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[Masklinn]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything innovative about the PS3 hardware (and I own one).

Well re the CPU they were innovatively reamed by IBM who got them to foot the bill for an extremely good asymetric server/simu chip with very high raw power, but not that fit for a gaming console and a pain to code for.

Other than that, there's nothing innovative about the console indeed.

 

[Parl]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything innovative about the PS3 hardware (and I own one).

They're more technological innovations with processing and stuff, although in value terms, it's only an evolution in graphics, physics, animations, etc, so no innovations in that sense.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see anything innovative about the PS3 hardware (and I own one).

You're begging for some Killzone 2 gifs!

For what it's worth everything on the PS3 I've seen could be done on the 360 especially something like Metal Gear 4. Perhaps Killzone 2 is the game that changes that. I won't overly come down on either side of that question until I play it. But even if it is, the game system with the best graphics isn't a pre-requisite for the most enjoyable console. I would think last gen proved that.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

There is where the exclusives come in. MS can milk Gears and Halo to some extent, but the PS3 is doing great in that department.

Don't be me wrong. I love Uncharted and MGS; plus I don't want to get into ListwarsTM. But you need to stop pretending like your biased opinion is fact. Thanks.

 

[Beer Monkey]

A sinking ship would be selling less YoY. This was not the case.

While I agree that PS3 is not a sinking ship, comparing Q4 this year to Q4 last year is a lot more meaningful than YoY. PS3 sales suck and there is no spinning it.

 

[Saint Gregory]

They didn't have competitive publisher support.

The publishing landscape, and the overall situation has changed enough that the "3rd placer" can still enjoy strong and competitive publisher support.

That's new.

Right now the major justification you have as a publisher for funding an HD game is that you can port it to 360/PS3/PC. I guess if you're only a PS3 owner there is some comfort in knowing that you'll have a steady diet of multiplatform titles coming your way until the end of the gen but as an owner of both HD consoles I wish there were more 3rd party exclusives that took adavtage of each consoles strengths instead of getting the lowest common denominator between the two.

 

[Masklinn]

LOL "inferior cousin"... once again you show how you are stuck in 2006. The X360 has gained some popularity compared to the Xbox1, but it's no PS2 replacement.

Captain obvious is that you? The PS2 replacement is the Wii, like it or not.

And for the vast majority of the potential (HD) audience (so those who don't have a console yet and might consider buying an HD one), the PS3 is seen as an inferior cousin to the 360, once again like it or not.

 

[RSTEIN]

Wat?

Pretty self explanatory.

WTF? More hardware power != innovation.

I never said they were equal to each other.

The 360 chip is 3 PPE. The same PPE that you can find in the Cell.

You should read a certain book.

Dude, you should stop, the wii has the most innovative (general purpose) controls peripheral of the generation...

I never said anything about peripherals.

 

[Tobor]

Bulla meltdowns are always so exciting. It's like watching a stuntman covered in flame gel flail about wildly.

 

[onipex]

The PS3 is not the GameCube it is the N64.

Years from now we will hear of some secrete deal between Nintendo and Sony where Nintendo was going to make a wand controller for the PS2. Sony backed out the deal and instead made a deal to develop Blu-Ray. Nintendo went on to develop the Wii.

The PS3 became very expensive to develop for because of it's power.
The console suffered from delays of big games.
The gaming press laughed at Nintendo for trying to stay in the game space that Sony owned.
Playstation is gaming and brand name is very important in gaming.

Sony launched with the first standard motion controlled game device and Nintendo stole the idea to make a duel motion controller.
Gamers kept hoping that the big name PS3 games or price cut would put the console back on top.
People waited for those PS2 gamers to buy the PS3 just like they waited for the SNES gamers that never saved the N64.

There was hope that the PSP gamers would save the day too,but GBA never saved the GameCube.


Besides the stuff I made up it is all very similar, so PS3=N64. The games will be enjoyed and it will sell ok.

 

[Masklinn]

I never said they were equal to each other.

That's the only evolution the PS3 has over the previous generation. If you're not saying that more power == innovation, then there's no innovation to be found in the PS3, I'm sorry to report.

I never said anything about peripherals.

That's the only place where there's been any innovation this generation. So if you're not talking about the controls, I once again fail to see what innovation you're trying to talk about. You might try to spell out what constitutes innovation in the PS3, for a change.

 

[Bulla564]

The thing you don't seem to understand is:
The console without blu-ray, without a hard drive, without high-def, and with the worst online is killing the competition
.

I see it as the cheapest at launch, most family-oriented, appealing to the HUGE kids/female market, and with the most novelty... it was well poised to lead the video game market (not in the eyes of us hardcore gamers of course).

 

[Balb]

The PS3 is not the GameCube it is the N64.

Years from now we will hear of some secrete deal between Nintendo and Sony where Nintendo was going to make a wand controller for the PS2. Sony backed out the deal and instead made a deal to develop Blu-Ray. Nintendo went on to develop the Wii.

The PS3 became very expensive to develop for because of it's power.
The console suffered from delays of big games.
The gaming press laughed at Nintendo for trying to stay in the game space that Sony owned.
Playstation is gaming and brand name is very important in gaming.

Sony launched with the first standard motion controlled game device and Nintendo stole the idea.
Gamers kept hoping that the big name PS3 games or price cut would put the console back on top.
People waited for those PS2 gamers to buy the PS3 just like they waited for the SNES gamers that never saved the N64.

There was hope that the PSP gamers would save the day too,but GBA never saved the GameCube.


Besides the stuff I made up it is all very similar, so PS3=N64. The games will be enjoyed and it will sell ok.

I wouldn't consider them the same at all. The N64 was almost completely supported by Nintendo and Rare (but damn they did a good job) with little third party support, whereas the PS3 gets third party games by default.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Could you please explain to me what this is again?

Average ownership is meant to be considered along with other numbers we often see consoles described with, like their LTD hardware sales and tie ratios. I assume the average system in each month was bought in the middle, so each December system counts for half a month (2.5 weeks this month). Each November system counts for 1.5 months (7 weeks this month) and so on. From this we can get a sum of total ownership. Then divide by the current userbase, and we can see about how long the average user of each console has had theirs.

This helps to clear up some of the differences in things like software sales. After May 2008, Wii and X360 had approximately the same userbase in the US. It probably instinctually makes sense that since X360 had been out much longer it would have higher software sales even if buying patterns on the two systems were identical. What I try to do is quantify that difference.

For what it's worth, here's what my spreadsheet has as the current total ownership for each of the three current consoles:
X360: 986 million weeks
Wii: 764 million weeks
PS3: 336 million weeks

 

[Deku]

DS. System of the generation, handheld of the forever! BOOYAH

Close 2nd to PS2 on the 'forever' category. But very much the best of this generation.

 

[Bulla564]

Bulla meltdowns are always so exciting. It's like watching a stuntman covered in flame gel flail about wildly.

If I don't have melt-downs debating with thick-headed evolutionists, I don't think talking about the positive outlook of the PS3 will do it.

 

[gofreak]

Right now the major justification you have as a publisher for funding an HD game is that you can port it to 360/PS3/PC. I guess if you're only a PS3 owner there is some comfort in knowing that you'll have a steady diet of multiplatform titles coming your way until the end of the gen but as an owner of both HD consoles I wish there were more 3rd party exclusives that took adavtage of each consoles strengths instead of getting the lowest common denominator between the two.

While I can appreciate that POV, as long as the HD market continues to split into multiple large chunks as it is now, that's not very realistic.

PC/360/PS3 are mutually reinforcing each other as attractive platforms for third party pubs. If any of them were stuck on their own and isolated, any of them would probably suffer for it (perhaps 360 less than the other two..but still, it would suffer too).

Besides the stuff I made up it is all very similar, so PS3=N64. The games will be enjoyed and it will sell ok.

Publisher support is again a massive element in the quality of the experience for an owner of a system, and again it's overlooked..none of these analogies 'fit'. This generation is very different, these sorts of comparisons aren't very useful..

 

[Masklinn]

thick-headed evolutionists

Well that explains a lot about you and your opinion.

You might want to put that post in your sig, to warn people.

 

[donny2112]

the ps3's YTD increased by a healthy amount over 2008 so fortunately ps3's future is not nearly as bleak as you'd like it to be.

Notice how PS3 Year 3 is above PS3 Year 2 for every month until the yoy comparisons include the price drop? That is both why PS3 is up in 2008 vs. 2007 and why people are saying it isn't as rosy an outlook as just looking at the total annual sales could indicate.

A pool full of wonderful, wonderful games

I think most reasonably thinking people can see where GC analogies fall apart.

That part of the analogy fits perfectly into place, though.

I don't bother to read Japan sales threads, do Xbox fans make similar comments in those?

"5k 360s sold is not bad... and don't forget about the US!"

Not for long. They either wisen up due to the weekly reminder that it is a Japanese sales thread, or they go off the deep end and get a ban. Worldwide and U.S. sales are definitely discussed from time to time but usually not in that manner.

I think it's pretty close to the GBA. It's a combination of a SNES with its own line of awesome games.

D:

Welcome to GAF.

You do realize that you're talking to the author of GAF for Dummies, right?

By the 5th year, the PS3 will be comparable to the PS2 in terms of line-up.

You realize that's impossible, right? Are you even aware of what the "lineup" on the PS2 was? By sheer volume alone your statement is impossible.

A sinking ship would be selling less YoY. This was not the case.

It was once months where the price was the same between the two years came around. I'm not saying the PS3 is a "sinking ship," but only looking at the overall 2008 picture while ignoring the last two months of the year is disingenuous.

 

[DevelopmentArrested]

If I don't have melt-downs debating with thick-headed evolutionists, I don't think talking about the positive outlook of the PS3 will do it.

What does God say about the future of the PS3? :lol

 

[Pureauthor]

I agree. People were willing to pay $600, and now $400 for what the PS3 is offering. It's a hefty price to pay on a console's 3rd year, but the line-up calls for it. Now consider how elastic the video game market is, and the sales are not so surprising.

Yes. The sales are not surprising. The sales are also atrocious. You don't seem to be getting this.

A sinking ship would be selling less YoY. This was not the case.

Is that so? Remember that the reason the PS3 started off strong this year was because of a price cut from last year. Once the effect of the cut faded, Sony has shown that the PS3 is selling weaker in the same months as last year.

LOL "inferior cousin"... once again you show how you are stuck in 2006. The X360 has gained some popularity compared to the Xbox1, but it's no PS2 replacement. I replaced 'loosing' with GREAT because a high price (which will be eliminated with time) is what is causing the PS3 to have a different perception from the PS2. Once that is gone, they will both be great consoles that appeal to a lot of people.

As of 2008 - the X360 has gained an additional 2 million console lead over the PS3 from its initial 6 million lead. Furthermore it has, going by all known data, outsold the PS3 as of YTD.

And the PS3 already has a different perception from the PS2. PS2 was undisputed champion of its day. PS3 is... well, a disaster.

Exactly, since you DON'T know how they are supposed to sell, nor how much it IS or ISN'T helping the PS3, spare us.

Even if every single PS3 sales in December was attributed to Blu-Ray 'helping' the PS3, it still sold a terrible 800K units in December. Hence the fact that Blu-Ray is not helping the PS3 out of its pit.

Nintendo, sure. MS, not so much.

I'm pretty sure MS is in a much better position to eat losses than Sony is. Especially since MS is pretty determined to keep SOny from dominating the living room.

Hey buddy... they are BOTH reliable for 3rd parties, which is why nobody is jumping ship. 3rd parties can count on equal or better sales/userbase on the PS3.

...Equal sales. You can say the PS3 offers equal sales for 3rd parties to the X360 in this very NPD thread.

There is where the exclusives come in. MS can milk Gears and Halo to some extent, but the PS3 is doing great in that department.

Gears 2 shipped/sold 4 million WW in half the time it took Gears 1. How's Sony's big holiday exclusive doing?

I'd love to have access to Sony's numbers and projections too.

This has nothing to do with what I said. If you believe the PS3 has reason to rise in fortunes, prove it. In detail.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

PS3 can't compare either with the GC or N64, there are many significative differences, the most notable one is the third party support is way better on PS3.

 

[onipex]

I wouldn't consider them the same at all. The N64 was almost completely supported by Nintendo and Rare (but damn they did a good job) with little third party support, whereas the PS3 gets third party games by default.

It had third party support at the start , but the delays, cost of development and treatment of publishers lost most of it.

Besides that I still think it has more in common with the N64.

 

[Tobor]

If I don't have melt-downs debating with thick-headed evolutionists, I don't think talking about the positive outlook of the PS3 will do it.

Never change, Bulla. :lol

Also, ships don't sink yoy, by the way. Nov - Dec 2008 = a large iceberg.

 

[manueldelalas]

Hey buddy... they are BOTH reliable for 3rd parties, which is why nobody is jumping ship. 3rd parties can count on equal or better sales/userbase on the PS3.

:lol

The PS3 sales are bad and their sales/user base ratio is the worst of the three consoles, this with the last info we got, GTA4 is the only multiplatform PS3 I remember having a better ratio on PS3 than the Xbox 360.

Still, AFAIK Software Ratio is like this: 360>>Wii>PS3 or 8.1>>5.3>5.2.

If you have some information saying otherwise please tell us your source.

 

[Pureauthor]

If I don't have melt-downs debating with thick-headed evolutionists, I don't think talking about the positive outlook of the PS3 will do it.

What.

The.

Eff.

 

[Evlar]

Did the MS spin give any indication of the ratio of units sold among the various SKUs?

 

[gofreak]

That part of the analogy fits perfectly into place, though.

Again..publisher coverage..

If you only own a PS3, you're not missing much in terms of third party coverage (w.r.t their HD stuff).

If you only owned a GC or N64, you missed a LOT.

 

[Tobor]

What.

The.

Eff.

You see what I mean? Stuntman. Flames. Flailing.

 

[LCfiner]

I wonder how many months or years Bulla had to save up to get that PS3? It must have taken years of brutal labor. And finally, he was rewarded with his PS3.

There's no other explanation for why he is so ridiculously invested in the future success of the platform.

Give it up, Bulla! The PS3 is in last place this gen and it's not changing! it doesn't mean you wasted your money! Step away from the keyboard!

 

[Masklinn]

PS3 can't compare either with the GC or N64, there are many significative differences, the most notable one is the third party support is way better on PS3.

But it's mostly shared with the 360 (which, again, tends to do notably better on multiplat stuff), and there's far less first-party support.

 

[Christine]

I've got to say that I didn't expect anyone to deny evolution in the NPD thread.

 

[Relaxed Muscle]

But it's mostly shared with the 360 (which, again, tends to do notably better on multiplat stuff), and there's far less first-party support.

Yeah, the amount of multiplatform titles is way more big this gen that other gens, but that dosn't change the fact the publishers still support the PS3, even if the're ports, GC missed too a great bunch of multiplatform titles that appeared on both PS2 and Xbox. And about the first-party support I dissagree, Sony first-party stuff on PS3 it's abundant and it's quality stuff, dosn't reach Nintendo level on N64 but it does reach the level on GC.

 

[ElyrionX]

Just like someone else said earlier, it's like 2007 all over again.

WAIT FOR NEXT YEAR PEOPLE! THE YEAR OF THE PS3!!1 MGS4!! BELIEVE!!!

Just replace MGS4 with KZ2 and you're good to go.

 

[cedric69]

That's the only place where there's been any innovation this generation. So if you're not talking about the controls, I once again fail to see what innovation you're trying to talk about. You might try to spell out what constitutes innovation in the PS3, for a change.

This is discounting *all* that MS has done on Live. And I feel it's pretty naive to be doing that.
While I don't buy their "it's a new system every year" crap, some of the things they have done have been pretty innovative, even more so in the console space.

 

[levious]

I've got to say that I didn't expect anyone to deny evolution in the NPD thread.

at least it makes sense now

 

[Tobor]

I've got to say that I didn't expect anyone to deny evolution in the NPD thread.

The PS3 sprung fully formed from the mind of Kutaragi. It cannot be forsaken.

 

[gofreak]

:lol

The PS3 sales are bad and their sales/user base ratio is the worst of the three consoles, this with the last info we got, GTA4 is the only multiplatform PS3 I remember having a better ratio on PS3 than the Xbox 360.

I thought there were a couple of others, that this was said of around the time of their launches at least (e.g. DMC4..?)

Thing is, in absolute terms between 360 and PS3, we're right back to where we were at the end of 2007. Around an 8m gap.

One or other outsold the other overall in 2008 by some small amount. (There's a gap of just 500k not factoring in Europe). Just as we pondered which of the two edged the other out at the end of 2007, here we are again.

The thing is, as far as software sales go, if the absolute size of the gap remains static, then PS3's relative software performance can only continue to improve dramatically as the userbases grow. It was an 8m lead over a userbase of 10m or whatever. Now it's 8m over a userbase of 20m.

PS3 did much better for third parties in 08 than in 07. It's been 'enough' as is to keep their support, and if 360's lead continues to shrink relative to the overall size of the userbases (i.e. if they 'just' continue to maintain that year one lead), ps3 will continue to improve its performance relative to 360 on software sales, and third parties should be increasingly happy with it.

I think MS has a chance to actually grow their lead a little bit in the first half of this year. But if Sony price drops in the second half, they may well recover some of the relative performance they saw in the first half of 08. Price drops certainly did miracles for MS in the last 4 months of 08 - after 8 months of pretty consistently losing momentum to PS3 - Sony will be hoping for the same.

 

[Kasumi1970]

fanboys like Bulla564 make me want to sell my PS3 and get a wii to go along with my 360

 

[Masklinn]

This is discounting *all* that MS has done on Live. And I feel it's pretty naive to be doing that.

Now that's interesting, and you're talking about something I hadn't, in fact, considered (not having tried it, I'm a PC gamer at the core).

Thanks for reminding me.

It's not a PS3 innovation though, so I'm still waiting for these.

 

[donny2112]

Again..publisher coverage..

If you only own a PS3, you're not missing much in terms of third party coverage (w.r.t their HD stuff).

Granted but my statement was only referring to the "pool full of wonderful, wonderful games" part.

 

[Francias Castiglione]

The PS3 sprung fully formed from the mind of Kutaragi. It cannot be forsaken.

:lol

I'm just imagining Kutaragi racing to work on the back of a velociraptor clutching his new offspring.

 

[cedric69]

There is where the exclusives come in. MS can milk Gears and Halo to some extent, but the PS3 is doing great in that department.

Ok, I feed you some.

They are doing great?!? Yeah, Resistance 2 and LBP set the whole world on fire. Too bad I as asleep and didn't notice it. :lol

 

[le.phat]

fanboys like Bulla564 make me want to sell my PS3 and get a wii to go along with my 360

such a statement makes you just as big a fanboy as he is really.

 

[manueldelalas]

I thought there were a couple of others, that this was said of around the time of their launches at least (e.g. DMC4..?)

Thing is, in absolute terms between 360 and PS3, we're right back to where we were at the end of 2007. Around an 8m gap.

One or other outsold the other overall in 2008 by some small amount. (There's a gap of just 500k not factoring in Europe). Just as we pondered which of the two edged the other out at the end of 2007, here we are again.

The thing is, as far as software sales go, if the absolute size of the gap remains static, then PS3's relative software performance can only continue to improve dramatically as the userbases grow. It was an 8m lead over a userbase of 10m or whatever. Now it's 8m over a userbase of 20m.

PS3 did much better for third parties in 08 than in 07. It's been 'enough' as is to keep their support, and if 360's lead continues to shrink relative to the overall size of the userbases (i.e. if they 'just' continue to maintain that year one lead), ps3 will continue to improve its performance relative to 360 on software sales, and third parties should be increasingly happy with it.

I think MS has a chance to actually grow their lead a little bit in the first half of this year. But if Sony price drops in the second half, they may well recover some of the relative performance they saw in the first half of 08. Price drops certainly did miracles for MS in the last 4 months of 08, Sony will be hoping for the same.

And I agree with you, though that wasn't what I was commenting.

The thing is that I get the impression that many PS3 fans think the console is one that sells slowly but have enormous software sales for it's user base, a thing that is just plainly wrong. I've discussed the same thing in another thread, and people were convinced that Wii doesn't sell software and the PS3 ratio was close to the 360.

 

[Zoramon089]

It's plain that MKDS has been on the market for 3 years. It's plain from this month's sales data that demand for the game has still not been met. And it's plain to anyone with a fair view of the industry that Nintendo has a long history of limiting game shipments to drive up demand among their fanbase in short, frenzied bursts, much like a cocaine addict taking a hit.

1 + 1 + 1 = 3. It's very simple.

Hmm, what's plain to me is that MKWii has renewed interest in MKS, plain and simple. No manufactured shortages as MKS has been selling fairly well for quite a long time (not top 10 overall but definitely top 10 for DS software on a monthly basis). Nintendo simply chose to up shipments for the holidays, as they probably did with most games they expected to sell well.

I think it's ridiculous to think they purposefully limited quantities of the title, when a more reasonable explanation is that the game is 3 years old and they simply don't manufacture as many copies as they did around it's release

 

[Barrett2]

By the 5th year, the PS3 will be comparable to the PS2 in terms of line-up. It will have a long-term appeal, UNLIKE the GC and Xbox.

And by the PS3's 6th year I will be playing my awesome, brand new XBOX 720.

PS3 defenders amaze me. Look, the system is fine, has great games, etc... but just accept it, the damn thing lost. The race is over. It can no longer win.

 

[AFreak]

:lol

The PS3 sales are bad and their sales/user base ratio is the worst of the three consoles, this with the last info we got, GTA4 is the only multiplatform PS3 I remember having a better ratio on PS3 than the Xbox 360.

Still, AFAIK Software Ratio is like this: 360>>Wii>PS3 or 8.1>>5.3>5.2.

If you have some information saying otherwise please tell us your source.

Devil May Cry 4 baby. And a lot mroe in Japan as well. Not only that but 3rd parties make more on PS3 than Wii. Madden 09 is a great example. Charted first on 360 and PS3 version charted as well that month, but the Wii version didn't even chart.

 

[Weisheit]

Not only that but 3rd parties make more on PS3 than Wii.

NO. Not even close.

 

[Tobor]

Hmm, what's plain to me is that MKWii has renewed interest in MKS, plain and simple. No manufactured shortages as MKS has been selling fairly well for quite a long time (not top 10 overall but definitely top 10 for DS software on a monthly basis). Nintendo simply chose to up shipments for the holidays, as they probably did with most games they expected to sell well.

I think it's ridiculous to think they purposefully limited quantities of the title, when a more reasonable explanation is that the game is 3 years old and they simply don't manufacture as many copies as they did around it's release

Did you mean for MKDS to come out as MKS or was it a happy accident?