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NPD Sales Results for June 2009
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
JoshuaJSlone
Member
After June 2008, the average PS3 owner had owned their system 0.6 weeks more than the average Wii owner. Since such a major percentage of Wii's total is from November 2008 - March 2009, though, while PS3 was having a down time relative to the year before, a larger percentage of Wii's owners are recent additions and this has changed. After June 2009, the average PS3 owner has owned their system 5.3 weeks more than the average Wii owner. So apparently in the ~4.7 extra weeks the average PS3 has gained relative to the average Wii in the past year, the owner bought an extra 0.6 games.Opiate said:
To give some more numbers to make this more believable rather than just me appearing to pull stats out of air, and since I specifically pointed out November 2008 as a starting point...
PS3 November 2008 - June 2009: 2.22 M
PS3 total: 7.91 M
Percent of PS3 owners that bought theirs November 2008 or later: 28%
Wii November 2008 - June 2009: 7.21 M
Wii total: 20.57 M
Percent of Wii owners that bought theirs November 2008 or later: 35%
On both fronts, I really enjoy how New Super Mario Bros. took some moves from 3D Mario, while Super Mario Galaxy made a 3D game that managed to have straightforward paths reminiscent of 2D Mario.AniHawk said:
Randy Lanzarote
Member
:/
rpmurphy said:
Nintendo has done all it can to bring the DS's system sellers on the Wii. They transplanted the driving forces behind the DS on the Wii with mixed success.
Mario Kart Wii is as successful on the DS as it was on the Wii. Mario Party is perhaps even more popular on the Wii than the DS. Brain Training hasn't been anywhere as successful on the Wii as it was on the DS. However, Wii Fit has proved itself to be the muscle-bound answer to the handheld Brain Training. 3D Mario is about just as successful on the Wii (Galaxy) as it was on the DS (SM64 DS). They've both failed to be a strong driver of hardware. Animal Crossing Wii is nowhere near the the DS version in sales. Similarly, Pokemon and a hypothetical Nintendogs Wii would have the same problems.
Nintendo realized that the reason why some of those games didn't do as well on the DS as the did was due to how they were tailored to the DS's capabilities. They need to get the best-selling DS games on to the Wii that aren't dependent on the DS's functionality and portability (Mario Kart and 2D Mario) and make Wii games that make good use of the motion-control capabilities of the system.
The plan with Wii Sports Resort/Motion Plus is to expand the level of interaction between the game and the player. It's purpose is to raise the userbase of the Wii (in a roundabout way) by eliminating more barriers and creating titles that make better use of motion controls. Motion Plus is aimed at the remaining 'maybe' members of the expanded audience since Nintendo believes there are still some barriers remaining (the Vitality Sensor is also targeted at the 'maybe' audience but it'll probably try to capture the 'never' audience)/
It's also a response to motion controls by their competitors. While their competitors will attempt to get their feet wet in uncharted territory, Nintendo will further expand and master the capabilities of the Wii. It's an attempt to make their competitors irrelevant since they will deliver improved motion controls in the hands of consumers well before the competition. They will be dictating the play when it comes to motion controls through more support and mindshare. A war of motion controls is a war of first-parties, in which Nintendo is the clear favorite.
There strategy with Wii Fit Plus is establish the balance board as a legitimate console through continued exclusive support of the peripheral. This would further differentiate the Wii from the typical videogame system but also garner support for the Balance Board, which could be considered the most intimate user-interface for the Wii. The balance board is a system that has so much untapped potential, which we have seen with Majesco's Ultimate Fitness and more recently with EA Sports Active. Nintendo could essentially reinvent a genre in which Microsoft and Sony would find difficult to penetrate and create a stable environment on their platforms.
I also have a sneaking suspicion they might push multi-player with Wii Fit Plus. The advertisements for the game have a lot more people using the balance board. A number of them have people posing in unison rather than engaging in different activities (as on the cover of the Wii Fit Box). In contrast, the ads for the first Wii Fit typically had one person using the balance board. The mini-games have the perfect view for multiple players. It's also going to be released in standalone and bundled SKUs. Then again, I could looking too much into nothing since there isn't much information about the game's multiplayer capabilities.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Perhaps I got the wrong impression from something 1-2 years ago, but I thought there was a technical limit of 1 BB being able to connect to a Wii at a time.Johann said:
Johann said:
I thought that the Balance Board acted as another Wii Remote, so to speak, in that it took the place of another Wii Remote in the Wii's Bluetooth connections. As a result, I always thought that using multiple Balance Boards simultaneously was impossible.
Edit: What JoshuaJSlone said.
AceBandage
Banned
duk said:
Well, Sega will have bought Nintendo by then, so it's possible.
professor_t said:
And it's not selling much SW either. The "active" install base of the PS2 mostly moved on to newer and better things. Right now, the PS3 gets a good amount of SW because companies have managed to build "HD" development environment for 360/PS3 games. In 3 years, there is a good possibility that MS will have a new console on the market, and that developers will move to it (especially considering how the "first mover advantage" worked well for MS this time around). Whatever little SW releases the PS2 gets now it gets because of its enormous marketshare last generation. Somehow I doubt the PS3 will get even that paltry amount of support.
And if monkeys start flying out of my butt, there is a legitimate chance the exit pressure can propel me a couple kilometers away and I can break a couple world records in the process.
charlequin
Banned
gerg said:
I don't see any reason to take this as a serious statement rather than treating it like hyperbolic posturing the way we do similar statements from the other hardware manufacturers. Sure, in a perfect world Nintendo would prefer to never price drop their hardware; in the world of reality, it's very likely that they'll be forced to do so at some point down the road.
gerg said:
I think you're right to some degree, but on the other hand, I think Nintendo really needs to improve their mindshare with this group. It's this group that makes up a lot of the bloggers, podcast crews, reviewers, forum posters, etc. As of now, I think the Wii image is pretty horrible with this crowd and has been for sometime, but that negativity is starting the break out into even the non-gaming section. I don't know how many times I've heard someone say the Wii has crappy games or "I've heard the Wii has bad games". You can't even make a Wii thread on forums without a bunch of trolls jumping in. The DS doesn't have this kind of hate and Nintendo needs to do something about it with regards to the Wii.
The 360 is just trucking along, but the best thing about it is the general idea that it has the best games and is a great system to own. The same can't be said about the Wii and it's games. I don't know what Nintendo can do about it, but they need to do something to improve the Wii's image. In some ways, I think this is just the Gamecube all over again.
charlequin said:
I agree in that if push comes to shove, Nintendo would rather make a price cut than let sales dwindle and fall, and that eventually, push will come to shove. I just believe that they'd rather explore all software opportunities so that they can sell a Wii and a game for $300 in a month before they cut the price so that they can sell immediately a Wii on its own for $200.
I imagine that these kinds of statements, when coming from Nintendo, are different than when they come from Microsoft or Sony because Nintendo actually has the in-house development teams that can create the kind of software that sells systems.
EDarkness said:
I don't think Nintendo cares what a bunch of nerdy gamers on the internet says about its consoles. They can't hear you over the sound of the money fight.
In an ideal world, Nintendo would want everyone to love it and buy its products. In the real world, this would mean they'd have to auction off the gold thrones they sit on every day. It's not worth it.
It's not like Nintendo's doing nothing to appeal to these gamers - they are producing Metroid: Other M and Metroid Prime Trilogy after all. Of course, I imagine they could always do more, but they're not going to refocus completely their corporate strategy to achieve it.
For many people the Wii is a great system with the best games. 50 million people seem assured in this.
Yeah, by new audiences I just mean those who haven't purchased a Wii. Even if we consider the multiconsole owners, the current market share difference between the Wii and 360+PS3 is not insignificant. There is a sizable chunk of the population that currently have not bought a Wii and can be enticed by grabbing exclusivity to traditional franchises. DQ and MH are some titles that can capture a good number of that population in Japan, and I just don't see the evidence that shows a similar effort is being put forth in NA where shooters and action games are strong.gerg said:
By compelling titles on the DS, I mean those that are designed with the DS's strengths in mind -- portability and personalization. We've seen countless such titles on the DS from Nintendo from Nintendogs, Brain Training, Animal Crossing (the current AC gameplay is suited best on a handheld, doesn't mean it can't be changed to perform better on the console platform), Clubhouse Games, Cooking Training, Wagamama/Style Savvy, Tomodatchi Connection, etc. Many of these games were not big on handhelds or even as video games in the first place before them.
But on the Wii side, there are few that I see that capture some of its strengths that brought them tremendous success with the nongaming crowd -- local multiplayer and use of body motion in gameplay. Perhaps the Wii Music flop has gotten to Nintendo really hard, but they shouldn't give up with such endeavors because they will certainly hit things right sometime and will hit it big. Hopefully for Nintendo, their Vitality Sensor thing will add another good kickstart to the Wii hype, because sequels to Wii Sports and Wii Fit will only get them so far (and Iwata already knows this is becoming red ocean territory).
manueldelalas
Time Traveler
This is just a theory, but I think grabbing these two games is very important for Nintendo Worldwide, and I'll explain why.rpmurphy said:
These franchises are really great game in Japan, so they must have something in them that is very attractive to gamers. By securing those titles, and publishing them outside of Japan, I think Nintendo is trying to have the next "big thing" in the world. We've seen several phenomenons in gaming (and other things) coming straight from Japan, and all that is needed is a big push.
Imagine what is the cost of securing those Japan only hits and compare that to the cost of securing worldwide proven franchises; I think the cost of securing DQ and MH is significantly lower than securing MGS, FF or GTA (or even the GTA expansion).
Now imagine if those franchises go a really big marketing push in both Europe and the USA. They are potentially big hits; MH could become the next Pokemon, and DQ could surpass in popularity all of the other JRPG with the exception of FF. It's something thats never been done to neither franchise, and from the interviews it appears that part of the exclusive deals for both games included these big marketing push.
Sure, there is no an NPD forum war to be won for getting those two games exclusive, but I think they could be really big, because they are a success somewhere in the world, and I really don't think japanese tastes are all that different.
rpmurphy said:
I don't know what you mean by this.
Except that the number of people who like FPSs is dwarfed by the number of people that don't. I agree that Nintendo isn't making a strong effort to attract these gamers, but I don't see the financial incentive as to why they should. As I've said before, it would cost literally billions of dollars to attract this group - not only do you have to convince 360/PS3 owners to buy another console, but also people who don't own any consoles to choose the Wii over the Xbox 360. The only way I can imagine this happening that doesn't involve buying a huge tidal wave of support is if these gamers start caring about motion controls, and developers start caring about them as well so that they can make the games for the audience. And, if Nintendo's not willing to spend money to assure this, it would be a long process that wouldn't benefit the Wii in the first place. I imagine Nintendo actually sees it as an inevitability, and would rather force this demographic to come to them freely rather than spending the money to produce the content for it.
In short, Nintendo doesn't need the 18-35 male demographic at the moment, so it doesn't feel the need to spend the money to gain it.
WSR is the showcase title for greater interaction between the player and the console, Wii Fit Plus uses the same Balance Board that Wii Fit championed, and the major selling point of NSMB Wii seems to be its local multiplayer (and relative accessibility in contrast to Super Mario Galaxy).
Why do you think they have?
I'm not trying to debate what you're saying here, but you make it sound like Nintendo's admitting defeat. I imagine they found the relative flop of Wii Music sobering, but hopefully they'll use it to better their next attempts at creating another break out hit.
The way I see it, WSR and Wii Fit Plus are attempts at getting the audience that is considering buying a Wii to finally make that purchase. You're right in that the Vitality Sensor seems to be a more direct attempt at expanding this pool of people, although I think that NSMB Wii will have success in both regards.
manueldelalas said:
I'm pretty sure securing Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter was similar to Microsoft getting FFXIII, in that, if they don't move to this platform, chances of profitability are low. Dragon Quest has always gone to the leader of the generation, and Nintendo is leading in every single region. In Japan, all home consoles have sluggish sales, even the Wii is struggling (though nothing compared to PS3 and 360).
I disagree in that Nintendo will give them a worldwide push, as I think Nintendo simply doesn't care, and really, when was the last time Nintendo gave either a new IP, or in this case, an IP that is very new in the western mindset, (outside of their "wii" lineup) a huge marketing push? When was the last time they gave a huge marketing push for a third party game? When was the last time they did that for both a third party game, as well a fresh IP? I honestly cannot remember. I think nintendo is simply far too conservative to do something like that.
Lastly, in the case of FF, GTA, and MGS, I think FF and GTA were easily secured for multiplatform release, though probably extremely expensive for exclusive launch. Still, 2 of the three have gone multiplatform, and I'm 90% sure the only reason MGS isn't on the 360 is probably because it was built from the very ground up for the PS3 and probably wouldn't translate very well on the 360 (let alone the 50GB worth of space the game uses).
Also, have numbers been released for the Conduit? I've only a couple pages so far, so I'm not sure if there was a link somewhere in the thread.
NSMB Wii is a solid effort for a 2D Mario console game, but I think the fundamental appeal is limited so I don't believe it's a system-mover. But being released in the holidays is going to be nothing less than successful for the game, and if that can build word-of-mouth and continued marketing push after the holidays (I don't expect anything less from Nintendo), then it should sell quite well.onipex said:
@manueldelalas:
With the past performance of DQ and MH franchises in the West, I'd find it really hard to believe it will be a different story for DQX and MH3.
charlequin said:
While a price drop is certainly possible, I find it more likely that Nintendo releases a new Wii version and raise the price. They have done a very good job of this with the DS (with the help of releasing key software titles at a constant rate). If Nintendo lowers the Wii price, they kind of admit they failed expanding the market further.
But again, I don't think a price drop is out of the question.
I think Nintendo's greatest problem this generation is that they have not had a true killer-app that has taken full advantage of the motion controller and been a fully featured game. It seems like the games that take full advantage of the controller are wii sports (really shallow, and honestly, a mimicry of familiar actions that we could do without the controller) and wii fit (which really isn't much of a "game" in the traditional sense, it's much more of a tool to get "fit" and balance yourself, etc.). To me, that really limits their blue ocean strategy as there are millions of people who are not completely idiotic, who have played games like mario, where there are levels, there is an end goal, etc., whose biggest barrier to entry is the controller.
I think the current "system sellers" Nintendo has lined up only appeal to the current base:
Mario's appeal overlaps with SMG and people interested in the wii won't get one because of a game that doesn't have an emphasis on motion controls
SMG2 is same as above.
WSR is the same sort of thing as wii sports, if you want wii sports resort, you probably already have one.
Honestly, I think the system seller the wii needs to drive this machine back to record levels is to have a fully featured light-saber or sword fighting game (with fully featured mechanics, no half-assed ports).
Of course, this whole post was just a random shot in the dark, but I think that this is the biggest limiting factor for Nintendo right now (not that they aren't having great success).
I think the current "system sellers" Nintendo has lined up only appeal to the current base:
Mario's appeal overlaps with SMG and people interested in the wii won't get one because of a game that doesn't have an emphasis on motion controls
SMG2 is same as above.
WSR is the same sort of thing as wii sports, if you want wii sports resort, you probably already have one.
Honestly, I think the system seller the wii needs to drive this machine back to record levels is to have a fully featured light-saber or sword fighting game (with fully featured mechanics, no half-assed ports).
Of course, this whole post was just a random shot in the dark, but I think that this is the biggest limiting factor for Nintendo right now (not that they aren't having great success).
Here:gerg said:
bcn-ron said:Updated
~23M 360/PS3 owners in the US (minus some small percentage of Wii/360 or Wii/PS3 owners) is not an insignificant number, and that is why I don't agree with the idea that doing some investment with that demographic is not a worthwhile endeavor. Why wouldn't Nintendo want to have its platform be the seller for many of the top NPD charting games that are currently only 360/PS3?Leondexter said:
NSMB is an anomaly in the recent slate of sales of Mario platformers and I don't think you could extrapolate that to others, even to one with the same name.
rpmurphy said:
Ultimately, I agree that Nintendo would love those gamers buying its platforms.
But why would Nintendo want to spend billions of dollars attracting an audience that it is doing perfectly fine without? I don't imagine that even the PS2 had the majority of those gamers. (Maybe, perhaps, half of them.) I genuinely believe that in the long haul (and I'm talking far into the long term here) those gamers will gravitate to the philosophies Nintendo is championing now, so their concern should be more about what to do then, rather than ensuring the inevitable.
My point is that it's too late for Nintendo to get any decent amount of these gamers to its platforms, so why spend all the money when the chance of success is so low?
It's not about the name, but about the concept.
For some reason - be it nostalgia or accessibility or any other factor - people prefer a 2D Mario game to a 3D Mario game. Why would they enjoy less another 2D Mario game that also allows them to have the shared social experiences they have enjoyed with other games? Heck, even SMG sold just under 10 million copies.
Of course, they simply cannot capture all of it at once, but they simply need to start with one or two key franchises and work from there. It's something they should have done much earlier in this generation, but they're in a much worse position now.gerg said:
Of course, I never doubted its selling capability, but that was never my point of contention. Mario is as strong as a brand can get, but not all of its titles move systems like others do and I have my doubts about NSMB Wii as I think it's more of a game that people would buy after they already bought a Wii for something else. But its holiday release is very good timing and it should have mutual benefit with console sales.
Freeza Under The Shower
Member
charlequin said:
Just one problem: the day Nintendo announces a pricedrop for the Wii is the day GAF is overtaken by endless "Wii is a fad, haha!" type of threads. Or: "Nintendo finally admits it's using ducttape to make Wiis" and many other variations based on the Gamecubes performance with pricedrops (which didn't affect sales with that console).
rpmurphy said:
I'm not going to debate the point much longer because we're basically agreeing as is, but I think you overestimate the effects of this action, and Nintendo's willingness to care.
Perhaps. As I said, it will probably do a bit of everything, selling itself to people who own a Wii, and Wii's to both those who might otherwise buy one and those who would not.
I agree with you in that if the Vitality Sensor is successful, it will be much more successful than NSMB Wii in enlarging the Wii's potential audience.
Eteric Rice
Member
ksamedi said:
This is how I see it as well. Iwata himself said that when it starts to slow down, it simply means (to them) that customers don't see it as a good value anymore. That's when they have to add new value to it.
As for the Wii going after the FPS market... No, they need to try to establish themselves as the go to place for other types of games. RPGs, adventure games, platformers, etc. While the PS3 and 360 have a lot of FPS games and what not, they haven't put a huge amount of effort into a lot of other genres.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
If I'm Nintendo, I think my moves that have GAFers making stupid jokes have a pretty good track record on the market. :lolZeitgeister said:Just one problem: the day Nintendo announces a pricedrop for the Wii is the day GAF is overtaken by endless "Wii is a fad, haha!" type of threads. Or: "Nintendo finally admits it's using ducttape to make Wiis" and many other variations based on the Gamecubes performance with pricedrops (which didn't affect sales with that console).
As for the price drop stuff... it's going to happen eventually. Yes we know they prefer it to not be the first option, and from the way they've treated pricing of hardware and games over the last several years we know they're serious about that--but nothing is forever. That they've gone longer than anyone else without dropping price isn't evidence that they'll go twice as long as anyone else.
vanguardian1
poor, homeless and tasteless
gerg said:
True. I know how most of GAF feels about it, but I think the move to 3d killed a lot of the appeal of the Mario series to a lot of people. That being said, I love both for different reasons.
(not like my own evidence is enough, but I know I'm not the only gaffer who knows people who love the 2d mario games and just can't work in the 3d ones)JoshuaJSlone said:
True, but I'd love to see GAF's reaction to a $250 Wii outselling a $200 Ps3.
charlequin
Banned
gerg said:
This is kind of a false dichotomy, though. Yes, going after the shooter market would idiotic and self-defeating (we see how much trouble Sony's having competing for this market), especially since Nintendo's corporate culture is actively ignorant of the things that this market considers valuable, like what a halfway decent online system looks like.
However, the pre-existing core gamer market isn't just thugged-out teen boys teabagging each other in Halo; it's a large segment with a reasonably significant amount of internal diversity. There are areas of low-hanging fruit here that were, in 2006, relatively open to Nintendo to exploit: genres like RPGs, platformers, strategy games, or shmups, plus uncategorizable "niche games," that might have (relatively speaking) performed well on Wii and solidified its reputation amongst a core segment of "tastemaking" core gamers without a great deal of expense or need to compete for unachievable goals like FPS dominance.
There are reasons that Nintendo didn't do this, but they have nothing to do with a considered strategy. Instead, they come out of Nintendo's existing systemic problems: a disinterest in RPGs as a genre, a complete lack of a functional third-party relations apparatus, an almost complete lack of effective partnerships with Western studios, the aforementioned lack of understanding of online play, etc. Outside of a very narrowly defined window of innovation, Nintendo remains a deeply conservative (I would say to a fault) company.
gerg said:
This is basically what undid Nintendo last time too: excessive laurel-resting. Their redefinition of the industry with the Wii should be a prelude to a second stage where they make it the system for everyone (including core gamers without pushing away the new casual audience), but so far they have not been able to deliver on that potential the same way they did with the DS.
Xeke said:
And now their sales are down significantly in every region from their previous highs. The value of a price drop is always going to be measured against the number of extra sales it generates and so the fact that previously a system was selling at a rate too great to even conceive of a price drop does not suggest that one won't be useful in the future unless it keeps selling at that rate, which the Wii clearly has not.
Eteric Rice said:
This generation has already established that game hardware customers do not interpret "added value" as being meaningfully equivalent to "lowered price" for a very specific reason: people tend to set a price ceiling at which they'll adopt technology X and only then attempt to get the best possible deal for their money.
As long as a product is priced above the bargain-basement final price (which in this market I'd argue is $129, where PS2 ended its primary lifespan and where the DS Lite is still chillaxin') you're going to see your sales eventually taper off as you move through the list of "everyone in the country who would consider buying a Wii for $250" (or whatever price.) As that number decreases, added value just offers a better deal for those remaining "will buy for $250" holdouts, rather than really creating more such consumers.
Eventually, if Nintendo wants the money of people who will only buy a Wii for $150 or less (and they should, though as I argue above, Nintendo does has a habit of letting internal philosophical stances interfere with effective business in certain areas) they're going to need to honest-to-goodess drop the price at some point.
Jaded Alyx
Member
Hmm.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm.
MikeE21286
Member
wow just saw that The Legendary Stafry made it up to 19th this month on NPDs.....very surprised that it was that high and that it also outsold The Conduit.....
charlequin said:
I agree that in many areas Nintendo remains conservative, but I ask why this conservative nature can't be a mixture of both intentional decision-making and unintentional limitations in thinking. (For example, I don't see why Nintendo is necessarily ignorant of the features of a good online system - although, in some respects, its lack of experience with Western play styles may limit its knowledge - and has instead ignored them for an ulterior reason.) Afaic, what you list as the company's conservations - the problems holding it back - are symptoms of its one true conservation: its desire to make money above all else. Nintendo is, in many ways, a very frugal company, but it is this that drives their consistent innovation.
I don't want to seem like I'm splitting hairs here, but I don't understand why Nintendo can't have considered the matters you've stated, and simply chosen against pursuing them. I don't understand why Nintendo must have an inability to do X, Y or Z, when instead it may be the case that it has the ability to do so, but has chosen against it. Yes, its decision not to do X, Y or Z will produce the same result, but what I understand as an intentional - say, "internal" - choice you seem to paint as an external limitation.
(I also don't what to make it seem like I believe Nintendo is the perfect company. I do believe that they are run by a very central conservation that most likely proliferates deeply into their corporate strategy, namely, the placement of profit above all else.)
I just don't see how Nintendo is resting on their laurels, in the sense that they would be removing themselves from the situation and ignoring it. I just think that they're taking a more cost-effective route to the same goal. Why can't inaction be a positive option?
And I wouldn't suggest that the DS has been a hit with the demographic I mentioned earlier. I imagine the PSP has much greater penetration there.
I understand that this wasn't directed explicitly towards me, but my understanding is that they'd rather reach the point where they need a price cut through continual software releases (to the point where they become somewhat ineffective) rather than prematurely making one.
FateBreaker
Member
Wow, cool. None for any other consoles?
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
boy, people reposting leaked npd numbers sure are stupid--both because it's bannable to do so even if TEH NINTENDO INTERNET BLOG.CA does it and because posting leaking numbers jeopardizes the leak and makes it less likely you'll ever see leaked numbers again.
xs_mini_neo
Banned
RyuKanSan said:
That's almost 2 million in software sales for the DS this month and just above that for the Wii.. The DS itself only sold over 700k. So people are buying shit for these systems, it's just spread out. No hivemind sales here...Heh
Stumpokapow said:
If you're referring to the guy who posted the Wii and DS numbers, in his defense, unless he combed through each page of the thread, there would be little way to know that there was a hubbub about the numbers over 30 pages ago. Plus, when considering that the same pattern has occurred in the past few NPD threads (numbers leaked, but nobody is really ever certain on if they should be here, and then the numbers are promptly edited out), apparently rule of thumb about leaked number stances is not getting around that effectively here to posters.
The second point is very true, though.