By it's very definition a niche market is just a group of people, to the exclusion of others, that a product is aimed at. Specific numbers aren't a factor.Stoney Mason said:Anything that sells millions isn't niche. By its very definition.
amtentori said:i was referring to incentives for the developers... (money)
Mindlog said:not the best, needs a price drop, still doing good for the year, lbp legs, at least 2 mentions of Killzone 2, 3/5 odds someone says Europe
Fredescu said:By it's very definition a niche market is just a group of people, to the exclusion of others, that a product is aimed at. Specific numbers aren't a factor.
Epcott said:2 Million?
Third party line up is a joke... how can this be? Wha? Bear is driving? Where am I?
Fredescu said:None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.
Fredescu said:None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.
- The discrepency between the #1 and #10 is pretty huge. I don't have numbers in front of me, but I recall even the lower part of the top 10 having very large software numbers in previous years.
NPD November 2007 results said:1. 360 Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, Activision1.57 million*
2. Wii Super Mario Galaxy, Nintendo1.12 million
3. 360 Assassins Creed, Ubisoft980,000*
4. PS2 Guitar Hero III, Activision967,000*
5. Wii Play w/ Remote, Nintendo564,000
6. 360 Mass Effect, Microsoft473,000*
7. PS3 Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare, Activision444,000
8. Wii Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock, Activision426,000
9. 360 Halo 3, Microsoft387,000*
10. PS3 Assassins Creed377,000*
I'm not going to spend much time arguing this because I don't care too much, but the audience that Nintendo has in mind with Wii Sports is every human that draws a breath. Madden and Gears targeted audience is a small niche of that.Stoney Mason said:Sports and guns carry a wide breath across this country. Because your friends may not play madden doesn't mean jack. 40 and 50 year old dudes buy Madden. It's a mega seller. Same with Wii Sports. It's a mass market title.
Yep, only relevant in one country. As big as that country might be, it's still a segment of the market at the exclusion of othersSho_Nuff said:If you live in America, everyone knows what Madden is
Fredescu said:I'm not going to spend much time arguing this because I don't care too much, but the audience that Nintendo has in mind with Wii Sports is every human that draws a breath. Madden and Gears targeted audience is a small niche of that.
Fredescu said:None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.
Log4Girlz said:I think you're confusing a targeted demographic with a niche market.
Corollary: Wii is a fad, because it's sold in inconceivably high quantities for multiple years. Proof is left to the reader as an exercise.Fredescu said:By it's very definition a niche market is just a group of people, to the exclusion of others, that a product is aimed at. Specific numbers aren't a factor.
Fredescu said:None of those might be niche on GAF. In terms of the broader market, Madden and Gears are certainly aimed at a niche. No one cares about Madden where I'm from. Talk about Gears of War in polite company and no one will know what the fuck. Wii Sports and Guitar Hero on the other hand are becoming titles everyone knows even if they don't play games at all.
:lol Well, they are trying . . . it is not like they don't want to make money.Log4Girlz said:Its a shame third parties don't capitalize on Wii's ridiculous sales domination. I'm seriously shocked none of the PS2 GTA's have made their way to the Wii. Minimal work porting and you know each one will sell at least a million units.
Yep, I pretty much agree with all of that.Proven said:There's gamer mainstream (if you have a console, you know about this game, you play it, you learn it, it's like a sport you don't play all that seriously)
Then there's actual mainstream (people that have never touched games know about them)
Nintendo has mostly niche and actual mainstream titles. It's why I'm an owner.
Microsoft has mostly gamer mainstream titles. That's why I've waited until this Christmas to get one, and only for a few specific titles to play, some of them with friends and gaffers over Live (Left 4 Dead addicted and can't afford a new laptop).
Nope, I'm not arguing that. Sorry about the confusion.amtentori said:i agree that wii sports and guitar hero are more popular to the average person than the other games... but it seemed you were arguing that that high quality games are niche, and that popular ones are not..
The only way you'll be bored with Wii is if you get shitty games (there are plenty). I'd say the essential titles are as follows:Paco said:Read the entire thread-- my favorite post was the one about LBP charting for 35/35 days and to wait for next month's NPD.
Like a few others in the thread, I look at the Wii numbers and think about what I'm missing. I suppose if I picked one up and got bored of it I could easily sell it.
Fredescu said:Yep, only relevant in one country. As big as that country might be, it's still a segment of the market at the exclusion of others
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lolFredescu said:I'm not going to spend much time arguing this because I don't care too much, but the audience that Nintendo has in mind with Wii Sports is every human that draws a breath. Madden and Gears targeted audience is a small niche of that.
The very first post in the thread! said:1) GEARS OF WAR 2* (360) 1.56 million
speculawyer said::lol Well, they are trying . . . it is not like they don't want to make money.
But for GTA, I think they'll port the old ones over for some easy money. But don't expect much more than that. Rockstar released Manhunt 2 and Bully on the Wii and neither sold well . . . nor has any 'M' rated game with the exception of the discounted Resident Evil 4. So don't expect much new IP.
How about March Madness?PistolGrip said:Someone at SONY needs to get fired! Terrible marketing, mispricing. I'll take the excuse of the yen being high but when you are this close of losing most of market share you have to take more chances.
Hopefully someone there has a strategy for 08.
* RPGs
* Marketing blue-ray/games effectively. Start an awareness campaign
* hardware redesign. Its big and clunky. You need a thin slick looking console!
* Bring BC back (hopefully PS2 is finally dead next year)
* Have killzone demos in every GS in town!
* lower price $50 before the storm starts (Killzone), do it early in the year when sales will not hurt you as much then do another $50 before Xmas when you introduce the new model.
I think he went too far and trolled Wii.GhaleonEB said:He finally got the boot? I almost wish he was here for this. Almost.
speculawyer said::lol Well, they are trying . . . it is not like they don't want to make money.
But for GTA, I think they'll port the old ones over for some easy money. But don't expect much more than that. Rockstar released Manhunt 2 and Bully on the Wii and neither sold well . . . nor has any 'M' rated game with the exception of the discounted Resident Evil 4. So don't expect much new IP.
Log4Girlz said:Its like...why feed the people shit when they want steak?
Fredescu said:Sure, but certainly not in story and setting, let me get that out of the way.
The people that play every shooter they can get their hands on can appreciate slight advances in mechanics and set pieces from game to game. People that have had one good experience with a shooter might see all the new shooters on the shelf and think, man these are all the same as Doom 2 or Half Life, or whatever, so whats the point.
People who watch foreign films generally do so because they have watched many many films and can appreciate the differences in styles by the various foreign schools and often crave difference. Others might watch a handful of films a year and why bother hunting around for a copy of Three Colours: Blue when Shrek 2 is out.
HAL_Laboratory said:The only way you'll be bored with Wii is if you get shitty games (there are plenty). I'd say the essential titles are as follows:
Mario Galaxy
Mario Kart Wii (online)
Smash Brother Brawl (online)
De Blob
Wii Sports
Excite Trucks
Metroid Prime 3
No More Heroes
Boom Blox
Tetris Party (WiiWare / online)
World of Goo (WiiWare)
Just my personal favs.
Amen. They would be unforgivably stupid to keep the current price while KZ2 drops.The Take Out Bandit said:Sony can put free gold bricks on the PS3, but it won't do shit when the hardware is still overpriced.
DROP THE GOD DAMNED PRICE, MORANS!
Killzone 2 will be the next game to fail to make any impact thanks to PS3 pricing.
Way to go Sony.
I'm thinkin' Activision is pretty happy.Log4Girlz said:Its a shame third parties don't capitalize on Wii's ridiculous sales domination.
Paco said:...since I work in the same building complex as Retro
speculawyer said:Well . . . why waste expensive steak on people who willingly accept shit?
So the absolutely best selling game 'M'-rated game on the biggest platform has merely sold more than a million? (And it was $29.99 too!)amtentori said:the quality M rated games on the wii are:
resident evil 4 : over a million
Resident evil UC : over a million
No more heros: sudas best selling game by far
COD WAW: obviously not HD numbers but we dont know what it will end up being
?
?
YoungHav said:Amen. They would be unforgivably stupid to keep the current price while KZ2 drops.
I don't think they can afford to sell this pathetic number of units during "the golden quarter".mysticstylez said:They can't afford to drop the price.
They can't afford not to.mysticstylez said:They can't afford to drop the price.
Log4Girlz said:Its like...why feed the people shit when they want steak?
Paco said:I'll probably get one for Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy to start out. I'm always reminded about MP3 since I work in the same building complex as Retro and I think about what's going on in there as I drive by it every day. I've been told MP3 is the best in the series.
Much of that crowd also has a bigger plate and they want the steak on that bigger plate.Log4Girlz said:You are trying to attract the steak eating crowd, its a niche market worth pursuing.
speculawyer said:So the absolutely best selling game 'M'-rated game on the biggest platform has merely sold more than a million? (And it was $29.99 too!)
If you can't read the tea leaves there then I don't know what to say.
Actually, I'm sure more than just those have sold well, but the point remains.
HAL_Laboratory said:Ha, you work off 360? I work there, too! How long have you been in Austin?
Fredescu said:Sure, but certainly not in story and setting, let me get that out of the way.
The people that play every shooter they can get their hands on can appreciate slight advances in mechanics and set pieces from game to game. People that have had one good experience with a shooter might see all the new shooters on the shelf and think, man these are all the same as Doom 2 or Half Life, or whatever, so whats the point.
People who watch foreign films generally do so because they have watched many many films and can appreciate the differences in styles by the various foreign schools and often crave difference. Others might watch a handful of films a year and why bother hunting around for a copy of Three Colours: Blue when Shrek 2 is out.
Gears of War is a particularly disgustingly popular foreign film with a huge budget though. Hey, as Neil once said, not all analogies bear close examination. The point is, a lot of people turn their noses up and people that buy every shooter (or jrpg or racer etc) they can get their hands on. It's a niche audience. The Wii Play/Mario Kart etc audience is the new mainstream.
Paco said:I'll probably get one for Mario Kart, Metroid Prime 3 and Mario Galaxy to start out. I'm always reminded about MP3 since I work in the same building complex as Retro and I think about what's going on in there as I drive by it every day. I've been told MP3 is the best in the series.
speculawyer said:So the absolutely best selling game 'M'-rated game on the biggest platform has merely sold more than a million? (And it was $29.99 too!)
If you can't read the tea leaves there then I don't know what to say.
Actually, I'm sure more than just those have sold well, but the point remains.
1cesc said:For those asking:
The highest console sales in a month is Dec 2002 when the PS2 sold 2.7 million.
The highest November sales were PS2's Nov 2002 total of 1.3 million.
TJ Spyke said:PS2's best November was 2002 at 1.3 million, it's best December was also 2002 at 2.7 million.
polyh3dron said:What are all these Wii owners going to do when they see the footage for all these awesome PS3 games during the VGAs on Sunday?
CommancheRaisinToast said:im really glad, and pleasantly surprised, that the game industry did better in sales than last november with the way the economy is affecting consumers. i wish this could somehow cause a lot of these layoffs to be a little more restrained in light of the numbers. doubtful though.
Stumpokapow said:what the fuck is anita frazer talking about ps3 yoy growth?
800k yoy yearlong is not particularly impressive. wow, you grew 70k per month! amazing!
Anihawk said:PS3 was never really alive.
Rocket Punch said:has anyone looked at videos of people's composition on this game? There's so much room for creativity. and i know creativity is something that's relative to the person so it's hard to judge a game which is essentially more of an "instrument" than a game since its enjoyment is directly relative to the user level of creativity. Wii Music is more akin to the KORG DS-10 than any actual game.
YYZ said:I don't think they can afford to sell this pathetic number of units during "the golden quarter".
Cutting the price will only lose Sony more money.SapientWolf said:They can't afford not to.