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[BenjaminBirdie]

-Enter the Matrix
-50 Cent: Bulletproof
-Any number of successful Wii minigame collections

Also, not to be a downer here, but who has said the Kinect is selling because it's good? Anyone?

I find it hard to believe that it's not being helped by positive word of mouth, which is prevalent.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I think it's because they keeping on adding more features and thus 'value' to the machine at the same price point (which very likely makes more financial sense). If PS3 sales doesn't pick up, we may just see more features added and a modest price drop across the 360 line.

I guess this is true, since the 360 is having features added at the same price and the PS3 has features dropped when a price cut comes.

 

[PSGames]

-Enter the Matrix
-50 Cent: Bulletproof
-Any number of successful Wii minigame collections

Also, not to be a downer here, but who has said the Kinect is selling because it's good? Anyone?

Go check the OT.

 

[Speevy]

Well I'm one of those people who literally can't play it because of a lack of space, so I've stayed out of threads discussing it beyond the pre-launch buzz.

I believe you, though. So people are saying the Kinect is a quality product?

 

[see5harp]

I know a few people who have bought it and definitely changed their tune once they were able to play with family. I will jump in once I see software support outside of the launch window. It's hard to jump in with a peripheral coming so late in the generation with all of the shit I've been burned on before with Nintendo products. I'm alright with $50 for a single move controller, but $150 is a little out of my range.

 

[mm04]

Go check the OT.

The statement you've quoted is the most ridiculous thing I've read so far about this apparent Kinect jedi mind trick thing. The overwhelming sentiment among those who've actually used the device is positive and quite frankly, surprise that it works as well as it does.

Of course there are some who don't like it or it doesn't work to their satisfaction, but is MS somehow orchestrating some massive cover-up of all of this dissent, since apparently nobody thinks it's a good product? C'mon now, that's asinine.

 

[captmcblack]

See, that's the "no fair!" comment I was talking about. You sound like it bothers you that they spent all this money.

As I said, if you spend a ton of money on marketing and people buy it solely because of that, you'll get good initial sales, but word of mouth/reviews will indicate future sales very quickly (as in a matter of weeks). That isn't the case with Kinect. It got a good wave of initial sales, and it *continues* to sell well not just because of marketing, but also because word of mouth is increasing its presence.

We already know it doesn't suck, but even if it did, we'd be hearing by now all kinds of anecdotes about lots of returns, stock piling up on shelves, bad reviews, negative press, etc... That's not happening.

So, good product + major marketing = major success.

Where would we hear all the anecdotes and press about returns? On all of the media that is running Kinect ads and having Kinect specials and articles? I don't think so; the thing would have to be physically faulty - like Toyota cars last year - and then that faultiness would have to snowball in order for that kind of reporting to overturn the ad money. There isn't crazy dissent or hatred of the device, so why would we hear anything...and even if there was a little dissent, how would it get through enough to slow sales down?

When would you hear all these anecdotes? During the holiday season when it is on deep discount in bundles and all over every retailer as hot item at full price? Like I said, unless it's absolute dogshit (which we know it's not), it's not going to matter right now. People want it, they're being told everywhere to want it, they're buying it.

It doesn't bother me at all that they spent the money; I mean, I'm not a shareholder or anything, so what do I care? I'm not going to pretend that it isn't fact that there is a clear sales and marketing strategy in play, and that it is absolutely working well. I am going to wait to see what is happening in February or March or something, because by then the Kinect won't be new, it will have sold in a holiday season/big sales time, and will need to be supported by software instead of by advertising and word of mouth/novelty to prove its long-term worth. From that point, that's where I will look to form an opinion about it. I don't see how that's some sort of crazy stance to take or something...that's how we all chose to observe the Wii and DS, right?

 

[Speevy]

The statement you've quoted is the most ridiculous thing I've read so far about this apparent Kinect jedi mind trick thing. .

I was posting about the fact that poor products do sell, not necessarily about the Kinect. I'm surprised it's receiving positive reviews after so many months of negativity.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Well I'm one of those people who literally can't play it because of a lack of space, so I've stayed out of threads discussing it beyond the pre-launch buzz.

I believe you, though. So people are saying the Kinect is a quality product?

Aside from a few people in the OT who had irreconcilable space issues, pretty much every post in it is like "I thought it was going to be shit, but it's actually pretty rad!"

 

[plagiarize]

Aside from a few people in the OT who had irreconcilable space issues, pretty much every post in it is like "I thought it was going to be shit, but it's actually pretty rad!"

which is also consistant with the hands on impressions of the majority of people that tried it prior to launch.

as for 'Enter The Matrix'? that was an average game (scored about 7/10 across the board if i remember right) that you needed to play to get the 'whole story' for the Matrix films with it's specially shot scenes with the real cast and all that.

i don't think you need to go with this jedi mind trick explanation to explain why it sold so much (at the height of Matrix popularity no less).

 

[TheKingsCrown]

which is also consistant with the hands on impressions of the majority of people that tried it prior to launch.
as for 'Enter The Matrix'? that was an average game (scored about 7/10 across the board if i remember right) that you needed to play to get the 'whole story' for the Matrix films with it's specially shot scenes with the real cast and all that.

i don't think you need to go with this jedi mind trick explanation to explain why it sold so much (at the height of Matrix popularity no less).

Not really. There have been a flurry of impressions saying the lag is problematic.

Please stop trying to reset the past.

 

[mm04]

I was posting about the fact that poor products do sell, not necessarily about the Kinect. I'm surprised it's receiving positive reviews after so many months of negativity.

Point taken. And I'd ask where this negativity came from? From this board where just about nobody ever got a chance to try the thing to form a valid opinion in the first place? This board, where the hardest of the hardcore gamers reside? Or the hardcore gaming press?

I had zero inclination to buy one of these things. Then my nephews and niece got one and I tried it. That experience changed all of my previous perceptions. Would I have purchased it if I didn't already own a 360? Probably not, but from the fun I had with it, it convinced me to buy it as accessory for my 360. A complimentary item, not the sole reason to own the console.

 

[Cheech]

Not really. There have been a flurry of impressions saying the lag is problematic.

Please stop trying to reset the past.

He's not. The vast majority of posts in the OT don't have issues with "lag", myself included.

It is a fantastic gaming device, and loads of fun with family/friends. It is going to be the focus of many family Christmas festivities this month, and will have a snowball effect of selling more units.

The only place I've heard bitching about the device is GAF. Like the Wii, it will take years to admit Kinect was a success.

 

[plagiarize]

Not really. There have been a flurry of impressions saying the lag is problematic.

Please stop trying to reset the past.

for every hands-on negative impression you find, i will find two positive ones. deal?

trust me, i'm not trying to reset the past. i've been commenting on kinect hands-on impression threads long before it came out and long before i got to try it myself. i was predicting that when people tried it that they'd actually have positive impressions because that's what seemed to be happening at press events and public preview events.

i also remember people posting videos of kinect and people on gaf going 'OMG LOOK AT THE LAG THAT IS UNPLAYABLE' while the person who was actually playing the game in the video had good things to say about it.

there was plenty of negativity pre launch. the negativity didn't come from hands-on sessions.

 

[PSGames]

Not really. There have been a flurry of impressions saying the lag is problematic.

Please stop trying to reset the past.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCytwkclG6M

I just recorded this yesterday. Please show me problematic lag?

 

[goldenpp72]

Not really. There have been a flurry of impressions saying the lag is problematic.

Please stop trying to reset the past.

Bullshit, i've read the thread and while some might mention the lag, most of the thread is outright praise, kinect is an awesome device and yes, even has some cool launch games!

Amazing what you find when you actually open up a bit. I'm glad kinect is selling well, but i'm disappointed in the sales of the software so far.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

Not really. There have been a flurry of impressions saying the lag is problematic.

Please stop trying to reset the past.

Yep, you're right. A flurry. I mean, just look at them all

 

[Zoe]

If someone is not a big fan or is not interested in the tech, they're not going to be hanging out and posting impressions in the OT thread.

I think impressions after the honeymoon period has ended would be the most telling.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

If someone is not a big fan or is not interested in the tech, they're not going to be hanging out and posting impressions in the OT thread.

I think impressions after the honeymoon period has ended would be the most telling.

You really think if someone paid $150 and it sucked they wouldn't run to GAF to say so?

Really?

 

[plagiarize]

You really think if someone paid $150 and it sucked they wouldn't run to GAF to say so?

Really?

now now Benjamin, i'm sure Zoe holds every other positive OT thread to the same standard.

 

[PistolGrip]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCytwkclG6M

I just recorded this yesterday. Please show me problematic lag?

just started watching and there is major lag when hands move up on selection. I didnt see lag in boby movements though but that seems easier to capture.

when I tried out kinect i did lag behind my movements especially when I got into the table tennis game. Some of my fast movements wouldn't register.

Its definitely cool though I think its impressive especially to casuals. Im sure MS is losing money on this thing because it seems like it should cost more.

You really think if someone paid $150 and it sucked they wouldn't run to GAF to say so?

Really?

People who criticized the Wii for accuracy were viciously attacked when it came out. Its hard to get a good opinion for an item when its first release especially if it has a pretty big army of folks willing to defend it to no end. You can see the same in the MOVE OT. Any criticism of the Wii/Kinect/Move is shoved aside with "u didnt set up it up right" and then attacked. Why would someone who doesnt like the product which is hard to get go in GAF to talk about a very negative experience without just wanting to troll. Give it a few months

 

[OscarMalory]

The Kinect honeymoon ends right when the Year of the Playstation starts?

 

[plagiarize]

just started watching and there is major lag when hands move up on selection. I didnt see lag moby movements though but that seems easier to capture.

when I tried out kinect i did lag behind my movements especially when I got into the table tennis game. Some of my fast movements wouldnt register.

Its definitely cool though I think its impressive especially to casuals.

which bits were problematic though?

look, again there is no debating that there is lag (as there is no debating that Killzone 2 launched with major control lag).

just as many people enjoyed Killzone 2 despite it launching with some of the laggiest controls we've seen in an FPS this generation, many enjoy Kinect. same for GTA4.

now does the extra 0.075 seconds of lag push kinect out of a tollerable range for some people? of course it does. but we're still talking a minority.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The Kinect honeymoon ends right when the Year of the Playstation starts?

I'm guessing it will forever be "next month".

;D

 

[nexen]

If someone is not a big fan or is not interested in the tech, they're not going to be hanging out and posting impressions in the OT thread.

I think impressions after the honeymoon period has ended would be the most telling.

The honeymoon period for Tony Hawk's Ride was pretty short.

 

[PSGames]

just started watching and there is major lag when hands move up on selection. I didnt see lag moby movements though but that seems easier to capture.

The cursor in Kinect Sports can be improved (it's much more responsive in the dashboard).

But the full body tracking like you said is pretty responsive. Playing that I didn't feel any lag at all. And it's no where near the issue people try to make it out to be here.

 

[Vinci]

FFS, very few people are suggesting that Kinect is going to succeed based merely on the advertising alone. Anyone worth talking to on the subject is not going to argue that. What they're arguing is that Kinect is in its honeymoon period right now, and it's far too early to suggest that it's a hit or will be a hit anywhere close to the massive phenomenon the Wii became. Selling excellent numbers during the holiday period with a decent enough product, with strong advertising, and some creative energy? That's not impressive. What's impressive is selling at borderline holiday numbers every month of the year for over two years. That's impressive. Will Kinect do that? I doubt it, unless it gets remarkably impressive software over the next several months.

 

[2real4tv]

PS3 needs a redesign because it went from the best looking to the worst looking device. Also as someone stated them removing features doesn't do it no favors o....I cringe everytime I see my nice black shiny BC ps3 sitting in the corner broken.

 

[see5harp]

The cursor in Kinect Sports can be improved (it's much more responsive in the dashboard).

But the full body tracking like you said is pretty responsive. Playing that I didn't feel any lag at all. And it's no where near the issue people try to make it out to be here.

Dude you got a big ass fucking screen.

 

[Vinci]

PS3 needs a redesign because it went from the best looking to the worst looking device. Also as someone stated them removing features doesn't do it no favors o....I cringe everytime I see my nice black shiny BC ps3 sitting in the corner broken.

PS3 doesn't need to do anything but sit pretty and die. It'll coast along a while, but nothing is going to pull it out of its current situation. A redesign would just cost money.

What it needs is a PS4. A really clever one.

 

[SeaOfMadness]

The cursor in Kinect Sports can be improved (it's much more responsive in the dashboard).

But the full body tracking like you said is pretty responsive. Playing that I didn't feel any lag at all. And it's no where near the issue people try to make it out to be here.

I don't care what you felt! I clearly saw lag! wait .. what? ;-)

 

[antiquegamer]

FFS, very few people are suggesting that Kinect is going to succeed based merely on the advertising alone. Anyone worth talking to on the subject is not going to argue that. What they're arguing is that Kinect is in its honeymoon period right now, and it's far too early to suggest that it's a hit or will be a hit anywhere close to the massive phenomenon the Wii became. Selling excellent numbers during the holiday period with a decent enough product, with strong advertising, and some creative energy? That's not impressive. What's impressive is selling at borderline holiday numbers every month of the year for over two years. That's impressive. Will Kinect do that? I doubt it, unless it gets remarkably impressive software over the next several months.

I like how goalpost get move further when it comes to MS, lol now selling 5 million during it first holiday is unremakable? If I recall many Gaf were predicting clearance sale for kinect after new year. I am sure Kinect will sell well after the holiday when people visit friends and family during Xmas new year and see how fun it is.

Also by your standard move and ps3 must be an utter failure this year.

 

[charlequin]

What they're arguing is that Kinect is in its honeymoon period right now, and it's far too early to suggest that it's a hit or will be a hit anywhere close to the massive phenomenon the Wii became.

You... do realize that this is just the ca. 2007 "Wii is a fad" argument dressed up in nice clothes, right?

 

[plagiarize]

FFS, very few people are suggesting that Kinect is going to succeed based merely on the advertising alone. Anyone worth talking to on the subject is not going to argue that. What they're arguing is that Kinect is in its honeymoon period right now, and it's far too early to suggest that it's a hit or will be a hit anywhere close to the massive phenomenon the Wii became. Selling excellent numbers during the holiday period with a decent enough product, with strong advertising, and some creative energy? That's not impressive. What's impressive is selling at borderline holiday numbers every month of the year for over two years. That's impressive. Will Kinect do that? I doubt it, unless it gets remarkably impressive software over the next several months.

people ARE suggesting that Kinect isn't getting positive word of mouth when we can plainly see that it is getting positive word of mouth.

it is a hit right now. will it continue to be a hit? i don't think anyone arguing against the daft notion that people don't really like it, or will get bored of it in a week (is that up to a month yet?) are saying it's going to sell as well as the best selling console ever.

right now it's a hit. right now it's selling well.

one of the reasons kinect is selling so well right now is because it's new and exciting. obviously the 'newness' will fade in time, but so what?

right now it's new and exciting and selling well. not because of advertising. not because it's in it's honeymoon period. because it's new and exciting.

if you want to set the standards for success up to 'WII LEVELS OF SUCCESS OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME' then you better be consistant with that.

2.5 million worldwide in a couple of weeks... we know it's still selling two weeks later... why does it need to keep selling for that to be impressive?

i'm sure the time will come when it stops selling and everyone who couldn't wait to laugh at Kinect sales finally gets to have a chuckle. i don't think anyone will be laughing before mid february though.

and even that will be too soon to write Kinect off. many consoles have bounced back from pretty painful post launch sales figures.

Kinect has been very successfully launched. it is viewed positively by consumers. it is in great demand as i type.

it may all end. the anti motion control gang may be right next time, but they're not doing so well in their predictions to date.

 

[plagiarize]

You... do realize that this is just the ca. 2007 "Wii is a fad" argument dressed up in nice clothes, right?

i hate when i write a nice long detailed explanation of something and someone beats me to the point with an easy to understand and succinct analogy.

 

[Vinci]

I like how goalpost get move further when it comes to MS, lol now selling 5 million during it first holiday is unremakable? If I recall many Gaf were predicting clearance sale for kinect after new year. I am sure Kinect will sell well after the holiday when people visit friends and family during Xmas new year and see how fun it is.

Also by your standard move and ps3 must be an utter failure this year.

I have never moved my goalposts on Kinect. Look through my post history if you like, but I have always argued that Kinect would sell enormously well at first - but would taper off over time due to a lack of strong software. Given the conditions of its launch, no, I don't think it's remarkable how well it's sold at this time. Things sell well during the holidays. Things with a shit-load of hype sell enormously well. What's impressive, again, is when something sells enormously well all year long 'cause that's a rare occurrence.

I am not GAF. Quit lumping everyone into some gigantic blob.

You... do realize that this is just the ca. 2007 "Wii is a fad" argument dressed up in nice clothes, right?

Things sell enormously well over time based on software, not on hardware. The Wii had some of the best-selling games of all time coming out in its first 18 months. Does Kinect? I have no idea, maybe. If it does, that's awesome - it'll be fun to watch.

 

[Moobabe]

PS3 doesn't need to do anything but sit pretty and die. It'll coast along a while, but nothing is going to pull it out of its current situation. A redesign would just cost money.

What it needs is a PS4. A really clever one.

What's the current situation? NPD sales? WW sales?

 

[Zoe]

right now it's new and exciting and selling well. not because of advertising. not because it's in it's honeymoon period. because it's new and exciting.

To me, that's the very definition of "honeymoon period."

 

[captmcblack]

You... do realize that this is just the ca. 2007 "Wii is a fad" argument dressed up in nice clothes, right?

But people did in fact make that argument back then and were allowed to do so. And if the Wii did tail off, the people that made that argument would've been right. Shit, even 4-some odd years later after the gen is old and the Wii finally is only moving good numbers and not universe-melting ones, people want to claim that they were right to say definitively that "Wii is a fad".

So why is it wrong to say "Kinect's got lots of buzz right now - let's wait and see if it can sustain that buzz after it is older with software"? That's not wrong, is it? Nintendo had to silence doubters with killer software. MS should have to as well.

 

[Vinci]

What's the current situation? NPD sales? WW sales?

He seemed to feel it needed something, like a redesign, for one reason or another. I responded to that by saying a redesign would be a waste of money, because the system isn't changing.

 

[plagiarize]

To me, that's the very definition of "honeymoon period."

let me try another approach:

why is Kinect new and exciting compared to competiting things?

Spoiler

it isn't because it just came out last month.

 

[Chrange]

I wonder if the people so eager to see Kinect sales slow down so they can declare its demise were urging Sony to kill the PS3 in 2007 when it was being outsold 3:1 by the competition...including the PS2. :lol

 

[plagiarize]

So why is it wrong to say "Kinect's got lots of buzz right now - let's wait and see if it can sustain that buzz after it is older with software"? That's not wrong, is it? Nintendo had to silence doubters with killer software. MS should have to as well.

why do we have to wait and see what happens next? why can't we just commend MS on a great launch?

the 360 just had it's best month ever. in November. i'm pretty sure it's going to do even better this month.

then we go into an expected dip. sales of everything are going to go right down. look how well the Wii sold last month compared to how it sold the few months before? why shouldn't we expect to see a similar pattern from a device that appeals to a similar audience?

so we should realistically expect very strong winters and not so strong rest of years, based on the way the Wii trends.

so what, we have to wait a year before we can say anything positive about it's sales?

it just had the most successful launch of any peripheral ever... but i guess it's way too soon to say anything because i guess everyone expected it to do that, and because everyone expected it to do that it isn't notable or worth commending in any way shape or form.

 

[Vinci]

I wonder if the people so eager to see Kinect sales slow down so they can declare its demise were urging Sony to kill the PS3 in 2007 when it was being outsold 3:1 by the competition...including the PS2. :lol

If you're referring to me, I am not eager to see Kinect do anything. Is suggesting that everyone wait to pass judgement on the thing's level of success for six months - as I've stated before elsewhere many times - really such a horrible thing?

EDIT @ plagiarize: I have, at least twice in the last week, said that MS had a really good launch and had done a great job. Given how little I've posted on the Gaming Side in that time, I'd say that's enough.

 

[NavNucST3]

The Kinect honeymoon ends right when the Year of the Playstation starts?

Did you get yours yet along with the additional game we talked about?

 

[plagiarize]

If you're referring to me, I am not eager to see Kinect do anything. Is suggesting that everyone wait to pass judgement on the thing's level of success for six months - as I've stated before elsewhere many times - really such a horrible thing?

yes. because nothing in history suggests that Jan through Apr are a reliable metric for seeing how hardware will do going forwards, whether you want to talk about the Wii's unusual supply constrained first winter/spring or whether you want to talk about the PS3 gathering dust on shelves for it's first Jan through Apr.

 

[2real4tv]

PS3 doesn't need to do anything but sit pretty and die. It'll coast along a while, but nothing is going to pull it out of its current situation. A redesign would just cost money.

What it needs is a PS4. A really clever one.

Sit back and die? PS3 is an excellent system not seeing the rationale here. Kinect is a nice piece of tech, but right now it just seems like a fad until I see software that appeals to me.

 

[Vinci]

yes. because nothing in history suggests that Jan through Apr are a reliable metric for seeing how hardware will do going forwards.

The Wii - which everyone seems keen to compare Kinect equally with - sold well in every single month for over two years. I've even agreed with you and others that Kinect is a success. Anyone that can count can see that. What's going to be interesting is seeing how big of a success it becomes, and I'm saying it's a bit early in its life to claim Wii levels.

Sit back and die? PS3 is an excellent system not seeing the rationale here. Kinect is a nice piece of tech, but right now it just seems like a fad until I see software that appeals to me.

So it's a fad until it appeals to you?

As for the PS3: Sony has done everything in its power to make that system successful. Doing anything dramatic any further would just be a waste of money they can't really afford to spend. Continue bringing games out, make what money they can on the thing, but no, they should not do anything really expensive at this point to try and change the layout of this generation.

They just need to make money.

 

[Zoe]

let me try another approach:

why is Kinect new and exciting compared to competiting things?

Because the Eyetoy was ahead of its time.

 

[plagiarize]

The Wii - which everyone seems keen to compare Kinect equally with - sold well in every single month for over two years. I've even agreed with you and others that Kinect is a success. Anyone that can count can see that. What's going to be interesting is seeing how big of a success it becomes, and I'm saying it's a bit early in its life to claim Wii levels.

nobody is claiming wii levels though.

nobody was predicting that the wii would remain supply constrained for another year and a half after the first six months. all you can say about demand if Kinect were to stay supply constrained (which is highly unlikely) is that it's above supply. it could be falling in popularity. it could raising in popularity. there'd be no tracking the trend.

and then you have all the other consoles that weren't supply constrained for the first six months. allign the launches for PS3 and 360 and tell me where in those figures you can see a trend that predicts what happens after the first six months.

compare PS3 and GC.
compare Xbox and Xbox 360.

Jan through Apr in a consoles first year have no real bearing on anything.