Support NeoGAF

[titiklabingapat]

Despite its title, "Wii Sports" is not real sports title. It is a party game. A casual game.

Seriously now . . . how many people at Operation Sports are talking about Wii Sports?

It is arguably alot closer to the sports games it represent than the sim ones that are, say, more "complex and deep".

Remind me again why it's okay to excuse MP3 with "four days of sales" but not these games.

MP actually did 200k.

The important question:

How many copies did Bioshock sell on PC?

77K, or so somebody said earlier in the thread. It shows you how irrelevant the PC market really is, especially to those who keeps combining the PS3+360+PC numbers to pad the HD console's userbase.

 

[titiklabingapat]

oops, two minute dp

 

[Sharp]

It is arguably alot closer to the sports games it represent than the sim ones that are, say, more "complex and deep".


MP actually did 200k.

I know, but they still only had like three freaking days. It's hard to judge sales with so little time on the market, especially for a stealth release like Lair's. I don't think they're going to do incredibly well, but the same standards should be applied regardless.

 

[stewacide]

No way am I trusting waggle to an online shooter, its just not precise enougth, I like the Wii controls for certain games but its no good for online FPS battles

Not precise enough? What on earth then is a dual-analog shooter?!?!?

MP3 is the best controlling first-person game I've ever played and that includes PC mouse-and-keyboard (being able to move with an analog stick, as opposed to digital 4-way WASD, is a significant if under-appreciated upgrade)

 

[legend166]

Guys, someone needs to respond to my awesome theory ;(

 

[titiklabingapat]

Not precise enough? What on earth then is a dual-analog shooter?!?!?

MP3 is the best controlling first-person game I've ever played and that includes PC mouse-and-keyboard (being able to move with an analog stick, as opposed to digital 4-way WASD, is a significant if under-appreciated upgrade)

Pandora's coochie.

Opened.

 

[Evlar]

I know, but they still only had like three freaking days. It's hard to judge sales with so little time on the market, especially for a stealth release like Lair's. I don't think they're going to do incredibly well, but the same standards should be applied regardless.

This is true, I suppose we should wait for next month (but I'm not expecting much for Lair). It'll be forgotten by then, too: we'll all be too busy creaming, screaming, or crying over Halo 3.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Guys, someone needs to respond to my awesome theory ;(

Nintendo=No room for anyone but Capcom and Square.

There

 

[Fragamemnon]

Steam. Also Europe.

The most sobering thing in these sales threads today for me was the PC numbers. Bioshock at 77k-even assuming Steam got 10-15% more (being generous there) sales that were not counted, that's not a very strong showing. You can't even blame piracy, either-the game wasn't cracked until September, by my understanding.

I know the PC is bigger in Europe, but man if a game like Bioshock can't get above 100k on the PC in the US when the Xbox360 version flirts five times that number , I don't see that as a particularly healthy number at all.

 

[Sharp]

Not precise enough? What on earth then is a dual-analog shooter?!?!?

MP3 is the best controlling first-person game I've ever played and that includes PC mouse-and-keyboard (being able to move with an analog stick, as opposed to digital 4-way WASD, is a significant if under-appreciated upgrade)

For all but a tiny number of people (the sort who speedrun Mario 64), mouse-look is more precise than analog control could ever be, unless you think being able to move forward slowly in a fast-paced first person shooter gives you some sort of advantage. Which I suppose is possible.

 

[ari]

great sells for wii like always, but i guess xbox 360 will have a massive gain after halo 3

 

[titiklabingapat]

Nintendo=No room for anyone but Capcom and Square.

There

Well, the PsS supported more and with EA basically getting slaughtered, I think there is still some room there for the smaller publishing houses, like Atlus, MMV and Level 5

And it's launch, not lunch. >.>

 

[Mindlog]

You don't need analog f/b strafe.

You DO need responsive fast analog horizontal.

There is the possibility of analog horizontal + independent aiming, but the device makers aren't thinking it through properly >:x

 

[Sharp]

The most sobering thing in these sales threads today for me was the PC numbers. Bioshock at 77k-even assuming Steam got 10-15% more (being generous there) sales that were not counted, that's not a very strong showing. You can't even blame piracy, either-the game wasn't cracked until September, by my understanding.

I know the PC is bigger in Europe, but man if a game like Bioshock can't get above 100k on the PC in the US when the Xbox360 version flirts five times that number , I don't see that as a particularly healthy number at all.

Well, System Shock 2 didn't do all that well either at first, and there was a lot of bad press about the PC version of Bioshock. PC gamers tend to be fairly savvy about that sort of thing and I think it pushed a lot of people over the edge (to wait for the cracked version, that is). There are definitely PC games that do very well, even if Bioshock isn't one of them, and I for one will be buying a copy next month.

 

[Slavik81]

For a game to sell well, on any platform, it needs atleast two of the following:

1. Quality
2. Well known brand
3. Marketing

For example, a game like Bioshock. It has quality in spades. From what I've seen in Australia, it's also had a decent amount of marketing. Therefore it sells well.

A title like Mario Party 8 is a well known brand, and it had a lot of marketing. Those two things make up for the lack of quality (I haven't played the game, just going off the internet consensus. Therefore, it's going to sell well.

On the other hand, Boogie. Marketed like crazy, but it's a piece of garbage and is not a well known brand name. Something like Okami, has a lot of quality, but no marketing and no brand name, Therefore, it sells crap.

Oversimplified, but brilliant nonetheless.

 

[RBH]

PS3 Lair = 46.5K
Warhawk w/headset= 58.6K
Blue Dragon = 53.6K

Honestly, considering that Lair had a stealth release and Warhawk is available on PSN as well, I think those titles performed decently considering the circumstances.

Shame about Blue Dragon though. It was just placed in a bad release date after Bioshock, and the game got virtually no marketing push at all from MS. At least they'll probably be able to pass their goal of 200,000 sales though.

 

[Xenon]

Like 77k or something. Someone posted it earlier in the thread. Top selling PC game of the month!

Holy shit, that is with $10 less per unit. The total of just the $10 extra on the 360 version($4,901,00) > Total PC sales($3,850,000)

 

[Tzeentch]

There are a LOT of people that have yet to buy a 360, and will get one for Halo 3. I just have a very hard time believing that they will all do it in September (I have several close friends that have not jumped in, but don't have the ready cash and are waiting for holidays). The ambient buzz from all the community features in Halo 3 I suspect will have a ripple effect as well - but it's not going to be shifting tens of thousands of $300 game consoles in this economy.

I expect a nice bump to 360 sales for the next few months as people scrape up the cash to trade up. It would be interesting, but probably a fluke, if hardware overtook Wii next month.

The PS3 .. I don't know what they can do despite having some killer apps in the future and some very compelling technical features. The actual brand is still very strong and I hear people on campus say "the PS3 has better graphics" all the time - but the cost and very negative fallout from overhyped games is causing them a lot of problems. The XBOX has also invaded the public consciousness and displaced "Playstation" as the generic term for "game machine", see its appearance in everything from "Knocked Up" to Halo being mentioned in Wierd Al songs.

 

[Mgoblue201]

What's scary is that this year's Wii Madden sales might not even surpass last year's version despite coming out three months earlier and having a bigger user base to work with. Even the PS3 version increased. Either the honeymoon is over and the novelty has worn off, or the Wii version has no capacity to sell to the real Madden crowd and the people who are looking for a different Madden experience are few, so we won't see sales climbing year after year. There's always the crazy chance that it has good legs, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[Evlar]

I'm not going to get into the MP3 controls debate more than to say this: I have completed MP3 on Veteran, and I'm a fairly capable Halo 2 player. If I were somehow magically able to use the MP3 control scheme in Halo 2 multiplayer, and if I were playing against a doppleganger of myself using my standard Halo 2 controls, I'm pretty sure that using the Wii controls I'd be able to kick my own ass. Even if the dual-analog controls used auto-aim. If auto-aim were turned off it would be no contest.

 

[mr_bishiuk]

because he's trolling the 360. you'll have to learn how to deal with it

I have learnt the lesson, one rule for some one rule for others

 

[titiklabingapat]

Honestly, considering that Lair had a stealth release and Warhawk is available on PSN as well, I think those titles performed decently considering the circumstances.

Shame about Blue Dragon though. It was just placed in a bad release date after Bioshock, and the game got virtually no marketing push at all from MS. At least they'll probably be able to pass their goal of 200,000 sales though.

How much was Blue Dragon's budget?

 

[Ether_Snake]

Well, the PsS supported more and with EA basically getting slaughtered, I think there is still some room there for the smaller publishing houses, like Atlus, MMV and Level 5

And it's launch, not lunch. >.>

Yeah I always type lunch for some reason. English isn't my first language!

 

[titiklabingapat]

Yeah I always type lunch for some reason. English isn't my first language!

It's not mine either. I thought you were just doing it on purpose

 

[Slavik81]

You don't need analog f/b strafe.
You DO need responsive fast analog horizontal.

Analog movement leaves more room for error. It is smoother, though.

 

[Phife Dawg]

I have not played Prime 3, but dont you need a lockon method for an FPS to really work with the Wiimote? I can see that working fine with certain games, but with competitive games like Halo and Call of Duty, it completely takes the point out of the games.

You mean like auto/sticky aim?

If you want to play a true skill-based FPS look no further than Quake or UT.

MP3 is an action adventure, you don't want to make the action part too skill dependent in those (Zelda's combat is another example). From what we know the first competitive FPS for Wii: MoH2 has no lock-on and no auto/sticky aim.

 

[C4Lukins]

The most sobering thing in these sales threads today for me was the PC numbers. Bioshock at 77k-even assuming Steam got 10-15% more (being generous there) sales that were not counted, that's not a very strong showing. You can't even blame piracy, either-the game wasn't cracked until September, by my understanding.

I know the PC is bigger in Europe, but man if a game like Bioshock can't get above 100k on the PC in the US when the Xbox360 version flirts five times that number , I don't see that as a particularly healthy number at all.

No kidding, I was really suprised by that. Of course the 360 version was going to do better with the way things have been going, but I expected the PC version to at least register. I have not been keeping up with PC sales because I am finally upgrading this year for Spore, Starcraft, and Crysis but how are the bigger games that are not WOW and Sims selling these days? Are games like Oblivion, Guild Wars and Company of Heroes at least getting near the million mark?

 

[Sharp]

No kidding, I was really suprised by that. Of course the 360 version was going to do better with the way things have been going, but I expected the PC version to at least register. I have not been keeping up with PC sales because I am finally upgrading this year for Spore, Starcraft, and Crysis but how are the bigger games that are not WOW and Sims selling these days? Are games like Oblivion, Guild Wars and Company of Heroes at least getting near the million mark?

Worldwide, they are. And if I had to guess I'd say Spore hits a million easily, though piracy might make me eat my words.

 

[Slavik81]

Are games like Oblivion, Guild Wars and Company of Heroes at least getting near the million mark?

I'm unsure about the rest but Guild Wars is at 3-4 million copies sold across the three campaigns.

 

[Evlar]

Worldwide, they are. And if I had to guess I'd say Spore hits a million easily, though piracy might make me eat my words.

Spore will probably follow a whole different set of rules. PC will dominate unless EA is putting much, much more effort into the console ports than they ever did for The Sims.

 

[Green Shinobi]

I get the feeling that Blue Dragon would have sold more copies had it not released right after Bioshock. Honestly, bumping up Blue Dragon's release just one month would have done wonders for its sales, putting it right after The Darkness and right before Bioshock. I know I would have purchased it.

 

[Xenon]

Worldwide, they are. And if I had to guess I'd say Spore hits a million easily, though piracy might make me eat my words.

Considering how important the online community is going to be for Spore they would be fools not to put some kind of key access for the game.

 

[Sharp]

I get the feeling that Blue Dragon would have sold more copies had it not released right after Bioshock. Honestly, bumping up Blue Dragon's release just one month would have done wonders for its sales, putting it right after The Darkness and right before Bioshock. I know I would have purchased it.

Man, it wasn't that long ago when everyone was saying things the other way around--Take Two should have bumped Bioshock to 2008.

Oh, and I'm sure EA will handle Spore fine. Will Wright is by far their most important asset, at least in my eyes; they actually have a division created wholly for Sims stuff. No other PC game has had that kind of impact, and probably never will.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Important to note as well that Bioshock was the best selling game of the month at 77k. The PC market is more hurt than I'd realized.

 

[Evlar]

Important to note as well that Bioshock was the best selling game of the month at 77k. The PC market is more hurt than I'd realized.

Everyone's just sitting around waiting for the next WoW expansion.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Everyone's just sitting around waiting for the next WoW expansion.

Didn't the last expansion come out not to long ago?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Everyone's just sitting around waiting for the next WoW expansion.

While this is an oversimplification, it's generally true, I think. The market has turned to MMOs and sim games with precious little room for big budget anything else.

 

[Green Shinobi]

Man, it wasn't that long ago when everyone was saying things the other way around--Take Two should have bumped Bioshock to 2008.

I laughed at those predictions when they were first made, and I'm laughing at them now. I think IGN's exact quote was "Bioshock will be a Bioflop."

Along with Jeremy Dunham's prediction that the PS3 would surpass the 360 in userbase by December 31st, that was easily the most ridiculous prediction people could have made. An RPG/shooter with killer graphics on a console with a userbase that digs shooters, digs (adult Western type) RPGs and digs killer graphics? Then the greatest demo of all time just cemented the deal.

 

[Sharp]

Didn't the last expansion come out not to long ago?

Yeah, and it dominated. Don't even try to comprehend the enormity of WoW sales--Blizzard could single-handedly keep the PC gaming industry afloat with just their three franchises. It's a little frightening really.

 

[Evlar]

I laughed at those predictions when they were first made, and I'm laughing at them now. I think IGN's exact quote was "Bioshock will be a Bioflop."

Along with Jeremy Dunham's prediction that the PS3 would surpass the 360 in userbase by December 31st, that was easily the most ridiculous prediction people could have made. An RPG/shooter with killer graphics on a console with a userbase that digs shooters, digs (adult Western type) RPGs and digs killer graphics? Then the greatest demo of all time just cemented the deal.

More than all that, or in addition to it, Bioshock is horror. I'm shocked at how poorly the horror genre was represented on the machine. There's a market not being served.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

This is probably going to sound insane, but I think it's possible that the Wii won't sell it's shipment this month. I mean, there's got to be a saturation point somewhere for hype, hasn't there? If MS spends enough cash on marketing I could see the general public forgetting about the Wii for a few weeks.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Didn't the last expansion come out not to long ago?

Yes! It's #2. And WoW itself is #3.

 

[Cryect]

Important to note as well that Bioshock was the best selling game of the month at 77k. The PC market is more hurt than I'd realized.

Or Steam is quite popular.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Or Steam is quite popular.

I guess that could be the case for the games that are on there. But that doesn't explain why the overall market is so weak.

 

[Eteric Rice]

Yes! It's #2. And WoW itself is #3.

Why does this sound like that period of time in EverQuest where Sony released an expansion every four months and pissed off their fanbase?

Because I mean, it sounds really similar.

 

[JDSN]

This is probably going to sound insane, but I think it's possible that the Wii won't sell it's shipment this month. I mean, there's got to be a saturation point somewhere for hype, hasn't there? If MS spends enough cash on marketing I could see the general public forgetting about the Wii for a few weeks.

Yeah, it does sound insane.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Why does this sound like that period of time in EverQuest where Sony released an expansion every four months and pissed off their fanbase?

Because I mean, it sounds really similar.

I think Blizzard's actually showing remarkable restraint. FFXI-esque, actually.

 

[AlteredBeast]

This is probably going to sound insane, but I think it's possible that the Wii won't sell it's shipment this month. I mean, there's got to be a saturation point somewhere for hype, hasn't there? If MS spends enough cash on marketing I could see the general public forgetting about the Wii for a few weeks.

Saturation will not come before 2008...if even then.

 

[Green Shinobi]

This is probably going to sound insane, but I think it's possible that the Wii won't sell it's shipment this month. I mean, there's got to be a saturation point somewhere for hype, hasn't there? If MS spends enough cash on marketing I could see the general public forgetting about the Wii for a few weeks.

I sell phones for Verizon. Anyway, yesterday a middle-aged couple came in to do their upgrade. The wife was a schoolteacher, and she mentioned that she wanted to stop by the Gamestop several doors down from our store to see if they had a Wii she could get for her class.

I asked her what she thought of the Wii, and she said that they got one for their house and they all loved it. Turns out the husband loves it just as much and couldn't stop playing it.

The Wii is taking gaming to people who probably never picked up a controller before in their lives. I didn't realize it before, but after seeing that, I'm convinced that Nintendo really is expanding the market.

 

[C4Lukins]

You mean like auto/sticky aim?

If you want to play a true skill-based FPS look no further than Quake or UT.

MP3 is an action adventure, you don't want to make the action part too skill dependent in those (Zelda's combat is another example). From what we know the first competitive FPS for Wii: MoH2 has no lock-on and no auto/sticky aim.

Exactly, which was why I was making the point that it works with a game like Metroid. It works for a certain type of experience, but the method does not apply to all FPS games.

Typically it is a convention you use in 3rd person games with a controllable camera, where it is difficult to aim, strafe, shoot and adjust the camera all at the same. It would require using two analog sticks, (using the PS2 controller for example), R1 and L1, and R2 to do that. So lock on makes it infinitely easier because it takes away the need to adjust the camera.

The Metroid series had similar constraints because of the Gamecube controller which did not have a fully functional second analog stick, and really it is much closer to a 3rd person shooter/adventure game with a forced first person view. The same applies with the Wiimote where you cannot effectively control your character, aim, and shoot without some sort of lock on mechanism. That works great if the gameplay is built around it, but with the majority of first person shooters like COD it does not make a lot of sense. It is a different experience. I was just taking issue with the idea that the Wiimote is automatically a better control mechanism for FPS games.