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[RSTEIN]

SHORYUKEN!!!!!!!!!!!1

scrub.

 

[Nocebo]

Where are people discussing profit margins? I thought we were discussing units?

Hahahah it flew completely over your head didn't it? maybe you should reread what you said. It makes no sense.

 

[[Nintex]]

You think they'll make the X360 cost nearly as much as a PS2 4 years after its launch (in response to a Sony cut)? 100 dollars cheaper than a Wii?

MS could do that and if they thought that a $299 PS3 would hurt them too much they probably will. MS is trying to take out Sony but they've yet to deliver the final blow. I've never seen a company competing like this, except for the Nintendo vs. SEGA battle which was dirty on both sides. SEGA selling systems at a big loss, Nintendo telling retailers at gunpoint to stock Nintendo instead of SEGA.

 

[Vinci]

You think they'll make the X360 cost nearly as much as a PS2 4 years after its launch (in response to a Sony cut)? 100 dollars cheaper than a Wii?

First, you're assuming how fast Sony's going to get out these price cuts. They depend largely on what they can afford - and it doesn't look like they're in great financial shape at the moment, on any front. Second, you're looking at it from the point of view of strictly the numbers - but the more MS sells at the sweet spot price of $200, the less incentive people will have to buy the PS3. Fewer exclusives are going to come to it over the next several years, not more, and the HD audience has shown it goes with what's new by and large. So everyone will be able to rattle off names of games long gone, but most people won't care as they won't be on store shelves anymore and there's already been considerable drama from retailers about PS3 space in their stores.

I'm not suggesting Sony is doomed - I'm saying that the outlook for them, at present, is less than kind.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

This is another typical GAF NPD thread.....Full of Americans thinking that the US = The world.

It.......doesn't.

The US and UK is MS's strongest markets,whilst the rest range from non-existant to shit to average.

Sony is doing decidedly average in all markets, with some being worse than others due to high price, and high price alone. (US being one of the worst ones relatively speaking.)

It both means they are doing as average as each other worldwide and given one of them is half the price of the other I would figure it should be the lowest price one that thinks they are fucked.

Simple fucking economics......

:lol :lol ROFLCOPTERS

 

[TheListener]

Second place is the first loser. It's all about catching Nintendo now.

 

[Jocchan]

Where are people discussing profit margins? I thought we were discussing units?

No, or at least you didn't because you brought the price factor in the discussion, and said MS should be more worried because they're selling comparably at half the price. Which, by itself, means nothing without taking profit in the equation.
This is why I said - if this is simple economics - you should take your classes again: if we're discussing units (which is useful to determine the size of each console's userbase and evaluate software sales), there's no reason to consider price.

 

[Alcibiades]

Although not necessarily a mistake (since it'll probably have legs as the price drops), HOTD: Overkill at $50 is a problem. A light-gun game just doesn't have the complexity and depth of "regular" games that go for the same price. At least Umbrella Chronicles had a major franchise name (and followed-up RE4), but normally light-gun games shouldn't go for the same price as most standard 3rd/1st-person games, despite them being for certain people just as fun as other those of games.

$30 is probably a good launch price, but even $40 would have been ok. Myself, I usually wait until the price drops to $20 for simple games like this. I reserve paying full price for games like Smash Bros. and Mario Galaxy, which obviously had years in development, big teams, and expensive budgets.

Of course if something is can't-miss or it's a particular favorite of mine or getting 10's across the board I might make an exception, but in general I definitely take the scope (which is different, but often times related to, how long a game is) of a game into account when making purchases. For example, MadWorld seems much more deserving of a full-price purchase, as it's an 3rd-person, beat-em-up that by it's nature gives the player more freedom and choice than a light-gun game like HOTD: Overkill. This despite both probably taking about the same time to finish.

Boom Blox was definitely a slow-burn success, but no doubt part of the initial resistance is similar thinking. I myself waited until I found the game on sale because I thought there is no way I'm paying $50 for a puzzle game (that said in retrospect it would have been worth the $50).

Anyway, companies should definitely take all this into account, as well as name brand and whether there is any marketing behind something because even if it's not fair, it's how a lot of game buyers think. Having every game from major publishers launch at $50 on Wii and $60 on PS3/360 isn't necessary, and sometimes really hurts any chance a game has.

 

[Masklinn]

Simple economics.....

Parallel universe economics are awesome.

What would MS do in response to this?

They would laugh as Sony deep-ends into the red, and it doesn't raise their sales.

MS is trying to take out Sony but they've yet to deliver the final blow.

No they ain't. What the hell are you smoking here? MS isn't trying to take out Sony, they're merely ensuring Sony doesn't conquer the living room as the entertainment hub.

 

[jmdajr]

scrub.

:lol

 

[DjFroggy]

Awesome.....

How many units did MS and Sony sell worldwide last year?

10.8 million shipped each.... Worldwide. Now consider the fact the 360 is half the price of the PS3 and that leads me to think that demand for the 360 is less so they have to sell at a lower price.

Therefore MS are more fucked than their competition as their competition can lower the price if they so fucking wish to increase demand. MS have fewer options in this department as they are already cheap.

Simple economics.....

Didn't Sony cut the ps3 price and launched a new model in late 2007? A pricecut that made the ps3 outsell the 360 worldwide from January - September, and then MS cut the price of the 360 and made up for it in 3 months?

 

[Rolf NB]

Economists told us just a year ago that the US was in great shape. You have to look at recent data. The PS3 has now posted 4 consecutive months of YoY declines (although the rate of decline has eased up a bit). The 360 has posted YoY growth during those same months. "Simple economics" would suggest that price drops increase sales.

fixed

 

[kitch9]

By the time 'the exchange rates sort themselves out', the focus would be on the next generation of consoles.

I think its safe to say no assumptions can be made with regards the worlds economic issues at the minute.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Does anyone remember what the first day sales for MGS4 were in the US?

 

[markatisu]

Although not necessarily a mistake (since it'll probably have legs as the price drops), HOTD: Overkill at $50 is a problem. A light-gun game just doesn't have the complexity and depth of "regular" games that go for the same price. At least Umbrella Chronicles had a major franchise name (and followed-up RE4), but normally light-gun games shouldn't go for the same price as most standard 3rd/1st-person games, despite them being for certain people just as fun as other those of games.

$30 is probably a good launch price, but even $40 would have been ok. Myself, I usually wait until the price drops to $20 for simple games like this. I reserve paying full price for games like Smash Bros. and Mario Galaxy, which obviously had years in development, big teams, and expensive budgets.

Of course if something is can't-miss or it's a particular favorite of mine or getting 10's across the board I might make an exception, but in general I definitely take the scope (which is different, but often times related to, how long a game is) of a game into account when making purchases. For example, MadWorld seems much more deserving of a full-price purchase, as it's an 3rd-person, beat-em-up that by it's nature gives the player more freedom and choice than a light-gun game like HOTD: Overkill. This despite both probably taking about the same time to finish.

Boom Blox was definitely a slow-burn success, but no doubt part of the initial resistance is similar thinking. I myself waited until I found the game on sale because I thought there is no way I'm paying $50 for a puzzle game (that said in retrospect it would have been worth the $50).

Anyway, companies should definitely take all this into account, as well as name brand and whether there is any marketing behind something because even if it's not fair, it's how a lot of game buyers think. Having every game from major publishers launch at $50 on Wii and $60 on PS3/360 isn't necessary, and sometimes really hurts any chance a game has.

Well in the case of Sega they receive the bulk of their Wii game sales once the price drops to around $39, it has happened with all of their games (including Mario and Sonic, that just benefited from selling at full price)

Its also how Sega sustains and promotes the legs of a title, EA adopted a similar strategy on the Wii with Boom Blox, THQ did it with de Blob, Ubisoft has done it Shaun White, Activision did it with GH,and the Lego series on Wii has followed suit.

So while everyone else is crying that HoTD Overkill did not sell 300k out of the gate, I think we will all be happy in 6-7 months when combined with the UK sales which are freaking great and I think Sega will be more than happy (as they were with the Ghost Squad and HoTD 2/3 Returns)

 

[Gaborn]

Awesome.....

How many units did MS and Sony sell worldwide last year?

10.8 million shipped each.... Worldwide. Now consider the fact the 360 is half the price of the PS3 and that leads me to think that demand for the 360 is less so they have to sell at a lower price.

Therefore MS are more fucked than their competition as their competition can lower the price if they so fucking wish to increase demand. MS have fewer options in this department as they are already cheap.

Simple economics.....

But why would they "so fucking wish" to do that at this point? what's a few more sales going to get them at this point?

 

[pakkit]

You know what? I'm not particularly adept with economics, and I'm not afraid to admit it. The amount of people in these threads that claim that they have some ironclad grip on economic theory just drives me up a wall. Making a claim WITHOUT A SOURCE and then trying to fill in the gaping holes of logic with a good ol' "c'mon guys, it's easy economics" is bullshit.

 

[kitch9]

No, or at least you didn't because you brought the price factor in the discussion, and said MS should be more worried because they're selling comparably at half the price. Which, by itself, means nothing without taking profit in the equation.
This is why I said - if this is simple economics - you should take your classes again: if we're discussing units (which is useful to determine the size of each console's userbase and evaluate software sales), there's no reason to consider price.

Wat?

We are talking supply and demand which is simple economics.

I have some red apples and when I priced them was $0.20 I only sold 1000 of them, but I dropped the price to $0.15 and managed to sell 2000 more.

My green apples on the other hand sold 1000 at $0.30 and 2000 more at $0.25.

Which apples have the highest demand?

 

[gofreak]

I wonder if the effect on game releases will stay negligible. There does seem to be a shift going on. Games that would normally be exclusives on a playstation machine are turning into multiplat or going exclusive on a different console.

Seems? :lol

There's been a shift toward multiplatformism for years now. It was going to happen as long as both systems had 'enough' of the market..

It's also been a two-way street. The list from 360 to PS3 may not be as high profile, but that's arguably only because 'Playstation' had more high profile third party exclusives to lose in the first place. But it's certainly very clear that everyone with a HD console is finding it difficult to hold onto third party games as exclusives.

The cost of porting is too low now, and the extra reach available on either platform too high relative to that cost, not to do it.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Therefore MS are more fucked than their competition as their competition can lower the price if they so fucking wish to increase demand. MS have fewer options in this department as they are already cheap.

Simple economics.....

ROFL...

Are you one of the people that think hard-to-develop-for is also a good thing?

High price == good, gives you more room to lower price????? Seriously... what do you guys do in life? Flip burgers?

Oh wait.... that was sarcasm? Right?

 

[markatisu]

Wat?

We are talking supply and demand which is simple economics.

I have some red apples and when I priced them was $0.20 I only sold 1000 of them, but I dropped the price to $0.15 and managed to sell 2000 more.

My green apples on the other hand sold 1000 at $0.30 and 2000 more at $0.25.

Which apples have the highest demand?

But if your green apples cost 3-5x to make arent you just breaking even or possibly losing regardless of demand?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

You know what? I'm not particularly adept with economics, and I'm not afraid to admit it. The amount of people in these threads that claim that they have some ironclad grip on economic theory just drives me up a wall. Making a claim WITHOUT A SOURCE and then trying to fill in the gaping holes of logic with a good ol' "c'mon guys, it's easy economics" is bullshit.

You don't understand why they do it? C'mon dude, it's basic psychology.

 

[Alcibiades]

Well in the case of Sega they receive the bulk of their Wii game sales once the price drops to around $39, it has happened with all of their games (including Mario and Sonic, that just benefited from selling at full price)

Its also how Sega sustains and promotes the legs of a title, EA adopted a similar strategy on the Wii with Boom Blox, THQ did it with de Blob, Ubisoft has done it Shaun White, Activision did it with GH,and the Lego series on Wii has followed suit.

yeah, in general it's a fine strategy and I don't mind waiting, I just hope it doesn't kill titles... I haven't purchased Deadly Creatures (and if I wasn't so busy with school I probably would have even at $50), but I fear THQ may take into account initial sales in deciding whether the game was a success or not... it was really just a bad time, coming the same week as Tenchu and HOTD and a few weeks before MadWorld and Rune Factory... for Wii gamers spacing out their purchases at one game every 1-2 months, February and March have been kind of packed with $50 releases all worthy of a look from the "core" audience... I noticed Tenchu has dropped to $30 on amazon.com I wonder if that's a normal part of the plan or if it's being discontinued so quickly...

 

[markatisu]

yeah, in general it's a fine strategy and I don't mind waiting, I just hope it doesn't kill titles... I haven't purchased Deadly Creatures (and if I wasn't so busy with school I probably would have even at $50), but I fear THQ may take into account initial sales in deciding whether the game was a success or not... it was really just a bad time, coming the same week as Tenchu and HOTD and a few weeks before MadWorld and Rune Factory... for Wii gamers spacing out their purchases at one game every 1-2 months, February and March have been kind of packed...

Why THQ never used that as a bar for de Blob

Wii Publishers should know by now it takes at least 3-6 months to see a return on a Wii game (even Wii Music and Animal Crossing by Nintendo were proof of this, and the DS is built on that assumption)

So any Wii Publisher who squaks at 1st month sales did not really care about the platform to begin with because they ignoring how it works

 

[pakkit]

I have some red apples and when I priced them was $0.20 I only sold 1000 of them, but I dropped the price to $0.15 and managed to sell 2000 more.

My green apples on the other hand sold 1000 at $0.30 and 2000 more at $0.25.

Which apples have the highest demand?

Your assumption is that the apples have sold the same. And, they haven't, they aren't even close. To make your analogy, your constants have to be congruous with the situation at hand. You're just throwing numbers into the air.

 

[BakedPigeon]

Just heard The Lost and the Damned sold more then Killzone 2..... ouch.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Business has picked up. Crazy people have entered the thread...

 

[mj1108]

You know what? I'm not particularly adept with economics, and I'm not afraid to admit it. The amount of people in these threads that claim that they have some ironclad grip on economic theory just drives me up a wall. Making a claim WITHOUT A SOURCE and then trying to fill in the gaping holes of logic with a good ol' "c'mon guys, it's easy economics" is bullshit.

So in other words, it's like every other NPD thread GAF has ever had. :lol

 

[kitch9]

But if your green apples cost 3-5x to make arent you just breaking even or possibly losing regardless of demand?

The only person who knows what the apples cost is me. I'll say it again which is the most desirable product and has the most demand.

 

[Jocchan]

Wat?

We are talking supply and demand which is simple economics.

I have some red apples and when I priced them was $0.20 I only sold 1000 of them, but I dropped the price to $0.15 and managed to sell 2000 more.

My green apples on the other hand sold 1000 at $0.30 and 2000 more at $0.25.

Which apples have the highest demand?

You're right, it's not Sony that should be worried. I am worried now.

 

[LM4sure]

Just heard The Lost and the Damned sold more then Killzone 2..... ouch.

Is this true? I don't have a 360 so I don't know the specifics of the game, but wasn't it an add-on for GTA4? Don't you need GTA4 in order to play this new game? If so, ouch indeed.

 

[kitch9]

Your assumption is that the apples have sold the same. And, they haven't, they aren't even close. To make your analogy, your constants have to be congruous with the situation at hand. You're just throwing numbers into the air.

You are maybe right as the only WW data we have is both MS and Sony shipped 10.8 million units last year each.......

That is what I base my discussion on.

*Edit* It is safe to assume Japan will take up some of the sales deficit for PS3 month by month, so it does depend on Europe and the rest of the PAL territories as to how big the differences are.

Not big enough to make Sony act it appears.

 

[pakkit]

So in other words, it's like every other NPD thread GAF has ever had. :lol

You're right, there's a reason I usually stay out of these threads. It brings GAF's collective IQ way down.

I'd illustrate my point with apples, but I'm a little petered out.

How about WW total sales?

I agree with you that Sony doesn't have to jump ship and go 3rd party (lol), but that's mostly because of the PSP. This next big marketing push on the PSP this year should be where they make up some lost money.

 

[[Nintex]]

I'd illustrate my point with apples, but I'm a little petered out.

How about WW total sales?

I dunno man, it seems pears are a much more viable market.

 

[kitch9]

I dunno man, it seems pears are a much more viable market.

My pears have the Nintendo logo on and they are a COMPLETELY different story....:lol

I'm done....

(Bows.)

Goodnight and godbless.....

 

[Nocebo]

10.8 million shipped each.... Worldwide. Now consider the fact the 360 is half the price of the PS3 and that leads me to think that demand for the 360 is less so they have to sell at a lower price.

Therefore MS are more fucked than their competition as their competition can lower the price if they so fucking wish to increase demand. MS have fewer options in this department as they are already cheap.

Simple economics.....

First of all the xbox is NOT half the price of the ps3. Second the competition can NOT lower the price if they wish, believe me if they could give the ps3 away for free and turn a massive profit they would probably do it. Third the demand for xbox360 isn't less because they're selling more. What they're currently selling is important because installbase is more important for consoles than it is for apples because they make money on software sold on their hardware too, so having a bigger installbase means getting more money from software etc.

 

[Psychotext]

The only person who knows what the apples cost is me.

True, but given you've posted ~3.3bn losses on your apples division in the last three years, people have a fairly good idea that you're selling your apples for less than they cost you to grow.

(apples)

 

[mentalfloss]

Just heard The Lost and the Damned sold more then Killzone 2..... ouch.

Don't ever change gaf, :lol

 

[Kestastrophe]

Wat?

We are talking supply and demand which is simple economics.

I have some red apples and when I priced them was $0.20 I only sold 1000 of them, but I dropped the price to $0.15 and managed to sell 2000 more.

My green apples on the other hand sold 1000 at $0.30 and 2000 more at $0.25.

Which apples have the highest demand?

impossible to determing the demand function without knowing if it's linear or not. We can however, assess the price elasticity of demand (in which case red apples are -4 and green are -6).

 

[kitch9]

True, but given you've posted ~3.3bn losses on your apples division in the last three years, people have a fairly good idea that you're selling your apples for less than they cost you to grow.

(apples)

Haven't MS only posted profit once since they started? Its an irrelevance....

 

[Stumpokapow]

Haven't MS only posted profit once since they started? Its an irrelevance....

... profit is irrelevant?

 

[Hammer24]

To ask the question more directly, do you not think KZ2 would have done better still if it at launched in the holidays?

I honestly think it would have died in the onslaught, like so many other great games did. And I think it got postponed on purpose to a quieter time, because of this.

 

[Dragon]

Enough did though. Some even paid more via eBay. And it was ridiculous.

People value things differently. Shocker I know.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Haven't MS only posted profit once since they started? Its an irrelevance....

You already said good night and god bless. I'll let this pass as your encore, but anything more and you will be kicked out of the metaphorical entertainers' union.

 

[markatisu]

I honestly think it would have died in the onslaught, like so many other great games did. And I think it got postponed on purpose to a quieter time, because of this.

Yes KZ2 during the holidays would have been slaughtered even on its own platform (it would have been competing for sales with Resistance 2 and CoD WaW, which CoD WaW won outright the battle)

It probably would have shifted a lot of units but it has a much better shot being released now with virtually no PS3 competition in that genre (besides a 5 month old CoD WaW)

 

[Nocebo]

... profit is irrelevant?

Of course haven't you heard? Money will become meaningless in a few years due to the economic collapse and we'll be paying with emotions of how much we desire something. That'll clear up all the misconceptions about what's in demand and what isn't.

 

[u_neek]

nvm.

Go Wii Fit!

 

[Nocebo]

You already said good night and god bless. I'll let this pass as your encore, but anything more and you will be kicked out of the metaphorical entertainers' union.

Are you sure you didn't accidentally strap a landmine on that guy's head before you threw him? Just between you and me, it would be an honest mistake to make.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Are you sure you didn't accidentally strap a landmine on that guy's head before you threw him? Just between you and me, it would be an honest mistake to make.

No, my emergency landmine is still in my pocket.

I think I'm kinetically charging the guy like motherfuckin' Gambit n' shit.

 

[Man God]

Are you sure you didn't accidentally strap a landmine on that guy's head before you threw him? Just between you and me, it would be an honest mistake to make.

This stuff is routine for the world's mightiest hero 32-bit console spokesperson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3lCF8O2N50