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NPD Sales Results for June 2009
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
thestopsign
Member
Both Baten Kaitos games got good reviews. Don't know what you are talking about.
charlequin
Banned
timetokill said:
Monster Hunter is in no way an RPG. Nintendo had nothing to do with "securing" Dragon Quest besides not calling up and telling Square-Enix "no" when they decided to bring the series to DS and Wii. I'm not overly impressed with the results of their Monolith purchase yet, either.
Golden Sun DS is indeed a bit of a different approach, though.
Still haven't even really begun to catch up on this thread, but I wanted to address this.
If I thought the Wii needed third-parties to jump on board to kickstart its core audience, I'd agree.
As it is, a likely hugely significant part of the morose core audience on the Wii is Nintendo's own lack of attention to the audience. On a personal level, The Conduit is the first Wii game I've really been looking forward to since Wii Fit, and that was 13 months prior. A lot of core Wii owners haven't had much to really get excited about since Super Mario Galaxy 19 months ago. Now Wii owners are looking at over the next 12-18 months getting New Super Mario Bros. Wii (i.e. 2-D Mario), Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid: Other M, and for Wii owners like me, Wii Fit Plus and Wii Sports Resort. Are these games targeted to waking up any slumbering FPS fan Wii owners? No, but they should get the Nintendo base excited again, and some of those are also FPS fans. It may not convince any new developers to jump on board with Wii, but it would likely warm up the Wii audience in preparation for already coming core games from third-parties (i.e. a likely Conduit 2), which was my original statement.
Opiate said:
If I thought the Wii needed third-parties to jump on board to kickstart its core audience, I'd agree.
As it is, a likely hugely significant part of the morose core audience on the Wii is Nintendo's own lack of attention to the audience. On a personal level, The Conduit is the first Wii game I've really been looking forward to since Wii Fit, and that was 13 months prior. A lot of core Wii owners haven't had much to really get excited about since Super Mario Galaxy 19 months ago. Now Wii owners are looking at over the next 12-18 months getting New Super Mario Bros. Wii (i.e. 2-D Mario), Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid: Other M, and for Wii owners like me, Wii Fit Plus and Wii Sports Resort. Are these games targeted to waking up any slumbering FPS fan Wii owners? No, but they should get the Nintendo base excited again, and some of those are also FPS fans. It may not convince any new developers to jump on board with Wii, but it would likely warm up the Wii audience in preparation for already coming core games from third-parties (i.e. a likely Conduit 2), which was my original statement. Thunder Monkey
Banned
PikachuYdahs said:
ShockingAlberto
Member
You really think that?charlequin said:
JoshuaJSlone
Member
I'll take this as monthly rates. If we assume no changes from the linear behavior of the last month, where Wii dropped 35/week and X360 gained 4,370/week, it would take 6 months--December.MWS Natural said:
However, given that linear progression they'd both be having massively shitty Decembers.
ShockingAlberto said:
Dragon Quest has always gone to the leading platforms in each generation. Last Gen was coming to an end so it would have been silly to start development of a new DQ game for any of them.
The DS was soaring up the sales charts and had a significant marketshare and was the only logical choice since it was the only established platform on the market during the console transition period.
Wii gets DQX simply because Wii is market leader.
laserbeam said:
DS sales are still incredibly high globally while the Wii is sliding (particularly in Japan), so your post doesn't have a whole lot of logic. If anything, DQX will go to the market leader -- which will, in your example, still be the DS.
And since DQ is a Japanese title by and large, the second console it could possibly go to is the PSP, and then the Wii -- in that order.
JoJo13 said:
Traditionally, DQ has always gone to the console (emphasizing console, which is distinct from handheld) market leader, that's why they made the switch from NES-SNES-Playstation-Playstation 2. The DS was such a huge success that Enix felt it was the assured market leader and that's why DQ9 is on the DS, but normally it goes to the console market leader, hence with the Wii being a success in Japan, the next entry will be on the Wii. Though with handleds claiming a dominant position is the Japanese market, which has basically forced Japanese companies to abandon the philosophy of the handhelds as being more so the B team arena, I wouldn't be surprised if Enix switches the series back to the DS. There's also the fact that handhelds have become much much more powerful than they were back in the earlier days.
Honestly I'm pretty sure that I've read interviews from SquareEnix that support the assertion of "Dragon Quest goes where the Market Share is".
JoJo13 said:
Except on a worldwide basis, the Wii is massively outselling the PSP. (I could also imagine that by the time DQ X is released in Japan in a year or two, the Wii will have outsold the PSP again.)
I don't think it's so much the case that Nintendo did nothing in regards to getting DQX on the Wii, but I also think that to make it sound like it was a large effort on Nintendo's part is to exaggerate the situation. The DQ series always goes to the most successful platforms, and worldwide these are without question the DS and the Wii. All I imagine that Nintendo did was to nudge SE towards the Wii for DQX for the Wii's own sake, but I don't think they had to work very hard to secure it. The title's not exactly going to perform any worse because of it.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
Assuming the DS will still be the best choice 2-3 years from the release of DQIX is probably as safe a bet as that PS2 would still be the best choice 2-3 years from the release of DQVIII.JoJo13 said:
PSP has the hardware lead on Wii thanks to launching two years earlier and the surge from PSP-2000 on, but their total software sales are pretty similar. Plus one of them has already sold half a million of a DQ spinoff. There's also that PSP being 2 years older, it (like the DS) seems more likely to be superseded in the next 2-3 years than Wii.JoJo13 said:
gerg said:
On a worldwide basis, Dragon Quest is 90% concerned with Japanese sales. The western markets don't give two shits about that title while Japan is absolutely enamored by it. So it doesn't really matter that the PSP isn't doing as well as the Wii in the US or Europe...it's doing a lot better than the Wii currently is in Japan, and as such, it's a more likely platform for DQX than the Wii. Still, I think you'll be seeing the next DQ title on the DS again since it is the genuine 'market leader'.
DQX was already announced for Wii. Enough fans of the series were angry it was going on a handheld device for 9.
The DS was the only platform available with an installbase in the period DQ9 was going to get ready to be made. They either had to make it for DS or hold off til like 2009 to start production after seeing how console sales went.
Nintendo has promised to work with SE on making Dragon Quest more popular in the west though. They are also trying to broaden its appeal even in Japan.
The DS was the only platform available with an installbase in the period DQ9 was going to get ready to be made. They either had to make it for DS or hold off til like 2009 to start production after seeing how console sales went.
Nintendo has promised to work with SE on making Dragon Quest more popular in the west though. They are also trying to broaden its appeal even in Japan.
JoshuaJSlone
Member
JoJo13 said:
Being based on weekly, yearly, mid-yearly lists these numbers aren't perfectly complete, but about as good as one can get for viewing the total software sales per platform for every week:
mysticwhip said:
Good for Sony perhaps. I'd imagine new PS2 game sales are virtually nill. I'd wager a fair majority of those PS2 sales are for budget-hyper-conscience buyers (who'll get their games used) and replacement for broken machines.
Its good for Sony to a degree, but few others. They sold a metric-f-tonne of PS2s, and at the current price of a PS2, you can put one in the garage with a stack of old games... not exactly where the current or future industry is going.
Now, if only Sony's plan of "converting PS2 owners into PS3 owners" had come to fruition... that would be very good for Sony, but that plan seems to be failing.
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Unfortunately, I knew the Conduit wouldn't make the top ten. Overall, I think the hardware numbers are pretty good.
timetokill
Banned
charlequin said:
You sure about Dragon Quest and the Wii? Sure, the DS seemed like a no-brainer, but the Wii announcement came VERY early, I'd be pretty surprised if Nintendo/Iwata wasn't greasing the wheels there in some fashion.
And whether or not the Monolith purchase was a "good" one or not, they clearly supported them and purchased them off the back of two RPGs, with another one coming down the pike.
And do the Mario RPG games on both console and handheld not count? Or Fire Emblem?
And yeah, of course Pokemon.
The Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles games also came out of Nintendo's desire to get more Square support.
I just don't think Nintendo is being as being "disinterested in RPGs as a genre." In fact that seems false, to me.
What do you think they should do to qualify them as being "interested" in RPGs?
Maxwell House
Member
Wii and DS requiire hardware mods. You have to purchase a card/stick for the DS and a mod chip you have to sauter onto a Wii. They are WAY harder to mod than a PSP. PSP is a free software mod. It's as easy it pirate as the Dreamcast was and is why PSP piracy is so widespread.Firestorm said:
Mithos
Member
Maxwell House said:
All 3 consoles are easy to pirate on.
The Wii only needs a software install, then you plug in a usb hdd or a SDHC card and run games from that, you are correct that the DS need a special card to play pirated games, but then the PSP need both software/hardware since you need something to store the games on.
TheGreatDave
Banned
Maxwell House said:
I dunno, I had to buy some battery mod to do it.
Pureauthor
Member
Maxwell House said:
Don't you need a Pandroa battery for PSP mods or something along those lines?
I put the HBC on my Wii (and later USB Loader) without spending a dime (other than the optional external HDD since I wanted to copy more than one of my games). I could've spent the same amount on my PSP but I didn't have anyone else with a CFW PSP to make a Pandora battery for me and I didn't want to crack open my own battery to make it one so I just bought one. Wii was MUCH easier than the PSP.Maxwell House said:
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
charlequin said:
You're probably right about DQIX for the DS but Nintendo definitely played a part with DQX being on the Wii.
Square-Enix was saw the massive sales of the DS and wanted to see if it would be possible for a true gaming juggernaut to receive justice on a handheld. Dragon Quest IX was going to the DS to take this chance. Announcing a sequel before IX even released (something SE has never done before) is a pretty red flag indicator IMO.
Also Nintendo has stated that they agree to take in a huge part of the marketing overseas (much like SONY did with FFVII).
EDIT - I'm not disagreeing with your statements just correcting you.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
gerg said:
I see what you're saying but DQ usually stays on one platform per generation. And combining this fact with SE still waiting to "test" the DS in terms of how it can serve a juggernaut putting and announcing DQX on the Wii really doesn't make any sense as the DS version hadn't even been released yet and if anything it should have gone to the DS again.
charlequin
Banned
magash said:
Pokemon and the Mario RPGs are interesting here in that they're both quite clearly jRPGs by gameplay, but the unusual setting (and the fact that they both sell on the backs of extremely unique, high-profile IPs) mean they don't really contribute in any real way to making the system they appear on more friendly to RPGs by other developers.
ShockingAlberto said:
There is no question in my mind and there should be none in anyone else's. Dragon Quest is largely unique in the gaming industry in terms of the degree to which its original creator (Yuji Horii) still holds control over it, and he's been on record for years and years saying that Dragon Quest always comes to the best-selling platforms -- a pattern that it has yet to break.
Nintendo didn't do anything to grease the wheels here because having the best-selling platforms already did all the work, and if it hadn't, Nintendo moneyhats to Square-Enix wouldn't have helped since Horii is the one making the decision.
Flying_Phoenix said:
Nope. Don't say you're correcting me about something where you don't actually seem to have all the relevant information.
evilromero
Member
I'm a core gamer who only owns a Wii and I wouldn't touch the Conduit with a 10 foot stick. It's the definition of mediocre. So I'm glad the sales are possibly reflecting that even though it launched one week before July.TeethMummy said:
AceBandage
Banned
farnham said:
It's called poster desperation.
I think Nintendo Japan is making an effort to get the core gamer market. I also think they might have waited too long in that attempt and stuff like Monster Hunter Tri and Tales of Graces should have been out last year.
I'm also curious as to SE's strategy with Dragon Quest X. I'm still somewhat doubtful we'll see it this generation, but I imagine we might heart more concrete plans later this year (or at least more Dragon Quest games announced for Wii making it clear that X is on its way).
I'm also curious as to SE's strategy with Dragon Quest X. I'm still somewhat doubtful we'll see it this generation, but I imagine we might heart more concrete plans later this year (or at least more Dragon Quest games announced for Wii making it clear that X is on its way).
DangerousDave
Member
bcn-ron said:
Yes, but it's a matter of the target of the console.
The PSP is basicly a 16-20 yo male console, people with some tech knowledges, that connects to the internet and download games, movies, music, etc.
The DS is more widespread, with a lot of users of +40 yo, or less than 14, and a lot of female user base. Even if some of their users piracy the DS, there is a very big user base that don't know anything about piracy and even that don't use internet at all.
charlequin
Banned
gerg said:
Because advancing such credit presumes its own conclusion: that Nintendo is a canny, mobile operator whose masterminds cleverly look a step forward in every situation while lumbering industry beasts Sony and Nintendo blink slowly and miss opportunities due to their ignorance, preconceptions, and/or partial focus on non-gaming market elements.
In reality, we've already seen the limitations of Nintendo's strategies begin to bear unfortunate fruit. Rather than use the Wii as an opportunity to forge a brand-new relationship with third-parties (and thereby load off a portion of software development work to relatively risk-free partners, while continuing to reap the benefits thereof), Nintendo chose to carry on in their PTSD-esque post-N64 fashion: third-parties betrayed us once, so we should never trust them again. That, in turn, contributed to a fairly significant downturn in Wii sales in Japan when combined with another problem: a drastically underperforming holiday season anchored solely by Animal Crossing and Wii Music, and a lack of software momentum following it, with no major third-party releases to fill in the gaps.
Because that presumes that there is actually a profitability benefit from these decisions, which is largely unsupported. The almost complete lack of third-party support has already had a demonstrable effect on Wii's Japanese sales; the complete lack of promotion, poor storage solutions, and anemic (in the US) release schedule for VC/WiiWare have reduced the sales and relevance of these services; etc.
In order to justify the idea that these decisions are actually made in support of profitability, one would have to assert, essentially, that nothing outside of the ultra-casual market can ever be profitable enough to pursue. But this assertion is not only poorly backed up by history (before this generation, even the "red ocean" gaming market managed to be fairly profitable for many participants) but also not supported by Nintendo's selection of disruption strategy -- the purpose of which is to step outside the bounds of the existing market to find success, then leverage that success to more easily recapture upmarket customers. When this strategy is successful, it is wildly profitable -- I direct you to the DS, where Nintendo not only sees huge profits on hardware sales and hit first-party titles like Rhythm Heaven, but also continually draws in significant income from third-party hits which they need to provide little or no real support or financing to.
It really makes much more sense to apply the same standard to Nintendo that we do to other companies: look at their broader strategy and performance and evaluate their success in light of those facts. The Wii, while wildly successful, has seen significantly greater stumbles (both in terms of obvious strategic mistakes and in terms of effects on real performance) than the DS, and attributing these to a Panglossian "well, that's the best conceivable result they could have achieved" seems disingenuous when relatively low-risk options to repair these mistakes can be easily identified.
Because the demonstrated effects of inaction have been a near-complete lack of meaningful third-party support, and a resulting fault-intolerance for scheduling problems or misplays in Nintendo's first-party lineup since there's no externally-dfeveloped software to fill in inconvenient gaps.
This strikes me as a fairly out-there statement. The DS is the gaming system in Japan and still selling quite a bit more dramatically than other systems in the US at the moment; it's had extremely successful core game titles sell in addition to its expanded-market stuff in both territories. The US certainly hasn't taken to it with the fierceness of the Japanese market (largely since the handheld revolution is a few years behind schedule over here) but the system has had no lack of software for users on any part of the continuum, from ultra-casual all the way to core niche gamers, for almost its entire lifespan -- something the Wii can't claim.
charlequin
Banned
schuelma said:
I think this is fairly accurate, although "an effort" is a relative measure and I think this is more like an "I just woke up but now at least I'm like sort of slowly trying to look for my glasses" effort than an "oh shit I'm late fuck fuck better run out to the bus at top speed" effort.
Why? I doubt we'll see a new generation in full swing until 2012, and there's really no problem with releasing DQX at the very tail end of a cycle -- that'll give them three years to make it happen.
DangerousDave
Member
But the latest iterations of Dragon Quest has been really slow.
DQ VII (PSX, 2000) ---> DQ VIII (PS2, 2004) -----> DQ IX (DS, 2009)
So the next iteration may be in 2013 or 2014 (in Japan), if it's done from scratch (if it's done in DS, i expect next iteration in 3 years max).
DQ VII (PSX, 2000) ---> DQ VIII (PS2, 2004) -----> DQ IX (DS, 2009)
So the next iteration may be in 2013 or 2014 (in Japan), if it's done from scratch (if it's done in DS, i expect next iteration in 3 years max).
I actually find all this "The Conduit" bombing talk to be complete nonsense because I can promise that the game will sell the same numbers the next month if not even more based on Wii software trends, take a look at Force Unleashed for instance, which is still selling 30,000 units plus a month according to June NPD figures (I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes a million seller in NA sometime soon, if not including the Euro market already).
It's a horrible misconception to expect front-loaded game sales for any piece of Wii game software, even for those with high debuts, meaning Nintendo's premier Wii software (Mario Kart, Smash Bros, SMG, or their Wii __ line of game titles). You would think that those monitoring Wii's software sales every month here would understand this by now. Being a devout RPG gamer and owning both Wii and 360, I'm happy with both platforms when it comes to satiating my RPG desires.
Also, the RPG argument makes me raise an eyebrow as well because honestly it seems that the Wii is shaping up to be the RPG home platform at this point. Sure, the Xbox 360 has started out being the platform for RPGs with higher profile titles but the Wii is building up a library of RPGs as well, starting out with smaller niche titles, leading into bigger players like Dragon Quest and Tales of. All you need to do to prove this is start a list wars.
And if Nintendo wants to create Dragon Quest recognition on its platforms, as it has been lucky to obtain as of late with Square Enix remaking its older DQ games for the DS, it would be wise to encourage a port of Dragon Quest VIII for the Wii. If offered at a value price prior to the release of Dragon Quest X it could help their cause further.
Oh and one more thing, expect Metroid Prime Triology to push the first-person market on the Wii even more so than Metroid Prime Corruption itself. It offers great value to the consumer as well as a proven and more accesible control scheme than even The Conduit. The Conduit offers great controls once you tailor it to the game but for casual consumers, Retro's games offer more accesibility from the start without much tinkering. I'm expecting Triology to do better than Corruption in the long run. Ideally, in addition to High Voltage Software's efforts, it would be great to see Retro Studios take their Metroid Prime Corruption controls and apply it to an original multiplayer FPS for the platform. Once Nintendo embraces this market with a high profile title, the ball will start rolling.
Nintendo has the casual market now they need to make more strides bringing the hardcore gamer to their platform, and third parties have picked up the ball in that response. No, consumers aren't picking up their games in droves, but the evergreen sales trends are bringing these games to casuals in addition to gamers like us who will pick up Rune Factory Frontier and Overlord day one. If niche games like this continue to come, which they are, along with established Nintendo efforts like Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Other M, Monado, and bridge games like Punch-Out!! you'll see a greater balance in software performance.
It's a horrible misconception to expect front-loaded game sales for any piece of Wii game software, even for those with high debuts, meaning Nintendo's premier Wii software (Mario Kart, Smash Bros, SMG, or their Wii __ line of game titles). You would think that those monitoring Wii's software sales every month here would understand this by now. Being a devout RPG gamer and owning both Wii and 360, I'm happy with both platforms when it comes to satiating my RPG desires.
Also, the RPG argument makes me raise an eyebrow as well because honestly it seems that the Wii is shaping up to be the RPG home platform at this point. Sure, the Xbox 360 has started out being the platform for RPGs with higher profile titles but the Wii is building up a library of RPGs as well, starting out with smaller niche titles, leading into bigger players like Dragon Quest and Tales of. All you need to do to prove this is start a list wars.
And if Nintendo wants to create Dragon Quest recognition on its platforms, as it has been lucky to obtain as of late with Square Enix remaking its older DQ games for the DS, it would be wise to encourage a port of Dragon Quest VIII for the Wii. If offered at a value price prior to the release of Dragon Quest X it could help their cause further.
Oh and one more thing, expect Metroid Prime Triology to push the first-person market on the Wii even more so than Metroid Prime Corruption itself. It offers great value to the consumer as well as a proven and more accesible control scheme than even The Conduit. The Conduit offers great controls once you tailor it to the game but for casual consumers, Retro's games offer more accesibility from the start without much tinkering. I'm expecting Triology to do better than Corruption in the long run. Ideally, in addition to High Voltage Software's efforts, it would be great to see Retro Studios take their Metroid Prime Corruption controls and apply it to an original multiplayer FPS for the platform. Once Nintendo embraces this market with a high profile title, the ball will start rolling.
Nintendo has the casual market now they need to make more strides bringing the hardcore gamer to their platform, and third parties have picked up the ball in that response. No, consumers aren't picking up their games in droves, but the evergreen sales trends are bringing these games to casuals in addition to gamers like us who will pick up Rune Factory Frontier and Overlord day one. If niche games like this continue to come, which they are, along with established Nintendo efforts like Super Mario Galaxy 2, Metroid Other M, Monado, and bridge games like Punch-Out!! you'll see a greater balance in software performance.