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NPD - PS4 was the top selling console of November 2016

Once we see some numbers.
Well, what is being argued is whether the decision not to include it "hurt" Sony. Regardless of what the actual numbers are, I don't see how that claim could be supported when Sony just announced over 50M units sold. They are very clearly not hurting from skipping it.
 

Elios83

Member
Nope it's actually fairly high and rapidly growing. I'm sure 4K tv marketshare got a hefty surge this past month too. There is still a lot of confusion about HDR thigh which I think may be hitting adoption rates more than some would care to admit.

UHD sales are a whole other story. Seems like most of the mass market has made the switch over to streaming services now a days. But it'd still be a nice feature to have the option for it IMO.

You're right, UHD drive is pretty much a nice extra to have, there's no doubt that it would have made the Pro a more complete product.
But did it make sense to reduce their profit margin or sell the console at a higher price for everyone for something with really low demand (actually close to zero demand outside the US)? Obviously no. Especially when the PS4 has never been about "it only does everything" but about "the best place to play". Focus on PS4 has never been about being a media center.
And Microsoft put a UHD drive in the XB1S simply because they expected Sony to do so with the Pro and didn't want to be left totally uncovered on that front since they didn't have a new product until Scorpio.
Hironically they ended up being the only console with it and obviously they tried to use it as an unexpected selling point but considering that they're selling consoles with a really thin margin if not at a loss with all the deals and free games promotions they're doing, I guess that if they knew that Sony was not bothering with it they wouldn't have bothered as well.
 
I've never commented on how the lack of FEATURE X hurt anyone in terms of appeal to consumers because fuck do I individually know what were the secret sauces of success.

Before both of them turned out to be complete non-factors, I would had guessed that EA Access and 360 BC would've been killer apps that would've brought sales much closer to parity in regards to monthly sales in US. None of that happened.

It's important to at times recognise that our echo chamber may very well just be that.
 
These are all the new, non-remaster first party announcements at PSX:
- Uncharted TLL
- Knack 2
- Starblood Arena
- TLOU Part 2

One of the games above? Announced earlier than it could've been.

Don't forget that MS has been trying to avoid announcing games too early nowadays and they don't have enough 3rd party stuff from especially Japanese devs to support a show at the same scale of E3.

MS has not been purposefully focusing on making close to release announcements. They've spent years announcing things that are way out.

Biggest new software announcements made at E3 this year by MS:

- State of Decay 2: We have a generic 2017, and judging by how radio silent the game has been, a first half 2017 is completely off the table. We haven't even gotten a gameplay trailer from it.
- Forza Horizon 3: Debatable that this is a 'new' announcement, since its a yearly franchise.
- Dead Rising 4: This one was a legitimately fast turn around, so you absolutely have a point here. Then again, you did put a 1st party qualifier in your initial list, so technically DR4 should be excluded, but i'm keeping it here for now.

MS has not announced new software since E3 2016, and has instead been focusing on games that they announced years ago that have yet to be delivered. However, since E3 2016 was the last software event they have held, here is what did get focused on there that is long in the tooth.

Scalebound: Announced at E3 2014, still to be released.
Recore: Announced at E3 2015, We didn't see any gameplay for a full year, despite the game having a tentative 'Spring 2016' launch title when it was announced with a CGI trailer.
Gears 4: (First shown) at E3 2015 with a gameplay demo. Got a 2nd gameplay demo at E3 2016. Note: Originally announced in Q1 2014, when MS acquired rights to Gears franchise.
Halo Wars 2: Announced at Gamescom 2015, won't be launching until 2017.
Sea of Thieves: Announced at E3 2015, is currently scheduled for 2nd half 2017 release.

Announcing games far out is a practice both parties will make whenever they can. Sony just has more stuff to announce, whether its 1st or 3rd party. I'm not saying Sony doesn't announce stuff too far out - they clearly do. They also willingly give their games extended dev time if necessary.

Edit:
Actually, MS announced a new Gears was in development at Black Tusk back in 2014 when they acquired the rights to Gears from Epic. So i'm taking that 15 month note off Gears 4.
 
I've never commented on how the lack of FEATURE X hurt anyone in terms of appeal to consumers because fuck do I individually know what were the secret sauces of success.

Before both of them turned out to be complete non-factors, I would had guessed that EA Access and 360 BC would've been killer apps that would've brought sales much closer to parity in regards to monthly sales in US. None of that happened.

It's important to at times recognise that our echo chamber may very well just be that.

I don't think BC has ever been a factor in the history of the industry.

Of course it's great to have, but people buy new consoles to play new games. It's not much more than a convenience feature.
 
The last of us 2 announcement was the number 1 trending topic of Facebook. I know it's Facebook but think of all the likes/shares/views. People definitely know about that game.
Hell, even looking at some of the reaction videos on Youtube, there are a good handful of people who don't own PS4s and don't play video games but know about Last Of Us.
 
I said "nowadays" for MS. All their E3 announcement were listed 2017 and the only holdovers from overly early announcements was their 2014 E3 "3 more things"

Some of Sony stuff will surely come next year too but they're far more comfortable announcing 2018 stuff right now compared to NS.
 
Awesome. I went back to pc for a while but it's been all about ps4 for the last year. I've been neglecting battlefield even. Probably should double dip on it on ps4.
 

jaypah

Member
I don't think BC has ever been a factor in the history of the industry.

Of course it's great to have, but people buy new consoles to play new games.

Except for Blu-Ray. Oh, and DVD. But those were different times and many (most?) people are fine with streaming. Still, I would love to see the bizzaro GAF where Sony has it and MS doesn't.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
Is that raclette?
A3tu6PIobJacE.gif


No.
 
Except for Blu-Ray. Oh, and DVD. But those were different times and many (most?) people are fine with streaming. Still, I would love to see the bizzaro GAF where Sony has it and MS doesn't.

Huh? Were you trying to reply to someone else? I was talking about backwards compatibility.

Oh I see you were responding to my statement that people buy consoles to play new games. I'm just saying that as opposed to playing old games. Sure people buy consoles to use as movie watching devices as well.
 

Boke1879

Member
Hell, even looking at some of the reaction videos on Youtube, there are a good handful of people who don't own PS4s and don't play video games but know about Last Of Us.

TLOU was one of those once in a generation games that just hits. New IP and managed to get the attention from a lot of people. The game is probably over 10 million sold right now.

Like you said. Even people who don't have PS4's or play games know about it.
 

RexNovis

Banned
All these people in here taking about how exclusives are going to guarantee Sony's dominance going forward seriously need to look at the software sales for this gen. The vast vast majority of the time it is third party SW that is driving HW sales not exclusive SW. And no a single trailer announcing an upcoming exclusive without a release date (TLoU Part II) is not going to drive any meaningful amount of sales this month either. Chances are high that they will indeed end up continuing to sell more going forward but that will not be because of first party or exclusive games. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news about the reality of SW sales but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
 

jaypah

Member
Huh? Were you trying to reply to someone else? I was talking about backwards compatibility.

Nope, I was replying to you but I thought you were talking about UHD Blu-Ray. I must have just read that in another comment. FWIW I'd also like to see the bizzaro conversation about BC too.
 
All these people in here taking about how exclusives are going to garuntee Sony's dominance going forward seriously need to look at the software sales for this gen. The vast vast majority of the time it is third party SW that is driving HW sales not exclusive SW. And no a single trailer announcing an upcoming exclusive without a release date (TLoU Part II) is not going to drive any meaningful amount of sales this month either. Chances are high that they will indeed end up continuing to sell more going forward but that will not be because of first party or exclusive games. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news about the reality of SW sales but that's just how the cookie crumbles.

Who are all these people? I haven't seen any one say exclusives will guarantee dominance.
 
Nope, I was replying to you but I thought you were talking about UHD Blu-Ray. I must have just read that in another comment. FWIW I'd also like to see the bizzaro conversation about BC too.

While not exactly the "bizzaro" scenario you are referring to, last gen PS3 started with virtually complete BC with the previous two gens, while the 360 kinda had BC with the OG Xbox.

I think most people back then were saying that while the BC on the original 60gb PS3 was nice, it wasn't really going to sell the console. Eventually the PS3 had no PS2 BC at all and sales didn't suffer at all from it.

I see BC as a feature that is kind of a "goodwill" feature for the dedicated fans of that platform, because the hardcore fans of that console are the ones who are going to be going back to play the old games a full generation after they released. Look at the PS4, everyone complaining about lack of PS1 backwards compatibility are us people who already own the PS4. I doubt you'd ever find any significant number of prospective purchasers complaining about that. If brand new purchasers are buying the console in huge numbers because of BC though, that would indicate a problem with the current console more than anything. I see this as kind of symptomatic of the problem Nintendo is facing right now, that people are more interested in the old nostalgic games and items rather than what they are releasing here in 2016. In other words, when the new stuff you are making isn't really hitting with the fans, they retreat into the past to find the thing they used to find comfort in - kinda like comfort food, but comfort gaming.
 

kyser73

Member
All these people in here taking about how exclusives are going to garuntee Sony's dominance going forward seriously need to look at the software sales for this gen. The vast vast majority of the time it is third party SW that is driving HW sales not exclusive SW. And no a single trailer announcing an upcoming exclusive without a release date (TLoU Part II) is not going to drive any meaningful amount of sales this month either. Chances are high that they will indeed end up continuing to sell more going forward but that will not be because of first party or exclusive games. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news about the reality of SW sales but that's just how the cookie crumbles.

I expect better from you, Rex.
 

Fdkn

Member
So the 50million announcement really was because they lost NPD... lmao

Now we're back to they must be down YoY, let's see how that one goes too
 

anothertech

Member
All these people in here taking about how exclusives are going to garuntee Sony's dominance going forward seriously need to look at the software sales for this gen. The vast vast majority of the time it is third party SW that is driving HW sales not exclusive SW. And no a single trailer announcing an upcoming exclusive without a release date (TLoU Part II) is not going to drive any meaningful amount of sales this month either. Chances are high that they will indeed end up continuing to sell more going forward but that will not be because of first party or exclusive games. Sorry to be the bearer of the bad news about the reality of SW sales but that's just how the cookie crumbles.
Nah, no one thinks its cause of the exclusives.

It's cause you can get double the resolution, iq, and performance for the next year on a PS4 for all titles. Even 3rd party, which are the important ones like you say.
 

The God

Member
Outside of hardcore gamers like we here on Gaf, the general public does not even know TL2 even exist.

I think there is too much stock being put into games that are announced 2-3 or more years out on both sides. Sony is recently more into doing this and I think it is just a move for brownie points. It is going to be what 2 years soon of the famous big trio announcement of Last Guardian, Shenmue 3 and the FF Remake and all this time and only Last Guardian, which has had a 9+ year birthing process has made it out. Yeah, people went crazy and people acted like it was the 2nd coming, but in reality how much has it really impacted anything other than "reactions" at the time of the reveal of these three games?

Anyways, it will be nice to get actual numbers. I am just hoping that both Sony and MS have positive YOY growth, if sales are down YOY compared to last year that is not a great sign for the industry. Also wondering what the gap was in sales, I am going to assume it was a pretty close race which is a big win for everyone in the industry including us gamers if that is the case. YOY growth and attachment rates are important numbers as this will really show how strong the industry is. If MS/Sony is able to have growth in November/December, then we have the Switch in March, it will make the industry even healthier which is great for all of us.

You underestimate the "general public"
 

jaypah

Member
While not exactly the "bizzaro" scenario you are referring to, last gen PS3 started with virtually complete BC with the previous two gens, while the 360 kinda had BC with the OG Xbox.

I think most people back then were saying that while the BC on the original 60gb PS3 was nice, it wasn't really going to sell the console. Eventually the PS3 had no PS2 BC at all and sales didn't really suffer from it.

I meant more the conversations and discussions and yeah, a lot of people propped up the feature and a lot of people down played it. You can figure out which group liked it and which group didn't. As for real world use history did indeed show us that it doesn't stop a console from selling.
 
The briliance of psx is it renews the excitement and hype after the hype slows down after e3. Announcing new games, japanese ports, classic remasters before the holidays is smart. People are talking about playstation and almost forgetting xbox until microsoft announces something.

Come January the switch will have another reveal video, the switch will eat into xbox sales not ps4.

Usually people buy a nintendo console and a playstation or a xbox.
 

thelastword

Banned
Yeah, I seriously doubt that UHD will even come close to Blu-Ray sales even years down the track. The movement towards streaming and digital media is real and strong. Physical formats are evidently becoming more niche.

That said, selfishly I would love if my PS4 Pro played UHD discs. I would probably only buy a handful over the next several years, but it's sort of frustrating having a 4K TV without being able to showcase it to the fullest extent (4K streaming services suck in comparison, and true 4K files are way too big to download for me). As a business decision? I think it makes sense not to include playback.
I too think that digital media playback is the future. UHD media is great for quality, but I forsee that the lines of quality will blur there as well, with better codecs, better compression tech and faster internet. Soon, it really would not make much sense to pack all that data on a disc when it could be streamed at near equal quality. I look at what checkerboarding is doing for 4k, it may not be native but it looks pretty close. If better codecs and compression advances, and Netflix decides to improve the bandwidth and quality of their streams even further, I think the extra layer of fidelity people will miss in a UHD disc will be offset by the convenience of digital delivery where quality wise, it's not too far off..

But yes, I see your point on wanting the Disc Drive, but what I've realized is that I've had a bluray drive since the PS3, bought a couple of BD's to test, my fave movies btw, but I've hardly popped in any one of them to watch outside of testing. Most of the movies I watch I do so through DLNA and have no problem with the quality on there. So I still go back to streaming anyway.

On the bolded, though, I have to disagree. I think price is ultimately king and doubt Pro sales will come near Slim (but it will still sell well enough).
Fair enough, I guess we shall see how it pans out. I just find it hard to purchase a console for 300.00 when the other is much more powerful at 100.00 more. To me, if I was cash strapped, I'd just eat ramen for a week or two, but I see the appeal for the slim to hit the mass market and it should pull in some persons who were not in the console buying loop yet. I hope we get a breakdown at least after the holidays....

Haha.
That last comment especially.
Didn't know there was more to that story.....hmmmmm....
 
I meant more the conversations and discussions and yeah, a lot of people propped up the feature and a lot of people down played it. You can figure out which group liked it and which group didn't. As for real world use history did indeed show us that it doesn't stop a console from selling.

I dunno I think it'd be exactly the same. Most people would be saying it's a cool feature to be sure, but not really something that would affect purchase decisions. Some people who have the console complaining and wishing it had it, while people who had the competing console would gloat that they had it.
 

Unknown?

Member
Gotta love the description on his newest video.

"It only took the release of a PS4 Slim, PlayStation VR, PS4 Pro and deep, DEEP discounts on everything to squeak out a slim victory over Xbox One in November!"
Lol! PSVR isn't even in the equation. I need some of that salt for my pretzels.
 

Unknown?

Member
No MS had the same gameplan.

Its the same every holiday ,new bundles,discounts and models.
Also this is talking about PS4, PSVR doesn't inflate sells of PS4 so it's not even an equation to Sony outselling MS. That'd be like saying surface Pro helped the Xbox outsell Sony.
 
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