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[Sho_Nuff82]

I seriously don't understand the Sony doom and gloom in here. . .the surprise would have been if they STILL managed to outsell the XB1 at the reduced price point and insane bundle deals.

I literally can not imagine anyone at Sony saying anything but "No price but and mediocre bundles and we killed it boys."

Read the first 20 pages, then compare the reactions.

 

[Syrus]

This thread was gold

 

[Bsigg12]

Could someone post them?

No clue what page it's on.

Pages 47 and 53

 

[GamerJM]

Could someone post them?

No clue what page it's on.

 

[Faustek]

Vita means life.

Oh trust me, I'm doing my best to keep the Vita alive. Heck every damn kid in my family or really close friends kids has gotten one from me. I even threatened friends to get it(actually not really but close). I have more retail games than I should have since I own many of them digitally as well. 2x64+32GB filled up.....I fucking love my vita.

Its the Smokydave effect! He should be crowned as official Vita is Life ambassador.

.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Can we take away that the console market seems healthy?

Seems and is are two different things.

 

[Amir0x]

Can we take away that the console market seems healthy?

I mean it's doing pretty decently, I don't know how super great it is

 

[Beefy]

Eh, MS already committed billions into multiple new internal studios for X1. Problem is that it takes years, maybe an average of three for a next-gen game. If you just started a new studio, it will probably take an additional year or so on top to get them set up before the main game project itself can be decided upon and in full production. In the meantime, they need to cover for their gaps in their lineup, so they make deals the same as anyone, like Ninty or Sony does.


Right. I expect E3 will be the first of many big years of announced output for all three first parties and when third parties are finally in high gear.

Well at least they are doing it now. Hopefully the studios work out and we see a ND like studio for MS.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

Not with their development cycle, they won't.

I think the most under-appreciated thing about ND is that they're not only a highly talented studio, they're arguably one of the most efficient studios out there.

A consistent 2-year dev cycle, and practically no history of any delays. (except TLoU's slight delay, which was a first-time ever)

They have two core teams so technically a 3-4'ywar cycle for each main game now but you are correct. IMO the naughty gods are the best talented and most effecient studio out there.

 

[Apt101]

I wonder if it would even make business sense for Sony to trim their margins and counter with some impressive deal, now, in the weeks prior to Christmas. Is it too late for Sony to put something like that together for the holidays? I suppose they could always just offer a game via PSN, or PSN credit, with new subscriptions for new consoles.

 

[shinra-bansho]

I hate to say it... but PS3 comes to mind. (Not saying PS3 was unappealing, but I also don't think the Xone is unappealing. Consumer response to the PS3 was iffy once the stock shortages were settled because of the high price point. Not a perfect comparable, but once the PS3 dropped the price things got better). Unless you're not talking about the Xone, in which case I take it all back.

Oh I wasn't really referring to the XBO; I don't think the core product particularly the reconfigured SKUs were necessarily unappealing to the target markets. The issue there was more pricing for profit/minimal loss, rather than pricing towards value and against competition correctly.

I was referring more to the notion of dramatically lowering the price of things like the Wii U or the Vita, where I have a feeling that a price drop -even a large one- would result in more of a transient improvement rather than a sustained one. More so the Vita though, since I do think the markets with which Nintendo have strength are probably more price sensitive - but it would still kind of lack the undaunting accessibility that the Wii had.

 

[Amir0x]

Apparently competition wasn't that good. Y2Kev's post and the PS2 era was the clear proof.

I bought my brother an Xbone, extra controller, AC Unity, AC Black Flag, and GTA 5 for $390.

If Sony reacts to this big NPD loss, I'll be picking up a PS4 for Christmas.

I love me some competition. Some people just like it was when their favorite platform is dominating.

There has always been competition, whether Sony is massively leading or Microsoft was massively leading or they were neck to neck in sales.

These are all possible outcomes of competition. Last year there was intense competition; Wii U was also competition.

 

[Wyndstryker]

Can we take away that the console market seems healthy?

Market doesn't mean healthy when actual sales are lower than last year. Sure it was a launch year but we need to see next year to get a better picture.

 

[GHG]

So what are the rough estimates at the moment?

Well done to MS. Always said this time of year comes down to price and which 3rd party games companies partner with. The lack of exclusives at the top of the software sales proves that to be true.

 

[XxRampage07xX]

Can we take away that the console market seems healthy?

Well, I am glad that they are doing pretty great.

 

[orochi91]

Read the first 20 pages, then compare the reactions.

We were played like a fiddle.

By CBOAT of all people.

D:

 

[SwiftDeath]

Sidetracking, but PS4 sales.

us npd aug 10: ~3.8m
worldwide sony aug 10: ~10m

us npd nov 29: ~5.63m

Assuming the same ratio (38%), worldwide would be 14.7 million. Assuming November is stronger due to Black Friday in the US, increasing the ratio (40%), the 14.1 million number Sony showed on PSX could indeed be their worldwide sellthrough sales until Nov. 29/30.

I was going to run the same estimate but piecemeal, only estimating WW sales after August 10th but it comes to about the same 14.7M or so WW

 

[MastaKilla]

Fine then Cosmic(reliable insider) said that CBOAT was wrong and Cream(reliable insider) showed pie charts of how much each console sold in Nov and the LFD pie charts. MS also said they did 1.2 mil in U.S. and some math showed that it was impossible for Sony to have sold 10k less than MS based off Overall hardware sales are down 23% year over year or something.

woahhh damn what the hell was CBOAT talking about then lol. thanks thouh.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

So what are the rough estimates at the moment?

Well done to MS. Always said this time of year comes down to price and which 3rd party games companies partner with. The lack of exclusives at the top of the software sales proves that to be true.

O:1.24 mill
4: 840k
U: 270k*

*can't remember if right or drunk.

 

[Usobuko]

I wonder if it would even make business sense for Sony to trim their margins and counter with some impressive deal, now, in the weeks prior to Christmas. Is it too late for Sony to put something like that together for the holidays? I suppose they could always just offer a game or PSN credit with new subscriptions for new consoles.

I thought the early stage of console lifetime are crucial. Essentially capture the $60/annually subscription base early as well as having a snowball wom-ish effects of getting new buyers simply because their friends/families are there.

I think it's less of Sony not doing much but more of Microsoft going for the jugular.

 

[orochi91]

They have two core teams so technically a 3-4'ywar cycle for each main game now but you are correct. IMO the naughty gods are the best talented and most effecient studio out there.

They need to send some of that magic over to Studio Japan and GG.

Nearing a decade on TLG and 3+ years on that Horizon RPG...

 

[C4Lukins]

Can we take away that the console market seems healthy?

I think with the transition to digital game sales that is occuring, it would be difficult to come to such a conclusion without further info.

 

[vinnygambini]

Its a co-developed project. Why is Nintendo helping to develop it? Because they have a good R&D and this isn't their first medical venture.

I don't see ResMed limiting a product like this to only Japan.

Their partnership interests me alot, but I would like to know how it was established.

Did they create a new subsidiary within their organization for this, like a 50-50 joint venture with ResMed? Nintendo invested $150 million last year to an unspecified company, could this be it?

We have so little info. I think with the aging population in Japan, Nintendo sees a growth opportunity there as oppose to gaming, where they've experienced little to no growth.

 

[joecanada]

I don't see how they can. I would call that a really poor calculation at this point

Actually this is one time I disagree with you. It's a firesale and it devalues your brand to be sure and a risky proposition but if ms can catch up even firesale style, you may just be able to sell some software and get the ball rolling... Makes it more interesting if gap just dropped by 40%

 

[allan-bh]

I agree. Nintendo's one of my favorite companies for gaming, & it's a shame to see what is happening to them right now.

The future seems pretty difficult for Nintendo.

Next handheld will probably sell less than 3DS continuing the downward spiral and be successful with the next console will be a major challenge.

I think that unless Nintendo creates a new fad (like Wiimote), next home console could be the last.

 

[Nightengale]

I wonder if it would even make business sense for Sony to trim their margins and counter with some impressive deal, now, in the weeks prior to Christmas. Is it too late for Sony to put something like that together for the holidays? I suppose they could always just offer a game via PSN, or PSN credit, with new subscriptions for new consoles.

They already have a deal right now ( better than their pre-BF Nov), which is the Choose One Game Out of Four Bundle which supposedly runs till the week before Christmas.

Chances are they'll announce another 2-game bundle for Christmas week alone.

 

[Rajang]

RAD has potential.

The Order 1886 may be their ticket into WWS if it performs well, critically and commercially.

When it comes to pushing tech, RaD has definitely the most potential to rival Naughty Dog, they have some brilliant people working for them. The founders are ex Naughty Dog and Blizzard employees. ND and RaD are quite similar to each other. It's no secret that RaD tries to emulate ND a bit, they have also taken over the flat structure that ND is known for.

RaD has a great track record, all of their previous games were absolutely brilliant. Ghost of Sparta especially, how they managed to pull those graphics off on PSP is still mindblowing. They are tech wizards. Imo they have been far more consistent than Naughty Dog. ND has made quite a few weak games imo: Jak 2, Jak X etc.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Can we take away that the console market seems healthy?

No, just because hardware sales are up doesn't mean the heart and soul of the games market is healthy when the sales are for AAA sequels and rehashes. I don't ever think of that as being healthy. Might still be the worst time in a long time for consoles as far as software is concerned. Maybe it's not anywhere near crash level, but there were much better times when there were more software houses operating successfully and things weren't so lopsided and familiar-feeling.

Well at least they are doing it now. Hopefully the studios work out and we see a ND like studio for MS.

I'm not sure what you want. Naughty Dog is a successful, tech-oriented first party. MS has those, too, but maybe not to your liking.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Definitely a little drunk.

Freaking nearly dislocated my shoulder last night moving boxes and slipping on a coathanger. So I think the booze is justified. Or I'm using the injury to justify alcoholism.

 

[Nightengale]

They need to send some of that magic over to Studio Japan and GG.

Nearing a decade on TLG and 3+ years on that Horizon RPG...

GG released a game last year. Plus an RPG simply takes longer to develop. That's the reality of some genres.

 

[Fdkn]

Market doesn't mean healthy when actual sales are lower than last year. Sure it was a launch year but we need to see next year to get a better picture.

was lower in hw revenue (because they are cheaper), iirc hw units went up by a bit

 

[stryke]

I was going to run the same estimate but piecemeal, only estimating WW sales after August 10th but it comes to about the same 14.7M or so WW

I think nov is not as good a time to do that kind of extrapolation with ratios since not all countries have Black Friday.

 

[miDnIghtEr20C]

No Amirox. Drive Club still sucks.

QFT.

 

[DR2K]

What's going to happen when they stop giving away X1s?

 

[SwiftDeath]

Definitely a little drunk.

Freaking nearly dislocated my shoulder last night moving boxes and slipping on a coathanger. So I think the booze is justified. Or I'm using the injury to justify alcoholism.

Goddamn coat-hangers. Sketchy bastards will get you every time.

Spoiler

lol hope you feel better!

I think nov is not as good a time to do that kind of extrapolation with ratios since not all countries have Black Friday.

Certainly that's going to be true, but I would generally just load more of the weight onto US sales so in that case it would be less than 14.7M or so

 

[Scum]

I think that ship has sailed honestly. They had a period where they could have tired to continue capitalizing on the wiimote's success/functionality, with where the wii motion plus was iterating on the concept, improving people's experience. They could have gone places with it if they really nurtured the thing and continued to make the right software for most consumers.

But they abandoned ship early, had really confusing messaging at the end, allowing a proliferation of so many garbage attachments and peripherals that people had to carry friggin' sacks around with them to determine which game they could functionally play at any given moment (/hyperbole). It was supposed to be kept simple, but limitations in the technology when it launched and some bad policy decisions/software decisions/strategic decisions led it off rails.

I think they need something new, and then they need to be confident about it. And if they are going to introduce a concept, they absolutely have to be sure they're ready to showcase why everyone needs it in their life in a way that is easily communicable, easy to understand when watching live demos, and which illustrates how well it works in some system defining software that people can write in reviews how "the game and system were essentially designed in tandem they're so synchronous."

Bloody good points there. Any ideas that come to mind? I can't think of anything of the top of my head at the moment? Steal Valve's originally designed haptic controller, perhaps? lool

 

[Deadly Joker]

I am a bit surprised that MS did not brag more about their victory, but I imagine that Spencer is behind this narritive and is smart enough to avoid potential shit talking that could come back to bite them in the coming months.

Yep. I think it's smart to just stay humble and let the media handle it. I wouldn't doubt that it was a company wide mandate to not make a big deal out of the sales. Hence, no big "braggy" tweets.

 

[Yatōkiri_Kilgharrah]

Nintendo is going to be just fine Jimmy, just fine. Ammibos had a big month Jimmy, a big month. I bet sony and microsoft are thinking of copping amiibos like they did with motion control, Just gotta be patient for Nintendo to return to the top of the charts

Your posts are obnoxious

Nintendo though.

They sold a shit ton of amiibo and their sales are up year on year. Also making a profit. They'll be fine.Whatever the Wii U's fate is.

 

[Biker19]

Even with the implosion of their handheld and home console divisions I expect Nintendo to be the last major player to leave the dedicated gaming market. It might be a really small market by then though.

That's something I'll also have to agree on.

IMO, I was assuming that Nintendo could buy the Playstation brand if something terrible were to happen to Sony as a whole. Just think what will happen if that were to become a reality: Nintendo's awesome 1st party exclusives, along with better performing hardware & with more support from Sony (although I'm a fan of most of Sony's 1st/2nd party exclusives as well, Nintendo would be in 1st place for that).

I just wish that both Nintendo & Sony were to be as rich as Microsoft is right now...then things could really turn up the heat.

 

[QaaQer]

No, just because hardware sales are up doesn't mean the heart and soul of the games market is healthy when the sales are for AAA sequels and rehashes. I don't ever think of that as being healthy. Might still be the worst time in a long time for consoles as far as software is concerned. Maybe it's not anywhere near crash level, but there were much better times when there were more software houses operating successfully and things weren't so lopsided and familiar-feeling.

My feelings to a T.

 

[Amir0x]

Actually this is one time I disagree with you. It's a firesale and it devalues your brand to be sure and a risky proposition but if ms can catch up even firesale style, you may just be able to sell some software and get the ball rolling... Makes it more interesting if gap just dropped by 40%

I'm not quite sure we disagree in what you're saying altogether. I am saying that now that they have dropped the price to these levels as a result of feeling a little marketshare threatened, they might feel inclined to keep it here. Because consumers now have a quite reasonable expectation that Microsoft will deliver cutthroat prices when their competitor gains a decent lead. They might decide to wait it out until the next massive price drop holiday season if it goes back up to $399.99.

But as a result of this strategy of keeping the price low, if they are smart and keep it here, they will "Get the ball rolling" as you say and "sell some more software." I think they close the gap by a further 250k in December. But then it'll start being much closer on a month to month basis again, unless Microsoft rises the price up to $399.99. Then PS4 will just go back to dominating, and with the 2015 games lineup next year Microsoft is not really going to have the ability for a lot of poor strategic choices.

 

[Conduit]

Which is Xbone/PS4/Wii U pie?

 

[orochi91]

Actually this is one time I disagree with you. It's a firesale and it devalues your brand to be sure and a risky proposition but if ms can catch up even firesale style, you may just be able to sell some software and get the ball rolling... Makes it more interesting if gap just dropped by 40%

Keeping the price at $329 going in to 2015 will ensure XB1 remains competitive.

Hope Sony cuts the price to $299 just to see MS scrambling again.

When it comes to pushing tech, RaD has definitely the most potential to rival Naughty Dog, they have some brilliant people working for them. The founders are ex Naughty Dog and Blizzard employees. ND and RaD are quite similar to each other. It's no secret that RaD tries to emulate ND a bit, they have also taken over the flat structure that ND is known for.

RaD has a great track record, all of their previous games were brilliant absolutely brilliant. Ghost of Sparta especially, how they managed to pull those graphics off on PSP is still mindblowing. They are tech wizards. Imo they have been far more consistent than Naughty Dog. ND has made quite a few weak games imo.

I was nodding along in agreement until I reached your part about Jak 2 lol

Jak 2 is one of the greatest games ever, leading to Jak 3 which took everything that made Jak 2 great and ramped it up another level.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Goddamn coat-hangers. Sketchy bastards will get you every time.

Spoiler

lol hope you feel better!

You can be such a sweetie-pie when you want to Swift!

 

[ryutaro's mama]

From page 1 to 100, this is the most entertaining thread I have read in a long time.

Bravo, GAF.

 

[sportz103]

Which is Xbone/PS4/Wii U pie?

Both are; Black is November, White is LTD

 

[gamechanger87]

so i have to read through 100 pages of thread? i guess i'll never know.

1.2m to 800k

 

[xxracerxx]

Which is Xbone/PS4/Wii U pie?

Both

 

[Amir0x]

Keeping the price at $329 going in to 2015 will ensure XB1 remains competitive.

Hope Sony cuts the price to $299 just to see MS scrambling again.

I'd be shocked if they keep the price at $329.99. Now that'd be fucking hardball right there.

I think they settle in at $349.99 honestly.

 

[NahaNago]

that 400k gap is a lot more reasonable a difference, way to go Microsoft. Was originally thinking it would be a 500k difference or more based off sales.