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[Evlar]

Devil May Cry 4 baby. And a lot mroe in Japan as well. Not only that but 3rd parties make more on PS3 than Wii. Madden 09 is a great example. Charted first on 360 and PS3 version charted as well that month, but the Wii version didn't even chart.

You need more than one title and a snapshot of ten games per month to prove an assertion like that.

 

[Kasumi1970]

such a statement makes you just as big a fanboy as he is really.

Fanboys like him make me sick and I am seeing it from the sony camp a lot lately. Not so much from the MS or Nintendo camp.

 

[AFreak]

You need more than one title and a snapshot of ten games per month to prove an assertion like that.

Then look at all the third party games. It's no great secret that PS3 third parties have ahd better success on PS3 than Wii selling titles. Besides Rayman Raving Rabbids(first one) and Carnival games, what else has sold amazingly well compared to Nintendo's own lineup?

 

[Hellsing321]

What does God say about the future of the PS3? :lol

God is totally a Wii fanboy.

 

[Pureauthor]

Fanboys like him make me sick and I am seeing it from the sony camp a lot lately. Not so much from the MS or Nintendo camp.

It'll affect whichever camp is forced to defend a position that is undefendable.

In a war, when lives are on the line, we call it heroic. When what's at stake are videogame consoles, we call it pathetic.

 

[Weisheit]

Then look at all the third party games. It's no great secret that PS3 third parties have ahd better success on PS3 than Wii selling titles. Besides Rayman Raving Rabbids(first one) and Carnival games, what else has sold amazingly well compared to Nintendo's own lineup?

It's not even close:

Try again please.

 

[Masklinn]

God is totally a Wii fanboy.

They both have a magic wand after all.

 

[Pureauthor]

God is totally a Wii fanboy.

Nah. God's been shown to like voice-activated control systems. That means out of all the systems right now, He likes the DS the most. He's waiting for a real contender, though.

 

[Evlar]

Then look at all the third party games. It's no great secret that PS3 third parties have ahd better success on PS3 than Wii selling titles. Besides Rayman Raving Rabbids(first one) and Carnival games, what else has sold amazingly well compared to Nintendo's own lineup?

You're just re-stating your conclusion as evidence. Doesn't work like that. If PS3 third-party software in aggregate outsells Wii third-party software in aggregate then it IS a great secret: Most of the data you would need to prove out that assertion is hidden behind the legal veil of NPD secrecy. The only other evidence we might have is reports from the developers and manufacturers themselves.

EDIT: Or the third alternative is NPD releasing a report on this very subject, which I guess they did.

 

[Psychotext]

God is totally a Wii fanboy.

That reminds me of that phrase I've seen floating around here lately... something like "reality is well known for its anti PS3 bias".

 

[Tobor]

It'll affect whichever camp is forced to defend a position that is undefendable.

In a war, when lives are on the line, we call it heroic. When what's at stake are videogame consoles, we call it pathetic.

Fantastic.

 

[Christine]

God's been shown to like voice-activated control systems.

:lol

Nice.

 

[AFreak]

It's not even close:

Try again please.

Well, I guess it's the PS2 effect. No 3rd party games stand out as big sellers, but all the games sell just enough to squeak it to the top. Either way, PS3 isn't in a bad position.

 

[Masklinn]

PS3 third parties have ahd better success on PS3 than Wii selling titles.

what else has sold amazingly well compared to Nintendo's own lineup?

1. Nonsensicality
PS3 third parties sell better on the PS3 than on the Wii? Now that's a surprise.
2. Irrelevance
Third parties don't have to beat Nintendo to sell well on the Wii.
3. Fractal wrongness
It's wrong at every single level of resolutions that third parties enjoy better sales on the PS3 than on the Wii. See Weisheit's chart.

Well, I guess it's the PS2 effect. No 3rd party games stand out as big sellers

You might want to go back to the first post of this thread. Guitar Hero (World Tour in this case, but it's not like it's alone) is not a first-party Wii game.

 

[gofreak]

It's not even close:

Try again please.

That's an interesting chart, and pretty much says what the userbase sizes would suggest..

By month 12 (of PS3/Wii's life), PS3 did 5,000,000 to 360's 15,000,000. A year later, it was 25,000,000 to 360's 35,000,000.

Same absolute gap, but the relative gap is shrinking..

So yeah it's a bit 'well duh', but it's interesting to see that in the US alone..cos I figured it would perhaps only be very clear if you looked at the global situation overall.

 

[manueldelalas]

Then look at all the third party games. It's no great secret that PS3 third parties have ahd better success on PS3 than Wii selling titles. Besides Rayman Raving Rabbids(first one) and Carnival games, what else has sold amazingly well compared to Nintendo's own lineup?

I don't know how you got the Wii involved, but for third parties it is not even a contest:

Rayman 1, 2 3
Rockband 1, 2 (will surpass combined RB2 sales, watch it)
Red Steel
We Ski
RE 4, Umbrella
Mario & Sonic (3rd party)
Sonic Rings
Guitar Hero 3, WT
Carnival Games
Deca Sporta

If you watch PS3 third party games that sold well, you'll notice how ALL of them are big budget projects, and when comparing to the Wii 3rd party sellers, which are games with a MUCH lower budget, you can guess:

Big budget game + big sales == profit
Low budget games + big sales == a lot of profit.

And before you start, low budget =/= bad game.

I also wouldn't be the least surprised if Rockband and Guitar Hero games start appearing first on the Wii and have exclusive versions.

And yes, I'll go as far as to say that 3rd party games are making a lot more profit on the Wii than on the PS3.

 

[Hawk269]

There's a $400 and $500 SKU, just like last year.

In regards to your software comment, that's a bit unfair. Why do you expect a higher attach rate for PS3 versions of games than 360 versions?

That is not what I am saying. Put into this perspective....if you were a developer or more truthly a publisher because they make the financial decisions, which platform would you base your games off of? Were talking hi-def gaming here, not Wii shit.

That is the point. Yes, we know that the userbase is less, but in these financial times, when one version sells close to 1million more than the other version, I know where I would place my investments into.

 

[WretchedTruman]

It's not even close:

Try again please.

you should also take into consideration the sheer number of third party titles on the Wii, no matter how mundane or insignificant they may be.

If this chart reflected the real world situation, do you really think many third parties would even be bothering with the PS3 at this point?

Take a look at the software charts over the past year and it'll become clear that only a handful of third parties are having success with the Wii that's even remotely comparable to Nintendo's own efforts with their console...Activision and their success with Guitar Hero falling into that subcategory, obviously.

The difference is that even a "failure" on the Wii would classify as a "modest success" on it's HD counterparts.

 

[Pureauthor]

you should also take into consideration the sheer number of third party titles on the Wii, no matter how mundane or insignificant they may be.

If this chart reflected the real world situation, do you really think many third parties would even be bothering with the PS3 at this point?

The 'real world' situation is that many 3rd parties are simply porting their X360 games to the PS3 for a few more bucks. (And then there're those who break exclusivity to get access to the X360 userbase...)

 

[Stumpokapow]

such a statement makes you just as big a fanboy as he is really.

but he's still not a creationist, so that's a pretty big leg up.

 

[onipex]

It's plain that MKDS has been on the market for 3 years. It's plain from this month's sales data that demand for the game has still not been met. And it's plain to anyone with a fair view of the industry that Nintendo has a long history of limiting game shipments to drive up demand among their fanbase in short, frenzied bursts, much like a cocaine addict taking a hit.

1 + 1 + 1 = 3. It's very simple.

It's plain dumb to think that millions of new DS owners wouldn't buy a very popular game on their new system. Mario kart is sold out on the Wii so buy it for the DS.

Am I wrong in remembering that Game Over was a very anti Nintendo book? Wasn't it written during a time when the fear was Japan was taking over techology?

 

[Pureauthor]

but he's still not a creationist, so that's a pretty big leg up.

 

[Jammy]

1. For every PS3 third party title that actually performs well (Assasin's Creed, GTA IV, Call of Duty: World at War), there's numerous other third party Wii games that perform as well or better in terms of budget, profit, and sales. Look at EVERY sports game's sales that "fits" the Wii Remote well, like a baseball or tennis game. Look at EVERY licensed game from Spongebob to Harry Potter. Look at EVERY DDR that's out there or other music/band spin-off.

2. Just because third parties numbers look paltry in comparison to Nintendo's on the Wii doesn't mean jack shit. Sales need to be looked at in absolute terms. Something could sell as "well" as Motorstorm did when bundled and put up three million copies on PS3. How does selling three million on Wii (which every Guitar Hero game has done so far worldwide) look like any less of a feat just because there's games like Mario Kart Wii, SSBB, Wii Fit, Wii Play, and Wii Sports doing north of eight million or ten million each?

 

[RSTEIN]

Bulla564
Defending the PS3
against thick-headed
evolutionists for over
6,000 years.

 

[Mindlog]

The thing is, as far as software sales go, if the absolute size of the gap remains static, then PS3's relative software performance can only continue to improve dramatically as the userbases grow. It was an 8m lead over a userbase of 10m or whatever. Now it's 8m over a userbase of 20m.

PS3 did much better for third parties in 08 than in 07. It's been 'enough' as is to keep their support, and if 360's lead continues to shrink relative to the overall size of the userbases (i.e. if they 'just' continue to maintain that year one lead), ps3 will continue to improve its performance relative to 360 on software sales, and third parties should be increasingly happy with it.

That's why I was so intrigued by Sony stating Dec 08 was one of their best software months ever. YoY 2008 hardware sales were up 40% yet Dec 07 was a better software month. IMO Sony first party titles probably held a greater percentage of 2008 sales as well (R2, LBP, M2 vs Uncharted.) I need to go back and reread the literature, but I'm wondering why Sony didn't mention that either. YoY in general of course 3rd party sales were way up no doubt tent poled (in my pants) by MGS4 and GTA4.

 

[Pureauthor]

(neutral) Bulla564
Thick-headed creationist
(Today, 01:21 AM)
Reply | Quote

Hum.

 

[yellowjacket]

And by the PS3's 6th year I will be playing my awesome, brand new XBOX 720.

PS3 defenders amaze me. Look, the system is fine, has great games, etc... but just accept it, the damn thing lost. The race is over. It can no longer win.

This is very true. But then again Xbox 360 owners should accept it also. The Wii has destroyed all competitors in this race. I really wish we could just say that the Wii is first, 360 second, PS3 is third and we can end all of this stupid console wars bullshit. Does anyone really care if the PS3 fights back and takes second place? Does it really matter? The PS3 is not going to lose very much third party support this generation so the argument is completely useless at this point.

 

[donny2112]

Take a look at the software charts over the past year and it'll become clear that only a handful of third parties are having success with the Wii that's even remotely comparable to Nintendo's own efforts with their console...

Why does it need to compare in sales numbers to Nintendo's own efforts, exactly?

 

[Cheesemeister]

This is very true. But then again Xbox 360 owners should accept it also. The Wii has destroyed all competitors in this race. I really wish we could just say that the Wii is first, 360 second, PS3 is third and we can end all of this stupid console wars bullshit. Does anyone really care if the PS3 fights back and takes second place? Does it really matter? The PS3 is not going to lose very much third party support this generation so the argument is completely useless at this point.

What I have recorded for LTDs since Nov. 2005...

[WII] 17,540,370
[360] 13,886,381
[PS3] 6,788,924

 

[donny2112]

YoY 2008 hardware sales were up 40% yet Dec 07 was a better software month.

It wasn't. I tried to clear that up last night, if you can check my posts from after you originally asked the question. The guy who responded to you was giving you hardware comparisons when you asked for software comparisons. Dec-08 is the PS3's biggest month for total software in the U.S. to date.

 

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I think it's already been well established where the rankings are going to fall.
I'm just here for the software sales now.

 

[markatisu]

So the goalposts have been moved again to 3rd parties need to sell as humongous as Nintendo now?

 

[yellowjacket]

What I have recorded for LTDs since Nov. 2005...

[WII] 17,540,370
[360] 13,886,381
[PS3] 6,788,924

I already knew those numbers so im not sure what the point is.

 

[tfur]

Estimated

Wow...

It really is a testimonial to how good the Microsoft marketing and PR handlers are, when you consider these charts. The two HD consoles sold the approximately the same globally this year, but one is singled out and given the "doomed" designation. Of course, it is also a testimonial to how poor Sony marketing and PR handlers are as well...

It seems like many are chest thumping about a few hundred thousand difference, while difference between the Wii and either HD console is ~13 million difference YTD.

Just talking about the numbers... not the history, expectations, intended sales, desires, price, specific markets, etc...

I mean just take a step back and look at that...

Wii YTD: 23.0 million
360 YTD: 9.9 million
PS3 YTD: 9.2 million

In reality, the Wii is in first class, sipping champagne, while the x360 and ps3 are fighting for a window seat in coach. No, the Wii is traveling by private jet, while the 360/PS3 are 2 kids fighting in the back seat of a station wagon.

 

[snatches]

I think a price drop from Sony in April at $299 would really damage 360's current momentum since the price drop last fall. Overall, I think if MS was smart they would release a pstwo type new hardware model for '09. Hell, they are 4 years into the life cycle, this would really give them a rush of momentum that could offset Sony's more aggressive pricing.

I also think next holiday they should have a mature themed bundle to go along with their kiddie pack of Indy/KFP variation. A Halo 3 pack in would have been huge, a Halo3/Gears 1 pack would have been colossal.

 

[Cheesemeister]

I already knew those numbers so im not sure what the point is.

For those who don't know, the people you were complaining about.

 

[Bulla564]

And for the vast majority of the potential (HD) audience (so those who don't have a console yet and might consider buying an HD one), the PS3 is seen as an inferior cousin to the 360, once again like it or not.

It's viewed as the more expensive cousin. Get it right. If that's what you mean by inferior, then I guess you are right.

You realize that's impossible, right? Are you even aware of what the "lineup" on the PS2 was? By sheer volume alone your statement is impossible.

I'll concede that the Wii is enjoying the mass market shovelware that the PS2 enjoyed, and that the PS3 will never have.

there's no other explanation for why he is so ridiculously invested in the future success of the platform.

fanboys like Bulla564 make me want to sell my PS3 and get a wii to go along with my 360

If it makes you feel better, I'll be thinking of you while I play KILLZONE 2

What does God say about the future of the PS3?

As a bleading-heart liberal who is a non-practicing catholic, I don't talk to God THAT much...

Yes. The sales are not surprising. The sales are also atrocious. You don't seem to be getting this.

I guess many people see a $400 console atrocious. Many won't after a price cut.

Is that so? Remember that the reason the PS3 started off strong this year was because of a price cut from last year. Once the effect of the cut faded, Sony has shown that the PS3 is selling weaker in the same months as last year.

MS's price cut was the thing that changed the situation. You could argue the same thing as to why the X360 did good in the holidays.

Even if every single PS3 sales in December was attributed to Blu-Ray 'helping' the PS3, it still sold a terrible 800K units in December. Hence the fact that Blu-Ray is not helping the PS3 out of its pit.

This is an argument where you are shooting blanks. You don't have any hard facts to base your assumptions on.

Gears 2 shipped/sold 4 million WW in half the time it took Gears 1. How's Sony's big holiday exclusive doing?

That's my point. Any info on the next Halo yet?

This has nothing to do with what I said. If you believe the PS3 has reason to rise in fortunes, prove it. In detail.

I can give you a crash-course in microeconomics, but I'll just use my little crystal ball to predict a price-cut in the PS3's future, and big-name games being released, leading to a rise in its fortunes. There.

Bulla564
Thick-headed creationist
(Today, 01:34 PM)
Reply | Quote | Edit/Del

Meh... it's intelligent design btw. It will now take a few more posts to explain my position.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Nah. God's been shown to like voice-activated control systems. That means out of all the systems right now, He likes the DS the most. He's waiting for a real contender, though.

If only God could create one.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

Wow, Bulla is giving this thread life again.

 

[Jaruru]

It's not even close:

Try again please.

thanks so much for this chart. many ppl mix up the user base adapting % and the real # of games sold.

let's just compare, 10% of 10million >>> 50% of 1million. ppl pls just stop whining, dev looks at the game [selling figure and the $ they make]. not the [num selling / num consoles sold].

 

[WretchedTruman]

Why does it need to compare in sales numbers to Nintendo's own efforts, exactly?

I suppose it doesn't, but that's a bit of an oddity if 360's third parties are enjoying sales that are head and shoulders with MS' own efforts and, in Sony's case, often eclipsing them entirely.

I reiterate: It's not hard to have a third party Wii title pull it's own weight in the long run, given the size of the user base.

That said, until we start seeing a bit of variety in the NPD software charts, I'm gonna go on a dangerous limb (or it may just be common sense) and say that many third parties find a 360/PS3 title more attractive than taking a stab into the Wii front.

Of course, it's not like publishers really have much to lose if their little Wii title doesn't set the charts on fire, given how little fucking effort they often put into it...Ubisoft.

 

[Pureauthor]

I guess many people see a $400 console atrocious. Many won't after a price cut.

How many? And why would they choose the PS3 over the X360? What are the game that will push the decision? Why will those games push the decision?

MS's price cut was the thing that changed the situation. You could argue the same thing as to why the X360 did good in the holidays.

Enh. 1.5 million isn't really good either.

This is an argument where you are shooting blanks. You don't have any hard facts to base your assumptions on.

Yes. I have no hard facts. What I have, however, is an assumption for the best scenario possible insofar as the Blu-Ray's aid to the PS3 is concerned, and it is still not good at all.

That's my point. Any info on the next Halo yet?

Your point is that the X360 is running circles around the Ps3 in software sales? How long in advance did we know about Gears 2 before it came out?

I can give you a crash-course in microeconomics, but I'll just use my little crystal ball to predict a price-cut in the PS3's future, and big-name games being released, leading to a rise in its fortunes. There.

Details. Do you understand the word?

 

[Masklinn]

It really is a testimonial to how good the Microsoft marketing and PR handlers are, when you consider these charts. The two HD consoles sold the approximately the same globally this year, but one is singled out and given the "doomed" designation.

One of them also sold less this december than the previous one, and was outsold 2:1 this time around.

It's viewed as the more expensive cousin. Get it right. If that's what you mean by inferior, then I guess you are right.

Well ok, more precisely it's seen as the same thing with less game and a much bigger price tag.

In other words, inferior.

Meh... it's intelligent design btw. It will now take a few more posts to explain my position.

You don't need to. You don't have one, and ID is creationism rebranded. And not science.

I suppose it doesn't, but that's a bit of an oddity if 360's third parties are enjoying sales that are head and shoulders with MS' own efforts and, in Sony's case, often eclipsing them entirely.

It's not, Nintendo is in a completely different league than MS and Sony on every metric you can count.

 

[Mindlog]

It wasn't. I tried to clear that up last night, if you can check my posts from after you originally asked the question. The guy who responded to you was giving you hardware comparisons when you asked for software comparisons. Dec-08 is the PS3's biggest month for total software in the U.S. to date.

My apologies. Now everything makes more sense.

Why didn't they just say that

 

[WretchedTruman]

I think a price drop from Sony in April at $299 would really damage 360's current momentum since the price drop last fall.

And would leave them with zero momentum come holiday '09. It's a very short term solution. Better that they split it up into a number of smaller price drops and SKU bundles over the year.

 

[Regulus Tera]

A pool full of wonderful, wonderful games

I think most reasonably thinking people can see where GC analogies fall apart. They're situations - mostly because of the overall situation - are very different.

But the GCN had a pool full of wonderful, wonderful games too. :/

 

[Masklinn]

And would leave them with zero momentum

And zero money. Sony still loses money on the PS3, as far as I know.

 

[Son of Godzilla]

thanks so much for this chart. many ppl mix up the user base adapting % and the real # of games sold.

let's just compare, 10% of 10million >>> 50% of 1million. ppl pls just stop whining, dev looks at the game [selling figure and the $ they make]. not the [num selling / num consoles sold].

I'm not sure they care much about the sales numbers from a year ago though either.

 

[WretchedTruman]

And zero money. Sony still loses money on the PS3, as far as I know.

The "Sony have no money" ordeal has been inflated to sensationalistic proportions. Can't we just all agree that shareholders are fickle assholes and they wouldn't be happy?

 

[RSTEIN]

That's the only place where there's been any innovation this generation. So if you're not talking about the controls, I once again fail to see what innovation you're trying to talk about. You might try to spell out what constitutes innovation in the PS3, for a change.

For a change? I make one post that suggests the PS3 tried to do something innovative this gen and now I'm a blathering Sony zealot?

Anyways, you already answered your own question. The PS3 tried to introduce two interesting hardware innovations into a mass market consumer electronics device for the first time. 1) Cell architecture and 2) Blu Ray. My whole point was that with Sony failing to lead this generation, and so far losing tons of money, executives are going to be scared to make similar investments. Why try to push storage? Why try to push console architecture? The ROI isn't there. As a consumer, I want innovation and companies to make big bets on new ideas.

We could debate what constitutes evolution vs. innovation until the cows come home. You say that the Wii's motion sensing peripheral is the only example of innovation this gen. Well, one could argue that the Wiimote is simply the evolution of a device that's been around since the first NES. I did after all kill ducks on my NES by pointing a plastic gun at my screen. Similarly, one could say that the PS3 is more evolution than innovation.