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[clav]

In the grandscheme of things they certainly don't. Only for fanboy wars. Also what do you mean by "so why don't we mention them". Do you seriously not know? It's because we get the top 10 for free from the generous NPD group and that's all we get! We don't get more than those, doesn't mean the rest isn't significant. It would probably be illegal to release more numbers if you had em (even if you payed big bugs for them). The only times we get more data is through PR stuff or something and even then it's usually graphs of totals (total 3rd party software for instance) and rarely specific games if we're lucky.

So why are you so upset?

 

[JudgeN]

I don't think anyone was saying "The PS3 is not worth it". Obviously it is, to a large number of people. What they were saying was "It's not worth it in comparison to the other stuff on the market".

You mention a blu-ray player, free online, and games you like playing. Right now, it's possible to buy an arcade 360 bundle (which comes with one decent game and a family junk game), a low-end blu-ray player, and a Live membership for around the same price as a $399 PS3. If you bumped that up to a decent, profile 2.0 high-quality Blu-Ray player, you could do 360+Blu-Ray within the same ballpark as the PS3. The numbers fudge up or down on both sides if you get deals on any one product. If a consumer opts out of Blu-Ray, it's not even close.

It's true that the PS3 has some fantastic exclusives. No one is going to doubt that. It might also be true that those exclusives appeal to you more than 360 exclusives. Even then, though, the exclusive on both systems hit a lot of the same genres--for example, both the 360 and the PS3 have high quality exclusive FPS games. Both the 360 and the PS3 have high quality exclusive TPS games (even if, say, Uncharted probably targets a different audience than GoW). Both have high quality exclusive racing games. Both have exclusive singing games and exclusive trivia games.

I would say that there are differences too. The 360 clearly has a lineup of JRPGs not present on the PS3, and the PS3 has software like Little Big Planet and even Heavenly Sword that do not have competing products on the 360, but I think on the whole there aren't many demographics who are tickled only by the PS3's exclusives and not the 360's (or even vice versa, really). I can't imagine individual franchise loyalties (to MGS or Resistance or Halo or whatever) come into play at this point, since pretty much everyone who really cared about a franchise enough to make a purchasing decision probably already did in the first 2/3 years of both systems.

By and large, though, both systems share >80% of their library, and so exclusives are going to be in the back of the mind of most consumers in the sense that whether they are getting a PS3 or a 360, they are getting mostly the same games.

It's not that people are saying that the PS3 is a bad value--they're saying that the way prices are right now, the 360 is seen by most consumers as being a BETTER value. That's no attempt at trolling, it's an attempt at explaining the sales numbers you're seeing in a pretty obvious way. If the PS3 had a superior value proposition to the 360 right now, you wouldn't be seeing a large disparity in hardware sales.



~190k, lifetime total of a hair under a million.

I agree, as someone who favors his PS3 compared to his 360/Wii. I just can't bring myself to recommend it to anyone right now, unless there interested in Sony first party games. And if they are interested in them they already know to get one. I"m telling all my friends to get 360, because at the end of the day as long as 360 software is great there will always be a PS3 port/multiplatform release. PS3 owners should rejoice at 360 sales because its going to take us on a WILD RIDE YO

 

[Nocebo]

So why are you so upset?

We're just correcting your slanted view of the situation. Are you saying your statement suddenly becomes valid even though all other data provided outside of NPD top 10s proves it wrong?

You wouldn't be the first one claiming stupid shit about the top 10 and getting banned for it. You want to get banned?

 

[Narcosis]

So why don't we mention them? The top 10 games then don't matter then going by your logic.

WTF!?

many have been requesting more than just the top 10 because the top 10 provides a narrow focus of the industry. people looking at the top 10 only and saying things like "The Wii only sells first party games!" and "PS3 sells no games!" were caught off guard when various financial reports came out touting that Wii 3rd party sales were over 50% of software sold and several publishers made some good revenue off PS3.

Because of this narrow focus many are wishing NPD gave out perhaps a top 30 like media Create does for Japan. In those charts you get a better idea of how games perform in longer stretches.

 

[VanMardigan]

So this month, I'm going to totally pretend the NPD's never happened. Just too painful. So I'll perform the forum equivalent of holding my hands to my ears and yelling "la la la" ignoring Nintendo Wii's undeserved (imo) success.

Here is VanMardigan's NPD results (based on each console's offerings for the non-Soccer mom crowd). Basically, what I think they DESERVE to sell based on what they offer for gamers this holiday season:

Xbox 360: 1.4 Million
DS: 1.2 Million
Ps3: 885k
PsP: 440k
Ps2: 402k
Wii: 127k

And the Top Ten games (based on their awesomeness, not the amount of minigames they can cram into a dvd):

1. Gears of War 2
2. Little Big Planet
3. Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
4. Left 4 Dead
5. Resistance 2
6. Rock Band 2
7. Mario Kart Wii
8. Call of Duty: World At War
9. Mirror's Edge
10. Wii Music (lulz, just kidding, its Valkria Chronicles)

So I'm going to reflect on my NPD's and what an awesome thing that is for gamers everywhere.

 

[szaromir]

Total software sales - $1.45B
360 software sales - $408M
Playstation family software sales - $352M
Nintendo (Wii+DS) software sales - ~$690M

So Wii is probably the biggest player on the market followed closely by 360. Sony's marketshare is only 25% at the moment with the three platforms they support. Things do not look good for them.

 

[Nocebo]

...

You must have been a big fan of that scifi show "Sliders" (the one with the paralell dimensions)

 

[TheKingsCrown]

So this month, I'm going to totally pretend the NPD's never happened. Just too painful. So I'll perform the forum equivalent of holding my hands to my ears and yelling "la la la" ignoring Nintendo Wii's undeserved (imo) success.

Here is VanMardigan's NPD results (based on each console's offerings for the non-Soccer mom crowd). Basically, what I think they DESERVE to sell based on what they offer for gamers this holiday season:

Xbox 360: 1.4 Million
DS: 1.2 Million
Ps3: 885k
PsP: 440k
Ps2: 402k
Wii: 127k

And the Top Ten games (based on their awesomeness, not the amount of minigames they can cram into a dvd):

1. Gears of War 2
2. Little Big Planet
3. Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
4. Left 4 Dead
5. Resistance 2
6. Rock Band 2
7. Mario Kart Wii
8. Call of Duty: World At War
9. Mirror's Edge
10. Wii Music (lulz, just kidding, its Valkria Chronicles)

So I'm going to reflect on my NPD's and what an awesome thing that is for gamers everywhere.

:lol

 

[AniHawk]

.

I WILL CUT YOU FOR PLACING MIRROR'S EDGE SO LOW.

 

[Azure J]

I WILL CUT YOU FOR PLACING MIRROR'S EDGE & VALKYRIA CHRONICLES SO LOW.

Fixed.

 

[JimiNutz]

So this month, I'm going to totally pretend the NPD's never happened. Just too painful. So I'll perform the forum equivalent of holding my hands to my ears and yelling "la la la" ignoring Nintendo Wii's undeserved (imo) success.

Here is VanMardigan's NPD results (based on each console's offerings for the non-Soccer mom crowd). Basically, what I think they DESERVE to sell based on what they offer for gamers this holiday season:

Xbox 360: 1.4 Million
DS: 1.2 Million
Ps3: 885k
PsP: 440k
Ps2: 402k
Wii: 127k

And the Top Ten games (based on their awesomeness, not the amount of minigames they can cram into a dvd):

1. Gears of War 2
2. Little Big Planet
3. Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
4. Left 4 Dead
5. Resistance 2
6. Rock Band 2
7. Mario Kart Wii
8. Call of Duty: World At War
9. Mirror's Edge
10. Wii Music (lulz, just kidding, its Valkria Chronicles)

So I'm going to reflect on my NPD's and what an awesome thing that is for gamers everywhere.

Best post in the thred so far (and I've spent almost 3 hours reading through most of it) :lol

 

[clav]

We're just correcting your slanted view of the situation. Are you saying your statement suddenly becomes valid even though all other data provided outside of NPD top 10s proves it wrong?

You wouldn't be the first one claiming stupid shit about the top 10 and getting banned for it. You want to get banned?

I thought saying that gets you banned...

The yay and nay is coming for the consoles, but isn't what software that drives the most revenue?

Then Sony isn't screwed then. Their software sales are probably not bad either if they are in the #11-30 slot.

 

[manueldelalas]

LTTP...

SONY's David Reeves: "five million are going to buy it (a PS3), whatever it is, even [if] it didn't have games, can any of you do that?"
Reggie: "Watch us do it"
*looks at November 2 million and at future December 3-4 millions*
Iwata: *laughs*

Seriously, I hope some gaffers are enjoying their crow. WTF, Wii 2 million, Wii Music and Guitar Hero revival, Wii Fit and Mario Kart destroying everything.
Also lol at L4D > R2...
I guess now we will say there are only 5 real games in the top ten (because people buy Mario Kart for the Wii wheel, Wii Play for the controller, Wii Fit for the balance board, Guitar Hero (which is now a non game) because of the guitar I guess, and Wii Music because they are assholes).

Funniest thing I have read here is the one about LBP charting for 35 days (more crow eating)
Also lol at Van Mardigan post... L4D still bigger than R2 :lol :lol

 

[Dunlop]

But why? If you ask me 1 power-house console and 1 family-friendly console is a fucking dream come true personally.
I fucking hate that there are 3 horses in this race, especially when 2 of them are producing almost identical fucking products - that's madness!

Just to use one example, if Sony and MS were not at each other's throats you would not be streaming DIVX directly from your PC.

The 360 has many features that the Wii doesn't, there would be no incentive to augment these features otherwise.

PS3 vs 360 helps the consumer as they are for the most part sharing the same games anyways. After the end of this year however I can see Sony just start to circle the wagons and ride it out. I really can't see what they can do to turn things around

 

[Bluemercury]

So this month, I'm going to totally pretend the NPD's never happened. Just too painful. So I'll perform the forum equivalent of holding my hands to my ears and yelling "la la la" ignoring Nintendo Wii's undeserved (imo) success.

Here is VanMardigan's NPD results (based on each console's offerings for the non-Soccer mom crowd). Basically, what I think they DESERVE to sell based on what they offer for gamers this holiday season:

Xbox 360: 1.4 Million
DS: 1.2 Million
Ps3: 885k
PsP: 440k
Ps2: 402k
Wii: 127k

And the Top Ten games (based on their awesomeness, not the amount of minigames they can cram into a dvd):

1. Gears of War 2
2. Little Big Planet
3. Banjo Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts
4. Left 4 Dead
5. Resistance 2
6. Rock Band 2
7. Mario Kart Wii
8. Call of Duty: World At War
9. Mirror's Edge
10. Wii Music (lulz, just kidding, its Valkria Chronicles)

So I'm going to reflect on my NPD's and what an awesome thing that is for gamers everywhere.

Go tell the third partys to do wii games and then you dont have to make up these lists....


Also why are pple talking about resistance 2 vs left4dead?i mean left4dead wins by default....since it has zombies.....and its a valve game.....and its actually great....

 

[Psychotext]

Best post in the thred so far (and I've spent almost 3 hours reading through most of it) :lol

Agreed, and sadly I've read every post. :lol

 

[Mantorok]

Just to use one example, if Sony and MS were not at each other's throats you would not be streaming DIVX directly from your PC.

The 360 has many features that the Wii doesn't, there would be no incentive to augment these features otherwise.

I dont' get it, I thought a 'games' console was for playing 'games', not streaming media..? Just because MS try and make you believe otherwise doesn't make it right.

I would much prefer companies to target their effort on producing the best hardware possible for games, the best controllers, for games, and the best dev kits...for....games!

 

[Nocebo]

I thought saying that gets you banned...

The yay and nay is coming for the consoles, but isn't what software that drives the most revenue?

Then Sony isn't screwed then. Their software sales are probably not bad either if they are in the #11-30 slot.

Warning people for bannings gets me banned now?

Anyway Sony's software sales probably aren't as bad as they seem from the top 10 that's for sure. But they're not that great either, which we know as we get additional data about that stuff from other sources, like I already mentioned. Same way we know Boomblox apparently still has more copies sold than Resistance 2 for instance.

Point is you don't know what the trail off is for items below 10 or even below 30 or below 50. Making blanket statements about small amounts of information without considering other factors is dangerous

 

[Dunlop]

LTTP...

SONY's David Reeves: "five million are going to buy it (a PS3), whatever it is, even [if] it didn't have games, can any of you do that?"
Reggie: "Watch us do it"
*looks at November 2 million and at future December 3-4 millions*
Iwata: *laughs*

Seriously, I hope some gaffers are enjoying their crow. WTF, Wii 2 million, Wii Music and Guitar Hero revival, Wii Fit and Mario Kart destroying everything.
Also lol at L4D > R2...
I guess now we will say there are only 5 real games in the top ten (because people buy Mario Kart for the Wii wheel, Wii Play for the controller, Wii Fit for the balance board, Guitar Hero (which is now a non game) because of the guitar I guess, and Wii Music because they are assholes).

Funniest thing I have read here is the one about LBP charting for 35 days (more crow eating)
Also lol at Van Mardigan post... L4D still bigger than R2 :lol :lol

/clap?

So you are happy that a game like Mario Kart which is just another sequel is "destroying" an original inovative title like LBP? At least WiiMusic is a new IP

This is not a diss on MK, I know it's fun as shit and I picked it up for my kids for X-mas.

 

[VanMardigan]

I dont' get it, I thought a 'games' console was for playing 'games', not streaming media..? Just because MS try and make you believe otherwise doesn't make it right.

I would much prefer companies to target their effort on producing the best hardware possible for games, the best controllers, for games, and the best dev kits...for....games!

Besides all that other functionality, MS is also beating the pants out of Nintendo when it comes to having quality games on their console. So X360/Ps3 owners get fantastic multimedia features AND better games than you Wii owners. It's not fair, because they also sell much better than Wii

Spoiler

in my personal NPD's published above

 

[afternoon delight]

Late to the party, love the reactions. I'm just glad Left 4 Dead is selling so damn well on 360, all the more incentive for hawesome DLC from Valve.

 

[manueldelalas]

/clap?

So you are happy that a game like Mario Kart which is just another sequel is "destroying" an original inovative title like LBP? At least WiiMusic is a new IP

This is not a diss on MK, I know it's fun as shit and I picked it up for my kids for X-mas.

Huh? where did I say that? trying to take me out of context, aren't you ?

Crow was too bitter? =P.

Seriously, I am just here for the (Iwata *laughs*.
I remember in past NPD everyone saying and discussing with me that LBP would surely chart in November because it was released for three days in October. And Wii Music charting adds so much to the injury, that it makes this one of the funniest NPDs this year.

And I see on the Wii list that of the five games, three are not innovative (MK, Wii Play (although it has it's ideas) and Guitar Hero (although MK was innovative in it's time)), and the other two are highly innovative, so I am not sad, I mentioned all five games, I don't know why you picked MK.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I, on the other hand, value the little sanity I have left, which is why I don't bother with achievements.

I just want you to know, that silently, without emoticon spamming inanity, some of us newer NeoGAF members look to comments like this as pinpricks of sanity in the grim cloak of madness.

 

[chico]

i must be one of the few persons left on the planet who never touched a wii controller...
impressive numbers!

 

[Dunlop]

I dont' get it, I thought a 'games' console was for playing 'games', not streaming media..? Just because MS try and make you believe otherwise doesn't make it right.

I would much prefer companies to target their effort on producing the best hardware possible for games, the best controllers, for games, and the best dev kits...for....games!

But why? For me now the Media Capabilities of my 360 and PS are more valuable than the games.

I actually have 2 360's. The second I use as a media extender and does not even use the controller, just the TV remote. I don't even have Netfilx (damn you CRTC).

People will buy the system just for these features and then eventually will buy the games, as long as they are at least breaking even then they just want you to get the box in you house.

I don't know why you picked MK.

It was in your post. But I haven't had coffee yet so I might have taken your post out of context ;P

/runs to Tim Horton's

 

[Erebus]

Does anyone know how many copies did LBP sell?

 

[Karma]

Total software sales - $1.45B
360 software sales - $408M
Playstation family software sales - $352M
Nintendo (Wii+DS) software sales - ~$690M

So Wii is probably the biggest player on the market followed closely by 360. Sony's marketshare is only 25% at the moment with the three platforms they support. Things do not look good for them.

Wow. Do we have the PS3s software number alone?

 

[mrklaw]

I think as a gaming forum we need to do what vanmardigan has done. simply judge each console on its particular merits, and those of the games it has availalbe for it. Sales shouldn't come into it.

 

[Mantorok]

But why?

Because the majority of people buy a console purely for the games.

 

[Wolves Evolve]

I think as a gaming forum we need to do what vanmardigan has done. simply judge each console on its particular merits, and those of the games it has availalbe for it. Sales shouldn't come into it.

Peace sells... but who's buying?

 

[WarpToken.com]

Shake ya money maker!

dude....is that LeBron?

 

[Saint Gregory]

Besides all that other functionality, MS is also beating the pants out of Nintendo when it comes to having quality games on their console. So X360/Ps3 owners get fantastic multimedia features AND better games than you Wii owners. It's not fair, because they also sell much better than Wii

Spoiler

in my personal NPD's published above

Your posts are starting to remind me of that Simpsons episode where Homer ate the insanity pepper :/

This has been the strangest few days on GAF that I can remeber. The 360 is doing fine, the PS3 has great games. I don't remember Xbox/Gamecube fans from last gen creating an alternate reality for themselves (except maybe Gahiddy).

 

[levious]

MS have, they're bundling in Viva Pinata Party Animals with 360 controllers. Anyway, we need numbers for the other games like Banjo, TOSDOTNW, LBP and such! The top 10 shows almost nothing of the whole industry!

and Sony has the Socom headset bundle, not quite the same but a similar good value.

 

[Mantorok]

I think as a gaming forum we need to do what vanmardigan has done. simply judge each console on its particular merits, and those of the games it has availalbe for it. Sales shouldn't come into it.

Isn't that a bit like relocating a fire?

 

[gkryhewy]

Besides all that other functionality, MS is also beating the pants out of Nintendo when it comes to having quality games on their console. So X360/Ps3 owners get fantastic multimedia features AND better games than you Wii owners. It's not fair, because they also sell much better than Wii

Spoiler

in my personal NPD's published above

You're too old for this shit, Riggs :lol

 

[Nocebo]

I think as a gaming forum we need to do what vanmardigan has done. simply judge each console on its particular merits, and those of the games it has availalbe for it. Sales shouldn't come into it.

Why? Are you suggesting we ditch sales threads all together?

 

[manueldelalas]

I wonder why MikeB hasn't posted anything.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Isn't that a bit like relocating a fire?

hahahaahaha nice.

 

[GameGamer]

They continue to spend resources on things like Playstation Home. Sure it is nice its free. I checked it out, and while it is a fun diversion chatting with random people and bowling, how much more function can it get? Do people really need another Facebook type service? How much money is virtual furniture and Diesel clothing going to earn? It just seems a bit cynical. Consumers are constantly looking for 1) games and 2) increased functionality at the best price

In the meantime 360 gets a Netflix service with NXE. I thought PS3 was the media hub? Sony owns tons of movie and music property and couldn't unite their divisions and tie these in?

Sony NEVER thought they would have to fight for it.


They assumed they would come out on top just by being the PlayStation.

 

[Dunlop]

Because the majority of people buy a console purely for the games.

says who?

I literally have not turned on my Wii in at least 3 months now, it will start getting used over the holiday as I got my kids a couple of games.

If the sytem had any other usages outside of games it might be getting used and in doing so be more on my mind and maybe make me more inclined to buy new games for it.

Because of my 360 and PS3, the media capabilities will be a deciding factor for me when purchasing a console in the next gen.

 

[Apharmd Battler]

Remember, remember, 2 million in November.

LMAO!! :lol

But seriously...the Wii numbers shook me to my soul. Good lord Nintendo!! Also kudos to XBox360, not a bad showing at all. And I'm SO glad that L4D sold well!! Now we might see some DLC console side..but that's another topic all together.

Recession....the grass is all green for Nintendo?!

Somebody need to post the "It Prints Money" .gif..........

 

[Jirotrom]

While this definitely has to be disturbing for Sony, there's no reason to say that "the 10 year plan seems to have PHAILed." If they really are aiming at a 10 year cycle for the PS3 as a priority, then of course they can suffer through the first half of that and hope to make up for it during the second half.

On another note, I can't believe that, excluding DS, the Wii sold more than every other console COMBINED this month. That is unbelievable.

10 year plan was probably originally PR speak, Im convinced on that. The thing is I truly believe now they have no choice but to follow that plan.

 

[Mantorok]

says who?

Well, and this is only a hunch, I imagine the number of people who own a games console with ZERO games is probably a siginificantly lesser number than those who don't.

Ya think?

 

[szaromir]

Wow. Do we have the PS3s software number alone?

Nope. They only gave away total units sold on PS3, which is 3.55M.
http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/...-year-to-date-growth-in-post-figures-release/

 

[Otrebor Nightmarecoat]

Holy Jebus those numbers are sick. Its good to be a gamer i guess. The pretending and console wars in this thread are pathetic and comedy gold. I love NPD <3

Valkiria and LBP deserve more sales. This list just proofs more than ever that the hardcore dont matter that much anymore.

 

[GameGamer]

Because of my 360 and PS3, the media capabilities will be a deciding factor for me when purchasing a console in the next gen.

Why not just extend your PC to your TV? Why the middle hardware?

 

[Apharmd Battler]

/thread

LMAO!! Good stuff!!

 

[Xisiqomelir]

Even w/o the hardcore games, you still have a lot of content. And many people are raving about the A level, B level and C level games. And I would argue that just because MS can get a million people to buy their game of the month, it doesn't improve the quality of their selection. That's always a funny slant to these number wrenching. The unspoken thought that 1.5 million people can buy Gears 2 or COD and they are good to great (playing COD, I can say it's suprisingly mediocre) but the throngs of people enjoying Wii are just picking up casual trash. COD is casual trash. Fun but nowhere near great. Can we seriously pick up a stick against Wii and not pick up a stick against COD? It's passable but not a great game. Is it just the casual hardcore demographic?

Call them hardlycores.

 

[Prine]

Is Wii Sports/Play a pack in game and is it counted as a unit sold on NPD?

I remember getting a game with my Wii some time ago but forgot what it was

 

[GameGamer]

10 year plan was probably originally PR speak, Im convinced on that. The thing is I truly believe now they have no choice but to follow that plan.

I think they said it for the movie studios.

If the studios loose faith in blu-ray, that's big trouble for the format.


Is the PS3 the best selling blu-ray player?