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[Conflict NZ]

How is selling 619k in barely over a month (So let's say 600k Ish) a flop? I mean sure it's not CoD/Halo numbers, but these aren't bad numbers (in fact they're breaking PS3 records for SCEA/SCEE.

To put it in perspective, when a game like Tomb Raider: Underworld, a product which took two years, had a team of ~70 people working on it, was rushed to market and had little advertising beyond gaming sites needs to sell 2.5 million copies before it starts to show a return how many copies of a game which was in the works for 4 years, had 100+ people working on it and had a large marketing campaign do you think will need to sell before it shows a return? I'm guessing 3.5 million +. Killzone 2 may limp to profitability but I am sure Sony is disappointed with these numbers for what must have been a massive investment.

 

[Rice-Eater]

Man KZ2 sold ~300k and it's not even it's opening NPD month..I think a lot of you are overreacting. Sure it wasn't a world-beater or anything like that, but the numbers are by no means bad. Basically 1 month + 2 days = 610k+.
What would it have to have sold this month for people to be impressed?

I think people were hoping/asking for it to at least keep pace with the last two COD(PS3 version) games. Both cleared over a million in there first two NPD. KZ2 did have less time in its first 2 NPD compared to MW and WAW, but unless something drastic happens it's probably not going to sell 400k in the next 2-3 weeks. We'll see if KZ2 has legs though. It probably won't chart in the next NPD, but if it's at least 100k+ that'll be a good sign.

 

[nib95]

Interesting since the Killzone brigade seemed to say the exact same thing about the first Killzone (inbetween .gif's of course) I seem remember hearing countless... countless times how Killzone 1 sold over a million units.

But that's true. The first did sell over a million units, as has the sequel. Around 1.4m thus far and apparently with pretty good legs.

I think certain people need to realise that no single game is going to be the PS3's "saviour" (I've realised it's 360 fans that bring this up by the way and not PS3 fans), but a price drop. The thing is just too damn expensive, especially in the current economic climate. I also think Sony need to re-evaluate how they fund their games. They need to realise that there's no point sending huge amounts of game development itself if they weren't going to spend similar amounts on marketing.

Honestly, imo KZ2 is one of the best shooters this gen, and an absolute technical marvel to boot. It certainly deserves more sales, but without proper marketing, it's not going to sell tremendously no matter how much hype or hate it gets on forums. Since we make up a very elite minority of actual consumers.

Either way, I think it will sail on to 2 million or so by the end of this year, and that can't be bad. Essentially double that of the first game and with far less user base. Could it have sold a lot more? Of course. But to say it sold poorly is doing it an equal disservice.

 

[Ramenman]

Yes. Developers must look in to their souls and ask themselves: "Okay, how else can we blow shit up?"

Volition did, and they made Red Faction Guerilla.

The only reason it has become a third person game is because in first person you were less aware of the debris crumbling around you and it was too frustrating to get kill by a ceiling you didn't even know was collapsing. But originally it was an FPS.

 

[Lightning]

To put it in perspective, when a game like Tomb Raider: Underworld, a product which took two years, had a team of ~70 people working on it, was rushed to market and had little advertising beyond gaming sites needs to sell 2.5 million copies before it starts to show a return how many copies of a game which was in the works for 4 years, had 100+ people working on it and had a large marketing campaign do you think will need to sell before it shows a return? I'm guessing 3.5 million +. Killzone 2 may limp to profitability but I am sure Sony is disappointed with these numbers for what must have been a massive investment.

Where the hell do you get this shit from? Because Aidos lowered their earnings because of TR Underworld's sales? You realize that Aidos could have lowered their margins because the game wasn't going to be as PROFITABLE as they would have wanted to offset other projects right? A game doesn't need to sell 3.5 million to make profit. That is retarded.

Konami didn't seem to have this issue with MGS4... Goodness me.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

But that's true. The first did sell over a million units, as has the sequel. Around 1.4m thus far and apparently with pretty good legs.

That was my point, Killzone 2 sales can be compared to Rainbow Six Vegas 2 sales.

 

[TheHeretic]

To put it in perspective, when a game like Tomb Raider: Underworld, a product which took two years, had a team of ~70 people working on it, was rushed to market and had little advertising beyond gaming sites needs to sell 2.5 million copies before it starts to show a return how many copies of a game which was in the works for 4 years, had 100+ people working on it and had a large marketing campaign do you think will need to sell before it shows a return? I'm guessing 3.5 million +. Killzone 2 may limp to profitability but I am sure Sony is disappointed with these numbers for what must have been a massive investment.

Needs to sell 2.5 million copies? Absurd and unfounded.

 

[Conflict NZ]

Where the hell do you get this shit from? Because Aidos lowered their earnings because of TR Underworld's sales? You realize right that Aidos could have lowered their margins because the game wasn't going to be as PROFITABLE as they would have wanted to offset other projects right? A game doesn't need to sell 3.5 million to make profit. That is retarded.

Konami didn't seem to have this issue with MGS4... Goodness me.

Woah calm down, I am simply stating what Eidos and many developers have stated previously, feel free to look it up if you don't believe me.

 

[Kenaras]

Halo Wars....all I can think about is what MS is going to do with the IP next. With that many demo downloads...I can't see a lot of people picking this up just for the name. Sure, many are probably big Halo fans and probably just find this kind of game cool because they can control Spartans and Warthogs and such....but ultimately I most are only going to pick up a game if they are happy with the gameplay,

/Crosses fingers for an expansion from Robot Entertainment with a Covenant campaign, new units, new leaders, and balance tweaks. $20 DLC would be ideal, but that's probably a pipe dream.

 

[grandjedi6]

SONY has FFXIII locked down where it matters the most

Spoiler

Japan

Yes because the 360 is going to take off in Japan any day now. ::rolls eyes::

Seriously, sometimes I think you're nothing but a joke character CHR..

Looking forward to GTA: San Andreas Stories for my PSP®

ah that's right, you are. Nevermind then!

 

[Blame!]

As a PS3 only owner I planned on buying the game until I played the demo. Sorry, the controls just don't work for me. I don't care if that's supposed to be more realistic, realism only matters if the game is fun. It wasn't fun fighting with the controls. Call me crazy but I think this game would have sold at least 1 million through the April NPD if it controlled exactly the same as the latest COD games.

this was the case for me and my buddies. we were stoked to finally play the demo and then all of us couldnt believe what we were actually playing. awful sluggish molasses aiming controls (we all play COD4 on ps3). what the fuck? why couldnt they just do a control system that felt good?

none of us ended up buying a copy of kz2 and i ended up renting it later and still hated it (post patch).

oh well.

 

[CHRP718]

Yes because the 360 is going to take off in Japan any day now. ::rolls eyes::

Seriously, sometimes I think you're nothing but a joke character CHR..


ah that's right, you are. Nevermind then!

wut?

 

[Blame!]

wut?

hahahaha whooooosh!! :lol

 

[Lightning]

Woah calm down, I am simply stating what Eidos and many developers have stated previously, feel free to look it up if you don't believe me.

Eidos didn't state that. Eidos lowered their earnings projections based on Underworld not performing as high as they hoped. It didn't need 2.5mil sales to cover costs....

Based on Konami's earnings, which were exceptionally good, MGS4 didn't even need that many sales to make great profit.

Also, if Rachet & Clank ToD can make profit with the sales it achieved (confirmed by jstevenson) then there is no way that Underworld wasn't very profitable. It just wasn't profitable enough to meet Eidos's ridiculous expectations.

 

[Halvie]

so sfiv didn't even make top 20 this month.....???

 

[Ramenman]

Thats basically what all hype for all games is based on. Multiplatform games very rarely get alot of hype unless they are from mega franchises. They may sell well but they dont get hype. Hype from both sides is usually based on fanboy arguments.

What ? Nooo, even on GAF, a lot of multi games get hype.

Assassin's Creed, Prince Of Persia, GTA IV (emphasis on this one), etc, I won't list them because there's no point, but I disagree with what you say.

 

[gconsole]

What ? Nooo, even on GAF, a lot of multi games get hype.

Assassin's Creed, Prince Of Persia, GTA IV (emphasis on this one), etc, I won't list them because there's no point, but I disagree with what you say.

Assassin's Creed only got hyped when it was PS3 exclusive
Prince of Persia , i never saw hype on this one
GTA IV, This one got hype because it is the best selling franchise from last gen, but i'm pretty its hype level never reach KZ2

Multi game get hype, but in different level compare to the exclusive one. Kill zone 2 is the best example.

 

[Slurmer]

Do you guys think KZ2 would've sold a lot better if it had more of a COD'ish feel as far as controls and movement are concerned? Maybe people wouldn't have been turned off by the demo then and it would've sold more in line with people's expectations.

 

[Gaborn]

I cant believe sonys biggest game hype wise for the last three years resulted in less sales of ps3s than the year before

I guess ps3 owners dont like fps games

This chart also puts a mockery on comment from the sony exec a few days ago when who talked about attatch rates as the 360 version of RE5 outsells the PS3 version two to one, in a month where they also bought a shed load of copies of halo aswell, totally highlights why mentioning attatch rates on one game is irrelevant

Technically the biggest game hype wise over the last 3 years or so would be LBP.

 

[gimmmick]

I did my part by purchasing a xbox360 verison of re5. Wow, I'm surprised it sold that well.

 

[kitch9]

But that's true. The first did sell over a million units, as has the sequel. Around 1.4m thus far and apparently with pretty good legs.

I think certain people need to realise that no single game is going to be the PS3's "saviour" (I've realised it's 360 fans that bring this up by the way and not PS3 fans), but a price drop. The thing is just too damn expensive, especially in the current economic climate. I also think Sony need to re-evaluate how they fund their games. They need to realise that there's no point sending huge amounts of game development itself if they weren't going to spend similar amounts on marketing.

Honestly, imo KZ2 is one of the best shooters this gen, and an absolute technical marvel to boot. It certainly deserves more sales, but without proper marketing, it's not going to sell tremendously no matter how much hype or hate it gets on forums. Since we make up a very elite minority of actual consumers.

Either way, I think it will sail on to 2 million or so by the end of this year, and that can't be bad. Essentially double that of the first game and with far less user base. Could it have sold a lot more? Of course. But to say it sold poorly is doing it an equal disservice.

I'm looking at the whole situation and thinking Sony must be planning to make the PS4 simply a beefed up PS3. There is a shed load of investment for apparantly little gain, but Sony's investors must know something.

Imagine if the PS4 was completely compatible with PS3 software, and PS4 devs were allowed to put a simply scaled down PS3 version of their games on the PS4 disc.... Sony could easily stand by their 10 year plan for the PS3 and all this investment on Engines etc etc would start to make sense. That along with the Blu-ray profits and NPD threads full of these :lol :lol :lol would no longer exist......

Its Sony so common sense may not occur, but damn man, they gotta be up to something..... Its gotta be a short term pain for long time gain scenario, they've been in business to long to not foresee how much damage their pricing would do in the short term.

 

[chris0701]

It's fun to see there are people still try to deny that KZ2 had greatest hype in this gen ever.

How much well-handed animatied gif were around the internet? How many threads about praising the visual we had seen?

Of course,KZ 2 is a great game.

 

[J-Rzez]

2008 Nov NPD：

Gears of War 2 (X360) – 1.56m
Call of Duty: World at War (X360) – 1.41m
Wii Play (Wii) – 796k
Wii Fit (Wii) – 697k
Mario Kart Wii (Wii) – 637k
Call of Duty: World at War (PS3) – 597k
Guitar Hero: World Tour (Wii) – 475k
Left for Dead (X360) – 410k
Resistance 2 (PS3) – 385k
Wii Music (Wii) – 297k

And..
Killzone 2:619k (Feb+Mar)

Sad sales for Sony

Considering WaW was riding the success of one of the most notable "namesakes" of this gen in MP, vs an exclusive that people may have been turned off to by some reviews, or word of mouth that it feels real and doesn't help out nubs with excessive autoaim, I think the game did really well. It should have legs. If it turns a profit world wide which matters most, then it's a win.

It's fun to see there are people still try to deny that KZ2 had greatest hype in this gen ever.

And it delivered game quality and gameplay wise. It absolutely deserves better sales than it got, but they're not exactly bad sales. It's Killzone, which has a stigma from the first one, and it being on the PS3. It's not Halo nor Call of Duty, which has shown the name branding sold really well with H3 and WaW. Not to mention the painful hurdle that is still the price of the PS3.

I'd still think that Gears 2, H3, or CoD4 had more "hype" for them. Positive hype that is.

 

[DCharlie]

Based on Konami's earnings, which were exceptionally good, MGS4 didn't even need that many sales to make great profit.

wait, that's quite a leap isn't it?

Considering WaW was riding the success of one of the most notable "namesakes" of this gen in MP, vs an exclusive that people may have been turned off to by some reviews, or word of mouth that it feels real and doesn't help out nubs with excessive autoaim, I think the game did really well. It should have legs. If it turns a profit world wide which matters most, then it's a win.

and WaW had no bad reviews, no bad word of mouth, no one hyped KZ2 MP, KZ2 purchasers were turned off by the Edge review and not the long list of 10/10 we were shown in the KZ2 thread, etc?

and to top it all, people who don't like it are nubs?

:lol. Wow.

i agree the sales aren't that bad in isolation, but given the history of KZ2 and , especially, the hype here amongst the sony fans, some of the spin is starting to look more than a little sad and desperate.

Game is great, game sold decent, it wasn't the monster the hype possibly suggested it was going to be in terms of sales. Why didn't it sell? Absolutely no clue. Bad marketting maybe? maybe scary hardcore hypers? General PS3 apathy?

 

[kitch9]

It's fun to see there are people still try to deny that KZ2 had greatest hype in this gen ever.

How much well-handed animatied gif were around the internet? How many threads about praising the visual we had seen?

Of course,KZ 2 is a great game.

It had the worst hype after that E3...... I'm not sure of that episode ended up helping or hindering it.

 

[Coolio McAwesome]

While I'm somewhat disappointed that MadWorld and China Town Wars didn't do better, I can't say that I'm really that surprised.

MadWorld clearly appeals to a very small niche audience. It has a very stylistic art style and - let's face it - beat 'em ups aren't exactly tearing up the sales charts in this day and age. To the typical GAF user, MadWorld looks pretty cool. To the average consumer, however, it looks "different." Different is not necessarily a good thing when it comes to sales - especially when it comes to core titles. (There is a reason why the industry relies so heavily on sequels.)

I though China Town Wars looked like shit, to be perfectly honest. They advertised the heck out of the game, but this doesn't really matter if the game doesn't look any good in the first place. I couldn't have been less interested in the game before its release, and it wasn't even on my radar. I was shocked when I started to see the reviews come in. Most consumers probably don't concern themselves with reviews, however, so they had to take China Town Wars at face value. I was expecting the game to suck and I can't imagine I was alone in this line of thinking.

 

[Ramenman]

GTA IV, This one got hype because it is the best selling franchise from last gen, but i'm pretty its hype level never reach KZ2

Multi game get hype, but in different level compare to the exclusive one. Kill zone 2 is the best example.

The post I quoted seemed to say that people were never hyped for non-exclusive things, and that's what I disagree with.


But yeah of course if the point is that Exclusive games get wayyyyyyyyyyyyy more (too much?) hype than multi ones, of course I agree. I even agree twice.


I mean look at Heavy Rain.

 

[bjaelke]

Halo Wars ++

Hopefully this will sprout more rts games for the consoles.

 

[Slurmer]

kz2 probably got more hype for its graphics than it did for being an exclusive.

and i can't wait for Heavy Rain. Hope it comes out this year.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

GTACW will sell over time, I bet that it will be a game that will sell through word of mouth. Like someone said before, a lot of people out there probably thought that it couldn't possibly be good but then were surprised at the reviews.

Madworld is set to follow Platinum Games/Clover Studios' previous games in terms of sales, sad to see

 

[supermackem]

Whats the sales to date on halo wars and kz2?, if you said they were close before launch i wouldve laughed at you. The biggest hyped ps3 exclusive up against a console rts.

 

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Its Sony so common sense may not occur, but damn man, they gotta be up to something..... Its gotta be a short term pain for long time gain scenario, they've been in business to long to not foresee how much damage their pricing would do in the short term.

Mistakes happen. They were clearly overconfident on the brand strength, and they couldn't foresee the actual economic crysis. And once you've developed a costly machine, it's hard to go back and make it cheaper. Microsoft discovered it by themselves on their first run, so Xbox 360 was designed be much more cost-competitive.

 

[chriskun]

How much did it cost to develop Killzone 2. Wasn't it rumored to be around the 100 million mark. If KZ2 sold 600k in america, that means its made about 36 million.

 

[nib95]

How much did it cost to develop Killzone 2. Wasn't it rumored to be around the 100 million mark. If KZ2 sold 600k in america, that means its made about 36 million.

Last I read was 30 or so million. It was at $20mil at the very end of 2007.

 

[Kitschkraft]

How much did it cost to develop Killzone 2. Wasn't it rumored to be around the 100 million mark. If KZ2 sold 600k in america, that means its made about 36 million.

I highly doubt that it or any other game has ever been that expensive. I've seen numbers that high being thrown around before, but have seen little confirmation.

And if Killzone 2 sold 600k, it's made Sony a lot less than 36 million. Thats just pure revenue, which is split between at least 3 different entities far as I know.

 

[TheOddOne]

Data care of NPD Group
Xbox 360 330K

For third month over 300k? With no real major release? Thats pretty amazing.

 

[antiloop]

Pokemon outsold KZ2 in the U.S.

Oh no.

 

[Panajev2001a]

It had the worst hype after that E3...... I'm not sure of that episode ended up helping or hindering it.

After the famous E3 video that backfired, the hype was "Nah, Sony/Guerrilla will NEVER deliver anything even remotely close to it... look at <insert Killzone 1 issues and then some puns>"... and that went on for a long time afterward... and it was not until much later that SCE's PR had material to hype the game with and reverse the trend.

People citing Killzone 2 as the best marketed and hyped game this gen are either a bit delusional or misled...

 

[Panajev2001a]

I highly doubt that it or any other game has ever been that expensive. I've seen numbers that high being thrown around before, but have seen little confirmation.

And if Killzone 2 sold 600k, it's made Sony a lot less than 36 million. Thats just pure revenue, which is split between at least 3 different entities far as I know.

True, but...

First, at least three different entities?!? Retailers make one entity, SCE makes the other entity (Guerrilla is fully owned)... I am sorry, but I cannot even make out a third party to split the revenue with let alone a fourth...

Second,

See? Countries!

 

[Kitschkraft]

True, but...

Not sure what you mean.

 

[chriskun]

I highly doubt that it or any other game has ever been that expensive. I've seen numbers that high being thrown around before, but have seen little confirmation.

And if Killzone 2 sold 600k, it's made Sony a lot less than 36 million. Thats just pure revenue, which is split between at least 3 different entities far as I know.

so how much profit goes directly to the developer, like 10 bucks or something?

 

[Panajev2001a]

Not sure what you mean.

Two things, first besides Retailers and SCE itself, who are the other parties SCE would have to split KZ2's revenue with?

Second, KZ2 did not sell only in the U.S., I am pretty sure it was sold in other countries too (like I said in the quote after the image citing a stand-up act ).

 

[Kitschkraft]

True, but...

First, at least three different entities?!? Retailers make one entity, SCE makes the other entity (Guerrilla is fully owned)... I am sorry, but I cannot even make out a third party to split the revenue with let alone a fourth...

I forgot that GG was fully owned.

Still, I was just pointing out that you can't just multiply the amount of games sold by the dollar amount to find out how much sony is making on the investment. Of course, there is many other factors I've neglected to even mention (How much are dollars compared to yen, that kind of stuff).

 

[SilverLunar]

why isn't the top 20 and top 10 of each system being posted from the get go??

:/

 

[kitch9]

For third month over 300k? With no real major release? Thats pretty amazing.

You haven't been doing this long have you?

 

[Panajev2001a]

I forgot that GG was fully owned.

Still, I was just pointing out that you can't just multiply the amount of games sold by the dollar amount to find out how much sony is making on the investment.

No, but it can give you a nice ballpark figure (if you can model the revenue splits and other costs [like the currency fluctuations, etc...]).

Of course, there is many other factors I've neglected to even mention (How much are dollars compared to yen, that kind of stuff).

We are grasping at straws now, aren't we ?

Let me say it like this, if SCE were that in danger of not breaking at least even with KZ2 that they had to cross their fingers and hope that the Euro-Yen-$ conversion rates do not fluctuate in a way that hurts them as far as recouping KZ2's development costs is concerned... if we are at that point, well that would mean KZ2 is doing really badly compared to its development costs :lol.

 

[Truant]

Too bad about Killzone 2. Not a big fan, but that shit was just as good as Gears of War, and was made for the same demographic. Should have sold just as well as the first Gears.

 

[NemesisPrime]

Not sure what you mean.

It is the classic NPD thread "but in the rest of teh world product XXXX is doing 10000 billion times better so we still rule!" reply.

 

[Dabanton]

Because it's GTA. I mean, fuck, it even managed to sell well on the PSP.

Yes but there was a fairly big difference. The PSP versions of the game were mini versions of the main console game the DS version was like an old school top down game, not exactly what the mainstream fan of the franchise expects.

I loved the game but then i used to play the old GTA's so the fact it's top down doesn't bother me.

 

[Psychotext]

Big openings + Long Legs = $$$$

Rawr :lol