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[sprsk]

I'm sure Sony's reponse to this embarassment will be to release a 300GB PS3 for 499!

What a deal!

 

[Deku]

So Sony's biggest game of the season failed to chart, their cookie cutter bald marine sci-fi shooter puts up mediocre sales, and the PS3 performs below 400k in November during the year of a price drop. This also comes right after the news that their company is now listless and in financiall turmoil. If this isn't a surefire bright line that identifies the end of the system's hopes of a reversal, then I don't know what is.

Ah well. Some good from this will surface in the long run. Sony will never try to force upon the consumer a niche media standard packaged in a high entry fee ever again. On the gaming side, hopefully they can rediscover the magic that made the PS2 so great, that is diversity. They tried to engage the Xbox on Microsoft's terms and got spanked for it. I'm also giving up my expectations for the system as well. With DQX going to the Wii and independent RPG efforts like Valkyria Chronicles bombing universally, the PS3 will never have a chance at becoming the RPG powerhouse that I purchased the machine for. At least the hardware is worth it for being a PS2 upscaler and a terrific DVD/BD player.

Generally, I find it prudent to refrain from making such sweeping declarations but Shuhei Yoshida revealed all their cards when he called LBP their most important game this season. With these results and their games division hemorrhaging money to the limit of what the company can absorb, one can safely say that Sony's hand is a losing one.

I see you went for the jugular there. Do you want to be accused of being a sales-ager who ar eall supposed to have bad taste in games do you?

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I think CoD5 on Wii is a significant blow to the hardcore western third party for the Wii. It recieved good reviews, got advertising exclusive to it, and yet it still sold profoundly less than its counterparts. If the EU is anything to go by, CoD:WaW for the Wii likely won't even break the top 20 here, although I'm getting ahead of myself.

I'm not so sure it matters as much as you think. Treyarch made the completely idiotic decision to limit the Wii to five modes online (all deathmatch, one being Boot Camp), use friend codes and set the player limit to 8. I'm sure it turned a lot of people off of the Wii version and I can't imagine Activision doesn't realize that.

 

[Proven]

I don't disagree with this but my point still stands. You have to start to build momentum somewhere and a good place to do it is always Xmas where everything is magnified. The early part of the year was pretty good for the PS3 but they dropped the ball this fall by not having a backend counterpart to MGS4. It's definitely not an exact science on how to stack a lineup especially since things can slip but Microsoft has a great combo setup with Halo and Gears alternating years and whatever else they plug into the slots like Fable. Sony doesn't have that. They may have it next year but they've already wasted this fall.

My point is that sure, the holiday seasons help build momentum, but you need have it strong enough that you can just launch any time, like with Nintendo. If you can only pull something off in the holiday season once, I'd make it the system's launch to help you put your foot in the door, but after that you need to be able to sell hundreds of thousands and keep (preferably gain) momentum any given quarter, not just one at the end of the year.

Nintendo has been so awesome at creating momentum that they have a game that released in April, a considered non-game that released in May, and a game that is looked upon as a pile of shit that released in February of 07, all selling in the top five in NPD several months later. And then that's not mentioning that they have the ace of a pack-in game that at the very least maintains momentum every single month for them.

 

[Kuroyume]

Did Resistance 2 perform better in its first month than the previous game?

 

[AnimeTheme]

This thread is already too long to read completely lol... so any number for LBP this month? I wouldn't say it's bad if it can keep the last month number (roughly 250k).

 

[sprsk]

P.S. Wii Music: Don't call it a comeback.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

I'm sure Sony's reponse to this embarassment will be to release a 300GB PS3 for 499!

What a deal!

SMARTEST!

IDEA!

EVER!

 

[Deku]

Nintendo has been so awesome at creating momentum that they have a game that released in April, a considered non-game that released in May, and a game that is looked upon as a pile of shit that released in February of 07, all selling in the top five in NPD several months later. And then that's not mentioning that they have the ace of a pack-in game that at the very least maintains momentum every single month for them.

Momentum? Isn't it good to have games sell several months later rather than dropping off a cliff?

As a publisher I'd love to have the kind of numbers month in and month out and a few publishers have actually managed to do that. Just because some games don't perform like GTAIV doesn't mean they're the product of clever marketing or momentum.

It's good for the industry to break the blockbuster mold because its a guarantee that 90% of releases won't be a blockbuster.

 

[camineet]

I have been saying Wii HD for about 2 years now. I think it will be backwards compatible and have enough horse power to make games in HD resolutions. It wont have the power of a PS3/360, but enough to run a game like Mario Galaxy in HD Resolutions. It is not going to be a texture/polygon beast, but just barely powerfull enough to make game look decent on an HD set. Main reason is to keep costs low so they could in theory release it for $199.99 in 2010, undercutting price of what MS or Sony have in mind for the next round.

I disagree. No, I think the Wii HD will be a significant upgrade in graphics performance, a true Wii 2, not just a Wii+ in HD, which is what you're describing.

It's been reported that Wii to Wii HD will be like GameBoy to GBA, a true 'next-generation' machine. I'm thinking it'll be at least as powerful as 360/PS3 in graphics, and hopefully a little more so it could run games with 360/PS3-level detail at 60fps, 1080p. Wii HD will still be significantly less powerful than XB3,PS4 though. Cost: $249, Release: fall 2011.
Nintendo isn't spending 100s of millions in R&D just to bring out a slightly upgraded Wii that can do HD.

 

[soldat7]

I look forward to the month when every piece of software in the top 10 is Wii game.

Won't happen. And for the sake of the entire video game industry, that's not something that you want to have happen. Competition is good folks, and necessary.

 

[Proven]

I have been saying Wii HD for about 2 years now. I think it will be backwards compatible and have enough horse power to make games in HD resolutions. It wont have the power of a PS3/360, but enough to run a game like Mario Galaxy in HD Resolutions. It is not going to be a texture/polygon beast, but just barely powerfull enough to make game look decent on an HD set. Main reason is to keep costs low so they could in theory release it for $199.99 in 2010, undercutting price of what MS or Sony have in mind for the next round.

Actually, it'll be even better if they can market it like the NXE, just a revolution of the console but it'll come as some kind of add on with extra processing/graphics power, maybe extra HD space, and retailing no more than $50 standalone.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I have been saying Wii HD for about 2 years now. I think it will be backwards compatible and have enough horse power to make games in HD resolutions. It wont have the power of a PS3/360, but enough to run a game like Mario Galaxy in HD Resolutions. It is not going to be a texture/polygon beast, but just barely powerfull enough to make game look decent on an HD set. Main reason is to keep costs low so they could in theory release it for $199.99 in 2010, undercutting price of what MS or Sony have in mind for the next round.

Its tricky. Wii is actually atypical for Nintendo. Their consoles are usually competitive with whatever else is out there when it comes to hardware. Although their strategy this gen has paid off in spades, it won't cut it the next time around when their competitors actively copy them. Wii sells because of the unique controller, its a gimmick which has paid off. I doubt they will come up with anything nearly as revolutionary and game changing as that controller. So they can't just double the power of the Wii and call it a day. I don't think they'll be on par with MS and Sony's next offerings, but it will at least be on par with a mid-range '07 PC...which is lightyears beyond Wii.

 

[SuperDowns]

WII: Its over 2 million?!

People not buying little big planet like they should.

PS3 has some bright ideas...

 

[soldat7]

I disagree. No, I think the Wii HD will be a significant upgrade in graphics performance, a true Wii 2, not just a Wii+ in HD, which is what you're describing.

It's been reported that Wii to Wii HD will be like GameBoy to GBA, a true 'next-generation' machine. I'm thinking it'll be at least as powerful as 360/PS3 in graphics, and hopefully a little more so it could run games with 360/PS3-level detail at 60fps, 1080p.

Wow. Pie in the sky my friend, pie in the sky.

 

[Proven]

Momentum? Isn't it good to have games sell several months later rather than dropping off a cliff?

As a publisher I'd love to have the kind of numbers month in and month out and a few publishers have actually managed to do that. Just because some games don't perform like GTAIV doesn't mean they're the product of clever marketing or momentum.

It's good for the industry to break the blockbuster mold because its a guarantee that 90% of releases won't be a blockbuster.

No! The games aren't a product of momentum, they create momentum!

Edit: This has been a problem with publishers as well. They don't want to jump on a system unless it already has momentum, but they are the ones that build momentum hand in hand with the console developer. Nintendo was incredibly lucky this generation that they have the ability to build so much momentum on their own, from the power of their design philosophies and imagination during crisis.

 

[supermackem]

Wii holly shite son, 360 nice turn out, ps3 on yer bike kid. I cant believe a third party fps outsold sonys big gun for xmas. Shame on all you ps3 owners that didnt buy r2, where do sony go from here i dont know how they can spin this one.

 

[MidiSurf]

BTW is PS2 ever going to hit $99 price tag ? It's still doing fine and it could probably do even better with $99 tag.

 

[Opiate]

I'm not so sure it matters as much as you think. Treyarch made the completely idiotic decision to limit the Wii to five modes online (all deathmatch, one being Boot Camp), use friend codes and set the player limit to 8. I'm sure it turned a lot of people off of the Wii version and I can't imagine Activision doesn't realize that.

I wouldn't call it the "final nail" or anything, but it's hardly a positive.

Post-launch, there have now been a handful of attempts at standard, third party FPS on the Wii, and they've all flopped horribly. This list includes Call of Duty 5, Quantum of Solace, Brothers in Arms, and Medal of Honor.

You can make excuses for all of them, but at some point the excuses wear thin. I agree that circumstances can at times cause a specific game to do less well than it "should" do. However, it becomes less of an unfortunate coincidence and more of a pattern when you talk about 4-5 games in a row bombing in a specific genre, particularly when some of these games sold millions on competing systems.

Again, the Wii could turn it around, of course. This isn't infallible truth, but it is a consistent enough pattern at this point that I'm sure it's scaring third parties away.

 

[Shurs]

Does anyone have Xbox 360 hardware numbers for it's second year through November? I think it would be interesting to compare those numbers to the PS3's second year numbers.

 

[Deku]

No! The games aren't a product of momentum, they create momentum!

How do they create momentum? the only way that happens is word of mouth or continued flow of new gamers who finds the existing 6 month old catalog fresh enough that they continue to pick up those games which you deem to have an expired shelf life. Game's arent active participants, they cannot create momentum, but you speak of these titles which continue to sell as somehow benefit from some sort of special treatment.

the point is that the big launches that subsequently fall off, something which has been so typical this generation, is not something that should be celebrated, you should be happy a game continues to sell and not try to rationalize it through the intervention of something called 'momentum' which apparently only Nintendo can create. This does a great disservice to everyone else in the industry who have succeed or are trying to make games that sell steadily and sell to an expanding audience as they purchase the hardware.

 

[ViperVisor]

I think the problem you're having is that you're operating under the assumption that Sony WANTS to be first above all else. Sony is a business. In business it's certainly great to be first, to be the maker of the product in highest demand, but it's not crucial. Look at what Nintendo did during the N64 and GameCube eras. They sold relatively poorly each time compared to their competitors but they still were successful consoles for the companies because they made Nintendo money.

I know you like to chat things up but this is a bridge too far. For the previous decade Sony had only been the market leader. That is how they operated with a profit. Nintendo board room could always say we will be OK if our marketplace fell by even 50% up until GameCube when it did fall that much.

Price drop of PS3 is like people have said just shaking things up. You still are dealing with the same stuff in the recipe.

What Sony needed was for LBP to catch on like a multi-player MarioSims hybrid. I don't know the quality of the game in reality so I am not judging that.

 

[norinrad21]

My heart swells with pride

its been long coming, we started this journey back in 2002 when people thought we were the next sega..........:lol :lol :lol

 

[Log4Girlz]

BTW is PS2 ever going to hit $99 price tag ? It's still doing fine and it could probably do even better with $99 tag.

A couple of posts up we talk about how Sony can't afford to cut the price of the PS3, why would you think they could afford a price cut on the PS2? Its selling great at the price its at, why cut into profits? The increase in sales volume this late in the generation will not be substantial enough to justify it.

 

[Proven]

I wouldn't call it the "final nail" or anything, but it's hardly a positive.

Post-launch, there have now been a handful of attempts at standard FPS on the Wii, and they've all flopped horribly. This list includes Call of Duty 5, Quantum of Solace, Brothers in Arms, and Medal of Honor.

You can make excuses for all of them, but at some point the excuses wear thin. I agree that circumstances can at times cause a specific game to do less well than it "should" do. However, it becomes less of an unfortunate coincidence and more of a pattern when you talk about 4-5 games in a row bombing in a specific genre, particularly when some of these games sold millions on competing systems.

Again, the Wii could turn it around, of course. This isn't infallible truth, but it is a consistent enough pattern at this point that I'm sure it's scaring third parties away.

Blah, can you even say it's terrible that the games sold many times more on a competing system when the two systems pretty much had different games?

When you compare multiplatform games for the PS3 and 360, you don't have them selling so far and ahead of each other like they do to the Wii, because they're the same game.

A fair example would be something like Guitar Hero, which is mostly the same on all systems, and in this scenario, despite the 360 being considered the best system for it the game is doing extremely well on the Wii.

 

[Gaborn]

I know you like to chat things up but this is a bridge too far. For the previous decade Sony had only been the market leader. That is how they operated with a profit. Nintendo board room could always say we will be OK if our marketplace fell by even 50% up until GameCube when it did fall that much.

Price drop of PS3 is like people have said just shaking things up. You still are dealing with the same stuff in the recipe.

What Sony needed was for LBP to catch on like a multi-player MarioSims hybrid. I don't know the quality of the game in reality so I am not judging that.

I'm not sure where you think I disagree with you. What I'm saying is Sony's strategy this generation has failed. They can react to that one of two ways. They can continue on as if nothing has happened and make moves that they feel will just get them more sales at any cost, or they can work to make themselves profitable. Sony's doing the sane thing and focusing on profitability right now.

 

[Deku]

My heart swells with pride

its been long coming, we started this journey back in 2002 when people thought we were the next sega..........:lol :lol :lol

You're from NOA ? If so GAF wants to have a word with you. You suck.

 

[David H Wong]

I find myself rooting for Wii Music's sales, just because of how nasty the attacks got around here. I feel like I'm rooting for the underdog.

 

[jibblypop]

holy crap. it's a massacre.

by the way i'm glad wiimusic is selling well. fuck matt from ign. he sounds like an out of touch old man when he talks about that game. I have lots of fun playing that with my girlfriend so boo hoo that he thinks its not a game.

 

[DoomGyver]

Holy shit at Wii.

Meh at 360.

Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit at PS3.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Probably already posted, but here's how YoY looks for November:

Nov. 2007  | 2008  | % Increase / Decrease
Wii: 981K  | 2040K | 108%
NDS: 1530K | 1570K | 2.6%
360: 770K  | 836K  | 8.6%
PSP: 567K  | 421K  | 25.7%
PS3: 466K  | 378K  | 18.9%
PS2: 496K  | 206K  | 58.5%

Then for fun, using the % change from above used on last December's #s to project this year's December:

Dec. 2007  | 2008 (est.)
Wii: 1350K | 2808K 
NDS: 2470K | 2534K
360: 1260K | 1368K 
PSP: 1060K | 788K
PS3: 798K  | [B]647K[/B] 
PS2: 1100K | 457K

From January to November 2008, more than 2.8 million PS3s have been sold in the U.S.

So for December Wii sales to eclipse 2008 PS3 sales... if an estimated 647,000 PS3s are sold, Nintendo has to sell ~3,450,000 Wiis in December.

 

[Regulus Tera]

... Main reason is to keep costs low so they could in theory release it for $199.99 in 2010, undercutting price of what MS or Sony have in mind for the next round.

Nintendo hasn't even launched any extra colours yet. Wii HD is a possibility, but not in 2010.

I'm guessing the Wii will have a Famicom-like lifespan here.

 

[Ysiadmihi]

I wouldn't call it the "final nail" or anything, but it's hardly a positive.

Post-launch, there have now been a handful of attempts at standard FPS on the Wii, and they've all flopped horribly. This list includes Call of Duty 5, Quantum of Solace, Brothers in Arms, and Medal of Honor.

You can make excuses for all of them, but at some point the excuses wear thin. I agree that circumstances can at times cause a specific game to do less well than it "should" do. However, it becomes less of an unfortunate coincidence and more of a pattern when you talk about 4-5 games in a row bombing in a specific genre, particularly when some of these games sold millions on competing systems.

Again, the Wii could turn it around, of course. This isn't infallible truth, but it is a consistent enough pattern at this point that I'm sure it's scaring third parties away.

I would absolutely agree with you *if* the games you listed were honest attempts to make the best experience possible on Wii. Quantum of Solace and Band of Brothers were both horrid (I'm sure you know this), World at War is a solid effort but intentionally feature light for seemingly no reason and Heroes 2...well, I think the developers were held back by EA on that one.

If World at War had as many features as the 360/PS3 version and still sold like crap you'd have a point, but you can't use half-assed efforts selling poorly as a sign that games like these can't sell big on Wii.

 

[Proven]

How do they create momentum? the only way that happens is word of mouth or continued flow of new gamers who finds the existing 6 month old catalog fresh enough that they continue to pick up those games which you deem to have an expired shelf life. Game's arent active participants, they cannot create momentum, but you speak of these titles which continue to sell as somehow benefit from some sort of special treatment.

the point is that the big launches that subsequently fall off, something which has been so typical this generation, is not something that should be celebrated, you should be happy a game continues to sell and not try to rationalize it through the intervention of something called 'momentum' which apparently only Nintendo can create. This does a great disservice to everyone else in the industry who have succeed or are trying to make games that sell steadily and sell to an expanding audience as they purchase the hardware.

I'm only saying that only Nintendo can create so much of it on their own. Other games sell like this too, up until this holiday season it's been Halo 3, Gears of War, and CoD4, and I'd like to see charts for Resistance and Motorstorm too.

You just need to create the game for your console early, and capitalize. I add the early and capitalize part because I'm not entirely sure how to explain Little Big Planet. Either it wasn't the right game for the system or system is currently decelerating overall.

 

[Rancid Mildew]

How do they create momentum? the only way that happens is word of mouth or continued flow of new gamers who finds the existing 6 month old catalog fresh enough that they continue to pick up those games which you deem to have an expired shelf life. Game's arent active participants, they cannot create momentum, but you speak of these titles which continue to sell as somehow benefit from some sort of special treatment.

the point is that the big launches that subsequently fall off, something which has been so typical this generation, is not something that should be celebrated, you should be happy a game continues to sell and not try to rationalize it through the intervention of something called 'momentum' which apparently only Nintendo can create. This does a great disservice to everyone else in the industry who have succeed or are trying to make games that sell steadily and sell to an expanding audience as they purchase the hardware.

Precisely.

 

[speculawyer]

by the way i'm glad wiimusic is selling well. fuck matt from ign. he sounds like an out of touch old man when he talks about that game. I have lots of fun playing that with my girlfriend so boo hoo that he thinks its not a game.

It is funny how he has such a boner for Zack & wiki but hates wii music with such passion.

 

[speculawyer]

I'm sure Sony's reponse to this embarassment will be to release a 300GB PS3 for 499!

What a deal!

Go 1gig for $599!

 

[Yes Boss!]

I bet most wii owners don't even know this game exists.

Galaxy isn't going anywhere. It is a legacy title and will be here for the next few generations. That said, it is not the most important title on the system. Wii is all about Sports, Play, Fit, Music and the forthcoming Resort.

 

[norinrad21]

You're from NOA ? If so GAF wants to have a word with you. You suck.

No just an extreme Nintendo fanatic. I'm sorry but its the greatest company in the world :lol


I love the fact the Mk just drop by to say hello. MarioKart for 2009

 

[vanguardian1]

I think CoD5 on Wii is a significant blow to the hardcore western third party for the Wii. It recieved good reviews, got advertising exclusive to it, and yet it still sold profoundly less than its counterparts. If the EU is anything to go by, CoD:WaW for the Wii likely won't even break the top 20 here, although I'm getting ahead of myself.

The reviews mentioning severe framerate problems in single player and no real local multiplayer support means I'll be waiting for it to hit the bargain bin. AFAIAC Treyarch messed up.

The Wii is best known for local multiplayer style games, and yet any big series games from companies completely skip on this. *sigh*

 

[Brofist]

My heart swells with pride

its been long coming, we started this journey back in 2002 when people thought we were the next sega..........:lol :lol :lol

Awwww how cute. An obsessed fanboy who thinks he's "part of the team" :lol

 

[grandjedi6]

No just an extreme Nintendo fanatic. I'm sorry but its the greatest company in the world :lol


I love the fact the Mk just drop by to say hello. MarioKart for 2009

The reason why Nintendo
gets crappy 3rd party ports..

 

[Deku]

I'm only saying that only Nintendo can create so much of it on their own. Other games sell like this too, up until this holiday season it's been Halo 3, Gears of War, and CoD4, and I'd like to see charts for Resistance and Motorstorm too.

The reason why those games have no momentum according to you is that there's about 2 million and not a single soul more, who buy these games day one and no one else. Then they all log into GAF to make fun of the game that sells 300k copies a month for 12 months straight.

Obviously the story of the tortoise and the hare was not taught in your childhood. I find it baffling that this is even an issue for rationalizing the failure of these titles you mentioned to expand beyond the same base that's been treaded and retreaded. Not to mention as a framework to explain anything, it's pure nonesense.

 

[Opiate]

Blah, can you even say it's terrible that the games sold many times more on a competing system when the two systems pretty much had different games?

When you compare multiplatform games for the PS3 and 360, you don't have them selling so far and ahead of each other like they do to the Wii, because they're the same game.

A fair example would be something like Guitar Hero, which is mostly the same on all systems, and in this scenario, despite the 360 being considered the best system for it the game is doing extremely well on the Wii.

I really wouldn't argue with any of this reasoning. I agree that CoD5:WaW on the Wii is a victim of unfortunate coincidence (in this case, being an inferior version).

What I'm arguing, instead, is that we have now had "unfortunate coincidences" many times in a row on the Wii, in this particular genre. It had some success exactly at launch, but virtually no third party game has had success since.

So again, this could be unfortunate coincidence. I'm phrasing it that way on purpose. However, it is also may not be, and I think at this point it's more likely that it's not.

 

[Trevor360]

I'm sure Sony's reponse to this embarassment will be to release a 300GB PS3 for 499!

What a deal!

thats about what MS would charge for a 300gb hard drive on its own

 

[SouthernDragon]

Does this mean 4 million in Dec.?

 

[BIG BUBBA]

damn, I just tried out Home. I expect it to sell at LEAST 10 million consoles by next spring.

 

[Opiate]

I would absolutely agree with you *if* the games you listed were honest attempts to make the best experience possible on Wii. Quantum of Solace and Band of Brothers were both horrid (I'm sure you know this), World at War is a solid effort but intentionally feature light for seemingly no reason and Heroes 2...well, I think the developers were held back by EA on that one.

This is what I'm talking about right here, Ysiad.

You've just managed to explain away every failure, and I have no doubt that we could explain away a 5th bomb, a 6th bomb, and a 7th bomb, if they so occured. Individually, all of these explanations sound entirely reasonable. But at what point does it stop being a series of unfortunate coincidences, and actually become a pattern?

One big, third party FPS hit for the Wii could do wonders. As it stands, the list of unfortunate coincidences continues to get longer.

 

[Incognito]

Do you know if they're gonna make a Midtown Madness 4? I'd kill for a next-gen MM, and I don't even like racers...

That's a great question. I just wish I knew the answer. MM3 was probably one of the best games on the XBOX... Pity MS can't find room for MM4 this gen...

 

[Arpharmd B]

WII FIT (WII) 697K
MARIO KART (WII) 637K

I think the reason 3rd parties don't sell big, top ten on Wii is because they don't understand the Wii's market like Nintendo does. Nintendo knows exactly who is buying this thing, and exactly how to get them.

I imagine games like Rayman Rabbids, Boom Blox, etc... games that actually take into account Wii's audience are selling great, just not top ten great. I can see 3rd party software breaking out with a top ten hit, but its never going to be something GAf gets wet over, like a No More Heroes or a Sin and Punishment 2..

No matter how big the install base gets, its still selling to the same core demographic.