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[Ashes]

comparing to the Wii launch is an totally unreasonable comparison.

the 360 gets to start that comparison with 21 million installed users...

At first glance that seemed like a great point. And it still is, except that Microsoft has been trying to crack the wii audience for a while now, everything casual has fallen flat on it's face. Now they genuinely have something that is selling quite a bit. At least in America that is. so they have a more genuine shot at created a million seller.
The only odd thing is that it only bested last year's November sales with Kinect sales it seems.

819K (last year)
700K (prediction based on comments in op)
____
1500

They sold about 1.37 million.

Where is the slim redesign boost in all this? What does this say about microsoft's core audience? Nothing actually, as we need to look at this six months down the line.

X360 did 1.31 million in Dec npd last year, a similar Kinect boost gives them around 2.3 million.

 

[Redbeard]

That launch price will burn into their soul for the rest of this generation.

They could have completely crushed MS if they launched at a decent price, the mindshare they had would have seen to that and MS would have had no chance with all the third party franchises that Sony had. And which through negligence and arrogance they have now lost.

Looking at next year in terms of software for PS3 from a gamers POV it looks strong from a sales POV i don't see much that is is going to move major units, i only see Uncharted 3 and that's what late oct/nov? the rest are imo mid to no hopers. If your potential exclusive big seller is that late in the year then only a price cut will suffice but will Sony want to do that too early?

The moment Sony moves on price it is going to sell major units.

If they can get the PS3 down to $199 somehow next year, it will be their highest selling year yet, and I anticipate this is when PS3 sales will peak (for the fiscal year the following year after the price cut). They can probably expect 18+ million sold world wide when this happens, maybe even 20 (this year they look to hit 16). Next year's forecast will tell us a lot in terms of how aggressive Sony plans to move on price. They want investors to see continued growth, and without a price cut next year they would be down.

The lineup for 2011 is stellar, but it's a combination of great software + price cut that's going to push systems, not just software alone (at least, for the long term). Software can only really push units for the month that it releases, unless it's an evergreen title which is incredibly rare and non existent for the type of games Sony tends to make.

 

[mm04]

At first glance that seemed like a great point. And it still is, except that microsoft has been trying to crack the wii audience for a while now, everything casual has fallen flat on it's face. Now they genuinely have something that is selling quite a bit. At least in america that is. so they have a more genuine shot at created a million seller.
The only odd thing is that it only bested last year's november sales with Kinect sales it seems.

819K (last year)
700K (prediction based on comments in op)
____
1500

They sold about 1.37 million.

Where is the slim redesign boost in all this? What does this say about microsoft's core audience? Nothing actually, as we need to look at this six months down the line.

x360 did 1.31 million in dec npd last year, a similiar kinect boost gives them around 2.3 million.

Although I see where you're coming from, you can't assume that each of those reasons for buying an Xbox 360 is mutually exclusive. Even without the Kinect launch, the console was trending over last year's sales anyway. You have to think that some of those people who bought the Kinect bundle decided why not give the Kinect a shot and get it at a discounted price with the console compared to buying the 2 seperately.

 

[Ashes]

The moment Sony moves on price it is going to sell major units.

If they can get the PS3 down to $199 somehow next year, it will be their highest selling year yet, and I anticipate this is when PS3 sales will peak (for the fiscal year the following year after the price cut). They can probably expect 18+ million sold world wide when this happens, maybe even 20 (this year they look to hit 16). Next year's forecast will tell us a lot in terms of how aggressive Sony plans to move on price. They want investors to see continued growth, and without a price cut next year they would be down.

The lineup for 2011 is stellar, but it's a combination of great software + price cut that's going to push systems, not just software alone (at least, for the long term). Software can only really push units for the month that it releases, unless it's an evergreen title which is incredibly rare and non existent for the type of games Sony tends to make.

Just looking at Metacritic now, software seems to have been steller for a couple of years. Software isn't king it seems. It's the expanded audience or the price point or a mixture of both. I think charlequin made the point that the ps3 did compete with x360 in the US, when it had its price cuts but I wonder whether it will have the same effect with x360 now having the 'kinnect boost'.

Although I see where you're coming from, you can't assume that each of those reasons for buying an Xbox 360 is mutually exclusive. Even without the Kinect launch, the console was trending over last year's sales anyway. You have to think that some of those people who bought the Kinect bundle decided why not give the Kinect a shot and get it at a discounted price with the console compared to buying the 2 seperately.

Fair point. That would make sense.

 

[Kolgar]

I think for the HD twins, it was more a matter of which one would hit "critical mass" first.

And by that, I mean the point at which one console truly differentiates itself from the other and rises to heaven, leaving the other to suck exhaust fumes.

I think this holiday season is that point, and I think that from here on out, Xbox 360 will be the HD console to beat. The PS3, with its pricing problems, Wii envy, game delays, inferior multiplatform titles, lack of cross-game chat, competition from $100 Blu-ray players, etc., etc., etc., is headed for Gamecube levels of consumer apathy; it's out of the serious running after this. Current owners will still receive nice big Sony exclusives and third-party support with ports of Xbox 360 games, but any hope of a rejuvenation for the platform is pretty much over.

 

[Arnie]

The moment Sony moves on price it is going to sell major units.

If they can get the PS3 down to $199 somehow next year, it will be their highest selling year yet, and I anticipate this is when PS3 sales will peak (for the fiscal year the following year after the price cut).

This is obvious, price cuts will always stimulate sales. The problem Sony have is that Microsoft are ready to counter whatever price restructuring Sony are planning, so any effect this may have will almost certainly be diluted.

 

[Ashes]

This is obvious, price cuts will always stimulate sales. The problem Sony have is that Microsoft are ready to counter whatever price restructuring Sony are planning, so any effect this may have will almost certainly be diluted.

How much lower can they get though? Even if they could I don't think Kinnect with x360 will go to $199 next year. Would Microsoft want that even?

I don't know if ps3 can drop $50 let alone hit $199. But If they can hit $199, they basically then retain parity with x360, if move is bundled with ps3 for $299.

 

[Road]

no, damn it. no.

every year they make a price cut. and you know what happens? their competitors simply go lower because they can (why would they allow Sony to undercut them???). and Sony continues to lose. by now we should all be well aware of that.

whatever the solution, cutting the price isn't the answer. not anymore. maybe in 2007 we could have had such a conversation, but that ship has sailed. they'll have to make it up in the product somehow.

unfortunately for them, it looks like that ship has also sailed. Xbox 360 found its mid-life revival and its secondary to a helluva lot of time, research and investment. I'm not sure Move will provide the same kind of revival for Sony. If not...well...I'm not sure where they go from here.


I don't think many people here expected Kinect itself to sell much more than a million or 2 in its first few months. much less some cheesy Kinect games. I certainly didn't.

Yep. Every year.

 

[Shurs]

So, in the past, we've gotten Wii Fit w/Balance board and Wii Play w/ WiiMote included in the top 10. Shouldn't Kinect Adventures, which is bundled with Kinect be a part of the top 10? Surely stand-alone Kinect units with Kinect Adventures sold more than 400k in November.

 

[Ashes]

So, in the past, we've gotten Wii Fit w/Balance board and Wii Play w/ WiiMote included in the top 10. Shouldn't Kinect Adventures, which is bundled with Kinect be a part of the top 10? Surely stand-alone Kinect units with Kinect Adventures sold more than 400k in November.

They stopped that though otherwise wii play would be in there.

edit: anyways if that counts, surely that would the first Kinnect multiplatinum?

 

[nextgeneration]

Not sure if this was posted, but I took a look at ps3 sales since Move launched and compared them to the same months last year and found this pretty shocking.

In the 2+ months since Move has been released (Sept 17), ps3 sales are down a cumulative 39.45% for the months of September, October, and November versus
the same months last year.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

So, in the past, we've gotten Wii Fit w/Balance board and Wii Play w/ WiiMote included in the top 10. Shouldn't Kinect Adventures, which is bundled with Kinect be a part of the top 10? Surely stand-alone Kinect units with Kinect Adventures sold more than 400k in November.

you're comparing software bundled with software and software bundled with hardware.

Yes, there is a difference.

 

[Shurs]

you're comparing software bundled with software and software bundled with hardware.

Yes, there is a difference.

Which one is software bundled with software?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

So, in the past, we've gotten Wii Fit w/Balance board and Wii Play w/ WiiMote included in the top 10. Shouldn't Kinect Adventures, which is bundled with Kinect be a part of the top 10? Surely stand-alone Kinect units with Kinect Adventures sold more than 400k in November.

I believe that would be classified as a hardware bundle, and thus not included. Wii Fit and Wii Play (and Mario Kart and Guitar Hero/Rock Band) are considered games which include accessories as part of the package.

 

[Ashes]

Not sure if this was posted, but I took a look at ps3 sales since Move launched and compared them to the same months last year and found this pretty shocking.

In the 2+ months since Move has been released (Sept 17), ps3 sales are down a cumulative 39.45% for the months of September, October, and November versus
the same months last year.

What about before move? For comparision's sake

 

[apana]

The moment Sony moves on price it is going to sell major units.

If they can get the PS3 down to $199 somehow next year, it will be their highest selling year yet, and I anticipate this is when PS3 sales will peak (for the fiscal year the following year after the price cut). They can probably expect 18+ million sold world wide when this happens, maybe even 20 (this year they look to hit 16). Next year's forecast will tell us a lot in terms of how aggressive Sony plans to move on price. They want investors to see continued growth, and without a price cut next year they would be down.

The lineup for 2011 is stellar, but it's a combination of great software + price cut that's going to push systems, not just software alone (at least, for the long term). Software can only really push units for the month that it releases, unless it's an evergreen title which is incredibly rare and non existent for the type of games Sony tends to make.

Not gonna happen. There is not enough demand for PS3 for it to ever reach close to 18 million even if it was at 199 dollars. 20 million is a dream, next year's lineup is weak as far as system sellers go and they may keep losing steam in the U.S. because of Kinect.

 

[Kolgar]

"If it smells like dead fish, it's probably dead fish."

--Steve Race, one-time president of Sony Computer Entertainment of America

 

[Clear]

Big surprise, Move is less compelling as hardware seller than a redesigned box and a price-cut... You can't do YOY comparisons without factoring in reasons for either month being unusually high or low.


The shocker for me is the increased traction on COD:BLOPS for PS3 over MW2, which really does show how weak Sony's core gamer lineup was for the month.

 

[nextgeneration]

What about before move? For comparision's sake

Well, prior to move, ps3 was on the up and up. Here are cumulative year over year comparisons for all the months:

January - 36.27%
February - 32.93%
March - 36.39%
April - 37.31%
May - 34.65%
June - 42.07%
July - 45.41%
August - 39.94%
September - 20.58%
October - 14.55%
November - 5.01%

Granted, ps3 sales are still up 5.01% year over year, but if December sales are just as disastrous as November's, ps3 sales could in the negative by the end of the year.

 

[Ashes]

Dec 2009 ps3: 1.36m
going by nextgeneration's post,
Dec 2010 is probably going to be around: 830 K

Damn. I think you've uncovered something there mate. Well done.

 

[Gadfly]

I think the fact that 250G SKUs are hard to come by (without or without Kinect), indicates that this November price was not a major factor in discrepancy between PS3 and 360 sales.

As far as software goes, it's not that exclusives or AAA games do not move hardware at all. But at this point in generation, new buyers look at the library available for each and extrapolate to the future and for a typical American new buyer, both consoles have comparable libraries. If your friends are all playing COD, the absence of KZ and Resistance is not going to matter much (again, to new buyers).

I think those PS2 players that were sitting on the fence waiting for a price drop to move to PS3 have moved on. Some are not gamers any more but would have bought PS3 earlier if price was right (which wasn't) and the rest moved to PS3 last year when Slim was released. Brand loyalty and nationalism that helps Sony in other markets are not present in US.

So, even though I think WW Sony will still manage to score the second place, I don't think a price cut will help them with catching up in the US.

 

[beelzebozo]

Which one is software bundled with software?

my guess is he meant to say "hardware bundled with software and software bundled with hardware." if that is not the case, then i too am puzzled.

 

[nextgeneration]

Dec 2009 ps3: 1.36m
going by nextgeneration's post,
Dec 2010 is probably going to be around: 830 K

Damn. I think you've uncovered something there mate. Well done.

Let me see if this works. This is my first time adding a chart here:

 

[Paracelsus]

Not gonna happen. There is not enough demand for PS3 for it to ever reach close to 18 million even if it was at 199 dollars. 20 million is a dream, next year's lineup is weak as far as system sellers go and they may keep losing steam in the U.S. because of Kinect.

System sellers this gen have almost been chimeras, as far as HD system go, probably only Halo, GoW and MGS4 for a brief period and CoD. It's more or less like with Japanese market: if you don't keep a constant release schedule you won't go far, and Sony this year totally failed in that regard, especially for a 299$ console beginning its fifth year in the market.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

For all its flaws, I prefer my PS3 to 360...better exclusives on a whole, in my view, Blu-Ray player, far cleaner, superior interface, yet...it's not going to outsell the 360. It's simply not - I think the latest sales show that Sony's best chance of recapturing the zeitgeist is to have the PS4 on shelves and costing no more than £250 / $300 by late 2012 at the absolute latest.

I may prefer Sony's offering, but Microsoft deserve their runners' up spot - The 360 arrived a year earlier than PS3, it has less esoteric hardware and is therefore far easier for third parties to work on, it was priced infinitely more realistically and they snared a load of games which were pretty much synonymous with PlayStation in the past - They didn't just get ports, they saw to it that simultaneous releases were granted. They've done a great job.

 

[Gadfly]

Well, prior to move, ps3 was on the up and up. Here are cumulative year over year comparisons for all the months:

January - 36.27%
February - 32.93%
March - 36.39%
April - 37.31%
May - 34.65%
June - 42.07%
July - 45.41%
August - 39.94%
September - 20.58%
October - 14.55%
November - 5.01%

Granted, ps3 sales are still up 5.01% year over year, but if December sales are just as disastrous as November's, ps3 sales could in the negative by the end of the year.

Is this sarcasm or you are really forgetting that Move coincidently was released in the same month as Slim and price cut last year?

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Just looking at Metacritic now, software seems to have been steller for a couple of years. Software isn't king it seems. It's the expanded audience or the price point or a mixture of both. I think charlequin made the point that the ps3 did compete with x360 in the US, when it had its price cuts but I wonder whether it will have the same effect with x360 now having the 'kinnect boost'.

Right, good software for the system has never been a problem for PS3 especially in it's last few years. There is a reason why the US is turning away from the PS3 and it's not because of the games available.

 

[nextgeneration]

Is this sarcasm or you are really forgetting that Move coincidently was released in the same month as Slim and price cut last year?

No, I haven't forgotten that, but still, I did not expect ps3 sales to have fallen that far in the past 3 months. If you take a look at other consoles and compare the same months in which price cuts have happened, I don't think the comparison would have been this bad.

 

[Ashes]

Is this sarcasm or you are really forgetting that Move coincidently was released in the same month as Slim and price cut last year?

Good point. But the trend still stands.

 

[Redbeard]

I think for the HD twins, it was more a matter of which one would hit "critical mass" first.

And by that, I mean the point at which one console truly differentiates itself from the other and rises to heaven, leaving the other to suck exhaust fumes.

I think this holiday season is that point, and I think that from here on out, Xbox 360 will be the HD console to beat. The PS3, with its pricing problems, Wii envy, game delays, inferior multiplatform titles, lack of cross-game chat, competition from $100 Blu-ray players, etc., etc., etc., is headed for Gamecube levels of consumer apathy; it's out of the serious running after this. Current owners will still receive nice big Sony exclusives and third-party support with ports of Xbox 360 games, but any hope of a rejuvenation for the platform is pretty much over.

And yet it continues to outsell the 360 world wide, despite lagging behind in one single territory.

All the hyperbolic comments and wishful thinking above (gamecube level of apathy for a console selling 16 million per year with an installed base over 40), won't change that
reality.

360 has always been the dominant HD console in the US, this is never going to change. PS3 has consistently outsold the 360, world wide, for a number of years IIRC. I don't see this trend reversing.

This is obvious, price cuts will always stimulate sales. The problem Sony have is that Microsoft are ready to counter whatever price restructuring Sony are planning, so any effect this may have will almost certainly be diluted.

Microsoft can counter, but I'm speaking more to the effect it will have world wide. In the US, a price cut by MS will certainly dilute its effect. 360 will likely still continue to outsell the PS3 in the US, and there may be a few odd months were PS3 does the opposite. But on a global scale, PS3 price cuts will have a much greater impact than 360 price cuts. 360 has been $199 for a while, Sony hasn't hit that target price yet.

Not gonna happen. There is not enough demand for PS3 for it to ever reach close to 18 million even if it was at 199 dollars. 20 million is a dream, next year's lineup is weak as far as system sellers go and they may keep losing steam in the U.S. because of Kinect.

It's on track to sell 16 million this year.

I don't see how 18-20 million is unrealistic in the PS3's peak years with a $199 price point.

Big surprise, Move is less compelling as hardware seller than a redesigned box and a price-cut... You can't do YOY comparisons without factoring in reasons for either month being unusually high or low.


The shocker for me is the increased traction on COD:BLOPS for PS3 over MW2, which really does show how weak Sony's core gamer lineup was for the month.

What core offerings did Microsoft have in November? Sony had GT5.

The transition has nothing to do with any perceived weak lineup. My guess is that as CoD continues to become more mainstream, and more casual, the more casual players are flocking to the PS3 due to the price cut from last year and the free online.

 

[nextgeneration]

Good point. But the trend still stands.

Yes, good point, but it's still bad. Let me see if I can dig up some numbers for other consoles and compare the first few months of a system's price drop, so that we're on equal footing here.

 

[Gadfly]

No, I haven't forgotten that, but still, I did not expect ps3 sales to have fallen that far in the past 3 months. If you take a look at other consoles and compare the same months in which price cuts have happened, I don't think the comparison would have been this bad.

The effect of price cut and slim was a lot shorter than many of us thought. For a while it was attributed to shortage that followed but I am not sure any more.

 

[nextgeneration]

The effect of price cut and slim was a lot shorter than many of us thought. For a while it was attributed to shortage that followed but I am not sure any more.

Was there ever a shortage, though? I don't remember there being shortages for ps3. Maybe it was harder to find, yes, but it was nowhere near on the same levels of wii, if I'm not mistaken. While ps3 may have been sold out in many places after the price drop, you could still find them. I could be mistaken, though, so correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[donny2112]

NPD always combined all the sku's in the reports,

No, it started in September 2007 with Halo 3, and even then it's only in the publicly released reports. They continued to track games separately in the full data lists.

.

It's for the exact reason that was already stated. smh.

 

[Gadfly]

And yet it continues to outsell the 360 world wide, despite lagging behind in one single territory.

All the hyperbolic comments and wishful thinking above (gamecube level of apathy for a console selling 16 million per year with an installed base over 40), won't change that
reality.

360 has always been the dominant HD console in the US, this is never going to change. PS3 has consistently outsold the 360, world wide, for a number of years IIRC. I don't see this trend reversing.



Microsoft can counter, but I'm speaking more to the effect it will have world wide. In the US, a price cut by MS will certainly dilute its effect. 360 will likely still continue to outsell the PS3 in the US, and there may be a few odd months were PS3 does the opposite. But on a global scale, PS3 price cuts will have a much greater impact than 360 price cuts. 360 has been $199 for a while, Sony hasn't hit that target price yet.




It's on track to sell 16 million this year.

I don't see how 18-20 million is unrealistic in the PS3's peak years with a $199 price point.




What core offerings did Microsoft have in November? Sony had GT5.

The transition has nothing to do with any perceived weak lineup. My guess is that as CoD continues to become more mainstream, and more casual, the more casual players are flocking to the PS3 due to the price cut from last year and the free online.

The rest of the world is not really a level playing field. Nationalism and brand loyalty (both working for Sony and against Microsoft) play a much greater role in Japan and Europe. It will take several generations to change this (if it can be changed at all).

 

[OldJadedGamer]

360 has always been the dominant HD console in the US, this is never going to change. PS3 has consistently outsold the 360, world wide, for a number of years IIRC. I don't see this trend reversing.

Microsoft can counter, but I'm speaking more to the effect it will have world wide. In the US, a price cut by MS will certainly dilute its effect. 360 will likely still continue to outsell the PS3 in the US, and there may be a few odd months were PS3 does the opposite. But on a global scale, PS3 price cuts will have a much greater impact than 360 price cuts. 360 has been $199 for a while, Sony hasn't hit that target price yet.

Yes, we can all agree that PS3 is last place forever till the end of the gen. If we go off topic and discuss worldwide sales then maybe the PS3 will catch up using other regions to make up for drastic difference in the US but at the end of the day, it won't matter at all. If Sony is 2nd place worldwide that won't change anything in the least than if they are in third. MS has already grabbed the biggest game market and has support from developers and publishers from regions where they don't sell as well.

In the end, it's only Europeans that really care and they are the ones pushing the PS3 ahead and the ones on GAF that will always mention worldwide sales in NPD threads. Again, in the end if Sony is in second or third place this gen worldwide, users in the US won't give a single shit since it won't change a single thing.

The rest of the world is not really a level playing field. Nationalism and brand loyalty (both working for Sony and against Microsoft) play a much greater role in Japan and Europe. It will take several generations to change this (if it can be changed at all).

Right, there is a reason the Sega Master System was only popular in Europe. American's don't really give a shit about brand loyalty.

 

[apana]

And yet it continues to outsell the 360 world wide, despite lagging behind in one single territory.

All the hyperbolic comments and wishful thinking above (gamecube level of apathy for a console selling 16 million per year with an installed base over 40), won't change that
reality.

360 has always been the dominant HD console in the US, this is never going to change. PS3 has consistently outsold the 360, world wide, for a number of years IIRC. I don't see this trend reversing.



Microsoft can counter, but I'm speaking more to the effect it will have world wide. In the US, a price cut by MS will certainly dilute its effect. 360 will likely still continue to outsell the PS3 in the US, and there may be a few odd months were PS3 does the opposite. But on a global scale, PS3 price cuts will have a much greater impact than 360 price cuts. 360 has been $199 for a while, Sony hasn't hit that target price yet.




It's on track to sell 16 million this year.

I don't see how 18-20 million is unrealistic in the PS3's peak years with a $199 price point.

I thought they were aiming for 15 million? If December sales are also bad they may have a struggle reaching that number.

 

[Kujo]

PS3 has a ton of games I want to play, and even I'm waiting on a price drop before I "jump in"

Now if I were a betting man I might say that we could also see a slimmer (and cheaper to make) PS3 next year as well

360 will always be ahead of PS3 LTD in USA though

 

[Redbeard]

Yes, we can all agree that PS3 is last place forever till the end of the gen. If we go off topic and discuss worldwide sales then maybe the PS3 will catch up using other regions to make up for drastic difference in the US but at the end of the day, it won't matter at all. If Sony is 2nd place worldwide that won't change anything in the least than if they are in third. MS has already grabbed the biggest game market and has support from developers and publishers from regions where they don't sell as well.

In the end, it's only Europeans that really care and they are the ones pushing the PS3 ahead and the ones on GAF that will always mention worldwide sales in NPD threads. Again, in the end if Sony is in second or third place this gen worldwide, users in the US won't give a single shit since it won't change a single thing.

My comment had nothing to do with PS3's sales advantage over the 360 globally 'changing a thing'. I don't see it changing anything from a third party perspective.

I was merely replying to a poster that claimed the 360 would rise to the heavens as an HD victor and that the PS3 would fall off the map and enter gamecube levels of apathy, a statement which I find laughably hyperbolic.

I thought they were aiming for 15 million? If December sales are also bad they may have a struggle reaching that number.

You may be right about 15 million. I could have had the numbers confused. Still, 18 million doesn't seem unreasonable to me. A net gain of 3 million WW for a $100 price drop.

Their line up is stellar to who? The people that already own Uncharted 1 and 2, Resistance 1 and 2, Motor storm 1 and 2, Killzone 2, Socom Whatever it was again and MAG, LBP1, Ratchet and Clank 4 and 5, Warhawk, Infamous 1, and so forth. Nearly their entire 2011 line up has been seen several times over already. Why would a line up that consists of already heavily marketed sequels, released multiple times this gen, suddenly turn the tide.

I'm not disagreeing with this statement, it's why I said price drop will have the biggest impact. But good software + a price drop does have some sort of synergistic effect. Many people likely want to play those games and their sequels, but aren't willing to jump in at the current price.

 

[shintoki]

The lineup for 2011 is stellar, but it's a combination of great software + price cut that's going to push systems, not just software alone (at least, for the long term). Software can only really push units for the month that it releases, unless it's an evergreen title which is incredibly rare and non existent for the type of games Sony tends to make.

Their line up is stellar to who? The people that already own Uncharted 1 and 2, Resistance 1 and 2, Motor storm 1 and 2, Killzone 2, Socom Whatever it was again and MAG, LBP1, Ratchet and Clank 4 and 5, Warhawk, Infamous 1, and so forth. Nearly their entire 2011 line up has been seen several times over already. Why would a line up that consists of already heavily marketed sequels, released multiple times this gen, suddenly turn the tide.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

What will be of great interest is the beginning of the next generation, for one reason.

It will be the first time Microsoft release a console on the back of a generation which they have for the most part lead (excluding the Wii of course).

Now on paper that should give them a great advantage, but will they become complacent like Sony or will they hit the ground running? Time will tell.

 

[EagleEyes]

My comment had nothing to do with PS3's sales advantage over the 360 globally 'changing a thing'. I don't see it changing anything from a third party perspective.

I was merely replying to a poster that claimed the 360 would rise to the heavens as an HD victor and that the PS3 would fall off the map and enter gamecube levels of apathy, a statement which I find laughably hyperbolic.



You may be right about 15 million. I could have had the numbers confused. Still, 18 million doesn't seem unreasonable to me. A net gain of 3 million WW for a $100 price drop.

If you don't mind me asking, where are you from?

 

[apana]

My comment had nothing to do with PS3's sales advantage over the 360 globally 'changing a thing'. I don't see it changing anything from a third party perspective.

I was merely replying to a poster that claimed the 360 would rise to the heavens as an HD victor and that the PS3 would fall off the map and enter gamecube levels of apathy, a statement which I find laughably hyperbolic.



You may be right about 15 million. I could have had the numbers confused. Still, 18 million doesn't seem unreasonable to me. A net gain of 3 million WW for a $100 price drop.

Also isn't a hundred dollar price drop a little extreme? I could see them doing another redesign where they take out some stuff and get it down to 250. By the time its 200 dollars we may already be gearing up for Wii 2 and Xbox 720.

 

[Megadragon15]

What will be of great interest is the beginning of the next generation, for one reason.

It will be the first time Microsoft release a console on the back of a generation which they have for the most part lead (excluding the Wii of course).

Now on paper that should give them a great advantage, but will they become complacent like Sony or will they hit the ground running? Time will tell.

You know there is already a blueprint that Microsoft seems to be following in the US: Sega. Abandon their first console, sell really well their second console and end up in second, and then the stink bomb hits...

 

[Ashes]

Yes, we can all agree that PS3 is last place forever till the end of the gen. If we go off topic and discuss worldwide sales then maybe the PS3 will catch up using other regions to make up for drastic difference in the US but at the end of the day, it won't matter at all. If Sony is 2nd place worldwide that won't change anything in the least than if they are in third. MS has already grabbed the biggest game market and has support from developers and publishers from regions where they don't sell as well.
In the end, it's only Europeans that really care and they are the ones pushing the PS3 ahead and the ones on GAF that will always mention worldwide sales in NPD threads. Again, in the end if Sony is in second or third place this gen worldwide, users in the US won't give a single shit since it won't change a single thing.
Right, there is a reason the Sega Master System was only popular in Europe. American's don't really give a shit about brand loyalty.

Not necessarily true. How can Sony continue to expand or continue to keep it's large stable of studios if it is lagging behind in the console marketshare? It would not make financial sense to support so many studios at once... Europe seems to be holding up Sony.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

My comment had nothing to do with PS3's sales advantage over the 360 globally 'changing a thing'. I don't see it changing anything from a third party perspective.

I was merely replying to a poster that claimed the 360 would rise to the heavens as an HD victor and that the PS3 would fall off the map and enter gamecube levels of apathy, a statement which I find laughably hyperbolic.

Well, the PS3 falling off to GameCube levels is hyperbolic but MS being the HD winner is a reality that is a fact and won't change for the rest of this generation.

Not necessarily true. How can Sony continue to expand or continue to keep it's large stable of studios if it is lagging behind in the console marketshare? It would not make financial sense to support so many studios at once... Europe seems to be holding up Sony.

Nintendo continued to support the GameCube with quality first party software while they were in third place. Sega made some of the best games ever as a company when they were in third/fourth place. What place you are doesn't necessarily dictate the quality of your first party line up.

 

[nextgeneration]

The effect of price cut and slim was a lot shorter than many of us thought. For a while it was attributed to shortage that followed but I am not sure any more.

Well, looking at my spreadsheet, I didn't make many notations of when so and so system's price dropped, so I can't use another system as reference here. I guess what we can safely say at this point, though, is that move has failed to the be the same ignitor that the slim/price drop was for ps3 last year, while kinect has been a great ignitor for 360. Can we agree to that?

 

[Megadragon15]

Well, looking at my spreadsheet, I didn't make many notations of when so and so system's price dropped, so I can't use another system as reference here. I guess what we can safely say at this point, though, is that move has failed to the be the same ignitor that the slim/price drop was for ps3 last year, while kinect has been a great ignitor for 360. Can we agree to that?

You should probably add the 360 slim in there. Its introduction was a turning point.

 

[BoilersFan23]

Their line up is stellar to who? The people that already own Uncharted 1 and 2, Resistance 1 and 2, Motor storm 1 and 2, Killzone 2, Socom Whatever it was again and MAG, LBP1, Ratchet and Clank 4 and 5, Warhawk, Infamous 1, and so forth. Nearly their entire 2011 line up has been seen several times over already. Why would a line up that consists of already heavily marketed sequels, released multiple times this gen, suddenly turn the tide.

You forgot Last Guardian. PS3 has a ton of awesome games next year and I'm excited.

What I find a bit interesting is while it seems like the 360 userbase is growing, software doesn't seem to be growing when comparing PS3 vs. 360 version sales. From what I have gathered, I barely know many people who are just buying a 360 the first time. Most I heard buying the 360 slim bought one because their original 360 broke or has been giving them issues. The main new buyers I see are the ones buying the Kinect bundle. While there's no denying that some PS3 slim buyers were only upgrading their PS3 fat, I honestly feel there's a higher percentage of newer 360 consoles sold to people wanting to upgrade compared to PS3.

Last year Sony got a big boost in NA because of pricecut, new slim console, and new marketing. This year there was no pricecut or anything. MS released a new design, which can boost sales. The year after Sony dropped the PS3 prices (when they released the 80GB fat with no PS2 BC), PS3 sales started to slow because of that. Honestly, I doubt Sony is disappointed at all because they are starting to profit on PS3 consoles, compared to losing money before.

 

[fernoca]

You know there is already a blueprint that Microsoft seems to be following in the US: Sega. Abandon their first console, sell really well their second console and end up in second, and then the stink bomb hits...

Seeing it that way, that would be part of the plan.
Their intention was always to take marketshare out of Sony's PlayStation brand and they did. The general public no longer sees the PlayStation as the omnipotent brand; same way the release of the PlayStation also affected Nintendo back then.

At the same time, they abandoned the original Xbox, because of the many problems it had with nVidia and other related aspects that forbid them to even redesign the units. So is not like they had any other options if they wanted to make some profits in the meantime.

You forgot Last Guardian. PS3 has a ton of awesome games next year and I'm excited.

What I find a bit interesting is while it seems like the 360 userbase is growing, software doesn't seem to be growing when comparing PS3 vs. 360 version sales. From what I have gathered, I barely know many people who are just buying a 360 the first time. Most I heard buying the 360 slim bought one because their original 360 broke or has been giving them issues. The main new buyers I see are the ones buying the Kinect bundle. While there's no denying that some PS3 slim buyers were only upgrading their PS3 fat, I honestly feel there's a higher percentage of newer 360 consoles sold to people wanting to upgrade compared to PS3.

Think was discussed already early.
Attach ratio of Xbox 360 games is still higher than the others and removing the "re-buys" of consoles, would only make the attach-ratio higher.