rayman after Origins just because Just Dance sold? I don't really support publishers. I do appreciate EA, Sony, and Nintendo's efforts though and wish them the best. But if they make something bad, I hope it bombs so it discourages them from doing something similar.

You are completely wrong, in almost every point haha.

 

[Ramblin]

I'm not a fan of the ICO or Shadow of the Colossus, but I don't hope it fails.

 

[bigtroyjon]

That number includes Black Ops, MW2, MW3, and World at War. It's not an exclusive stat for MW3.

Are you sure?

Either way, it's a huge number of games which goes back to the point that got this whole discussion started and that is "consoles sell on 3rd party games"

 

[Mpl90]

You are completely wrong, in almost every point haha.

Yeah, I agree in disagreeing with Basch.

 

[Mooreberg]

In specific cases I might agree, but I typically bristle at this explanation; it's frequently cited as an excuse by fans of any particular product to explain why it's not selling well.

It is hard to overlook when we've got threads discussing how poorly they are marketing a new piece of hardware, which is ultimately a much bigger deal than any one piece of software.

On the software side of things, I still think it comes down to the impact hardware pricing had on new franchises. God of War III is still their fastest selling game, despite not having a long campaign, multiplayer, co-op, "blue ocean" appeal, or the other check boxes that help games sell these days. The best selling point compared to any other SCEA games was that it was a sequel to a big game on a system everybody owned.

Uncharted, Killzone, and inFamous seemed to have survived. Franchises like Motorstorm, Resistance, and LBP seem to be in decline. I think what helped the first three was that UC2 came out shortly after the price drop, and inFamous & Killzone 2 got bundled that season as well.

As for the other ones, it doesn't seem like the people who bought the early installments stuck around once more games were available, and people who bought the system later on didn't patronize the back catalog in significant numbers. There doesn't seem to be much correlation between quality - Resistance was never regarded as a top franchise critically, but LBP won a bunch of GOTY awards.

SOCOM 4 would have been another good basis for comparison if not for the PSN outage. It was a sequel to a big PS2 franchise just like God of War III, but the entire selling point wasn't there for six to seven weeks thanks to whatever level of incompetence on Sony's part kept that charade going longer than it should have.

I don't think Twisted Metal is going to do that great, even if the reviews are good. Black came out eleven years ago, and the entire genre seems to have faded into obscurity. Activision would have rushed out a Vigilante 8 game with some type of horrendous DLC scheme already if there was money to be made.

 

[Chris1964]

Are you sure?

It says "franchise" it can't be more clear.

 

[John Harker]

More or less if you can answer in that way?

The % is less. They sold more than what's estimated combined.

 

[Petrae]

Are you sure?

Yes indeed. I can't go into specifics per confidentiality, but we're at less than 12MM combined for X360 and PS3 MW3 SKUs LTD.

 

[bigtroyjon]

It says "franchise" it can't be more clear.

The article also calls Blizzard Activision's "online multiplayer unit" I'm not real confident in the authors ability to clearly communicate information about the industry.

Activision put out a graph that said MW3 active monthly users through the end of December was over 20 million.

Yes indeed. I can't go into specifics per confidentiality, but we're at less than 12MM combined for X360 and PS3 MW3 SKUs LTD.

The number I gave was worldwide

 

[Basch]

You are completely wrong, in almost every point haha.

What is this N4G? lol

Care to elaborate? It's up to you. I'm just curious.

 

[Satchel]

I can't figure out who and why people are buying 360s. No software to dirve sales, must be casual Kinect crap and people replacing non-S models.

Because it has the best library of games on home consoles, most of which, are now bargain prices.

It also has kinect which is an awesome Dance Central peripheral that also happens to be able to control your dash.

All this while also providing the best end user experience on home consoles.

Seems obvious really.

 

[John Harker]

What is this N4G? lol

Care to elaborate? It's up to you. I'm just curious.

Well, not to get into anything deep, but publishers do very much use cash cows to invest in the overall growth of other brands. As a "core" gamer, it's very much in your interest to have titles like Just Dance continue to sell very well.

 

[Petrae]

The number I gave was worldwide

That makes more sense, then. Thanks for that clarification. I'm locked on NPD.

 

[Basch]

Well, not to get into anything deep, but publishers do very much use cash cows to invest in the overall growth of other brands. As a "core" gamer, it's very much in your interest to have titles like Just Dance continue to sell very well.

If I heard any specific examples, I might change my tune. But I don't think Ubi or Activision are putting their resources anywhere besides Just Dance/AssCreed (no disrespect to those that like it; I'm happy for them) and Call of Duty respectively.

 

[Ramblin]

Didn't you just mention Rayman?

 

[Mpl90]

I asked this back at the beginning of the thread, but I'll ask it again: is the order of consoles for games with multiple SKUs in chart based on how much they sold ( so, first in the order the console where the game sold more, then the console where the game sold less than what it did on the first, etc. etc.)?

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

This not know what the 3DS is selling in NA is getting pretty fucking lame.

 

[Basch]

Didn't you just mention Rayman?

If true, yeah. That'd be great! But didn't they announce it as DLC a year or two ago, before upgrading it to a full scale release using the in-house UbiArt Framework? Trust me, I don't think Ubi or Activision are that bad, but I don't think they're that generous either. That probably genuinely thought it would sell quite a bit more than it did. I don't see them willingly dropping millions into a project that they know may not sell well.

 

[szaromir]

This was basically the point I was trying to make. Quality doesn't translate to sales. That's why I don't understand why people here play sales like it's a football game. As gamers, we should be concerned by quality games under-performing. Not cheering on games we hate/don't like just because sales have exploded. That shouldn't matter to us. We should all want games like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus to sell even though they won't (at least those of us that liked the game). Why should I care Ubisoft made millions off Just Dance, when I don't like any of those games? If anything, we should only care about/promote good games or systems.

My original question was supposed to be rhetorical, but I should have figured as much from a sales-age thread. As far as gamers are concerned, there should be no reason.

Some of us like being armchair analysts, trying to understand why stuff performs how it performs, what it means for the future and where things are heading. Thus performance of games like ICO and Just Dance and FIFA and Final Fantasy and COD is discussed in NPD threads.
If your feelings are hurt by the discussions here, just don't enter this thread.

 

[Ramblin]

I don't see them willingly dropping millions into a project that they know may not sell well.

What business does?

 

[Basch]

This not know what the 3DS is selling in NA is getting pretty fucking lame.

Ninteno's Q3 Report (Last page) I wouldn't worry though. 3DS is beast.

What business does?

No one does, but some are more willing to take risks than others. ; )

If your feelings are hurt by the discussions here, just don't enter this thread.

lol I entered to post a rhetorical question. If by feelings hurt you mean I care about the general sales of quality games, then yes. But don't think I'm losing any sleep over this. I'm laughing my ass off at some terrible performances on American Idol. I do care about particular games and developers performance, but that's really it. It bothers me that quality games are ignored, but that's all. I understand why, and I don't harbor any grudges. There's a lot of overreactions in this thread. And I will say, it is because of me. But believe me, I'm not that serious.

 

[szaromir]

lol I entered to post a rhetorical question. If by feelings hurt you mean I care about the general sales of quality games, then yes. But don't think I'm losing any sleep over this. I'm laughing my ass off at some terrible performances on American Idol. I do care about particular games and developers performance, but that's really it. It bothers me that quality games are ignored, but that's all. I understand why, and I don't harbor any grudges. There's a lot of overreactions in this thread. And I will say, it is because of me. But believe me, I'm not that serious.

What you consider a quality game, someone else thinks of it as an uninteresting and unappealing product not for him. Not everybody wants to spend their free time the same way you do. That's why some games you mention get ignored.

 

[TheNatural]

So no new officials numbers from anyone? Wow, what a dick move by Nintendo and Sony. The videogame industry wants to be considered on the level of other forms of entertainment but numbers only coming out at their will is a joke. We know how movies fare at the box office right after their opening weekend, yet the most basic hardware numbers aren't released. Pretty sad if you ask me.