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NPD Sales Results for June 2015 [Up2: Batman, Splatoon]

And where are they now? And how many closets did this thing end up in or collecting dust after that novelty worn off?

It came out at the right time, a more impulsive price with a motion control fad that cashed in on the grannies and soccer moms who were loving the touch games on their iPhones that started to boom at the same time.

Not saying it was bad, I loved some of the Nintendo games on mine. But as a more core gamer than the mass who bought it, that waggle effect wore off in a month and I was playing games on a classic pad.

It was an anomaly for them for system sales, because as I said before, their systems have been on a 10 mil on average decline every year. And Wii removed, it is followed that exact pattern to a T.
Not sure im understanding your posts and some of the similar ones.

i have pointed out the natural sales decline myself post SNES. But in regards to: "Where are they now?" Are you implying the Wii was a bad idea? Nintendo making an N64 or GC didn't lead to any breakthroughs or increased revenue streams, just more nose diving sales curves.

Also you should consider the DS in here, since the Wii appealed to an important part of that audience. So in that sense, cultivating an audience with the excentric DS hardware let to good results that continued with the Wii.

Basically, im not understanding what you are trying to say here XD
 

Sandfox

Member
And where are they now? And how many closets did this thing end up in or collecting dust after that novelty worn off?

It came out at the right time, a more impulsive price with a motion control fad that cashed in on the grannies and soccer moms who were loving the touch games on their iPhones that started to boom at the same time.

Not saying it was bad, I loved some of the Nintendo games on mine. But as a more core gamer than the mass who bought it, that waggle effect wore off in a month and I was playing games on a classic pad.

It was an anomaly for them for system sales, because as I said before, their systems have been on a 10 mil on average decline every year. And Wii removed, it is followed that exact pattern to a T.

The iPhone didn't exist at the time. Nintendo created that audience with crazy good software and marketing jobs on the DS and Wii that they failed to do with the Wii U and the 3DS so a lot of them either didn't upgrade and stayed with old device or picked up their phones. I'm curious to see how they attempt to rebound with mobile and NX now.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
Not sure im understanding your posts and some of the similar ones.

i have pointed out the natural sales decline myself post SNES. But in regards to: "Where are they now?" Are you implying the Wii was a bad idea? Nintendo making an N64 or GC didn't lead to any breakthroughs or increased revenue streams, just more nose diving sales curves.

Basically, im not understanding what you are trying to say here XD

He's trying to say that Nintendo were unable to migrate the user base on Wii to the Wii U.
 

womp

Member
Glad to see LEGO Jurassic Park do well. My son and I have put a good 39 hours into it on the PC and while I am not a huge fan of the LEGO games in general (Undercover aside), this was easily the most fun I have had with one. Very VERY good game.
 
Is there much really much "loyalty" period? In the gaming industry nowadays
If your next product stinks (or is just less attractive), consumers won't buy it. Regardless of they previously bought.

Wii U situation is obvious.
Xbox 1 is going no where near ~85 million, Maybe like half of that but who knows. And its current LTD is after all the price cuts and deals.
PS3 started badly, but recovered. However, Sony lost an effload of money despite selling ~85 million. So hard to say "recovered". And that was off the back of the most selling console ever.

Seems like loyalty is a bit overrated.

Of course products are going to go up and down in sales, but the Playstation and Xbox are where they are now because they did build a brand with a specific type of consumer. Granted that consumer might jump from one to the other, but it's still a part of the same audience. No such audience exists with the Wii. A lot of the people it sold to were not gamers, they were just people jumping on the hot trend. They didn't dump Wii and go buy an Xbox or a Playstation, they dumped Wii and took up pilates or occupied their time with Pinterest instead. Microsoft, if they play their cards right, can potentially win back the audience as that audience exists (as evidence by PS4 sales), and Sony is in the process of doing that right now. Nintendo is probably never winning back the Wii audience.
 
Good job Splatoon!! I remember the discussion if it would sell more than W101.

I still need to get my copy, but not sure, don't have the time to git gud.
 
Glad to see LEGO Jurassic Park do well. My son and I have put a good 39 hours into it on the PC and while I am not a huge fan of the LEGO games in general (Undercover aside), this was easily the most fun I have had with one. Very VERY good game.

I've been wanting to play it. From people I've talked with I've heard its one of the better Lego games. I really enjoyed Lego Marvel and Lego Batman 3 so hoping to get a chance to give Jurassic Park a shot soon.
 
He's trying to say that Nintendo were unable to migrate the user base on Wii to the Wii U.
Well i added something to my previous posts. Nintendo managed to move part of the DS audience to the Wii.

The dedicated videogame market is just too crowded and too competitve. And now you have dayly life necessity devices serving games to people. Is just a very adverse climate for the traditional type of Nintendo's videogame busyness.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Not sure im understanding your posts and some of the similar ones.

i have pointed out the natural sales decline myself post SNES. But in regards to: "Where are they now?" Are you implying the Wii was a bad idea? Nintendo making an N64 or GC didn't lead to any breakthroughs or increased revenue streams, just more nose diving sales curves.

Also you should consider the DS in here, since the Wii appealed to an important part of that audience. So in that sense, cultivating an audience with the excentric DS hardware let to good results that continued with the Wii.

Basically, im not understanding what you are trying to say here XD

Where are they now was referring to the 100 million gamers that did not hop on the following system. And there are many factors people refuse to still believe when the evidence is there as to the type of consumers that were buying it in mass, were not your typical buy a new system every generation gamer.

All I am saying was that it was an anomaly for them. And the Wii U is following the decline pattern we were accustomed to.

Of course products are going to go up and down in sales, but the Playstation and Xbox are where they are now because they did build a brand with a specific type of consumer. Granted that consumer might jump from one to the other, but it's still a part of the same audience. No such audience exists with the Wii. A lot of the people it sold to were not gamers, they were just people jumping on the hot trend. They didn't dump Wii and go buy an Xbox or a Playstation, they dumped Wii and took up pilates or occupied their time with Pinterest instead. Microsoft, if they play their cards right, can potentially win back the audience as that audience exists (as evidence by PS4 sales), and Sony is in the process of doing that right now. Nintendo is probably never winning back the Wii audience.

This.
 

gamerMan

Member
One of iwata's last comments was about Splatoon after a comment / question from a shareholder.

" Iwata: As some of you may have seen the TV commercials we have been airing recently, “Splatoon” is a brand-new title and not a title from an established series. It has a very unique and fantasy-like setting. This game, inspired by squid squirting out ink, is played by human-shaped characters with squid-like features shooting, instead of squirting, ink at each other, and the team that paints the widest area in its team color wins. Having received high recognition from our consumers for its novelty, this title’s sell-through sales reached 1 million units in less than a month from its release. We feel very grateful for this, since our view was not so optimistic prior to release, for it being a non-series title."

Splatoon certainly surpassed Nintendo's expectations.

I am so glad people went out and bought Splatoon. I really think this is the key to Nintendo succeeding. They have the best developers in the world. I would like to see them develop at least one new franchise a year.
 

phanphare

Banned
The iPhone didn't exist at the time. Nintendo created that audience with crazy good software and marketing jobs on the DS and Wii that they failed to do with the Wii U and the 3DS so a lot of them either didn't upgrade and stayed with old device or picked up their phones. I'm curious to see how they attempt to rebound with mobile and NX now.

yeah I was about to say the iphone wasn't out in 2006 lol

and also I think it's slightly disingenuous to separate their console and handheld and look at one side in a vacuum, at least in this specific instance. it's true that Nintendo didn't do enough to keep the Wii audience around after but it stands to reason that there was overlap between the DS and Wii audience. that's to say that I don't think each Wii owner that did not previously own a GCN was a new customer to Nintendo. many likely already had a DS.
 
Where are they now was referring to the 100 million gamers that did not hop on the following system. And there are many factors people refuse to still believe when the evidence is there as to the type of consumers that were buying it in mass, were not your typical buy a new system every generation gamer.

All I am saying was that it was an anomaly for them. And the Wii U is following the decline pattern we were accustomed to.
Agreed.

The Wii had many of everything just like a PS2. Then you'll ask me, then why is there a clear difference. And the answer is easy, the "the real" 3rd party support, the gross of R&D, budgets and mass marketing of the industry was invested in the PS3/360 and the "HD" era.

If an important part of those resources would have been poured into the Wii, then rest assured the Wii U would have had better perfomance in the market.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Of course products are going to go up and down in sales, but the Playstation and Xbox are where they are now because they did build a brand with a specific type of consumer. Granted that consumer might jump from one to the other, but it's still a part of the same audience. No such audience exists with the Wii. A lot of the people it sold to were not gamers, they were just people jumping on the hot trend. They didn't dump Wii and go buy an Xbox or a Playstation, they dumped Wii and took up pilates or occupied their time with Pinterest instead. Microsoft, if they play their cards right, can potentially win back the audience as that audience exists (as evidence by PS4 sales), and Sony is in the process of doing that right now. Nintendo is probably never winning back the Wii audience.

Probably not.

I'm not sure Nintendo could've gotten the core audience during that 06-10 if they tried though. So might as well go the "wii audience" and make a lot of money before it's gone. Gen 6 probably would've been a bomb for them if they competed straight up.

How that bodes for their future home consoles though? not well unless they find the next "thing".
 

TomShoe

Banned
Pfff. They all went to mobile, with Candy Crush, and Angry Birds, and all that junk. Mobile is so appealing because there's virtually no barrier to entry. Compare that to $300+ for a Wii U & games, and for casuals, the choice is obvious. One smartphone is all it takes, and there's millions of games at your fingertips, just waiting to be discovered. That's also why games can get huge and flame out so quickly, because there's no cost to switch to another game, there's no brand loyalty at all. Just ask the creator of Flappy Bird.
Amazon Fire exclusive? Really?
 

Jigorath

Banned
Of course products are going to go up and down in sales, but the Playstation and Xbox are where they are now because they did build a brand with a specific type of consumer. Granted that consumer might jump from one to the other, but it's still a part of the same audience. No such audience exists with the Wii. A lot of the people it sold to were not gamers, they were just people jumping on the hot trend. They didn't dump Wii and go buy an Xbox or a Playstation, they dumped Wii and took up pilates or occupied their time with Pinterest instead. Microsoft, if they play their cards right, can potentially win back the audience as that audience exists (as evidence by PS4 sales), and Sony is in the process of doing that right now. Nintendo is probably never winning back the Wii audience.

Nintendo has successfully won back the Gamecube audience though.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
yeah I was about to say the iphone wasn't out in 2006 lol

It was out in 2007. So the following year, and well into that "neat new ways to interact" timeframe.

Pfff. They all went to mobile, with Candy Crush, and Angry Birds, and all that junk. Mobile is so appealing because there's virtually no barrier to entry. Compare that to $300+ for a Wii U & games, and for casuals, the choice is obvious. One smartphone is all it takes, and there's millions of games at your fingertips, just waiting to be discovered. That's also why games can get huge and flame out so quickly, because there's no cost to switch to another game, there's no brand loyalty at all. Just ask the creator of Flappy Bird.
Amazon Fire exclusive? Really?

Yep, why I made the iPhone reference.

Nintendo has successfully won back the Gamecube audience though.

Which was a decline from the N64 by about 10 mil, which was a decline from the SNES by about 10 mil, which...

I don't think they left,, the declines are just par for the course when you lack third party games and features the completion has. The mere fact that their First Party has such high attachment rates is a testament they didn't go anywhere at all.
 

stryke

Member
Nintendo has successfully won back the Gamecube audience though.

How do you know the Gamecube audience ever left? More to that, you see Wii U selling over 20 million? pls nope scratch that

They haven't got back the Gamecube audience at all.
 

Sandfox

Member
Pfff. They all went to mobile, with Candy Crush, and Angry Birds, and all that junk. Mobile is so appealing because there's virtually no barrier to entry. Compare that to $300+ for a Wii U & games, and for casuals, the choice is obvious. One smartphone is all it takes, and there's millions of games at your fingertips, just waiting to be discovered. That's also why games can get huge and flame out so quickly, because there's no cost to switch to another game, there's no brand loyalty at all. Just ask the creator of Flappy Bird.
Amazon Fire exclusive? Really?

This is why I'm curious to see what Nintendo comes up for with mobile.

It was out in 2007. So the following year, and well into that "neat new ways to interact" timeframe.

The Wii was basically building on the audience Nintendo already found with the DS and I don't think the iPhone suddenly took off as a casual gaming device right after launch.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
Who even bought the Gamecube? It was OK for a 2nd console (TTYD will be in my heart forever), but there wasn't that much of an audience to begin with.

In the US? About 11.8 million people. The best selling game was Super Smash Bro's Melee which sold almost 4 million units.
 
Nintendo is in a brutal spot with the NX imo. Casual audiences are gone and I'm really not sure if they will ever come back and Ninty's hardcore market is pretty small. They shouldn't be in the hardware businesses imo but thats for another thread
 

Mr Moose

Member
Who even bought the Gamecube? It was OK for a 2nd console (TTYD will be in my heart forever), but there wasn't that much of an audience to begin with.

I bought one. It's the only console I ever sold :(

Oh man, it wouldn't be a sales thread on GAF without some classic "Wii doesn't count" BS.

lol Some people are still upset about that system's success.

When did that happen?
It was a success, it won last gen (it wasn't a very good console IMO).
 
And where are they now? And how many closets did this thing end up in or collecting dust after that novelty worn off? I am not discounting the sales at all, just pointing to why it is now seen as an anomaly for them.

It came out at the right time, a more impulsive price with a motion control fad that cashed in on the grannies and soccer moms who were loving the touch games on their iPhones that started to boom at the same time.

Not saying it was bad, I loved some of the Nintendo games on mine. But as a more core gamer than the mass who bought it, that waggle effect wore off in a month and I was playing games on a classic pad.

It was an anomaly for them for system sales, because as I said before, their systems have been on a 10 mil on average decline every year. And Wii removed, it is followed that exact pattern to a T.
where did they giant 70 million plus market go for the PS3, ps2 sold 150 million + and then 80 + million with a ridiculous amount of price drops. Where did the sega genesis audience go with the Saturn? Where did the 360 audience go with the one?

Answer, they fucked up that's why. Customers don't have loyalty, you mess up and they will leave. The wii had a better name, better innovation, better price, better marketing, and it wasn't confusing. They lost that audience because they fucked up, not some imaginary trend
 
Oh man, it wouldn't be a sales thread on GAF without some classic "Wii doesn't count" BS.

lol Some people are still upset about that system's success.
 
Of course the sales were real, but I think the argument people make when they discount it as an outlier or anomaly is that it didn't create anything for Nintendo to build off of. It' didn't create a loyal fanbase they could sell more hardware too. It was monstrously successful for a solid 3-4 year period, and moved tons of hardware and software, but when people dropped it they dropped it like a rock and the brand meant nothing to them.
I know that lots of people like to hand-wave that by saying "well of course people dropped it. Dem casuals right? lololol"

I do not believe that is correct. I place the blame on Nintendo, actually, for failing to pursue that audience more aggressively by giving them more of the games they wanted. After NSMB Wii, Nintendo's efforts on the system were decidedly Gamecube-esque, which is the opposite of what the Wii audience wanted.

Let me frame it this way: why was there a Super Mario Galaxy 2 but no NSMB Wii 2 or Mario Kart Wii 2? Why was Skyward Sword single player and kind of "advanced"? I know some of these questions sound crazy, but strictly speaking from a business perspective, Nintendo started making the "wrong" games mid-way through the Wii's life which tracks pretty neatly with the decline in popularity and sales. The games coming out did not build on the promise of motion controls for the audience that had bought the system for Mario Kart, Wii Fit, and Sports.

And where are they now? And how many closets did this thing end up in or collecting dust after that novelty worn off? I am not discounting the sales at all, just pointing to why it is now seen as an anomaly for them.
As stated above, it is my opinion that it was Nintendo's fault. They did a terrible job of serving that audience post-2009 (when NSMB Wii and Sports Resort launched).

It came out at the right time, a more impulsive price with a motion control fad that cashed in on the grannies and soccer moms who were loving the touch games on their iPhones that started to boom at the same time.
The notion that it was an "impulse buy" and a "fad" is objectively false.

If it was an "impulse buy" then why did people wait weeks or even months to get one? Why did sales remain absurdly high for the first 4 years of the system's life? At that time of the Wii's life, I worked retail. I have first-hand experience of dozens of people calling every day and stopping in the store each day asking if we had a Wii, and this was mid 2007, a year after the thing launched.

A fad? Maybe, depending on how you stretch the word, but definitely a longer-burning fad compared to a lot of other gaming stuff.

Not saying it was bad, I loved some of the Nintendo games on mine. But as a more core gamer than the mass who bought it, that waggle effect wore off in a month and I was playing games on a classic pad.
There are other people with similar experience. On the whole, however, the numbers don't lie. A lot of people bought the system and on average they bought 9 games. Without more granular numbers, I can't say if those game purchases were frontloaded (I doubt it) but at least we can infer that most people didn't buy the system for Wii Sports, get bored, and then tossed it in a closet.

It was an anomaly for them for system sales, because as I said before, their systems have been on a 10 mil on average decline every year. And Wii removed, it is followed that exact pattern to a T.
In that sense, we are in agreement. I think the steady decline is due to Nintendo focusing on their core audience and not reaching out to new customers. Wii (and DS) were all about reaching out to new customers, which is why those two platforms are the two most-successful platforms in the company's history.
 

Jigorath

Banned
where did they giant 70 million plus market go for the PS3, ps2 sold 150 million + and then 80 + million with a ridiculous amount of price drops. Where did the sega genesis audience go with the Saturn? Where did the 360 audience go with the one?

They bought a 360. Most of the Wii's audience has left console gaming entirely. Most of the PS2 audience was split down the middle between the HD twins.
 
Oh man, it wouldn't be a sales thread on GAF without some classic "Wii doesn't count" BS.

lol Some people are still upset about that system's success.
Never understand people actitude towards this system. Specially when the library of games it's actually interesting, diverse and less shooter conventional XD
 
Not all customers have loyalty, and in general "loyalty" is a poor term for it, but successful conversion of consumers of prior goods and services to current goods and services is certainly an important part of the retail industry.

I mean, what percentage of Wii-U owners do you estimate previously owned another Nintendo console? 90%? 95%? More? How many of them would have bought a Wii-U as their first Nintendo console, having no prior experience with Nintendo hardware?
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
The Wii was basically building on the audience Nintendo already found with the DS and I don't think the iPhone suddenly took off as a casual gaming device right after launch.

yeah I'd say if the Wii owes its success to another product it's likely the DS that came before it, not the iphone that came after

Agreed to an extent. My point of reference was that it helped give them legs for the next 3 years, and when the phones and games on them got more popular, those very people dropped the Wii like an old fad. Even Nintendo saw that abrupt decline and did the same.

Now the Wii U is showing the exact same pattern before the Wii's anomaly.
 
Looks like anything bundled with the ps4 seems to be a win. It will be interesting to see the CoD and Star Wars bundles this holiday and maybe a price drop? That would sell a lot of consoles. Ms will have to do a lot to beat that.
 

frizby

Member
Came to see if that argumentative guy with access to "500 retail stores" had eaten his Splatoon has legs crow yet.
 

ZhugeEX

Banned
What's always funny to me is how people say the Wii was 100% casual but the PS2 has no casuals.

The PS2 sold as much as it did thanks to a casual audience. Hell in 2004 Kaz Hirai dedicated a whole section of E3 to talking about capturing the casual gamer market and the console exceeded expectations at capturing that market.

Came to see if that argumentative guy with access to "500 retail stores" had eaten his Splatoon has legs crow yet.

He's already been banned.
 

Sandfox

Member
They bought a 360. Most of the Wii's audience has left console gaming entirely. Most of the PS2 audience was split down the middle between the HD twins.

The PS2 had a lot of casual stuff doing well IIRC so that's probably not all that accurate.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Looks like anything bundled with the ps4 seems to be a win. It will be interesting to see the CoD and Star Wars bundles this holiday and maybe a price drop? That would sell a lot of consoles. Ms will have to do a lot to beat that.

Yeah, if they do those custom limited consoles I think they will sell shit loads. From CoD customs to the Star Wars ones, they would sell so many (especially Star Wars ones).
It's pretty crazy how good Sonys marketing has been.
 

phanphare

Banned
Agreed to an extent. My point of reference was that it helped give them legs for the next 3 years, and when the phones and games on them got more popular, those very people dropped the Wii like an old fad. Even Nintendo saw that abrupt decline and did the same.

Now the Wii U is showing the exact same pattern before the Wii's anomaly.

you keep changing what you're trying to say..lol
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
where did they giant 70 million plus market go for the PS3, ps2 sold 150 million + and then 80 + million with a ridiculous amount of price drops. Where did the sega genesis audience go with the Saturn? Where did the 360 audience go with the one?

Answer, they fucked up that's why. Customers don't have loyalty, you mess up and they will leave. The wii had a better name, better innovation, better price, better marketing, and it wasn't confusing. They lost that audience because they fucked up, not some imaginary trend

Agreed.

PS2 had no competition. The PS3 had sales split with the 360 due to a bunch of fuck ups and MSFT putting out a phenomenal product.

Add the PS360 together and there is your PS2 sales.

Their conventional systems have been on decline. The proof is in the numbers.

They had everything you said, plus at the right time when new ways of interacting with software was starting to boom as well. It's not as simple as them "fucking up" because the Wii hit a brick wall before the Wii U. People were over the waggle man.

Where did those 100 million go then? It sure wasn't to the correct consoles.
 
Never understand people actitude towards this system. Specially when the library of games it's actually interesting, diverse and less shooter conventional XD

It's an amazing console if you're into niche games. I'm still collecting for it. I'll probably still be buying Wii games long after Wii U is dead and buried.
 
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