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NPD Sales Results for June 2009

bhhawks78

Banned
Opiate said:
While true, there are some other factors to consider, BCN. The quality of the PS3 library is quite high for hardcore gamers. The system is very expensive. The system has a comparatively low install base.

All of these factors should be driving attach rate. It's a hardcore oriented system with a high price tag and a low adoption rate. Those are ideal circumstances for extremely good software attach rates.

I'd argue that the PS3 should be doing better than "in line with attach rate expectations," given the context.


There are two factor i think that really dig into their attach rates.
Like it or not when it released alot of people like my parents bought it only for Blu ray, not in the tens of millions like the ps2 but still a percentage, but i have no clue if it's 5% or 20%.

The ps3 owners who buy all their multiplatform games for 360 due to XBL, friends prefering/only owning 360s, no mandatory install, controller/gamerscore preference, and sadly oftentimes much better looking versions of the game i.e. ghostbusters as this months example.
 

Jokeropia

Member
Jtyettis said:
In terms of dollars sold it's pretty clear.
But we're not talking "dollars sold", we're talking games sold.
Revelations said:
I hate to be the one that tells you this. But the wii's userbase is 85% mom & pop wii sportsters, fitness junkies, wii players and 15% Nintendo [ONLY] fans.
According to NPD, Wii's installed base is 71% PS2 owners.
 
Pseudo_Sam said:

reggieshrug.gif
 

Mrbob

Member
I'm glad to see pcworld call out Aaron Greenberg with his 73 percent increase in xbox live paid transactions omg!!!! Also called him out on his 17 of 20 million xbox live users have downloaded content...big props to you Matt Peckham of pcworld. I wish you would handle interviews for all the big 3. Good job at hitting Greenberg hard on disclosing actual data instead of taking his percentage pr bs talk at face value.

It really sucks not knowing what raw numbers are for any digital downloads. The easiest thing to do is spin percentages.
 

Jin

Member
Whenever I look at these NPD numbers I always check out the PS2 sales and the numbers never cease to amaze me.
 
One thing to note. PS3 software sales are NOT in line with the install base. They're below.

This is further compounded by the fact that the 360 is outpacing the PS3 in install-base growth.

You'll have some games like FN4 and UFC do well on both systems, but for mid-range games like Prototype and Red Faction, at what point does it stop making sense?
 

Jokeropia

Member
Revelations said:
People who bought a wii and ONLY plays wii play. Theres more than likely over 15 million of them in US alone. [of course im exaggerating that number but given the software sales may not be that far off]
That would mean that the ones that don't just play Wii Play buys A LOT more games than the typical 360 owner.
Revelations said:
That cant be true. PS2 owners actually embraced third party diversity.
1.) It is true.
2.) PS2 got much better third party support right from the start than Wii.
 

Rolf NB

Member
Evlar said:
While true, this is just emphasizing Sony's install base problem. I don't see that it makes anyone at Sony or third party publishers happy to know that they can expect about 50% of the sales they will see on the 360.

I don't know at what point the platform starts losing its viability as a money-maker for ports and multi-plats. It's at 54% total software sales per month compared against 360right now. I would guess it can go lower, but how much?
For the time being it's as you say, a reasonable general expectation for PS3 multiplat sales is half of whatever the Xbox 360 version sells.

PS3 share has actually been on the rise again since February, after the Xbox 360 price drop had put a five-month dent into that, but motions in share are slow enough at this point that it doesn't matter much either way, due to low volumes.

Price drops are the only thing that can affect the status quo.
And I don't mean to say that only a PS3 drop can have an impact. If/how quickly Microsoft acts or reacts on pricing will of course matter too (just like it did last year).
 

FrankT

Member
Jokeropia said:
But we're not talking "dollars sold", we're talking games sold.
According to NPD, Wii's installed base is 71% PS2 owners.

Obviously Aaron Greenberg is and the SW we have available over 20k is still higher. While you may want to make the extrapolation that somehow the under 20k crowd made it up for it in light of the higher dollar sales have it. It’s a stretch nonetheless.
 
Firestorm said:
Isn't Modern Warfare 2 coming to Wii according to that other thread?
How the he'll do you people expect The Conduit to sell 500k to 2 mil with that? I see it finishing off at 200k tops and that's in the far future

Who expects the Conduit to sell 500k to 2mil? Show me these people

The game would be lucky to surpass 200k anytime soon. By that time I'd imagine the spin will go from "yea we buy mature titles not from Capcom or Nintendo" to "hey the game made a profit!"
 

Opiate

Member
Alright, Stoney, I opened this can of worms so I'll respond once more, but if we'd like to keep discussing it I'd rather take it to PM.

I agree with all of the reasons you just described (particularly the first: I think many people are just used to a traditional controller, and learning a new one doesn't sound fun. That's clearly the reason why some don't prefer PC controls).

I would just state that it's completely fine to analyze things in a vacuum. I'm not suggesting that superior controls (if they are superior) should equate to everyone going out and buying that version of the game, regardless: I'm just saying there are superior controls. The end.

Whether people prefer the version with superior controls is another story, as you say, and another discussion in itself. I just want to see if we can establish that the controls are superior, before we get in to a much larger discussion. Using your "do not examine in a vacuum" methodology, we could literally never examine the motivations for consumers picking certain products. If someone picks Pepsi instead of Coke, why is that? To figure out why, we'd have to examine all of the qualities of Pepsi and Coke individually. Do people prefer the color of the Coke can? The sweetness of the Pepsi? The Six Flags coupons on every Coke?

None of these questions by itself answers the question: "Why did I choose Coke and not Pepsi?" They are part of a composite. However, in this case, I'm not asking "Why do you prefer CoD 360 to CoD Wii or PC?" I'm asking a much simpler question: "Do you think the Wii or the 360 version has superior controls?" If we wanted to get in to the larger discussion, we could, and I completely agree that many, if not most, would consider the possible benefits of the 360 version (better graphics and presentation, larger online community) to outweigh the possible benefits of a Wii version (controls). However, I really don't want to get in to this larger discussion, because the simpler question has already taken up a page of this thread.
 

theBishop

Banned
Omar Ismail said:
One thing to note. PS3 software sales are NOT in line with the install base. They're below.

This is further compounded by the fact that the 360 is outpacing the PS3 in install-base growth.

You'll have some games like FN4 and UFC do well on both systems, but for mid-range games like Prototype and Red Faction, at what point does it stop making sense?

You don't think this is an anomaly in a month where PS3 got an exclusive open world game that is widely considered to be the best of the 3?

PS3 3rd party games generally sell proportional to install base (see RE5).
 

Rolf NB

Member
Omar Ismail said:
That's not how you use attach rates.
Attach rates are for ALL consoles sold, not just the specific month.

So there have been 15Million * 8.6 games sold for 360 since day one.
In june it was 2.51M software units.

Cap eesh?
Microsoft issued statements with "monthly" attach rates many, many times before. Source a clarification on the numbers or GTFO.
 
Jokeropia said:
That would mean that the ones that don't just play Wii Play buys A LOT more games than the typical 360 owner.1.) It is true.
2.) PS2 got much better third party support right from the start than Wii.
They buy alot more NINTENDO games than the typical 360 owner. I'd buy that...

manueldelalas said:
I see, denial phase...
Denial of...?
 

xbhaskarx

Member
Revelations said:
I hate to be the one that tells you this. But the wii's userbase is 85% mom & pop wii sportsters, fitness junkies, wii players and 15% Nintendo [ONLY] fans.

So it's okay to say this when it's to justify disappointing software sales?
 
Opiate said:
Alright, Stoney, I opened this can of worms so I'll respond once more, but if we'd like to keep discussing it I'd rather take it to PM.

"Do you think the Wii or the 360 version has superior controls?"

I responded to your post before you had mentioned we should close it. That was already up there and I agree we should leave the topic. I will respond to one final thing. I believe the question you are asking is moot though. It's fine for discussion on a messageboard but that's not the actual question the masses ask themselves when they go buy games or consoles. That is what a hardcore segment that populates message boards and makes up a niche of the audience asks. That's sort of my larger point with this. That in reality there is very little buying motivation based on superior aiming. Especially when the buying patterns clearly show this trend.

But I digress.
 

FrankT

Member
bcn-ron said:
Microsoft issued statements with "monthly" attach rates many, many times before. Source a clarification on the numbers or GTFO.

Not real hard to grasp. Each of these consoles have a running LTD attach ratio. That is how many games have sold per console LTD. That number can be very much different than the monthly average attach rate. That is why when we see the over 20k leaked numbers we see a total of 2.51 million alone. That would mean for the month the attach rate is higher (than the overall LTD attach rate) in ratio to the amount of HW sold for the month. Two very different concepts.
 

sonicmj1

Member
bcn-ron said:
Microsoft issued statements with "monthly" attach rates many, many times before. Source a clarification on the numbers or GTFO.

Someone proved the numbers were right on the last page, just by adding the totals on all the games that NPD released.
 

bhhawks78

Banned
Jokeropia said:
That would mean that the ones that don't just play Wii Play buys A LOT more games than the typical 360 owner..

Why is that surprising? Madworld, Klonoa, Hotd overkill, punchout pre title defense, a ton of the good wii games are just VERY short.

Wii play, wii sports, mario kart, Smash brothers, rock band/guitar hero, wii fit/ea active, all multiplayer or "daily" games that are never "done".

Stuff like RE5, prototype, fable 2, infamous, games that unless you are a HUGE fan, when they end...they end, they are "disposable".
 

Evlar

Banned
Omar Ismail said:
That's not how you use attach rates.
Attach rates are for ALL consoles sold, not just the specific month.

So there have been 15Million * 8.6 games sold for 360 since day one.
In june it was 2.51M software units.

Cap eesh?
In my defense I was thrown off by the MS rep stating that these were attach rates for June. To me that appears to be a different point than attach rates for the system lifetime.
 

damisa

Member
Jokeropia said:
According to NPD, Wii's installed base is 71% PS2 owners.

That number is very outdated (july 2008?). At that time the wii install base was about the same as the gamecube install base. I wouldn't be surprised if a large part of that 71% owned both a gamecube and PS2 last gen.
 

Touchdown

Banned
bcn-ron said:
Has the DSlite been discounted in the US since the DSi introduction? Would it be unfair to deduce that 45% of US DS customers are interested in piracy?

meh, I don't know. But then you could say something like 45% of PS3 customers are only interested in blu-ray movies.
 

Vinci

Danish
damisa said:
That number is very outdated (july 2008?). At that time the wii install base was about the same as the gamecube install base. I wouldn't be surprised if a large part of that 71% owned both a gamecube and PS2 last gen.

Multi-console ownership is not as common as you think.
 
Revelations said:
ah ok, ill edit. thanks.

I know its silly since the numbers are out everywhere but GAF has that weird deal with the NPD. I don't know if its cool or not but it hasn't been in the past. I won't pretend to know their official stance on these numbers. Just warning you.

Although people have been discussing it all over the thread so the cat is out of the bag anyway I suppose.
 

jehuty

Member
Shame "The Conduit" sales weren't a little bit better. HVS actually tried and even though it is a very average game (amirox can back me up on this), they were the only developer that actually tried on the Wii (as of now). Hopefully sales for the game picks up and a sequel will be warranted. I think HVS may have something big on their hands, they just need improvement in some areas.

I come to sales age not to justify my purchase, but to see how some games that i think deserve high esteem did numbers wise. I like seeing developers succeed (hell, my favorite game of all time did kinda bad numbers wise 'Super Metroid').

August Npd won't have much in the way of surprises. I actually think the top 5 games will all be games for the Wii with WSR being at the top.

When it comes to controls in Fps Kb/m is king. For the console folks, Pointer controls are superior to dual analog. This will all be a non issue once Sony wand and Natal come out. The death of the gamepad is at hand.
 

Rolf NB

Member
Evlar said:
In my defense I was thrown off by the MS rep stating that these were attach rates for June. To me that appears to be a different point than attach rates for the system lifetime.
Same. The quote was specifically "in June", and they've done that before, so it seemed pretty clear. I'm confused now. Apparently the 2.51M thrown around is also incomplete (sum that lacks anything sub-20kish)?
 

Jokeropia

Member
Jtyettis said:
Obviously Aaron Greenberg is
Right, which is why what he says doesn't fully apply to the issue at hand.
Jtyettis said:
and the SW we have available over 20k is still higher. While you may want to make the extrapolation that somehow the under 20k crowd made it up for it in light of the higher dollar sales have it. It’s a stretch nonetheless.
It's higher by 200k. Dollar sales say almost nothing in this case since 360 games have 10$ higher MSRP than Wii games and most of the sub 20k group are likely budget games with even lower price.
Revelations said:
They buy alot more NINTENDO games than the typical 360 owner. I'd buy that...
They buy a lot more games period. If 15 million Wii owners got nothing but Wii Play then the remaining 5 million bought roughly 23 games each. Compare that to the 8.6 games purchased by the typical 360 owner.
 

bhhawks78

Banned
jehuty said:
When it comes to controls in Fps Kb/m is king. For the console folks, Pointer controls are superior to dual analog. This will all be a non issue once Sony wand and Natal come out. The death of the gamepad is at hand.

NEVER *giant bomb voice*
 

gerg

Member
Revelations said:
They buy alot more NINTENDO games than the typical 360 owner. I'd buy that...

Except, up until recently (including last year), total third-party software sales on the Wii were the highest of any current-gen console.

The PS2 was comprised of a whole bunch of people who didn't care about games in the same way that the Wii is.
 

jibblypop

Banned
Revelations said:
I hate to be the one that tells you this. But the wii's userbase is 85% mom & pop wii sportsters, fitness junkies, wii players and 15% Nintendo [ONLY] fans.

You know...
usually when you want to make a generalization based on your own guess, it's best to use terms like "most of..." or "a lot of..." and so on.

When you use specific percentages, it makes it seem like a fact and not just speculation. Last I checked though, "your ass" is not a credible source to pull statistics from.
 

Opiate

Member
Revelations said:
People have been saying that for quite some time now.

Since the Wii came out, essentially.

The question is: did we create the situation, or did the situation create itself? It has to be a bit of both.

It's a bit like the FPS situation on Wii. Clearly, The Conduit did not do particularly well. Is this because there is some inherent, natural "anti FPS" property the Wii exudes? I would argue that this isn't the case: in fact, I'd argue that's absurd. Instead, I'd argue that the Conduit didn't sell very well because the audience for such games isn't on the Wii. In turn, the reason that the audience for such games isn't on the Wii is because all the great shooters of this generation -- of which there have been quite a few, including very high profile ones -- have been on the 360 and PS3. Why would a shooter fan focus on the Wii? The reasons to do so are scant.

The point is, you seem to be implying that the Wii audience is some immutable force. For example, your reference to "Wii Players" suggests that they are some inherent property of the Wii. Instead, I'd argue that the Wii doesn't sell as many third party games because so few high quality third party games have been made for the system, and not because people who buy the Wii have some aversion to third party games. Who has an aversion to good third party games? Heck, how many people even know what the term "third party game" even means? I'd wager that most casual players would have no conception of what the term implies.

Now, ultimately I reach the same conclusion as you do: the Wii is not the place for high profile, third party games now. But where you seem to imply this is because the Wii has some sort of anti-third-party forcefield, I reach the much more logical conclusion that it's because third parties spent billions of dollars establishing their brands on the PS3/360, and it would be stupid to force their fanbase over to the Wii at this point.
 
jehuty said:
This will all be a non issue once Sony wand and Natal come out. The death of the gamepad is at hand.

So absolutely lol worthy it's hilarious. This is why we don't need to discuss the issue in this thread.
 

Rolf NB

Member
Vinci said:
Multi-console ownership is not as common as you think.
Has any research on this been publicized lately? I have a really hard time believing the 1% multi-system ownership ratio quoted by Nintendo ages ago can still be accurate ... or ever has been actually (I have a hunch they ignored [active] PS2 ownership).
 
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