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[Shurs]

Splosion Man, Shadow Complex, Braid.

For now...

 

[Aaron Strife]

They don't have to whore it out. A new Mario Kart every couple of years isn't asking too much. Thank goodness Nintendo is making an exception to their silly thinking with Super Mario Galaxy 2.

Well, with Mario Kart and Smash Bros., those games sell primarily on multiplayer and can be played just about forever. It's different with Mario and Zelda, because once you've finished Galaxy or Twilight Princess, what's next? You might replay it like, once.

I can appreciate only having 1-2 Marios/Zeldas every gen because it makes it feel that much better when it actually comes out, but I don't think bumping it up to 2-3 would be that terrible.

 

[supermackem]

The only thing that can breathe life back into sony now is a slim and a price cut for it to even stand a chance at getting back at just the 360 the wii is long gone now for sony in usa.

 

[Fredescu]

the distance between the 360 and the Wii is shrinking.

The distance between their LTDs continues to grow though, which I think is the more important metric. It's true to say the growth of the distance is shrinking, but that sounds far less impressive.

 

[AniHawk]

And I'll freely admit I'm not familiar with the title so that is valid point to make. Although 12K says something went wrong with marketing or reaching the audience this game was intended for. Although I have no idea how much the budget was, or how many days it was available for sales on the NPD report.

It came out a few days before Wii Sports Resort. I think the marketing was limited to the Internet and magazines. Marvelous expected 10 times the amount for the fiscal year (in shipped sales). I think it actually performed better in Japan.

I can't believe they didn't try to get the Harvest Moon crowd. I don't know how exactly you advertise to the Harvest Moon crowd, but it's pretty damn huge on Nintendo systems.

For now...

They're gonna hostage trade it for Trine.

 

[Sushen]

I want them to list DS and DSi separate. I'm still not sure if DSi will pickup... until then, I'm not buying one.

 

[Man God]

Hmm, now that has me wondering. What is the downloadable title with the most amount of content. Gotta discount VC games of course or else something like Harvest Moon or Uncharted Waters would blow away the rest, and also PC games meant as full retail releases.

Mega Man 9 comes to mind easily, but that's not even close to the gameplay meat offered by something like Little Kings Story.

 

[boiled goose]

And I'll freely admit I'm not familiar with the title so that is valid point to make. Although 12K says something went wrong with marketing or reaching the audience this game was intended for. Although I have no idea how much the budget was, or how many days it was available for sales on the NPD report.

of course it didnt reach the audience it was intended for. there is no audience
it is a new IP from a not well known publisher that is a difficult, real-time strategy-rpg-sim hybrid with an extremely childish art style.

the game is the definition of niche.

 

[Scrubking]

wow, awesome. so when that Sega exec said they shipped 300,000 copies and sold half of that already, he meant in America alone.

looks like it's not a bomb, sorry guys. 150k in five weeks does not suck.

Yeah, and where are all the fools on here who said it would only sell 60k lifetime?

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Do people realize that download only games outside of the PC (especially non-multiplayer centric ones) sell FAR worse than those on retail? The only type of games that would make sense are those short of stature. Oh and please don't bring that bullshit like citing Battlefield 1943 and what not. Just because a few exceptions that are practically blockbusters sell well doesn't mean your average niche game will.

between 60k and 70k.

Damn SEGA was right. It is having some nice legs.

...which, yeah, is a bomb in Europe. But not in America! =P

So:

House of the Dead: Overkill does awesome in Europe but bombs in America.

Madworld bombs in Europe and bombs in America.

The Conduit is bombing in Europe but doing awesome in America.


...so SEGA's next Wii core game will do awesome and Europe and do awesome in America?

Being serious here. It seems that 2 out of 3 SEGA's core Wii games have/are performing up to expectations. So far it may not be ideal but its working and thats more than I could say from SEGA's previous ventures.

who the fuck buys the conduit instead of little king story?

i would rather punch myself in the dick then play the conduit

People who saw advertisements for The Conduit but not Little King's Story?

 

[AniHawk]

Hmm, now that has me wondering. What is the downloadable title with the most amount of content. Gotta discount VC games of course or else something like Harvest Moon or Uncharted Waters would blow away the rest, and also PC games meant as full retail releases.

Mega Man 9 comes to mind easily, but that's not even close to the gameplay meat offered by something like Little Kings Story.

I think Shadow Complex might be the biggest one. Depends how much voice acting there is and how long it is too.

Splosion Man's up there. 50 levels of single player, 50 levels of multiplayer plus time trials.

 

[stupei]

To be fair I also tend to think some of these hardcore Wii titles would be more successful as PSN and XBL titles.

I'm not really trying to troll the Wii but that's sort of how I feel. Like I think Mad World could potentially be a big hit on XBL and PSN or a few other titles I could think of. It's easy to play the speculation game of course and I could be completely wrong but even though I have a Wii, I'd rather play some of those style games on my 360.

Of course we'd need to see total final sales and budget for some of these titles to fully speculate on it.

Never really understood this particular argument about Mad World, though I've heard it several times. Sure it'd probably sell because it's got blood and violence, but not at the price they would probably want to release it at, and why would people want to pick it up on XBLA? Isn't the whole point of it the motion controls? Take those away and the experience loses a whole layer of depth.

 

[Shurs]

Yeah, and where are all the fools on here who said it would only sell 60k lifetime?

There were also fools on here saying it would sell 300k its first month.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

And this is also why I'll leave the topic since it gets people quite angry. For what its worth I own both consoles and have since launch. I have no desire to pit one console against the other to prop up one console. I'm fairly honest about my Wii experience. It mostly gathers dust. That doesn't mean other people can't get great enjoyment out of it. But that is a separate issue related to my expectation and desires towards the console and it has nothing really to do with this.

No offense it's because your "opinion" doesn't make any sense.

For your examples you list games that are of production as well as greatly use the Wii's unique controls to be placed on a service where games are priced far less on retail and with a vast majority sell far less than retail games.

 

[Man God]

It came out a few days before Wii Sports Resort. I think the marketing was limited to the Internet and magazines. Marvelous expected 10 times the amount for the fiscal year (in shipped sales). I think it actually performed better in Japan.

I can't believe they didn't try to get the Harvest Moon crowd. I don't know how exactly you advertise to the Harvest Moon crowd, but it's pretty damn huge on Nintendo systems.

Pikmin crowd would have been closer. Of course to do that you'd need Nintendo to advertise and publish it. :lol

I'm frankly amazed HM ever got anywhere. Really late SNES release with some serious problems, and frankly the first game was very hard to find at retail. I guess it was word of mouth and a really decent couple of Nintendo Power articles on it that really got it going. By HM 64 they had the whole advertise to girls gameplan in full motion, and it's pretty much kept its small but devoted audience for the past decade.

 

[Truespeed]

That's not the real story. The console sales order has been set in stone for a while now (at least in North America). The real story is that the PS3 continues to record YoY sales declines. The momentum of the sales declines is staggering. The 360 is holding its own and actually recording sales growth. So, yes, they are the second and third place consoles, but the distance between them is growing each month, and the distance between the 360 and the Wii is shrinking. Sony has lost a lot of ground this year and it's kind of sad to watch them sit on the sidelines without any alternatives.

Hopefully consumers will respond to the Slim and this period is indeed "the calm before the storm."

When you sell a console that's priced $399 and $499 (160GB) you deserve to be in the place you are. How can you expect to compete sales wise with a console that has a SKU that retails for $199? You can't. The $299 PS3 Slim relaunch will be the big test for the PS3. It's now competitively priced and considerably more attractive to the average consumer. If it doesn't take off, then the PS3 is pretty much a write off.

 

[Danthrax]

So:

House of the Dead: Overkill does awesome in Europe but bombs in America.

Madworld bombs in Europe and bombs in America.

The Conduit is bombing in Europe but doing awesome in America.


...so SEGA's next Wii core game will do awesome and Europe and do awesome in America?

Being serious here. It seems that 2 out of 3 SEGA's core Wii games have/are performing up to expectations. So far it may not be ideal but its working and thats more than I could say from SEGA's previous ventures.

@ bolded: LoL hopefully.

But yeah, looks like Sega didn't (completely) screw the pooch with their trio of core Wii games. It's been a while since Sega's had a small victory.

 

[clashfan]

I think the ps3 will slowly recover, it's the wii steep drop in sales that is disturbing.

 

[Stoney Mason]

Never really understood this particular argument about Mad World, though I've heard it several times. Sure it'd probably sell because it's got blood and violence, but not at the price they would probably want to release it at, and why would people want to pick it up on XBLA? Isn't the whole point of it the motion controls? Take those away and the experience loses a whole layer of depth.

I didn't play or own MadWorld so I can't comment but the whole point to me was that it looked cool, it and it seemed violent. The motion controls when I watched that video weren't what got me excited. Not that it couldn't get other people excited but it wasn't what got me excited.

I think a game like that in a general sense would make an awesome XBLA/PSN. I think it could sell quite well by the standards of an XBLA/PSN title. But the reason I dropped the subject is that the sales issue is pure speculation. I even admitted I'm skeptical it could do more total revenue than on the Wii once you take the budget and the marketing or at least I'm not sure. On the simplest level at $15 dollars, any game on XBLA/PSN has to obviously sell more copies than on a Wii title to make more revenue since it costs less although budgets could be different. The actual cut once you factor in the revenue split could be different, etc. Like I said, I'd like to see some real profit statements on these games but obviously we tend to not get things like that and I'll even agree on reflection that devs have the better information available to them so the choices they are making most likely reflect the best evidence they have which is why they make the choices they make. Although I'd still like to play something like Madworld on the 360 at XBLA prices.

Long Live 360! Whoo!

Spoiler

Teasing. Obviously

 

[RBH]

NPD threads are boring now because Sony fanboys have given up.

Except for lowrider007!

 

[SimpleDesign]

@ bolded: LoL hopefully.

But yeah, looks like Sega didn't (completely) screw the pooch with their trio of core Wii games. It's been a while since Sega's had a small victory.

That's because of Sammy. We should all be happy Sega had the chance to go out with a bang last generation.

 

[Stoney Mason]

No offense it's because your "opinion" doesn't make any sense.

For your examples you list games that are of production as well as greatly use the Wii's unique controls to be placed on a service where games are priced far less on retail and with a vast majority sell far less than retail games.

As I said if my opinion is wrong and not factual that could indeed be based on actual ignorance or being wrong on my part. I'm wrong about a lot of things. It's not based on "fanboy-ism" in any sense of trying to attack the Wii and promote the 360 or PS3. You can simply sometimes be wrong without necessarily being a fanboy.

Being wrong doesn't bother me. Being called a potential fanboy does.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

LKS has more content than most HD blockbusters. Saying "oh well you can seel it for $15" is retarded.

Retarded.

I think people really need to get over the idea that an XBLA/PSN release is a slap in the face for *insert title here*.

DD is here, it's a vialbe way to distribute games, and its a viable way to stratify the market for games that people will flat out NOT buy or worse, flat out will NOT be stocked by b&m retailers.

Do you think Castle Crashers even gets 300,000 orders to Gamestop/Best Buy/Walmart?

As a retail title it would've sold 10k then been discontinued.

Downloadable titles (non-indie) don't have to fight for shelf space (they get at least a week on their own or with 1 or 2 other games to shine), have no TV/billboard advertisement budgets to worry about, and are often picked up as impulse purchases because they are under $20.

It's not "retarded" to sell 100,000 copies at $15-20 versus selling 20,000 copies at retail and being thrown in the bargain bin because your game didn't have pre-order appeal. And because the game is probably never going to be taken off of the service, it has the potential to sell for the lifetime of the console/service. They'll never stop "printing" downloads.

You know what game would benefit greatly from a DD release? Muramasa. I fail to see any reason why this game deserves to be buried at retail for $40-$50 when it can reach a larger audience and more sales as a cheaper download.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Pikmin crowd would have been closer. Of course to do that you'd need Nintendo to advertise and publish it. :lol

I'm frankly amazed HM ever got anywhere. Really late SNES release with some serious problems, and frankly the first game was very hard to find at retail. I guess it was word of mouth and a really decent couple of Nintendo Power articles on it that really got it going. By HM 64 they had the whole advertise to girls gameplan in full motion, and it's pretty much kept its small but devoted audience for the past decade.

Harvest Moon for the Gameboy came out a few months later than the SNES version. I know that was the first version I played. A lot of folks might have gotten hooked that way, as the Gameboy was enjoying a bit of a renaissance at that point.

 

[Danthrax]

I didn't play or won MadWorld so I can't comment but the whole point to me was that it looked cool, it and it seemed violent. The motion controls when I watched that video weren't what got me excited. Not that it couldn't get other people excited but it wasn't what got me excited.

it may not look exciting, and I can understand that, but trust me: it is so viscerally satisfying to slam a dude against a wall of spikes by "slamming" him with your Wiimote. I imagine it would feel nowhere near the same if you just pressed the Xbox's A button. that game would lose so much without the motion controls.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Sony was turning it around for most of 08, outselling the 360 for what, 7 or 8 months of the year?

It really wasn't all that entertaining. At least after the first few months that happened. It was almost becoming the norm.

5 months the PS3 outsold the 360 in 08. The PS3 beat the 360 the same month Warner picked Blu-ray ending the format war, then the month after. Showing fence sitters waiting for a format winner so they could buy the best and cheapest Blu-ray player on the market.

Then the next three months that the PS3 beat the 360 it was the month before, the month of, and the month after MGS4 released. Also, the model that was being sold at the time had a free pack in game, had a rumble controller packed in for the first time, AND biggest of all was the very last unit that Sony ever sold that had BC.

And if you read the threads from those months you would have thought that it was the second coming of Christ from the fanboys. PS3 had finally risen to it's proper place and every other system was shit and thank God that "everyone" who said the PS3 would win finally was vindicated....

 

[Cipherr]

"But then this thing [the Wii] came along and presented us with some challenges," he explained. "The dynamics changed with the launch of the Wii--play and fun was coming back in, the demographic was changing enormously, and the amount of time to play was being compressed."

Apparently EA Sports developers viewed Wii Sports as a huge competition, an interactive sports title that came free with the console. Because they were too accustomed in developing detailed games for core gamers, they were unwilling to tackle titles for a general audience, the casual gamer.

A humongous WOW at the bolded, just WOW. Amazingly hilarious, the first part anyway, the second part is sad, but I salute them for it.

As it stands now EA has hits on the Wii, and they have hits on the 360 and PS3 also. Sports Active/TW Wii Madden and NCAA, they are going to be raking in the money if they can maintain this balance. Kudos to them for deciding to shape up and adapt rather than just dieing off, they are going to be so fucking READY for the Natal/PSmote/WM+ area when its gets into full swing. Its going to be fucking amazing. I wish I could say the same about other studios.

Its sad that some folks left or lost their jobs because they were unwilling to adapt to the industry changing a bit. But goddamn if that shouldnt be the expected result for not being willing, or able to be flexible at ALL in your chosen craft. Just the idea of people either placing, or allowing their freaking careers to be placed in limbo because their boss asks for a few bare bones games designs that are more pick-up-n-play and less Roster-update-2010 makes me ill. I KNOW its not that cut and dry, and that I'm likely being completely insensitive. But its an entertainment industry for fucks sake.

I just can't help but wonder what the fuck they expected.

 

[Man God]

Harvest Moon for the Gameboy came out a few months later than the SNES version. I know that was the first version I played. A lot of folks might have gotten hooked that way, as the Gameboy was enjoying a bit of a renaissance at that point.

True enough. I just tend to discount them as they were missing the vital relationship sim that really brought in the expanded audience of female gamers. There was a definite progression between SNES Harvest Moon, the Gameboy and Gameboy Color releases, and HM 64.

 

[GavinGT]

The only thing that can breathe life back into sony now is a slim and a price cut for it to even stand a chance at getting back at just the 360 the wii is long gone now for sony in usa.

PS3 will never surpass 360 in the US. This has already been discussed.

 

[Jonsoncao]

15 pages and no top 20? mayne~~~top 20 pls~~~

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

of course it didnt reach the audience it was intended for. there is no audience
it is a new IP from a not well known publisher that is a difficult, real-time strategy-rpg-sim hybrid with an extremely childish art style.

the game is the definition of niche.

You make it sound as if the publisher expected 12K sales in it's first month.

I think it's a valid question to ask if LKS would be more profitable on XBL/PSN. Maybe that's where niche titles should be. LKS doesn't even really make use of motion controls.

 

[AniHawk]

You know what game would benefit greatly from a DD release? Muramasa. I fail to see any reason why this game deserves to be buried at retail for $40-$50 when it can reach a larger audience and more sales as a cheaper download.

Yeah, Muramasa's gonna crash and burn real good.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Yeah, Muramasa's gonna crash and burn real good.

Oh yeah.

Badly badly.

I'd be surprised and pleased at 50,000 units lifetime for that title.

 

[laserbeam]

Oh yeah.

Badly badly.

I'd be surprised and pleased at 50,000 units lifetime for that title.

Dont worry when the HD port comes out 5 people will buy it boosting lifetime sales to 55. The shooter boxes are gonna embrace that shit like crazy +5 sales

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Dont worry when the HD port comes out 5 people will buy it boosting lifetime sales to 55. The shooter boxes are gonna embrace that shit like crazy +5 sales

Yeah boy!

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Dont worry when the HD port comes out 5 people will buy it boosting lifetime sales to 55. The shooter boxes are gonna embrace that shit like crazy +5 sales

Yeah, no 2D games have ever sold well on XBLA/PSN.

Its sad that some folks left or lost their jobs because they were unwilling to adapt to the industry changing a bit. But goddamn if that shouldnt be the expected result for not being willing, or able to be flexible at ALL in your chosen craft. Just the idea of people either placing, or allowing their freaking careers to be placed in limbo because their boss asks for a few bare bones games designs that are more pick-up-n-play and less Roster-update-2010 makes me ill. I KNOW its not that cut and dry, and that I'm likely being completely insensitive. But its an entertainment industry for fucks sake.

I just can't help but wonder what the fuck they expected.

Bit of an extreme example, but if you joined EA hoping to the be the next Will Wright or develop the next new well-received Dead Space-esque IP or even just put more sparks in FIFA/Madden, to suddenly be told you're doing fitness games would probably make you rethink your career path, at least with EA.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Yeah, Muramasa's gonna crash and burn real good.

I know. It's predecessor only became a greatest hits title, outsold nearly every JRPG not associated with Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts since this gens start, and was one of Atlus USA's best selling games of all-time. Bomba for sure.

 

[laserbeam]

Yeah, no 2D games have ever sold well on XBLA/PSN.

Muramasa when it comes will not be a XBLA/PSN title.

 

[Volcynika]

Yeah, Muramasa's gonna crash and burn real good.

I'll chuckle a bit if it does end up bombing (high chance)

 

[markatisu]

Dont worry when the HD port comes out 5 people will buy it boosting lifetime sales to 55. The shooter boxes are gonna embrace that shit like crazy +5 sales

Seriously, everyone says bring it to XBLA/PSN but the game will still be niche as hell and people will go from bitching about it being on the Wii to bitching about the cost of it on a download service.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Muramasa when it comes will not be a XBLA/PSN title.

They would never release this game at retail for either HD console.

 

[GhaleonQ]

Dont worry when the HD port comes out 5 people will buy it boosting lifetime sales to 55. The shooter boxes are gonna embrace that shit like crazy +5 sales

Yeah, but are you accounting for the +10 real sales created by message board threads in which people pretend they've played it? Cover all your bases!

Also, fair warning: I'm going to be such a prick in the future official Pikmin 3 thread. It's deterministic at this point. Little King's Story! Buy it!

 

[jvm]

15 pages and no top 20? mayne~~~top 20 pls~~~

Top 20 is usually sent out mid-day on Friday. Patience.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Seriously, everyone says bring it to XBLA/PSN but the game will still be niche as hell and people will go from bitching about it being on the Wii to bitching about the cost of it on a download service.

I think most are saying bringing it to XBLA/PSN will help niche titles find a larger audience and potentially better profits.

 

[laserbeam]

Developers need to get a clue with these more niche style games on Wii. They cannot approach the Wii as if 99% of the userbase is hardcore magazine/website readers.

They need to advertise the games to get the games known otherwise they will always just fail. Of course that does not mean every niche game will be a success but it would certainly give it a better shot.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Developers need to get a clue with these more niche style games on Wii. They cannot approach the Wii as if 99% of the userbase is hardcore magazine/website readers.

They need to advertise the games to get the games known otherwise they will always just fail. Of course that does not mean every niche game will be a success but it would certainly give it a better shot.

You don't pump significant advertising dollars in to niche games. That's how companies go out of business.

Wouldn't word of mouth on XBLA/PSN be better?

 

[laserbeam]

You don't pump significant advertising dollars in to niche games. That's how companies go out of business.

Wouldn't word of mouth on XBLA/PSN be better?

Would need to sell well enough for word of mouth to take effect. Developers should not act shocked when a title is sent to die does just that yet thats what we always see

 

[charlequin]

I'd be surprised and pleased at 15,000 units lifetime for that title.

Too generous.

 

[Busaiku]

I know. It's predecessor only became a greatest hits title, outsold nearly every JRPG not associated with Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts since this gens start, and was one of Atlus USA's best selling games of all-time. Bomba for sure.

I don't know what's up with it becoming a Greatest Hits title.
The sales of it (through January at least) certainly didn't indicate it selling near the amount necessary for it.

And it certainly didn't outsell almost every JRPG that's not Final Fantasy or Kingdom Hearts.
Persona 4 wasn't too far behind it, and it was only in the market for two months.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

Would need to sell well enough for word of mouth to take effect. Developers should not act shocked when a title is sent to die does just that yet thats what we always see

My guess is if you're title is going to bomb, my guess is its less expensive if it's a downloadable title.