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[sullytao]

Care of NPD Group.
Wii 2.04M
DS 1.57M

Holy

 

[Fredescu]

Anything that sells millions isn't niche. By its very definition.

By it's very definition a niche market is just a group of people, to the exclusion of others, that a product is aimed at. Specific numbers aren't a factor.

 

[Azelover]

i was referring to incentives for the developers... (money)

That's really not a good strategy if companies keep doing that though, it can become a ping pong of sorts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-2L4PTV14A

BTW, this is really quite random but I found this really nice new Mario montage and I thought I'd share just for the heck of it, it's pretty awesome.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Its a shame third parties don't capitalize on Wii's ridiculous sales domination. I'm seriously shocked none of the PS2 GTA's have made their way to the Wii. Minimal work porting and you know each one will sell at least a million units.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

not the best, needs a price drop, still doing good for the year, lbp legs, at least 2 mentions of Killzone 2, 3/5 odds someone says Europe

This made me happy.

 

[Stoney Mason]

By it's very definition a niche market is just a group of people, to the exclusion of others, that a product is aimed at. Specific numbers aren't a factor.

Sports and guns carry a wide breath across this country. Because your friends may not play madden doesn't mean jack. 40 and 50 year old dudes buy Madden. It's a mega seller. Same with Wii Sports. It's a mass market title. If a so called niche market is selling millions you can guarantee that market ain't so niche.

 

[Deku]

2 Million?

Third party line up is a joke... how can this be? Wha? Bear is driving? Where am I?

you're Reading off the same script ; ;

 

[Proven]

None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.

There's gamer mainstream (if you have a console, you know about this game, you play it, you learn it, it's like a sport you don't play all that seriously)

Then there's actual mainstream (people that have never touched games know about them)

Nintendo has mostly niche and actual mainstream titles. It's why I'm an owner.

Microsoft has mostly gamer mainstream titles. That's why I've waited until this Christmas to get one, and only for a few specific titles to play, some of them with friends and gaffers over Live (Left 4 Dead addicted and can't afford a new laptop).

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Sony can put free gold bricks on the PS3, but it won't do shit when the hardware is still overpriced.

DROP THE GOD DAMNED PRICE, MORANS!

Killzone 2 will be the next game to fail to make any impact thanks to PS3 pricing.

Way to go Sony.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.

If you live in America, everyone knows what Madden is, even if they don't play. It's the only NFL game, so for half of the country, it's the only sim sports game that matters. It's got its own show on ESPN, it's used by sports analyst to demo plays in 3D, and it's advertised during the NFL draft.

It's ridiculous to call a game that sells 5 million plus every time out of the gate "niche", whether it's hardcore or casual or somewhere in-between.

- The discrepency between the #1 and #10 is pretty huge. I don't have numbers in front of me, but I recall even the lower part of the top 10 having very large software numbers in previous years.

You're right, the top 10 is considerably lighter than last year from top to bottom, but since software sales are up overall, I'd say it's healthier that the sales were spread out among more games.

1. 360 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Activision—1.57 million*
2. Wii Super Mario Galaxy, Nintendo—1.12 million
3. 360 Assassin’s Creed, Ubisoft—980,000*
4. PS2 Guitar Hero III, Activision—967,000*
5. Wii Play w/ Remote, Nintendo—564,000
6. 360 Mass Effect, Microsoft—473,000*
7. PS3 Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare, Activision—444,000
8. Wii Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, Activision—426,000
9. 360 Halo 3, Microsoft—387,000*
10. PS3 Assassin’s Creed—377,000*

Edit - And I by considerably, I mean about 30k

 

[Sydle]

Read the entire thread-- my favorite post was the one about LBP charting for 35/35 days and to wait for next month's NPD.

Like a few others in the thread, I look at the Wii numbers and think about what I'm missing. I suppose if I picked one up and got bored of it I could easily sell it.

I want to know how Banjo performed. I figured it was going to be a slow burn like all of Rare's recent games...

 

[Fredescu]

Sports and guns carry a wide breath across this country. Because your friends may not play madden doesn't mean jack. 40 and 50 year old dudes buy Madden. It's a mega seller. Same with Wii Sports. It's a mass market title.

I'm not going to spend much time arguing this because I don't care too much, but the audience that Nintendo has in mind with Wii Sports is every human that draws a breath. Madden and Gears targeted audience is a small niche of that.

Edit:

If you live in America, everyone knows what Madden is

Yep, only relevant in one country. As big as that country might be, it's still a segment of the market at the exclusion of others

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'm not going to spend much time arguing this because I don't care too much, but the audience that Nintendo has in mind with Wii Sports is every human that draws a breath. Madden and Gears targeted audience is a small niche of that.

I think you're confusing a targeted demographic with a niche market.

 

[Vyer]

None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.

:lol

Dude, you might have to consider that your point of view is ('people where I'm from') just a little more unique.

Madden and Gears are two of the biggest sellers there are. Crushing numbers. Those are mainstream games.

I'm not sure you know what definition of 'niche' most everyone else referring to.

EDIT:

I think you're confusing a targeted demographic with a niche market.

Or this.

 

[m00]

By it's very definition a niche market is just a group of people, to the exclusion of others, that a product is aimed at. Specific numbers aren't a factor.

Corollary: Wii is a fad, because it's sold in inconceivably high quantities for multiple years. Proof is left to the reader as an exercise.

 

[boiled goose]

i agree that wii sports and guitar hero are more popular to the average person than the other games... but it seemed you were arguing that that high quality games are niche, and that popular ones are not..

in number of units sold madden and gears are not that far below guitar hero. (all are multimillion sellers)

there are people that enjoy gears of war, GH, Okami, and yes even wii sports and wii fit.

I wish wii fit was better, not because i think its a non-game, but because i wish it had even more features.

The elitists in the game world should own all consoles and be able to make informed and fair criticisms of the games they play. (which is not the dude u were defending...)

None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.

 

[speculawyer]

Its a shame third parties don't capitalize on Wii's ridiculous sales domination. I'm seriously shocked none of the PS2 GTA's have made their way to the Wii. Minimal work porting and you know each one will sell at least a million units.

:lol Well, they are trying . . . it is not like they don't want to make money.

But for GTA, I think they'll port the old ones over for some easy money. But don't expect much more than that. Rockstar released Manhunt 2 and Bully on the Wii and neither sold well . . . nor has any 'M' rated game with the exception of the discounted Resident Evil 4. So don't expect much new IP.

 

[Fredescu]

There's gamer mainstream (if you have a console, you know about this game, you play it, you learn it, it's like a sport you don't play all that seriously)

Then there's actual mainstream (people that have never touched games know about them)

Nintendo has mostly niche and actual mainstream titles. It's why I'm an owner.

Microsoft has mostly gamer mainstream titles. That's why I've waited until this Christmas to get one, and only for a few specific titles to play, some of them with friends and gaffers over Live (Left 4 Dead addicted and can't afford a new laptop).

Yep, I pretty much agree with all of that.

 

[Fredescu]

i agree that wii sports and guitar hero are more popular to the average person than the other games... but it seemed you were arguing that that high quality games are niche, and that popular ones are not..

Nope, I'm not arguing that. Sorry about the confusion.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

Read the entire thread-- my favorite post was the one about LBP charting for 35/35 days and to wait for next month's NPD.

Like a few others in the thread, I look at the Wii numbers and think about what I'm missing. I suppose if I picked one up and got bored of it I could easily sell it.

The only way you'll be bored with Wii is if you get shitty games (there are plenty). I'd say the essential titles are as follows:

Mario Galaxy
Mario Kart Wii (online)
Smash Brother Brawl (online)
De Blob
Wii Sports
Excite Trucks
Metroid Prime 3
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
Tetris Party (WiiWare / online)
World of Goo (WiiWare)

Just my personal favs.

 

[Slurpy]

Mind-blowing Wii numbers- and I didnt think any Wii # could shock me anymore.

So Nintendo, howbout you start creating some games that require a fucking budget, since you're swimming in what must be oceans of cash. Just give me something to BUY, Jesus fuck. With those hardware sales, you could have had software titles that would have raped in sales this Christmas. What wasted potential.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Yep, only relevant in one country. As big as that country might be, it's still a segment of the market at the exclusion of others

This niche argument is ridiculous so I'll stop. Sales and success dictate niche. If you are arguing that the Wii has opened the market to a more casual consumer then I'm down. If you are arguing that's the only market however that can be truly mainstream I completely disagree. Especially when it's the platform that is the key. The individual software often gets a free ride on that basis. Mario Galaxy is mainstream. And so is Madden. Trauma Center isn't casual suddenly because its on the Wii.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm not going to spend much time arguing this because I don't care too much, but the audience that Nintendo has in mind with Wii Sports is every human that draws a breath. Madden and Gears targeted audience is a small niche of that.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

1) GEARS OF WAR 2* (360) 1.56 million

I think Microsoft's strategy of creating videogames targeted for the people that like to buy videogames is not bad strategy.

 

[Log4Girlz]

:lol Well, they are trying . . . it is not like they don't want to make money.

But for GTA, I think they'll port the old ones over for some easy money. But don't expect much more than that. Rockstar released Manhunt 2 and Bully on the Wii and neither sold well . . . nor has any 'M' rated game with the exception of the discounted Resident Evil 4. So don't expect much new IP.

Its like...why feed the people shit when they want steak?

 

[Maxwell House]

Someone at SONY needs to get fired! Terrible marketing, mispricing. I'll take the excuse of the yen being high but when you are this close of losing most of market share you have to take more chances.

Hopefully someone there has a strategy for 08.

* RPGs
* Marketing blue-ray/games effectively. Start an awareness campaign
* hardware redesign. Its big and clunky. You need a thin slick looking console!
* Bring BC back (hopefully PS2 is finally dead next year)
* Have killzone demos in every GS in town!
* lower price $50 before the storm starts (Killzone), do it early in the year when sales will not hurt you as much then do another $50 before Xmas when you introduce the new model.

How about March Madness?

 

[Gadfly]

He finally got the boot? I almost wish he was here for this. Almost.

I think he went too far and trolled Wii.

 

[boiled goose]

:lol Well, they are trying . . . it is not like they don't want to make money.

But for GTA, I think they'll port the old ones over for some easy money. But don't expect much more than that. Rockstar released Manhunt 2 and Bully on the Wii and neither sold well . . . nor has any 'M' rated game with the exception of the discounted Resident Evil 4. So don't expect much new IP.

Id like to see data comparing bully on 360 compared to wii (360 version much superior and launched to a larger install base at the time) and manhunt of ps2 compared to wii (much much larger install base) before you make such claims...

the quality M rated games on the wii are:
resident evil 4 : over a million
Resident evil UC : over a million
No more heros: sudas best selling game by far
COD WAW: obviously not HD numbers but we dont know what it will end up being
?
?
?

anything else Im missing? (maybe godfather, scarface....??)

 

[speculawyer]

Its like...why feed the people shit when they want steak?

Well . . . why waste expensive steak on people who willingly accept shit?

 

[Opiate]

Sure, but certainly not in story and setting, let me get that out of the way.

The people that play every shooter they can get their hands on can appreciate slight advances in mechanics and set pieces from game to game. People that have had one good experience with a shooter might see all the new shooters on the shelf and think, man these are all the same as Doom 2 or Half Life, or whatever, so whats the point.

People who watch foreign films generally do so because they have watched many many films and can appreciate the differences in styles by the various foreign schools and often crave difference. Others might watch a handful of films a year and why bother hunting around for a copy of Three Colours: Blue when Shrek 2 is out.

Please. I completed GoW2 in about 30 hours when combining normal/insane modes. I have defeated that game on the most challenging difficulty possible.

I've been playing Chess since I was 4 -- I remember my first game on a human sized Chess board -- and I can play the rest of my life and never really be a master.

Wii Play certainly isn't esoteric, but neither is Gears of War (or Metal Gear or God of War) by the standards you've set. It's like a 10 year old telling an 8 year old to grow up. Actually, I have a real life example: I saw a young boy playing Yu-Gi-Oh mocking the even littler children playing Pokemon. That' essentially how I feel about your example -- they're both childishly insipid, so why argue that one is a slightly deeper shade of brown?

And you're just being silly if you think Gears of War would sell as well if it didn't feature Space Marines and Chainsaws and Aliens. Despite the vast number of games that have done well on the 360, virtually all star grizzled, macho men. I have no question that part of Mirror Edge's problem was its image, and it wasn't even significant departure from this formula: there were still guns and shooting and the protagonist was still a tatooed badass, she just happened to be a girl. Furthermore, I can count on one the number of cutesy games that have hit it big on 360.

 

[Sydle]

The only way you'll be bored with Wii is if you get shitty games (there are plenty). I'd say the essential titles are as follows:

Mario Galaxy
Mario Kart Wii (online)
Smash Brother Brawl (online)
De Blob
Wii Sports
Excite Trucks
Metroid Prime 3
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
Tetris Party (WiiWare / online)
World of Goo (WiiWare)

Just my personal favs.

I'll probably get one for Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy to start out. I'm always reminded about MP3 since I work in the same building complex as Retro and I think about what's going on in there as I drive by it every day. I've been told MP3 is the best in the series.

 

[YoungHav]

Sony can put free gold bricks on the PS3, but it won't do shit when the hardware is still overpriced.

DROP THE GOD DAMNED PRICE, MORANS!

Killzone 2 will be the next game to fail to make any impact thanks to PS3 pricing.

Way to go Sony.

Amen. They would be unforgivably stupid to keep the current price while KZ2 drops.

 

[Htown]

Its a shame third parties don't capitalize on Wii's ridiculous sales domination.

I'm thinkin' Activision is pretty happy.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

...since I work in the same building complex as Retro

Ha, you work off 360? I work there, too! How long have you been in Austin?

 

[Log4Girlz]

Well . . . why waste expensive steak on people who willingly accept shit?

You are trying to attract the steak eating crowd, its a niche market worth pursuing.

 

[speculawyer]

the quality M rated games on the wii are:
resident evil 4 : over a million
Resident evil UC : over a million
No more heros: sudas best selling game by far
COD WAW: obviously not HD numbers but we dont know what it will end up being
?
?

So the absolutely best selling game 'M'-rated game on the biggest platform has merely sold more than a million? (And it was $29.99 too!)

If you can't read the tea leaves there then I don't know what to say.

Actually, I'm sure more than just those have sold well, but the point remains.

 

[mysticstylez]

Amen. They would be unforgivably stupid to keep the current price while KZ2 drops.

They can't afford to drop the price.

 

[YYZ]

I think Sony's missing out on the large boat of people buying HDTVs+BD players+Wall-E/TDK on BD. The BD player should be the PS3, but it costs way more than a lot of other ones (saw a Sony one at Costco for $270, not sure if it has BD-Live).

Should have dropped $100 and not come out with this retarded 160GB SKU which is actually taking two steps back.

They can't afford to drop the price.

I don't think they can afford to sell this pathetic number of units during "the golden quarter".

 

[SapientWolf]

They can't afford to drop the price.

They can't afford not to.

 

[SIP YEK NOD]

Its like...why feed the people shit when they want steak?

why sell em a 20 dollar steak when they're happy paying 20 bucks for a burger.

 

[boiled goose]

I'll probably get one for Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy to start out. I'm always reminded about MP3 since I work in the same building complex as Retro and I think about what's going on in there as I drive by it every day. I've been told MP3 is the best in the series.

Prime 1 is still the best IMO but 3 really nails the controls and is a ton of fun. if you havent played any of the other prime games 3 is a great place to start as it is more action oriented and has better pacing.

(you should try to spy on retro, im sure everyone here would like to know what the hell they are working on.... ;P)

 

[speculawyer]

You are trying to attract the steak eating crowd, its a niche market worth pursuing.

Much of that crowd also has a bigger plate and they want the steak on that bigger plate.

But that said, the Wii shouldn't be ignored on the M-rated titles. There are certainly those with 1 plate.

 

[Log4Girlz]

So the absolutely best selling game 'M'-rated game on the biggest platform has merely sold more than a million? (And it was $29.99 too!)

If you can't read the tea leaves there then I don't know what to say.

Actually, I'm sure more than just those have sold well, but the point remains.

Yeah but those projects cost like, 5 bucks top to make. Resident Evil 4 is like the same fucking game from...the same fucking system lol. (see, what I did there was equate teh Wii, to the Gamecube...yes...any humor that this could have possibly contained has been ruined, but its ok).

 

[Sydle]

Ha, you work off 360? I work there, too! How long have you been in Austin?

You're in Austin, huh? I suspect you live near by then...can I just borrow your Wii?

It's on Kramer right off of Braker. My company is moving to a new building on 360 in the next few months though-- gonna do bad things for my work commute (it's currently about 5 minutes). I've lived in Austin since May this year.

 

[pgtl_10]

A lot of people are wondering why Wii is selling so well considering it has no major holiday release. Once a console is considered cool and the product to have then it doesn't matter if the product has any quality. Ipod and Iphone may not be the best products of their type of their electronics but consumers consider them the product you have to buy. Nintendo Wii follows a similar philosophy. People must get a Wii because it is the system that everyone should own. Games are what sell consoles is a myth perpetrated by gamers. Consoles that are marketed effectively and considered the hot item always win. Support for the system usually follows afterwards.

BTW How much did Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of a New Day sell?

 

[tabsina]

Sure, but certainly not in story and setting, let me get that out of the way.

The people that play every shooter they can get their hands on can appreciate slight advances in mechanics and set pieces from game to game. People that have had one good experience with a shooter might see all the new shooters on the shelf and think, man these are all the same as Doom 2 or Half Life, or whatever, so whats the point.

People who watch foreign films generally do so because they have watched many many films and can appreciate the differences in styles by the various foreign schools and often crave difference. Others might watch a handful of films a year and why bother hunting around for a copy of Three Colours: Blue when Shrek 2 is out.

Gears of War is a particularly disgustingly popular foreign film with a huge budget though. Hey, as Neil once said, not all analogies bear close examination. The point is, a lot of people turn their noses up and people that buy every shooter (or jrpg or racer etc) they can get their hands on. It's a niche audience. The Wii Play/Mario Kart etc audience is the new mainstream.

Would I be out of line to say that Mario Kart changes things around from iteration to iteration too, that only people who play every game in the series an excessive amount would notice such changes, etc?

 

[AirBrian]

LTTP, but 2 million? As in 2,000,000? Two. Million. Holy fucking crap.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I'll probably get one for Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy to start out. I'm always reminded about MP3 since I work in the same building complex as Retro and I think about what's going on in there as I drive by it every day. I've been told MP3 is the best in the series.

Dude get in there and Sneak that Shit!

 

[boiled goose]

So the absolutely best selling game 'M'-rated game on the biggest platform has merely sold more than a million? (And it was $29.99 too!)

If you can't read the tea leaves there then I don't know what to say.

Actually, I'm sure more than just those have sold well, but the point remains.

the best selling M rated game was a port from a two year old game that you can play on the freaking system already!!!!!!

dont you see the problem!!! there has not been a single, high-hyped, quality, high budget M rated original IP on the wii!!!!!!!

 

[justchris]

For the record, I think the 360 could have done a million or more if they'd had even more stock of the Arcade SKU available during this period. While the Core SKU was pretty stupid at launch, once you start to hit mass market price it becomes the primary seller. Hopefully Microsoft learns form this with the Xbox 720 and releases a single Pro-SKU at launch to focus manufacturing, then introduces a lower cost Arcade or Core SKU after their first major price drop.

For those asking:

The highest console sales in a month is Dec 2002 when the PS2 sold 2.7 million.
The highest November sales were PS2's Nov 2002 total of 1.3 million.

PS2's best November was 2002 at 1.3 million, it's best December was also 2002 at 2.7 million.

Ah, I was wrong in my earlier post. Thanks. Let's assume Nintendo's goal is to slaughter all PS2 records, just to be vindictive, so predict 3m for Wii in December

What are all these Wii owners going to do when they see the footage for all these awesome PS3 games during the VGAs on Sunday?

:lol :lol :lol -- oh, wait, was that serious? Do even PS3 owners watch the Spike VGAs? I wasn't aware anyone even watched that.

im really glad, and pleasantly surprised, that the game industry did better in sales than last november with the way the economy is affecting consumers. i wish this could somehow cause a lot of these layoffs to be a little more restrained in light of the numbers. doubtful though.

The problem hasn't entirely been sales, though, it's been costs. Revenues are going up or holding steady, but costs are increasing faster, so profits go down.

what the fuck is anita frazer talking about ps3 yoy growth?

800k yoy yearlong is not particularly impressive. wow, you grew 70k per month! amazing!

Too bad we can't talk Frazer into getting a gaf account like Pachter. She could explain herself.

PS3 was never really alive.

has anyone looked at videos of people's composition on this game? There's so much room for creativity. and i know creativity is something that's relative to the person so it's hard to judge a game which is essentially more of an "instrument" than a game since its enjoyment is directly relative to the user level of creativity. Wii Music is more akin to the KORG DS-10 than any actual game.

A while back, Nintendo released a product called Electroplankton. I bought that software, and played it for maybe 2 weeks. I feel Wii Music is much the same thing. For the right type of person, it can be an incredible tool and lots of fun. Not my thing though.

 

[grandjedi6]

I don't think they can afford to sell this pathetic number of units during "the golden quarter".

They can't afford not to.

Cutting the price will only lose Sony more money.