nextgeneration
Member
Megadragon15 said:
Do you know when the 360 slim launched?
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NPD Sales Results For November 2010 [Update 6: PSP, PS2, Move Games]
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
Do you know when the 360 slim launched?
OldJadedGamer said:
I agree with you but it isn't a fact. This set of sales seem to cement the trend for the rest of the generation, but stranger things have happened.
ps. adding to what BoilersFan23 said, I can't for the life of me work out how ps3 cod picked up nearly ten percent marketshare. Especially in light of all these new x360 users. What has been the best explanation so far?
Opus Angelorum
Member
Back in February of this year the $299 PS3 was selling at a loss of $18, it then broke even and turned a small profit as of April.
In February Sony stated that the aim was to reduce the manufacturing cost by 15% ($48) by March 2011. The PS3 would then cost $270 to produce.
Now this figure is not entirely accurate, as further unforeseen improvements in manufacturing may bring the cost per unit down even further. However it's unlikely to be a significant amount more.
So for the PS3 to hit $199, Sony would again have to sell it at a loss. This, is not going to happen.
A $249 bundle next holiday is your best bet, nothing less.
In February Sony stated that the aim was to reduce the manufacturing cost by 15% ($48) by March 2011. The PS3 would then cost $270 to produce.
Now this figure is not entirely accurate, as further unforeseen improvements in manufacturing may bring the cost per unit down even further. However it's unlikely to be a significant amount more.
So for the PS3 to hit $199, Sony would again have to sell it at a loss. This, is not going to happen.
A $249 bundle next holiday is your best bet, nothing less.
test_account
XP-39C²
Stumpokapow said:NPD stopped tracking for November on the 27th. Epic Mickey came out the 30th. So it would be tracked for December, rather than November.
Ah ok, i see, thanks for the info to the both of you!fernoca said:The game was released November 30. NPD covered till November 27.
EDIT:
There.
I guess we have to wait and see the next 6 months before concluding Kinect "has been a great igniter" for 360. All we can say at the moment is that Slim and price cut didn't do for Sony (long term) in US.nextgeneration said:Well, looking at my spreadsheet, I didn't make many notations of when so and so system's price dropped, so I can't use another system as reference here. I guess what we can safely say at this point, though, is that move has failed to the be the same ignitor that the slim/price drop was for ps3 last year, while kinect has been a great ignitor for 360. Can we agree to that?
But who knows where would they be if it wasn't for Slim? Maybe less than 400K for November.
Megadragon15
Member
June 14, 2010 according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360nextgeneration said:
nextgeneration
Member
Gadfly said:
True, it's just been one month, so not good sample size.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Karma said:
Sounds about right, when the PS3 hits $199 the next Xbox will be in the wild.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
BoilersFan23 said:
Is there some set number of posts that have to go by before we get this again?
Ashes1396 said:
The PS3 is almost 10 million behind. You really think they will catch up after 4 years in and still $100 more? As for the second question about COD... don't forget Halo Reach came out just a month and half before.
Desperate-Age total:lolRedbeard said:
First you state your wishful guess as a fact, now you straight up lie.:lol PS3 was outselling 360 in the last 5 quarters. Before that, MS had the upper hand for several quarters.
It doesn't matter if these IPs aren't familiar to people who don't have a PS3. Great games (assuming they're great) with good marketing generate buzz around the platform, no doubt about it.
Opus Angelorum said:
It was already confirmed that they brought costs down even further this fall. So the $270 figure could be closer to $250.
Next year, they may be able to do yet another hardware revision, making the PS3 less square and more rectangular in shape, and dropping lots of power components due to increased power efficiency of the chips. This could drop it to around $230.
And then we also have a scenario where Sony could go with their own 'arcade' SKU, by adding in 16 GB of internal flash memory, which should save them $20 or more compared to a laptop hard drive. So you're looking at around $210 for the arcade model, and maybe $230 for the HDD version.
A loss of $10 for the arcade, a profit of $20 for the HDD model. If they have $199 and $250 pricing tiers.
This is just speculation, but I think they have a few cards in play that could easily get them to the $199 figure sooner than many think.
BoilersFan23
Member
Oh the slim definitely helped in NA. One big problem is that when PS3 had many great games out in Feb./Mar. this year, they could not meet demand consumer demand. GameStop was even taking reserves for PS3 consoles when they never had to since launch. People either had to buy used (which eventually depleted at GS stores) or buy another console. I do feel that if they did a better job with supply, they could have kept momentum going easier.Gadfly said:
Many of 360 owners are still playing Reach.Ashes1396 said:
Last year my son bought COD right away. This year he didn't. He's still playing Reach with his friends.
Yes, COD is bigger than Halo now but Halo still can delay migration to COD for some.
Opus Angelorum said:
Just like 299$ was not going to happen last year, 349$ at best in 2010. In fact if my memory doesn't fail you were one of those people
That figure you're reporting is not accurate at all. How can they be profitable on the hardware since April 2010 if they planned to cut their cost to just 270$ by next March?
And not only that, they have been profitable since April but in September an other revision came which made their profit margin even bigger.
199$ is where it's at, next fall at the latest
With the current model I would agree. But if they can integrate the CPU+GPU on the same package with a die reduction, they'll reduce the PCB size, the cooling needed, they can cut the power supply (maybe bring it out of the case even), save money on the chasis. Along with RAM and Blu-ray laser prices dropping fast. I think a redesigned PS3 would be at least close to breaking even at $199 with a Q3 releaseOpus Angelorum said:
Your apple to oranges comparison is ridiculous. You only need to know sales of individual SKUs (standard, collectors' editions etc) only if you need to compare revenues which you don't seem to be doing. If you want to know to compare unit sales of different games, combining SKUs is the only reasonable option.donny2112 said:
OldJadedGamer said:
I was merely thinking about the x360's attempts at taking a shot at the wii. Who really predicted that? and the wii's performance this year? And I know you don't like talk about other territories but the fact that the ps3 is competing with wii in the year in run in japan surprises me.
Stranger things have happened is all I'm saying, even if I do agree with you for the most part.
And just everything you said (wishful thinking aside), can be applied to 360.Redbeard said:
If Sony's strategy is to do x, y and z while their competitor stands by idle, well... Maybe they should go back to expecting "people to get a second job in order to buy their pricy product" or pin their hopes on "PS3 selling gangbuster without any game".
Microsoft will always be able to have a significantly cheaper 360. No HDD, smaller chipset(s), one memory bus less, DVD instead of BRD (even if price difference becomes smaller and smaller, DVD will always be cheaper). Not to mention Nintendo. Going for price wars just isn't an option for Sony, they'll sacrifice profitability for nothing.Mojo said:
Opus Angelorum
Member
Elios83 said:Just like 299$ was not going to happen last year, 349$ at best in 2010. In fact if my memory doesn't fail you were one of those people
That figure you're reporting is not accurate at all. How can they be profitable on the hardware since April 2010 if they planned to cut their cost to just 270$ by next March?
And not only that, they have been profitable since April but in September an other revision came which made their profit margin even bigger.
199$ is where it's at, next fall at the latest
I never once predicted the price of the PS3 this year, someone else.
The cost-reduction was not something that was suddenly going to occur on the 1st of March 2011, it's quite obvious as you say that they have been making a profit since April. However.
This profit could literally be as low as $1 (Shuhei Yoshida - "we aren't making huge money from hardware, but we aren't bleeding like we used to.") so suggesting that the PS3 may only cost Sony $249 in March is no more accurate than $270.
It would be great if the PS3 was available for $199 next holiday, it won't be.
Elios83 said:Just like 299$ was not going to happen last year, 349$ at best in 2010. In fact if my memory doesn't fail you were one of those people
That figure you're reporting is not accurate at all. How can they be profitable on the hardware since April 2010 if they planned to cut their cost to just 270$ by next March?
And not only that, they have been profitable since April but in September an other revision came which made their profit margin even bigger.
199$ is where it's at, next fall at the latest
Hadn't read this before; Do you remember where you read this?
And on a separate note, I don't think, Microsoft will move to $99, they will want to compete at $199. If anything they might include kinnect with x360 for lower price, rather then go to $99.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Ashes1396 said:
Well, I did say "HD winner" so not sure why the Wii would be a part of that. I don't mind talking about worldwide sales, as long as it's in a thread about worldwide sales. As for the topic on hand which is sales in the US, again... there is no way that the PS3 would ever catch up to the 360 and in the same light there is no way the 360 will ever catch up to the Wii. The placement of this generation are stuck in stone and nothing is going to change it. We are just too far into the gen for anything to change.
Opus Angelorum
Member
Ashes1396 said:
I wasn't aware of it either.
Doing some research there are three PS3 Slim models that have been released:
CECH-20 - The first, released late 2009
CECH-21 - The major revision reducing the RSX from 65nm to 45nm, released in March 2010
CECH-25 - Added larger harddrive(s), released in July 2010
Now if there is one that was released in September, I'm all ears.
With BR it will become a point where the difference if only a few dollars, and Sony was able to reduce the size of their mainboard faster than MS was, those shouldn't have a huge impact. Of course HDD is an issue, and those prices bottom out to a point where they can't get much cheaper. The way around that would be to use flash memory, but I believe many PS3 games install a whole chuck of data? So you'd need a fair amount and it's probably not worth it at the moment.szaromir said:
A HDD-less 360 will always be cheaper to make, but I don't think that means Sony should not try to get to the $199 point soon. They've got a bunch of games coming out next year, the more available buyers the better.
OldJadedGamer said:
And I'm saying it only takes one insane out of the blue shot to change the game. This industry changes so quick sometimes. For the hd consoles, we haven't had the definitive console mover of the generation, unless you count gears 1 perhaps. I don't see anything from next year's line up that can change the game up like that though, or in the next couple of years. No gta or anything of that calibre. We know historically that a single platform game, without bundling, can give us the stratospheric 17 million plus sales. What is that hd game? Wii games of course can do that and have done that, so why not a hd console?
IoCaster
Member
The thing that I see as a predominately PC gamer and casual observer is that MS is determined to claim the US as their home territory. They have effectively sidelined the PS3 as a competitor in the US with better multiplat sales and performance. They've also marginalized it to the extent that PS3 exclusives don't move hardware and barely make an impact on the sales charts. If they can completely dominate Sony in the US marketplace and be somewhat competitive with them in the EU and be profitable overall then they've been successful this gen.
The only realistic strategy for MS has always been to claim a territory (US) and consolidate their foothold. Take it one step at a time from that point. They've managed to push Sony aside in the US and now have to chip away at Nintendo with Kinect going forward. The idea is to attempt to gain marketshare in the US from Sony and Nintendo with the X360 and the next gen of consoles. The one implicit goal that MS has that I can discern is to lock down the US as home ground and make Sony and Nintendo fight for every scrap off the table going forward. It makes sense that they're going to concentrate on the US market and gladly take whatever they can gain in other territories.
Perhaps I'm wrong and what looks obvious to me is just moronic conjecture. Anyway, I'm not a sales-age type of guy and I'll go away now.
The only realistic strategy for MS has always been to claim a territory (US) and consolidate their foothold. Take it one step at a time from that point. They've managed to push Sony aside in the US and now have to chip away at Nintendo with Kinect going forward. The idea is to attempt to gain marketshare in the US from Sony and Nintendo with the X360 and the next gen of consoles. The one implicit goal that MS has that I can discern is to lock down the US as home ground and make Sony and Nintendo fight for every scrap off the table going forward. It makes sense that they're going to concentrate on the US market and gladly take whatever they can gain in other territories.
Perhaps I'm wrong and what looks obvious to me is just moronic conjecture. Anyway, I'm not a sales-age type of guy and I'll go away now.
Claiming a territory means you are the leader in that marketplace. And Marketshare wise, the wii leads by some distance*. Not the first person to say this, but it's strange era we live in. The dominant console isn't so dominant. They just took a different share of the pie or something, by creating a bigger pie.
*in all territories.
*in all territories.
Opus Angelorum said:
CECH-25 didn't just introduce new HDD, there were very very minor internal changes, like lighter heatsink and different airduct/fans, these sort of things, there was a JP blog tearing it down, can't find the link, Kagari should know.
The changes were more about saving material (plastic, aluminum
) not massive savings like a die shrink. Last major revision was CECH-21 and shrinking RSX to 40nm, not 45nm.Opus Angelorum said:
I meant you were one of those who didn't believe 299$ could happen last year either
And you also said something along the line 'if Sony cuts to 299$ Microsoft will immediatly cut to 149$ the Arcade". So there's a trend here.Btw no sense to argue about pure speculation, just wanted to point out that it's not the first time you're negative about Sony's ability to cut the price when needed.
You think that PS3 won't be at 199$ next year, that's ok, on the contrary I'm pretty sure of it because it's necessary for them to achieve growth for themselves especially in software sales, because they have been already profitable for months, further hardware revisions will be made, because the technological trend for them is that they can shave off 100$ the price every two years and one way to lower costs is to make more units by cutting the price.
We'll see who's right next year =)
PS: The two revisions were the first in March with the 40nm RSX, the second is the one with the bigger hard drives (160GB/320GB) which has further cost cutting measures in them (not the manufacturing process of the main chips which is the same). The CFO said that they would cut costs with revisions twice in 2010.
Edit: See the post above mine for further details.
CrunchinJelly
formerly cjelly
We are pretty much past the stage of a single title selling a significant amount of systems for anyone. All the big franchises have released and I don't really remember any of them making a blip.Ashes1396 said:
We are now at the stage of 'sequels to games with lacklustre sales that you played two years ago.'
AndresON777
shooting blanks
sorry but can you guys make some walking dead gifs?
360 will not be the "most sold" in the US but becoming the "most in use" is a possibility. This wouldn't affect how much money Nintendo made by selling all these Wiis but it does affect how much money Microsoft makes by having people use 360 day in and day out.Ashes1396 said:
Making their console a constant revenue generator after the initial sale (and selling more console is just one part of the equation) is something that both Microsoft and Sony care a lot more about than Nintendo (or so it seems to me).
So yes, in "that sense", becoming a leader in US is a possibility.
cjelly said:
Yeah pretty much. I was just pointing out the possibillity.
On reflection, I guess the closest thing I 'personally' thought would make a dent console sales wise, was or in more present sense could have been little big planet, when it was talked about at E3. But that never materialised. It had a huge metacritic rating and all, but the word of mouth didn't blow that thing out the water. UC2 had good word of mouth, dominated end of year awards, but it's doesn't really separate it self from the rest, like a GTA, or LBP. LBP 2 is probably going to do only a little bit better then it's very original first entry.
goldenpp72
Member
clashfan said:
How about a ps3 that doesn't come with a controller?
speculawyer
Member
Pffft.Road said:
The xbox 360 got its ass kicked for years by the Wii in both the US and the UK. Now all of a sudden nationalism is the reason why it is doing well? :lol
ShockingAlberto
Member
Ripping off Kinect right now seems ill-advised.goldenpp72 said:
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
speculawyer said:
America itself has changed quite a bit. Maybe the 360 is enjoying a kind of Bristol Palin On Dancing With The Stars kind of revitalization.....
clashfan said:
Or maybe they could simply make an other full hardware revision with a new manufacturing process, cheap heatsinks, external power supply, super slim factor, simple Blu Ray optical drive mechanics(as in the PSX and PStwo) and price it at 199$ while still breaking even on it.
ShockingAlberto said:
Good luck with Microsoft owning most of all the patents
The next Kinect model won't be built from off the shelf parts and have improved software. Similar to how the first xbox was built from off the shelf parts and the 360 was built with customized parts.