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[The Take Out Bandit]

They can't afford to drop the price.

Not our problem.

Nobody here told Sony to use the PS3 as the trojan horse for their HD format war. Nobody I know that wants a PS3 gives a shit about BRD, or even owns an HDTV yet.

And on top of it Sony is losing key exclusives like Tekken and Final Fantasy to Microsoft.

Really, barring RRoD lolz, there's no reason not to get an Xbox over a PS3 these days.

 

[SapientWolf]

why sell em a 20 dollar steak when they're happy paying 20 bucks for a burger.

The funny thing about the analogy is that hamburger used to be thought of as a cheap, poor quality meat and now, pound for pound, it is almost as pricey as steak and a lot more popular.

 

[speculawyer]

Sony can put free gold bricks on the PS3, but it won't do shit when the hardware is still overpriced.

DROP THE GOD DAMNED PRICE, MORANS!

Sony is stuck here . . . they can't drop the price much because:
1) It is a really expensive sophisticated console (Cell chip, Nvidia GPU, hdd in every unit, wi-fi in every unit, Blu-Ray in every unit, etc.)
2) If they lower the price real low, lots of people that only want to watch Blu-Ray discs will buy it . . . and Sony won't make back their console subsidy on people that only buy blu-rays (or worse just rent Blu-rays from netflix).

So they are really in a tough spot.

 

[MidiSurf]

Wii Music > LBP ! I called it... No i didn't But I was going to

And 2 million Wiis ? Holy crapper ! I was only expecting 1.7 million Wiis, I guess someone has been stockpiling consoles.

 

[Sydle]

Prime 1 is still the best IMO but 3 really nails the controls and is a ton of fun. if you havent played any of the other prime games 3 is a great place to start as it is more action oriented and has better pacing.

(you should try to spy on retro, im sure everyone here would like to know what the hell they are working on.... ;P)

I thoroughly enjoyed the original Prime, but couldn't get into Echoes.

LOL, sometimes I walk past their office on the way to a sandwich shop near by hoping I'll run into one of their employees. It's a grand plan to make a friend and get the infos. I have it all written down on a napkin somewhere...

 

[Fredescu]

This niche argument is ridiculous so I'll stop.

It is a bit, but it's a fun excercise nonetheless.

Sales and success dictate niche.

Perhaps. I think the thing Nintendo did was say "fuck demographics, we're going for everyone." The audience that Gears and Madden get, no matter how successful they've been, are really dwarfed by that. There is a certain pre-requistite you need to get either game. Wii Sports does not have that same limitation.

If you are arguing that's the only market however that can be truly mainstream I completely disagree.

No, relatively speaking you could say certain games are mainstream among certain segments. Mirror's Edge is probably mainstream among GAF, but not among gamers. Madden is mainstream in America, but not around the world. Whether you want to call GAF or America niches or market segments or demographics, I don't mind. Most people probably equate niche with very small which it doesn't necessarily mean.

 

[Opiate]

I think Sony's missing out on the large boat of people buying HDTVs+BD players+Wall-E/TDK on BD. The BD player should be the PS3, but it costs way more than a lot of other ones (saw a Sony one at Costco for $270, not sure if it has BD-Live).

Should have dropped $100 and not come out with this retarded 160GB SKU which is actually taking two steps back.


I don't think they can afford to sell this pathetic number of units during "the golden quarter".

They can't. They cannot. I'm sorry to be so emphatic, but I see people in nearly every sales thread suggesting this, and it's frustrating to see it pop up repeatedly when it clearly doesn't consider financial concerns.

It is simply not financially possible. They've already lost 3.3 billion dollars in the gaming division over the last 3 years, and are almost assuredly going to lose some more this quarter.

All of the money has been spent. It's gone. There is no more. The PS3 has to stand on its own two feet now, and any price cuts or other things that cost money won't happen unless and until the system can make some money. Since Sony lost 400 million last quarter and is likely to lose more this one, that hasn't happened yet.

 

[HAL_Laboratory]

You're in Austin, huh? I suspect you live near by then...can I just borrow your Wii?

It's on Kramer right off of Braker. My company is moving to a new building on 360 in the next few months though-- gonna do bad things for my work commute (it's currently about 5 minutes). I've lived in Austin since May this year.

Cool, I live off 38 1/2 street. I'd let you borrow my Wii but honestly I play it all the time. :lol But you're welcome to come over sometime. Just send a PM or whatever.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Not our problem.

Nobody here told Sony to use the PS3 as the trojan horse for their HD format war. Nobody I know that wants a PS3 gives a shit about BRD, or even owns an HDTV yet.

And on top of it Sony is losing key exclusives like Tekken and Final Fantasy to Microsoft.

Really, barring RRoD lolz, there's no reason not to get an Xbox over a PS3 these days.

By that thought, there never really was, (unless you wanted a cheaper BRD player.)

 

[Xisiqomelir]

How many months in a row is this now where total Wii software > total 360 or PS3 software?

 

[Log4Girlz]

They can't. They cannot. I'm sorry to be so emphatic, but I see people in nearly every sales thread suggesting this, and it's frustrating to see it pop up repeatedly when it clearly doesn't consider financial concerns.

It is simply not financially possible. They've already lost 3.3 billion dollars in the gaming division over the last 3 years, and are almost assuredly going to lose some more this quarter.

All of the money has been spent. It's gone. There is no more. The PS3 has to stand on its own two feet now, and any price cuts or other things that cost money won't happen unless and until the system can make some money. Since Sony lost 400 million last quarter and is likely to lose more this one, that hasn't happened yet.

Besides, they are doing reasonably well in Europe. The price cuts will come when component costs come down for them. They made a massive mistake this generation and will not repeat it next. I would love to see their BOM on the ps3 as it stands now (bill of materials) and how much they're paying for each part.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Cutting the price will only lose Sony more money.

Agreed although I think the counter argument is you need a jumpstart to the market somehow because slowly dying on the vine isn't an attractive option either.

 

[thestopsign]

Gamecube Novembers
2002: 468,000
2003: 754,000
2004: 350,000
2005: 278,284
2006: 70,000

So next year we'll see even worse PS3 sales, given the pattern of the previous 3rd place console? I feel like this is apples and oranges though..

PS2 can't eat into PS3 software sales if the PS3 isn't even fucking selling, which is why I'm amazed at their rationale: many people won't buy the newer HDDs because they don't have BC on them. Come on Sony, put BC back on the HDDs and let us play our old PS2 games and new PS3 software. Get the hardware selling.

2003 is technically the Gamecube's third November, not 2004, which throws your post off a bit. 2003 was the Gamecube's best year by far, so it's not a good comparison with the PS3. Next year should be a better year, hardware sales-wise for the PS3 with the price drop, which is really the only factor as of now, holding back Sony. It's a really delicate situation they have on their hands between the PS2, PSP, and PS3.


*Side Rant* I'm starting to think that the PSP was a mild mistake on their part. Sure it has done well for itself in Japan, but they picked a fight with the incumbent candidate that people have been sufficiently happy with for the last few decades, and lost. The demographic that they were aiming for, just wasn't/isn't there. Cellphones have become so advanced, that most people have a cellphone that plays music and games, takes pictures, and lets them communicate with their friends with fast new interfaces. While the DS takes up valuable developer support and time. It's a double-whammy, that really has hurt the PSP. Think about it, what was the one thing that people wanted a PSP for back in 2004? It was to have everything from internet, games, music, and videos in one device, that could (hopefully) fit in your pocket, instead of taking multiple devices. Ultimately, they've have failed at this. In the end, from what I've witnessed as a teenager, it hasn't hit that "hip" teen crowd as they were hoping for. The younger crowd of 10-13 year old's that are too embarrassed to have a "kiddy" DS, and don't really care about the quality of the game as long as it is sports, racing, or violent have suddenly become their main market, if not indirectly. Could have Sony avoided all of this? Maybe.

The main reason why I think it has come down to the situation it is in is simple. Marketing. Sony's early efforts to market the PSP often showed the device as a multimedia player, and made no mention of games. This was a big mistake. The extra features distracted them, and ultimately failed as a bloated and mostly unnecessary format. I think they probably should have gone with digital distribution right from the start.

This is in sharp contrast to Nintendo's approach with the DS. With the kick in the pants they needed from competition, they came out with a clear and focused agenda right from the get go. They knew exactly what they had to do to win against superior technology. Their marketing hit all the right spots, from the casual with the Touch Generation Games, to the more appealing games such as Mario Kart DS and Metroid Prime Hunters. Now I won't go into to detail about their strategy, as I know you guys have all read that a few hundred times already today by looking at the NPD sales. If Sony came out right away, and said "Here's your Gran Turismo, here's your Grand Theft Auto, here's your Final Fantasy, and GUESS WHAT, they're portable," they would definitely be in a different spot right now.

This sort of brings me to my final point. Sony is fucking obtuse. How the fuck could they make the same mistake AGAIN with the PS3? An over-priced multimedia center... hmmm that sounds familiar. Oh wait, it has almost the exact same flaws as the PSP (Ok, there is a decent games selection on the PS3, I'll give them that). Personally, I don't see why I need another multimedia center in my house. One $1200 computer will serve the purpose just as well, if not much better. If the PSP was a mild mistake, then I would say so far, the PS3 has been a huge mistake. We've seen the effects across all of Sony, with the job cuts and finance cuts all around the board (I know this isn't entirely the Games Division's fault). The one redeeming grace that comes out of the PS3 for Sony right now is the fact that Blu-Ray actually won the format war, and partially because of the PS3. Even that hasn't seen dividends yet. Home and the Avatar system are both a kind of "me too" type reaction to a boat they have already missed. The non-universal online play (I'm not completely up to date on this) has been a pain in the ass for both us as gamers, and for companies developing on it. Are they aiming for the casual? Hardcore? Who knows. Sony's main problem these past few years has been focus, both Microsoft and Nintendo have clear directions they are trying to head, but Sony seems to be holding their map upside down, and just can't seem to correct it. */Side Rant*

Just some thoughts of the top of my head about Sony's current position. :lol Not sure if this is going to be well received or not.

 

[Link]

i see speculawyer turned his record player on again.

 

[Fredescu]

Please. I completed GoW2 in about 30 hours when combining normal/insane modes. I have defeated that game on the most challenging difficulty possible.

I've been playing Chess since I was 4 -- I remember my first game on a human sized Chess board -- and I can play the rest of my life and never really be a master.

I don't think I tried to equate the challenge... did I? Say someone changed the rules to chess every year, just slightly, if that were even possible. Someone who loved it would play every iteration. Others might just play it a few times and be done with it. Some people appreciate the small differences, others need a revolution.

 

[Log4Girlz]

2003 is technically the Gamecube's third November, not 2004, which throws your post off a bit. 2003 was the Gamecube's best year by far, so it's not a good comparison with the PS3. Next year should be a better year, hardware sales-wise for the PS3 with the price drop, which is really the only factor as of now, holding back Sony. It's a really delicate situation they have on their hands between the PS2, PSP, and PS3.


*Side Rant* I'm starting to think that the PSP was a mild mistake on their part. Sure it has done well for itself in Japan, but they picked a fight with the incumbent candidate that people have been sufficiently happy with for the last few decades, and lost. The demographic that they were aiming for, just wasn't/isn't there. Cellphones have become so advanced, that most people have a cellphone that plays music and games, takes pictures, and lets them communicate with their friends with fast new interfaces. While the DS takes up valuable developer support and time. It's a double-whammy, that really has hurt the PSP. Think about it, what was the one thing that people wanted a PSP for back in 2004? It was to have everything from internet, games, music, and videos in one device, that could (hopefully) fit in your pocket, instead of taking multiple devices. Ultimately, they've have failed at this. In the end, from what I've witnessed as a teenager, it hasn't hit that "hip" teen crowd as they were hoping for. The younger crowd of 10-13 year old's that are too embarrassed to have a "kiddy" DS, and don't really care about the quality of the game as long as it is sports, racing, or violent have suddenly become their main market, if not indirectly. Could have Sony avoided all of this? Maybe.

The main reason why I think it has come down to the situation it is in is simple. Marketing. Sony's early efforts to market the PSP often showed the device as a multimedia player, and made no mention of games. This was a big mistake. The extra features distracted them, and ultimately failed as a bloated and mostly unnecessary format. I think they probably should have gone with digital distribution right from the start.

This is in sharp contrast to Nintendo's approach with the DS. With the kick in the pants they needed from competition, they came out with a clear and focused agenda right from the get go. They knew exactly what they had to do to win against superior technology. Their marketing hit all the right spots, from the casual with the Touch Generation Games, to the more appealing games such as Mario Kart DS and Metroid Prime Hunters. Now I won't go into to detail about their strategy, as I know you guys have all read that a few hundred times already today by looking at the NPD sales. If Sony came out right away, and said "Here's your Gran Turismo, here's your Grand Theft Auto, here's your Final Fantasy, and GUESS WHAT, they're portable," they would definitely be in a different spot right now.

This sort of brings me to my final point. Sony is fucking obtuse. How the fuck could they make the same mistake AGAIN with the PS3? An over-priced multimedia center... hmmm that sounds familiar. Oh wait, it has almost the exact same flaws as the PSP (Ok, there is a decent games selection on the PS3, I'll give them that). Personally, I don't see why I need another multimedia center in my house. One $1200 computer will serve the purpose just as well, if not much better. If the PSP was a mild mistake, then I would say so far, the PS3 has been a huge mistake. We've seen the effects across all of Sony, with the job cuts and finance cuts all around the board (I know this isn't entirely the Games Division's fault). The one redeeming grace that comes out of the PS3 for Sony right now is the fact that Blu-Ray actually won the format war, and partially because of the PS3. Even that hasn't seen dividends yet. Home and the Avatar system are both a kind of "me too" type reaction to a boat they have already missed. The non-universal online play (I'm not completely up to date on this) has been a pain in the ass for both us as gamers, and for companies developing on it. Are they aiming for the casual? Hardcore? Who knows. Sony's main problem these past few years has been focus, both Microsoft and Nintendo have clear directions they are trying to head, but Sony seems to be holding their map upside down, and just can't seem to correct it. */Side Rant*

Just some thoughts of the top of my head about Sony's current position. :lol Not sure if this is going to be well received or not.

I'm going to boil it down. They forgot that games come first. They truly thought their brandname recognition they've built up over the past two generations would GUARANTEE success.

 

[chespace]

They can't. They cannot. I'm sorry to be so emphatic, but I see people in nearly every sales thread suggesting this, and it's frustrating to see it pop up repeatedly when it clearly doesn't consider financial concerns.

It is simply not financially possible. They've already lost 3.3 billion dollars in the gaming division over the last 3 years, and are almost assuredly going to lose some more this quarter.

All of the money has been spent. It's gone. There is no more. The PS3 has to stand on its own two feet now, and any price cuts or other things that cost money won't happen unless and until the system can make some money. Since Sony lost 400 million last quarter and is likely to lose more this one, that hasn't happened yet.

Yup. At this point, I don't even think Sony can afford to buy install base by eating its profits. I actually want Sony to drop $100 off its console to make this generation much more interesting.

 

[grandjedi6]

Agreed although I think the counter argument is you need a jumpstart to the market somehow because slowly dying on the vine isn't an attractive option either.

Its a lose-lose option. For one in Sony's position you don't want to drop the price unless you can get a large market share jump and the benefits that come with it. Just droping the price and getting only a few additional sales would be the worst scenario for Sony. But because the videogame industry is so prone to the bandwagon effect, its almost impossible for the PS3 to budge out of the hole its gotten itself into.

 

[MirageDwarf]

Does Nintendo start selling disposable Wii?

 

[thestopsign]

I'm going to boil it down. They forgot that games come first. They truly thought their brandname recognition they've built up over the past two generations would GUARANTEE success.

ish? My thoughts themselves aren't very focused there now that I've gone back and read it all the way through. Oh well.

 

[Saint Gregory]

I was wondering - the Wii is now in it's 3rd holiday season with what I believe is the exact same SKU it launched with. Same price, same color, same pack-in game. I know that the 360 went a pretty long time without a price drop but what's the longest a console has gone on sale unchanged since it's launch?

I'm starting to think we won't see any new Wii colors until 2010.

 

[Neo C.]

I CALLED IT!!!

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13901483&postcount=235

Respect, dude, respect.

 

[RBH]

They can't. They cannot. I'm sorry to be so emphatic, but I see people in nearly every sales thread suggesting this, and it's frustrating to see it pop up repeatedly when it clearly doesn't consider financial concerns.

It is simply not financially possible. They've already lost 3.3 billion dollars in the gaming division over the last 3 years, and are almost assuredly going to lose some more this quarter.

All of the money has been spent. It's gone. There is no more. The PS3 has to stand on its own two feet now, and any price cuts or other things that cost money won't happen unless and until the system can make some money. Since Sony lost 400 million last quarter and is likely to lose more this one, that hasn't happened yet.

This.

 

[Log4Girlz]

ish? My thoughts themselves aren't very focused there now that I've gone back and read it all the way through. Oh well.

Don't get me wrong I like your post a lot, I was more like, stressing the point for our less patient viewers lol.

 

[mj1108]

I was wondering - the Wii is now in it's 3rd holiday season with what I believe is the exact same SKU it launched with. Same price, same color, same pack-in game. I know that the 360 went a pretty long time without a price drop but what's the longest a console has gone on sale unchanged since it's launch?

I'm starting to think we won't see any new Wii colors until 2010.

If we see any Wii colors before next-gen it'll probably be a solid gold Wii made out of real gold with Iwata's face etched on the side laughing.

EDIT: Oh and HOLY SHIT @ the 2 million

 

[Opiate]

I don't think I tried to equate the challenge... did I? Say someone changed the rules to chess every year, just slightly, if that were even possible. Someone who loved it would play every iteration. Others might just play it a few times and be done with it. Some people appreciate the small differences, others need a revolution.

Ah, I misunderstood, Fred. I'm very sorry. This position makes more sense, although the analogy to foreign films (the original example) no longer makes sense to me.

For example, I'm a huge foreign and "independent" film fan (I Saw Up the Yangtze just last week and loved it), but not because they are slight variations from year to year, but because they are actually more insightful and sophisticated than something like, say, 300. By contrast, I don't think Gears of War is notably more sophisticated or insightful than typical "casual" fare is.

Am I misunderstanding still, or are we simply in disagreement? I'm definitely willing to listen.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Its a lose-lose option. For one in Sony's position you don't want to drop the price unless you can get a large market share jump and the benefits that come with it. Just droping the price and getting only a few additional sales would be the worst scenario for Sony. But because the videogame industry is so prone to the bandwagon effect, its almost impossible for the PS3 to budge out of the hole its gotten itself into.

I think the problem is sort of that Sony has consistently failed to build towards Xmas. They need a price drop and a big hit game when it matters and what matters is the holidays. Even if they do a price drop in the spring with Killzone 2, it's freaking March. Big Whoop. You get an extra 50k or maybe 100K bump. They needed the kind of bump Microsoft got this month and then a continued bounce effect from that. Dropping the price in March might buy them a little press and a small bump but its probably not going to be sustained enough to change the tide and then they will be losing more on each unit. They are in a tough spot which sadly was completely their own doing.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Those Wii sales are friggin unbelievable

 

[Calcaneus]

Good lord, Nintendo. Its like they do it for the 500 errors these days.

 

[Proven]

I think the problem is sort of that Sony has consistently failed to build towards Xmas. They need a price drop and a big hit game when it matters and what matters is the holidays. Even if they do a price drop in the spring with Killzone 2, it's freaking March. Big Whoop. You get an extra 50k or maybe 100K bump. They needed the king of bump Microsoft got this month and then a continued bounce effect from that. Dropping the price in March might buy them a little press and a small bump but its probably not going to be sustained enough to change the tide and then they will be losing more on each unit. They are in a tough spot which sadly was completely their own doing.

Have you even been paying attention?

 

[mysticstylez]

I think the problem is sort of that Sony has consistently failed to build towards Xmas. They need a price drop and a big hit game when it matters and what matters is the holidays. Even if they do a price drop in the spring with Killzone 2, it's freaking March. Big Whoop. You get an extra 50k or maybe 100K bump. They needed the king of bump Microsoft got this month and then a continued bounce effect from that. Dropping the price in March might buy them a little press and a small bump but its probably not going to be sustained enough to change the tide and then they will be losing more on each unit. They are in a tough spot which sadly was completely their own doing.

Dude they cannot do a price drop. Simple as that. You don't have your company lay off 16,000 employees, then drop the price of something that is already losing you money.

 

[Mundy]

Well this month firmly settles the brand argument. Brands mean sh*t for hardware. When Nintendo dropped the Gameboy Brand you would have thought that would have clued Sony in on brand irrelevance. Relying on the Playstation brand to sell consoles was as big a miscalculation as price sensitivity IMO

 

[Jammy]

I was wondering - the Wii is now in it's 3rd holiday season with what I believe is the exact same SKU it launched with. Same price, same color, same pack-in game. I know that the 360 went a pretty long time without a price drop but what's the longest a console has gone on sale unchanged since it's launch?

I'm starting to think we won't see any new Wii colors until 2010.

Wii owns that record... along with all the other ones. :lol

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Well this month firmly settles the brand argument. Brands mean sh*t for hardware. When Nintendo dropped the Gameboy Brand you would have thought that would have clued Sony in on brand irrelevance. Relying on the Playstation brand to sell consoles was as big a miscalculation as price sensitivity IMO

Kutaragi still believes that brand means something.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Yeah, I don't think that 2009 is going to be the fabled year of the PS3, either. They've sold more than I initially thought they would earlier in the year, but that seems to mean little now. The slow motion disaster of PS3 continues to tumble and twist.

 

[Chrange]

Think about it, what was the one thing that people wanted a PSP for back in 2004? It was to have everything from internet, games, music, and videos in one device, that could (hopefully) fit in your pocket, instead of taking multiple devices. Ultimately, they've have failed at this. In the end, from what I've witnessed as a teenager, it hasn't hit that "hip" teen crowd as they were hoping for. The younger crowd of 10-13 year old's that are too embarrassed to have a "kiddy" DS, and don't really care about the quality of the game as long as it is sports, racing, or violent have suddenly become their main market, if not indirectly. Could have Sony avoided all of this? Maybe.

That's what I was thinking, also speculating that now they're too late to hit that market as the iPod Touch (or iPhone) has it locked down.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Have you even been paying attention?

I have no idea what this means.

Dude they cannot do a price drop. Simple as that. You don't have your company lay off 16,000 employees, then drop the price of something that is already losing you money.

I never said they will do a price drop. More analyzing it from the devil's advocate position that was related to grandjedi6's post.

 

[grandjedi6]

I think the problem is sort of that Sony has consistently failed to build towards Xmas. They need a price drop and a big hit game when it matters and what matters is the holidays. Even if they do a price drop in the spring with Killzone 2, it's freaking March. Big Whoop. You get an extra 50k or maybe 100K bump. They needed the kind of bump Microsoft got this month and then a continued bounce effect from that. Dropping the price in March might buy them a little press and a small bump but its probably not going to be sustained enough to change the tide and then they will be losing more on each unit. They are in a tough spot which sadly was completely their own doing.

I can kinda understand their logic though. If there goal is to squeeze every sale out of the current price point that they can, then it does make sense to not price drop during Christmas.

Either way though the PS3's probably doomed. I can't see a solution to their current predictament. I mean, the only real choice Sony has is to cut losses as much as possible while working as fast as they can to cut down the PS3's production costs. But with all the various tech the PS3 has in it that's not the simplest of jobs.

People always compare the PS3 to the gamecube but thats really not a fair comparison. The Gamecube had the ability to pricedrop whereas the PS3 doesn't. The reason the Gamecube is so far ahead of the PS3 during their respective 3rd holiday seasons is because that was when Nintendo cut the price down to $99 and threw in that Zelda bundle. the PS3 doesn't have the option to do that.

 

[Saint Gregory]

Those Wii sales are friggin unbelievable

I honestly haven't been very surprised by the NPD thread in about a year and a half until tonight. It's been six hours since I saw the numbers and I'm still in disbelief.

 

[KR3W]

Those PS3 sales are downright depressing. Wow.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

- Is there a list of the banned in this thread?

- Everybody wondering how Nintendo is doing this without a big Christmas release needs to realise that Wii Music and Wii Fit are those big Christmas releases. It doesn't just print money. It prints money printing machines, that when they print money, the next thing the money touches turns into another money printing machine.

 

[NullPointer]

I'm PS360 myself.

Same here. Works out OK I guess. PS3 for Bluray, Hulu, and exclusives. 360 for everything else, especially co-op/multiplayer.

 

[Fredescu]

Ah, I misunderstood, Fred. I'm very sorry. This position makes more sense, although the analogy to foreign films (the original example) no longer makes sense to me.

For example, I'm a huge foreign and "independent" film fan (I Saw Up the Yangtze just last week and loved it), but not because they are slight variations from year to year, but because they are actually more insightful and sophisticated than something like, say, 300. By contrast, I don't think Gears of War is notably more sophisticated or insightful than typical "casual" fare is.

Am I misunderstanding still, or are we simply in disagreement? I'm definitely willing to listen.

The original quote that started the argument was:

The videogame industry is finally mainstream and now we're now all elitists.

We're like foreign film fans that wonder why garbage like Wild Hogs makes $168 million dollars.

So it's really a debate about the breadth of audience more than anything. It's not meant to be an all-encompassing comparison. You'll get no disagreement from me about Gears being shallow in story and setting. I think there are arguments to be made about it being more sophisticated in gameplay than say Wii Play, but I don't think I've gone there yet.

 

[No Means Nomad]

LEFT 4 DEAD (360) 410K

Valve has to be happy with that.

 

[Barrett2]

Those PS3 sales are downright depressing. Wow.

And you're the asshole who convinced me to put two of them in the trunk of my car!

 

[Link]

I can kinda understand their logic though. If there goal is to squeeze every sale out of the current price point that they can, then it does make sense to not price drop during Christmas.

Either way though the PS3's probably doomed. I can't see a solution to their current predictament. I mean, the only real choice Sony has is to cut losses as much as possible while working as fast as they can to cut down the PS3's production costs. But with all the various tech the PS3 has in it that's not the simplest of jobs.

People always compare the PS3 to the gamecube but thats really not a fair comparison. The Gamecube had the ability to pricedrop whereas the PS3 doesn't. The reason the Gamecube is so far ahead of the PS3 during their respective 3rd holiday seasons is because that was when Nintendo cut the price down to $99 and threw in that Zelda bundle. the PS3 doesn't have the option to do that.

While I agree with you that the circumstances are different, in the end, it's all about the absolutes. Regardless of why the PS3 is selling so poorly, the fact that it's selling poorly is the only thing that matters.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I'm actually really interested to see how Sony handles the Killzone 2 launch.

By all means, it has all the makings of a game that should sell at least as well as the first Gears did to the 360 userbase (~50% attach rate at the time) in North America.

So far though, PS3 gamers have been generally apathetic to nearly all of Sony's 1st/2nd party offerings here.

The question is, what can Sony do to light a fire under their fanbase? Because if they can't sell a game like KZ to people who already own the console, what hope do they have of it being a system seller by word of mouth?

I'd say that instead of jacking the size of the HDD next time around, they should think about including a headset with every console. They should definitely make all of their betas "Open", this exclusivity fanclub bullshit has done them no good at all. Start trying to foster the same "I'm buying what everyone else is buying this month" mentality that MS has pushed.

And use the 2005 trailer in the commercial, and have it cut seamlessly to gameplay. There's no reason this game shouldn't push 1 million its first month.

 

[Log4Girlz]

- Is there a list of the banned in this thread?

- Everybody wondering how Nintendo is doing this without a big Christmas release needs to realise that Wii Music and Wii Fit are those big Christmas releases. It doesn't just print money. It prints money printing machines, that when they print money, the next thing the money touches turns into another money printing machine.

And they accomplished this feat with a super gamecube and an antiquated handheld (OMG ugly grafx).

I think next generation they will generate enough revenue to actually buy the Japanese mainland.

 

[RBH]

And you're the asshole who convinced me to put two of them in the trunk of my car!

:lol

 

[Pachael]

Dude they cannot do a price drop. Simple as that. You don't have your company lay off 16,000 employees, then drop the price of something that is already losing you money.

As I was repeatedly told in that thread, there wasn't any impact to the games division (ha). I originally put it in Gaming because of the effects of such a large job cut would bring to the Gaming division - if the electronics business was doing so badly in a time when Blu-Ray has won, and the Bravias are one of the best True HDTVs around, what does this say for the gaming unit, that has lost $3 billion over the past 3 years chasing its tail around?

That said, I can see where people are coming from on the 'cut prices nao' part, as well as a Sony = Sega post I saw a while back - there's always a belief that with a price cut the console of choice will rise like a phoenix (Dreamcast or Saturn, take yer pick), when everyone else laughed as the division was bleeding money. Recent commentary about laughing at Microsoft for doing the same is also justified, but is offset by the fact that it's still selling well at retail and they're banking it in with third-party software sales.