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[leeh]

Well, Matt works in game development.

Oh, I know, I'm just intrigued on his own personal views and experiences.

Here's the thing, how do you separate disappointed sales from the feeling of "Maybe we didn't do good enough"?

And if rumors are true, CD are the ones who pitched the idea to SE, and facilitated this exclusivity deal with MS.

In this case, we all know why and I'm sure SE will know too. The game reviewed well, had good consumer responses, yet released around the same time as the largest multi-plats while releasing on the same day as a blockbuster.

 

[flatearthpandas]

Did they release the anime along with the game? Can't imagine what they were thinking if they didn't.

 

[leeh]

You really have a hard time with this. Yes, the developers got paid. How many developers do you think they will continue to pay if this is the only profit they can make? Reality is cruel and hopefully, sweet child, you're spared from the worst sides of it before you're really ready. I fear for your health if something like reality came barging in on you.

You know guys, if the worst happens and these devs get laid off, you know they'd find another job in next to no time right?

Life isn't doom and gloom. I could put my CV up online and get bombarded with recruiters, many in hours with jobs lined up, for all these guys it'll be the exact same.

You do not work or live in the world of game development. Your extrapolations from personal experience mean fuck all to a different industry.

Software development lifecycles, look them up.

EDIT: Back to work...

 

[Darkstorne]

In this case, we all know why and I'm sure SE will know too. The game reviewed well, had good consumer responses, yet released around the same time as the largest multi-plats while releasing on the same day as a blockbuster.

It had terrible consumer response. 200k across 360 and Xbone? How is that a good response? And please don't pretend Square are going to be happy enough if people are saying nice things about it but not buying it. Some games have sold better than this and still led to entire studios closing their doors. Hopefully Rise of the Tomb Raider gets a big push on PS4 and PC next year to avoid that.

 

[Rymuth]

Did they release the anime along with the game? Can't imagine what they were thinking if they didn't.

Atleast we got Reggie dancing to the tune of Yokai Dance out of it

http://youtu.be/HkS59YbBDgM

 

[maxcriden]

Morning! Any word on 3DS or on Nintendo software other than YW?

 

[leeh]

It had terrible consumer response. 200k across 360 and Xbone? How is that a good response? And please don't pretend Square are going to be happy enough if people are saying nice things about it but not buying it. Some games have sold better than this and still led to entire studios closing their doors. Hopefully Rise of the Tomb Raider gets a big push on PS4 and PC next year to avoid that.

I've seen nothing but praise for the title, with GOTY references. Just cause no-one had a clue it existed/released, doesn't mean the response wasn't good.

 

[kinoki]

You know guys, if the worst happens and these devs get laid off, you know they'd find another job in next to no time right?

Life isn't doom and gloom. I could put my CV up online and get bombarded with recruiters, many in hours with jobs lined up, for all these guys it'll be the exact same.

Software development lifecycles, look them up.

EDIT: Back to work...

You really are cruel and selfish. Or just really naïve. It's hard to tell if it's malice. Looking for work is never fun. It's hard and unforgiving. When you have loans and children it's far less fun. It stresses you to the point of depression. Show some empathy, man.

 

[RespectThySole]

You really have to wonder how future Xbox One exclusives will perform in terms of sales.These sales and the poor marketing for some of their titles doesn't bode well.

Tomb Raider is too big of a name to only open with 200k even if the audience isn't ideal and the release timing was poor. Those new IPs next year are probably doomed to the same fate or worse unfortunately.(Scalebound, Quantum Break, Recore, Sea of Thieves)

 

[Y2Kev]

You know guys, if the worst happens and these devs get laid off, you know they'd find another job in next to no time right?

Life isn't doom and gloom. I could put my CV up online and get bombarded with recruiters, many in hours with jobs lined up, for all these guys it'll be the exact same.

Software development lifecycles, look them up.

EDIT: Back to work...

Wow...

 

[Ricky_R]

Any info on Halo 5? How bout The Order?

Edit: Hahah man... leeh needs an intervention. He's glued to denial.

 

[KORNdoggy]

I've seen nothing but praise for the title, with GOTY references. Just cause no-one had a clue it existed/released, doesn't mean the response wasn't good.

a good response is people buying it. as the other guy said. just saying nice things is about as useless as it gets for them as developers/publishers. maybe we should ask oddworld inhabitants? lol

 

[kinoki]

You really have to wonder how future Xbox One exclusives will perform in terms of sales.These sales and the poor marketing for some of their titles doesn't bode well.

Tomb Raider is too big of a name to only open with 200k even if the audience isn't ideal and there is poor release timing. Those new IPs next year are probably doomed to the same fate or worse unfortunately.(Scalebound, Quantum Break, Recore, Sea of Thieves)

If any of them breaks 200k, Microsoft should consider them successful with what they had to work with. I don't see any of them doing good numbers, unfortunately.

 

[Chobel]

You know guys, if the worst happens and these devs get laid off, you know they'd find another job in next to no time right?

Life isn't doom and gloom. I could put my CV up online and get bombarded with recruiters, many in hours with jobs lined up, for all these guys it'll be the exact same.

Okay, now I see that you have no fucking idea about what you're talking about.

 

[Darkstorne]

I've seen nothing but praise for the title, with GOTY references. Just cause no-one had a clue it existed/released, doesn't mean the response wasn't good.

Square: "Great job, CD! I mean sure, we paid you guys millions to create this game, and it sold like shit severely damaging our next quarterly, but everyone's saying nice things about it and that's what matters, right!? Here's a bonus, and please get started on the next sequel =D"

- Excerpt from Leeh's la-la-land of magic butterflies and unicorn friends.

 

[Hoo-doo]

You know guys, if the worst happens and these devs get laid off, you know they'd find another job in next to no time right?

Life isn't doom and gloom. I could put my CV up online and get bombarded with recruiters, many in hours with jobs lined up, for all these guys it'll be the exact same.

Software development lifecycles, look them up.

EDIT: Back to work...

You should link your GAF name on your resume. See what happens.

 

[leeh]

Okay, now I see that you have no fucking idea about what you're talking about.

Really? Because that's why I went to 5 interviews before I took this current position and managed to arrange them all in a week. Recruiters are a spawn enemy in the IT world, they're fucking ruthless. They're like used car salesmen with jobs.

Wow...

You really are cruel and selfish. Or just really naïve. It's hard to tell if it's malice. Looking for work is never fun. It's hard and unforgiving. When you have loans and children it's far less fun. It stresses you to the point of depression. Show some empathy, man.

Guys, I'd never endorse laying people off, but it's never the end of the world! Good devs are few are far between, and I know, because I'm currently interviewing for some people. If the devs at CD don't get treated this way, they should move anyway because they should feel valued.

Square: "Great job, CD! I mean sure, we paid you guys millions to create this game, and it sold like shit severely damaging our next quarterly, but everyone's saying nice things about it and that's what matters, right!? Here's a bonus, and please get started on the next sequel =D"

- Excerpt from Leeh's la-la-land of magic butterflies and unicorn friends.

The dev's have ZERO visibility to that, unless they're higher ups are more of the open sort. They get paid, they care about their career progression. If there's no threat to their jobs, then they should feed proud.

 

[RexNovis]

You know guys, if the worst happens and these devs get laid off, you know they'd find another job in next to no time right?

Life isn't doom and gloom. I could put my CV up online and get bombarded with recruiters, many in hours with jobs lined up, for all these guys it'll be the exact same.

Software development lifecycles, look them up.

EDIT: Back to work...

Psst your narcissistic delusions are showing.

 

[Chobel]

You really have to wonder how future Xbox One exclusives will perform in terms of sales.These sales and the poor marketing for some of their titles doesn't bode well.

Tomb Raider is too big of a name to only open with 200k even if the audience isn't ideal and the release timing was poor. Those new IPs next year are probably doomed to the same fate or worse unfortunately.(Scalebound, Quantum Break, Recore, Sea of Thieves)

Scalebound: open world + dragons = good formula. I think it will do well.
Quantum Break: Insane graphics should help.
ReCore: Bomba.
Sea of Thieves: It will also get released on PC, so I think it should do well.

 

[Birgitte2004]

Why do people focus so heavily on the US?

Last generation, the PS3 was doomed just because it's US sales were so low.

This generation, Microsoft is "doing fantastic" in spite of the fact that it's rest-of-the-world sales are just as bad, relatively speaking, as the PS3's US sales were.

How is that not a double-standard?

I know the US market is big but it's not THAT big.

 

[viHuGi]

Why do people focus so heavily on the US?

Last generation, the PS3 was doomed just because it's US sales were so low.

This generation, Microsoft is "doing fantastic" in spite of the fact that it's rest-of-the-world sales are just as bad, relatively speaking, as the PS3's US sales were.

How is that not a double-standard?

I know the US market is big but it's not THAT big.

US Is important for the overall picture, if ps4 did 1.5m in the US this November just imagine how much it did WW.

 

[RichiRamjag]

Why do people focus so heavily on the US?

Last generation, the PS3 was doomed just because it's US sales were so low.

This generation, Microsoft is "doing fantastic" in spite of the fact that it's rest-of-the-world sales are just as bad, relatively speaking, as the PS3's US sales were.

How is that not a double-standard?

I know the US market is big but it's not THAT big.

MS really isn't strong outside of the US. Hasn't been for some time.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Scalebound: open world + dragons - Platinum = Bomba
Quantum Break: Insane graphics should help.
ReCore: Bomba.
Sea of Thieves: It will also get released on PC, so I think it should do well.

Fixed it for you. (only affected Scalebound, I agree on the rest. Quantum Break has the potential to become XBOX One's best selling 1st party title so far.)

 

[Newtype-001]

You know guys, if the worst happens and these devs get laid off, you know they'd find another job in next to no time right?

Life isn't doom and gloom. I could put my CV up online and get bombarded with recruiters, many in hours with jobs lined up, for all these guys it'll be the exact same.

Software development lifecycles, look them up.

EDIT: Back to work...

 

[Tankard]

Not game development, but I'm a lead developer of a team. I can't really say much about where I work/what I do.

EDIT: I'm seeing a lot of green, I'm sorry that I tried suggesting that maybe the developers are happy that they developed an amazing game and shouldn't be disappointed with sales because it wasn't their fault. This place sometimes...

Aren't you the Halo 5 90% digital sales guy?
Yeah, this place sometimes.,.

 

[Ricky_R]

Alright Evilore, is leeh GAF's comic relief?

 

[Raist]

We got the statement that MS/SE was happy with the game, so at least it's not that the game was piss poor which led to bad sales. The dev team will just be moved to work on something else, not disbanded.

It was a reactionary statement that came out when it started to be clear that the game was bombing. I mean what did you expect them to say? "Yeah, the game is bombing. It's crap anyway. CD folks better start looking for job openings".

 

[leeh]

What's so surprising that dev's can actually get jobs? Companies spend a lot of time and money to do so and often fail. My last place had 45(!) positions available for software devs, couldn't find any good ones.

Guess what, we just ended outsourcing to India instead after 2 years of looking.

 

[JoeM86]

Anyone hear about Pokémon Super Mystery Dungeon? Not expecting it to have done amazingly based on the last dungeon game, but am a bit curious

That's a hell of a shame. I had a feeling based on the figures we had of the franchise in March, Japanese sales since then, and the fact NIntendo hadn't trumpeted the sales.

It's a pity, it's definitely a fun franchise, though Busters is more for me than the main stuff.

 

[Radec]

dead





PS4 numbers are crazy. Is there a possibility PS4 to overcome Wii's record?

Probably only if they drop it to $199 on next black friday.

 

[igordennis]

Wait Halo 5 sold around 1.5 million in 1 month? Where are people getting these ridiculous numbers? You think it went from 3.5 million in 1 day with 4 to 1.5 in 4 weeks with 5?

I just want MS to release real numbers so people can stop with this nonsense. I remember one guy told me H5 sold 800k in US in its first week. Absolutely ridiculous.

I assume this is sarcasm

 

[Hanmik]

Wow...

why does a guy like Leeh not have a tag yet.. ? for real.. never seen a poster in here like that. I have seen lots of posters.. but he is something else.

 

[Newtype-001]

What's so surprising that dev's can actually get jobs? Companies spend a lot of time and money to do so and often fail. My last place had 45(!) positions available for software devs, couldn't find any good ones.

Guess what, we just ended outsourcing to India instead after 2 years of looking.

 

[lukeskymac]

If consumers pay $60 for HD remasters like The Last of Us, I don't see why that would stop people from buying rise of the tomb raider just because it was out on another platform a year back. Most will probably see it as a new game (not knowing of the xbox ones exclusivity /not caring) and considering a lot of people bought the 2013 reboot: I don't think it will necessarily bomb again

Dude, you are comparing Rise of the Tomb Raider to The Last of Us.

 

[Kayant]

why does a guy like Leeh not have a tag yet.. ? for real.. never seen a poster in here like that. I have seen lots of posters.. but he is something else.

Lool ikr. How many meme has he created now again?

 

[leeh]

I love TPB.

 

[Japanmanx3]

Leeh come on dude...


Anyway I see my boy Mulcair came through with the goods last night. Great to see that.

 

[kinoki]

What's so surprising that dev's can actually get jobs? Companies spend a lot of time and money to do so and often fail. My last place had 45(!) positions available for software devs, couldn't find any good ones.

Guess what, we just ended outsourcing to India instead after 2 years of looking.

Yup. The candidates who weren't good enough that had loans, children and that possibly got laid off from companies that had to fire them due to downsizing... Oh, wait. You basically have no grasp of reality. You might want to consider that the reason why no one is agreeing with you is that you're wrong.

 

[RexNovis]

why does a guy like Leeh not have a tag yet.. ? for real.. never seen a poster in here like that. I have seen lots of posters.. but he is something else.

Aren't you the Halo 5 90% digital sales guy?
Yeah, this place sometimes.,.

He's a serial bloviator. He thinks his

Spoiler

bull

shit doesn't stink and he loves waving it in everyone's faces. To say it's obnoxious would be putting it lightly.

 

[Chris1964]

why does a guy like Leeh not have a tag yet.. ? for real.. never seen a poster in here like that. I have seen lots of posters.. but he is something else.

Because that's what he wants?

What's the biggest problem, what he posts are those who continue to quote his posts?

 

[Kill3r7]

Fixed it for you. (only affected Scalebound, I agree on the rest. Quantum Break has the potential to become XBOX One's best selling 1st party title so far.)

I don't think QB has a chance to be anything more than MP3 or AW in sales. Neither one sold particularly well although both were excellent games.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Someone actually said this?



They need to cut that shit out. Did the same with sunset and maybe titanfall? I'm not sure what they're looking for from these companies.

I dunno man, both of those games may end up coming to PS4 without Sony having to pay a dime. I think Sony needs profitable deals going forward and that's the bottom line, put

 

[SmokedMeat]

The profits from the product has to cover the cost and an additional (let's say) 15% to make it worth the time for investors. Do you think anyone made a profit from Tomb Raider? And before you start talking about the deal with MS and how that made the money back for SE consider that that deal isn't on the table next time. Also, the game didn't earn that money as it came from other sources. It's deep into the red.

Hopefully the Microsoft deal isn't on the table next time. That would mean a true multiplatform release across Xbox, PS4, PC, and maybe even NX.

Its also worth noting that Rise has yet to appear on two big platforms, so there's some sales in it's future. Sadly it's a distant future, but that's the fault of management.

 

[Kyougar]

"No," Spencer says, "I fully expect that you’ll see another console from us […] Our best customers are Xbox console customers, and I want to keep those people engaged both on the Xbox One and anything we might do in the future. I’m 100 percent committed to that."

http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/10/...16-interview-crackdown-3-quantum-break-recore

he expects it. he is the boss of Xbox and only expects it. That is no 100% commitment to a new generation.

 

[allan-bh]

I don't think QB has a chance to be anything more than MP3 or AW in sales. Neither one sold particularly well although both were excellent games.

No way, Quantum Break is a type of game that has much more mass appeal than Alan Wake.

 

[leeh]

Sorry for having a positive outlook on life guys. I'll list the points for what I'm ridiculous for thinking:

• Developers can actually get jobs
• Developers will be proud that they made an amazing game, without taking account sales
• Developers will be proud that the feedback from the people playing the game is great, and that they're not disappointed because it didn't sell that well.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

Gaffers sure like ganging up on some people.

If soemone acts stupid, not saying the one in question does, ignore him, don't give him an audience.

 

[Y2Kev]

Really? Because that's why I went to 5 interviews before I took this current position and managed to arrange them all in a week. Recruiters are a spawn enemy in the IT world, they're fucking ruthless. They're like used car salesmen with jobs.



Guys, I'd never endorse laying people off, but it's never the end of the world! Good devs are few are far between, and I know, because I'm currently interviewing for some people. If the devs at CD don't get treated this way, they should move anyway because they should feel valued.

The dev's have ZERO visibility to that, unless they're higher ups are more of the open sort. They get paid, they care about their career progression. If there's no threat to their jobs, then they should feed proud.

I think it's safe to say no one is suggesting you "endorse" laying people off (by the way, no one cares if you endorse it or not), but your general heartlessness and callousness towards people losing their jobs because a portion of them will probably get rehired at some point is sociopathic behavior. I don't know if you enjoy being the center of the conversation in these threads based on the last few months of you posting here, or if you're just playing a part now, but this is pretty cynical and meanspirited. I'm not sitting here going, "Yeah, even if they do get layoffs, MOST of them will eventually find work even if it means disruption to their lives, their families' lives, extreme stress, unhappiness, depression, or the like!" I'm instead wondering why you've felt it necessary to be so rude. Have you no sense of decency?

 

[driver116]

"No," Spencer says, "I fully expect that you’ll see another console from us […] Our best customers are Xbox console customers, and I want to keep those people engaged both on the Xbox One and anything we might do in the future. I’m 100 percent committed to that."

http://www.theverge.com/2015/12/10/...16-interview-crackdown-3-quantum-break-recore

We should disregard anything he says as ultimately it isn't his decision.
Though I'm sure Xbox will be back for the 4th round.

 

[Kill3r7]

No way, Quantum Break is a type of game that has much more mass appeal than Alan Wake.

More mass appeal than MP3 (Rockstar)? MP3 only managed to sell 440K in its debut month.