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[BenjaminBirdie]

I love that they made money as a commodity worth buying. Props where it is due. Microsoft knows how to make money.

How is it anything other than people paying for XBL content, only in a store? It's not like they put the point cards up on their walls.

 

[Snuggles]

How is it anything other than people paying for XBL content, only in a store? It's not like they put the point cards up on their walls.

Yeah, and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that people like to pay cash for that content rather than having their electronic card tied to their XBL account. Plus, there's probably a lot of younger gamers out there who don't even use a credit or debit. All those little kids you play with online gotta get that shit somehow.

 

[manueldelalas]

LENIN AND McCARTNEY!!

I FINALLY UNDERSTOOD THE SHIPPED GIF!!

 

[verbum]

I think it will be harder for them in many ways. They will be facing a battle scarred Sony that has learned a life lesson or five. They're not up against an arrogant giant anymore but someone who has busted their asses on building up a unrivaled next-gen studio line up and fought every possible challenge this gen has come up with and regained ground inch by inch.

You should write that up as a screenplay.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Probably a good reason for why there are so many MS Points cards sold is that there still isn't a universal way to gift on XBLM. It's so stupid, but a 1600 card let's 'em pick their own purchases.

 

[Arnie]

I think it will be harder for them in many ways. They will be facing a battle scarred Sony that has learned a life lesson or five. They're not up against an arrogant giant anymore but someone who has busted their asses on building up a unrivaled next-gen studio line up and fought every possible challenge this gen has come up with and regained ground inch by inch.

Yes but the one area they have lagged behind seriously this generation is online, and Microsoft has and will continue to have them beat in that area going forward. Not to mention that this will be the first time for many people where there profile (Gamertag, PSN ID) carries over to their new console, so that could well be a dictating factor in console adoption.

 

[Ashes]

How is it anything other than people paying for XBL content, only in a store? It's not like they put the point cards up on their walls.

xbl points =/= real money? Don't they have MS points card at sale prices over in the US? I realise that you are right though...

 

[FrankT]

xbl points =/= real money? Don't they have MS points card at sale prices over in the US? I realise that you are right though...

Sale price on point cards anymore eh pretty darn rare.

 

[Man]

Yes but the one area they have lagged behind seriously this generation is online, and Microsoft has and will continue to have them beat in that area going forward. Not to mention that this will be the first time for many people where there profile (Gamertag, PSN ID) carries over to their new console, so that could well be a dictating factor in console adoption.

Microsoft have the more developed service but Sony has more games pushing for new online heights it seems. 256 players, free to play social MMO, Youtube uploading, large focus on dedicated servers, tons of support for community content. Halo is an online star but the rest of Microsofts game lineup is tempered in their online ambition. The only thing Sony needs to do next gen is to set some standards from launch and nick a couple of Steam exclusive features like Pre-loading and gifting.

 

[Ashes]

Microsoft have the more developed service but Sony has more games pushing for new online heights it seems. 256 players, free to play social MMO, Youtube uploading, large focus on dedicated servers, tons of support for community content. Halo is an online star but the rest of Microsofts game lineup is tempered in their online ambition. The only thing Sony needs to do next gen is to set some standards from launch and nick a couple of Steam exclusive features like Pre-loading and gifting.

What's valve got planned on the psn side of things btw? And I'd add gears, and forza to that star list. Not to mention Cod dominates proceedings.

Sale price on point cards anymore eh pretty darn rare.

Fair enough...

 

[NemesisPrime]

Microsoft have the more developed service but Sony has more games pushing for new online heights it seems. 256 players, free to play social MMO, Youtube uploading, large focus on dedicated servers, tons of support for community content. Halo is an online star but the rest of Microsofts game lineup is tempered in their online ambition. The only thing Sony needs to do next gen is to set some standards from launch and nick a couple of Steam exclusive features like Pre-loading and gifting.

Yeah... so easy.


NOT!


If it was that easy they would have done it already. Fact is Sony had no clue when they went into this. Next gen most of the Live people will stick to XBox because it is a place they know and like and becuase probably all their stuff will carry over. I would say that Sony is fighting a losing battle.

 

[Arnie]

Microsoft have the more developed service but Sony has more games pushing for new online heights it seems. 256 players, free to play social MMO, Youtube uploading, large focus on dedicated servers, tons of support for community content. Halo is an online star but the rest of Microsofts game lineup is tempered in their online ambition. The only thing Sony needs to do next gen is to set some standards from launch and nick a couple of Steam exclusive features like Pre-loading and gifting.

Yes I agree to an extent, but things like free to play MMO's and 256 player online games aren't going to grab the Call of Duty audience that they will need to reach that hardcore mass. Dedicated servers are a great start and show a clear dedication from Sony to try and get it right, but I think most important is how the whole online system is integrated into the console, starting with the horrendous XMB. It wouldn't surprise me if Sony stuck with the XMB next generation, and if they do, they are done.

The fact that on launch day in 2005 you could bring up the majority of your consoles functions whilst communicating with a friend playing a separate game and in 2010 Sony have yet to even match this is appalling. Not only this but Microsoft have furthered this feature whilst Sony still ignore it. This is the biggest deal to many, you only have to scratch the surface of Xbox Live to see how big a feature Party Chat is to the overall user base.

To be successful in the online space Sony need to completely gut and redesign their entire online interface and infrastructure. They need to at least get the social functions of the system up to a standard for consoles set in 2005, and preferably much beyond. Despite all their improvements and additions since launch, Sony have yet to "get it", the fact that people could play these games without a subscription cost yet they choose not to underlines the importance of ancillary social features other than just "256 Players" etc.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

And I'm saying it only takes one insane out of the blue shot to change the game. This industry changes so quick sometimes. For the hd consoles, we haven't had the definitive console mover of the generation, unless you count gears 1 perhaps. I don't see anything from next year's line up that can change the game up like that though, or in the next couple of years. No gta or anything of that calibre. We know historically that a single platform game, without bundling, can give us the stratospheric 17 million plus sales. What is that hd game? Wii games of course can do that and have done that, so why not a hd console?

Call of Duty is the definitive HD console mover. It is the GTA of this generation, and the single most important release for the PS3 or 360 on an annual basis. The only reason it doesn't push those numbers on a single platform is because it is day one multiplat.

It will take a new console cycle or a colossal Activision screwup for it to be unseated on either platform.

 

[ExtraKr1spy]

Looking at sales data for the last few months.

If Nintendo and MS were not in the console market then the PS3 and PSP would be leading in sales. By a lot. Wouldn't even really be close.

 

[Man]

And I'd add gears, and forza to that star list..

Gears is a badly executed and primitive online game. They haven't been able to properly tackle ten players even. Thank god they are adding dedicated servers with the third game.

 

[Ashes]

Call of Duty is the definitive HD console mover. It is the GTA of this generation, and the single most important release for the PS3 or 360 on an annual basis. The only reason it doesn't push those numbers on a single platform is because it is day one multiplat.

It will take a new console cycle or a colossal Activision screwup for it to be unseated on either platform.

But then it should be doing close to 30 million, not twenty million. I know it's the biggest hit etc etc by some margin. But a single game can do 17 + million, wii prooves this. And yeah it is the single most important release for the ps3 or 360 on a yearly basis. Even in Europe. We have fifa as well it seems. But COD is big big business. I just think there is that super massive title in there somewhere. But maybe you are right, Cross platform does split the hd audience somewhat...

edit: I don't know why I said 'maybe', you are right going by the figures.

 

[RedStep]

I think it will be harder for them in many ways. They will be facing a battle scarred Sony that has learned a life lesson or five. They're not up against an arrogant giant anymore but someone who has busted their asses on building up a unrivaled next-gen studio line up and fought every possible challenge this gen has come up with and regained ground inch by inch.

I think it will be easier, for one reason: Xbox Live. The whole "loyalty" concept didn't work out this gen, because nobody cared much about losing their single-player game saves. Now we have an entire console HD full of content that's been paid for but can't be sold. The bros have their CoD friends list, and the casuals have their Kinect.

If MS is smart, all these things will be enhanced and fully backwards-compatible with the next box. It will be more like the transition from an iPhone 3G to an iPhone 4, and we've seen how willing people are to do that. My Wii is the only console that I won't be able to bring last gen over from (if the others play their cards right).

Addition: As mentioned above, the ease of interaction with your XBL friends list has made that an essential part of the experience. Assuming that users can upgrade to the next box one by one while still being able to play/interact with their friends in 360 games, that will be huge.

 

[jrricky]

I post this again, it got buried on the previous page.

UPDATE

Source: Gameindustry.biz
Need For Speed Hot Pursuit 417,000
uDraw 190,000

YoY Software sales:
Actvision Blizzard +14%
EA -25%
Take-Two +2%
THQ +29%

EA is continually hurting? Good!! They have made the most terrible decisions this year, again!!

 

[szaromir]

But then it should be doing close to 30 million, not twenty million. I know it's the biggest hit etc etc by some margin. But a single game can do 17 + million, wii prooves this. And yeah it is the single most important release for the ps3 or 360 on a yearly basis. Even in Europe. We have fifa as well it seems. But COD is big big business. I just think there is that super massive title in there somewhere. But maybe you are right, Cross platform does split the hd audience somewhat...

edit: I don't know why I said 'maybe', you are right going by the figures.

Blops did 11M in the US+UK in November alone, by the time the next COD comes, it should totally annihilate any Nintendo exclusive.

 

[Nirolak]

EA is continually hurting? Good!! They have made the most terrible decisions this year, again!!

Well, last year they released Dragon Age, whereas this year they only had Need For Speed.

 

[Boney]

Blops did 11M in the US+UK in November alone, by the time the next COD comes, it should totally annihilate any Nintendo exclusive.

Or Blops could be the peak of the series. I think next year will be the peak though.

 

[Chris1964]

Blops did 11M in the US+UK in November alone, by the time the next COD comes, it should totally annihilate any Nintendo exclusive.

Good luck with that.

 

[szaromir]

Good luck with that.

You realize it's actual sellthrough? Add very strong mainland Europe sales, Christmas, strong legs and you can easily see 25M+ shipment. MW2 hit 20M back in May or June.

Or Blops could be the peak of the series. I think next year will be the peak though.

So it'll be fifth COD selling 15M+ in a row. Not bad at all.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

So it'll be fifth COD selling 15M+ in a row. Not bad at all.

Also, the fact that it wasn't an Infinity Ward title and still outperformed MW2 means Activision has nothing to worry about when it comes to an IW-less COD brand. As userbases for both consoles grow, I can only see future iterations rising until next generation starts.

 

[Chris1964]

You realize it's actual sellthrough? Add very strong mainland Europe sales, Christmas, strong legs and you can easily see 25M+ shipment. MW2 hit 20M back in May or June.

You take strong legs as a given but even 25m+ are far from totally annihilating any Nintendo exclusive.

 

[Jokeropia]

25 million is not enough to beat the biggest Nintendo games, let alone "totally annihilate" them.

I recognised that and pointed out the similiarity to Nintendo's own total Revenue. I only chose Nintendo first because they are the only 'Game' only company. Their revenue which should be a share of the total platform revenue of the wii, doesn't seem to match up. Even if we say that Nintendo generated half of their 15 Billion dollors revenue on the wii, for ease of argument, say 7 and 1/2 Billion, that leaves a gaping 7 1/2 billion revenue not coming from them on the wii. I don't think Nintendo generates only half of total wii revenue; isn't it like a 90/10 split in software, first party versus third party software on the wii? (some one will find that table I'm sure).

It's actually ~60/40 third party over first party. Only in Japan is Nintendo's share bigger than the third parties

 

[szaromir]

You take strong legs as a given but even 25m+ are far from totally annihilating any Nintendo exclusive.

That was a bit hyperbolic on my part. I think the best selling Nintendo exclusives this gen are approaching 25M? Yes, I take strong sales as a given, previous CODs were continuously in top 10 in the US and pretty much every PAL market until the following COD was released, why now would be different? Please explain.

 

[Mr_Brit]

You take strong legs as a given but even 25m+ are far from totally annihilating any Nintendo exclusive.

For 25million COD sales Nintendo would have to sell at least 35million to get near the same amount of profit. The average selling price of Nintendo games is vastly lower than the average selling price of a COD game. This is doubly so when you sell 15million of your 20+million copies at $60.

What I'm trying to say is that selling price is just as important and number of sales as proven by Mirror's Edge which sold 2million copies and still didn't make a profit.

 

[Boney]

Also, the fact that it wasn't an Infinity Ward title and still outperformed MW2 means Activision has nothing to worry about when it comes to an IW-less COD brand. As userbases for both consoles grow, I can only see future iterations rising until next generation starts.

Guitar Hero 3 was the highest selling one in that series.

For 25million COD sales Nintendo would have to sell at least 35million to get near the same amount of profit. The average selling price of Nintendo games is vastly lower than the average selling price of a COD game. This is doubly so when you sell 15million of your 20+million copies at $60.

I thought it was only a 20% price difference. Why 40% between the sales then?

 

[Hammer24]

Wait, are you telling me MS 1st party sold more than Sony´s?

 

[szaromir]

Guitar Hero 3 was the highest selling one in that series.

Well, COD is the older franchise and on top of that it has had yearly releases since the very beginning. Activision doesn't need to worry about that sort of decline.

I thought it was only a 20% price difference. Why 40% between the sales then?

Premium SKUs?

 

[Chris1964]

That was a bit hyperbolic on my part. I think the best selling Nintendo exclusives this gen are approaching 25M? Yes, I take strong sales as a given, previous CODs were continuously in top 10 in the US and pretty much every PAL market until the following COD was released, why now would be different? Please explain.

Nintendo exclusives that are at 25m now won't stop selling. LTD will be well over 30m.
If you watch pal charts you'll see that BO doesn't show the legs of MW2. We'll see what it will do in US in December (and the argument isn't about generating profit).

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Guitar Hero 3 was the highest selling one in that series.

Was there ever a point when the highest selling music game at its height sold as much as the highest selling FPS game at its height? I'm not sure the genres are comparable.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

did the PS3 slim cause a similar type of inflection last year?

and if so, how long did it last?

There you go:

Also, somebody asked for an updated 2010 chart:

 

[Jokeropia]

For 25million COD sales Nintendo would have to sell at least 35million to get near the same amount of profit. The average selling price of Nintendo games is vastly lower than the average selling price of a COD game. This is doubly so when you sell 15million of your 20+million copies at $60.

You want to compare profits, Activision vs. Nintendo?

FYI, Nintendo games virtually never get official pricedrops.

Wait, are you telling me MS 1st party sold more than Sony´s?

I don't see what's surprising about that.

 

[Hammer24]

I don't see what's surprising about that.

Doesn´t Sony have way more 1st party studios, getting out way more games than MS?

 

[szaromir]

Nintendo exclusives that are at 25m now won't stop selling. LTD will be well over 30m.
If you watch pal charts you'll see that BO doesn't show the legs of MW2. We'll see what it will do in US in December (and the argument isn't about generating profit).

I was never talking about profit (although revenues would be the correct term here). Too bad Activision doesn't give updates about their older titles, eg. how many copies of COD4 they shipped eventually. It was 14M in June 2008, knowing how much it sold since then would be very telling.

We're not talking about revenues, but units sold isn't the best measure of popularity either. HD twins "enjoy" much stronger used sales market.

Was there ever a point when the highest selling music game at its height sold as much as the highest selling FPS game at its height? I'm not sure the genres are comparable.

Yes, there was, at one point COD4 was the best selling FPS ever and GH3 was bigger than that.

 

[Boney]

Was there ever a point when the highest selling music game at its height sold as much as the highest selling FPS game at its height? I'm not sure the genres are comparable.

I'm saying the brand will deflate as such, but that Blops is riding the popularity of MW2.

 

[manueldelalas]

Doesn´t Sony have way more 1st party studios, getting out way more games than MS?

1st party games are games (generally exclusives) published by the company. Gears of War is a 1st party game.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Yes, there was, at one point COD4 was the best selling FPS ever and GH3 was bigger than that.

Dang. It FPSes drop like music games have...

Yikes, that is some grim industry prognosticating.

 

[szaromir]

I'm saying the brand will deflate as such, but that Blops is riding the popularity of MW2.

MW2 already saw huge backlash among the core community and was told to ride on the popularity of MW1 (so was WAW), I don't think that's really the case.

Please note that the last COD I played was COD4, never touched the series since then so I'm only commenting on the general reception.

 

[Hammer24]

1st party games are games (generally exclusives) published by the company. Gears of War is a 1st party game.

Yeah, I know. I just wasn´t aware that basically the Halo´s and Gears´ are enough to counter the many new IP´s and proven big franchises Sony brought to the table.

 

[Chris1964]

Doesn´t Sony have way more 1st party studios, getting out way more games than MS?

If more games meant more sales Bandai Namco would be the top publisher in the world.

 

[szaromir]

Dang. It FPSes drop like music games have...

Yikes, that is some grim industry prognosticating.

No worries here, FPSes are very popular since Doom days.

 

[Man]

Most stable genre out there.

 

[Hammer24]

If more games meant more sales Bandai Namco would be the top publisher in the world.

I think its fair to assume that Sony owns a couple more proven/big franchises than BN.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Yeah, I know. I just wasn´t aware that basically the Halo´s and Gears´ are enough to counter the many new IP´s and proven big franchises Sony brought to the table.

I agree with you. That's pretty surprising actually. No wonder MS doesn't seem to be too interested in first party stuff.

 

[szaromir]

I think its fair to assume that Sony owns a couple more proven/big franchises than BN.

Worldwide numbers here, but MS shipped 20M Halo games this generation (until E3 2010), 11M Gears (until E3 2009) and shipped/sold 3.5M units of Fable 2 within a year (not sure exactly). They have some big sellers.

 

[Megadragon15]

There you go:

Also, somebody asked for an updated 2010 chart:

These 2 graphs puts the PS3 price cut and Slim vs the 360 Slim (and Kinect) into perspective. The only thing Sony did was gain slightly less than parity with the 360. The 360 Slim (and Kinect) was a real game changer as of today.

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Yeah, I know. I just wasn´t aware that basically the Halo´s and Gears´ are enough to counter the many new IP´s and proven big franchises Sony brought to the table.

They are not, that's why there are also Crackdowns, Fables, Forzas and other "new IPs and proven big franchises" to round out the deal.

These 2 graphs puts the PS3 and Slim vs the 360 Slim (and Kinect) into perspective. The only thing Sony did was gain slightly less than parity with the 360. The 360 Slim (and Kinect) was a real game changer as of today.

To be fair, Wii was holding up much better last year so that might skew perception a little.