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[Stuggernaut]

PS4+ is a horrible idea... having a PS4VR is the ONLY way they could pull this off without a ton of backlash. But even then, it's a huge risk.

Having games that run better (or only work on) a specific "type" of PS4 is just bad bad bad. Normal people buy a PS4 and expect to be able to play ALL PS4 games on it. Imagine joe-parent buying their kid a game for Christmas only to find out it is a PS4+ game and it does not work.

Reminds me of when my Dad bought my brother Sega 32x games thinking it worked in a normal Genesis.

And what about developers? Do they split their resources for + games vs normal... or go all in one bucket?

Wow this is a bad idea...

I really hope Sony doesn't do this, although I would be morbidly curious to see what would happen ;P

 

[Neuromancer]

PS4+ is a horrible idea... having a PS4VR is the ONLY way they could pull this off without a ton of backlash. But even then, it's a huge risk.

Having games that run better (or only work on) a specific "type" of PS4 is just bad bad bad. Normal people buy a PS4 and expect to be able to play ALL PS4 games on it. Imagine joe-parent buying their kid a game for Christmas only to find out it is a PS4+ game and it does not work.

Reminds me of when my Dad bought my brother Sega 32x games thinking it worked in a normal Genesis.

And what about developers? Do they split their resources for + games vs normal... or go all in one bucket?

Wow this is a bad idea...

I really hope Sony doesn't do this, although I would be morbidly curious to see what would happen ;P

Don't worry, it's never going to happen. Even 2006 era arrogant Sony would never be that dumb.

 

[Shoeless]

A VR that a cell phone does can't be really compared with the VR the Oculus Rift does using a strong PC.

PS4 is a weak machine for VR, no doubt about that. Not saying people will puking or anything, but isn't a good hardware.

What are the odds that PS VR itself is meant to carry over to the PS5?

After all, the headset is just that, so there's no reason that the peripheral can't move over to a more powerful system and benefit from that. I haven't tried Vive, but I've used early DK versions of Oculus and PS VR when it was still called Morpheus, and the engineering/form factor of PS VR is definitely a winner. As a physical peripheral that needs to be worn, it's cleverly designed.

 

[small44]

To be fair, the PS2 had a Plus version, complete with label as "+". Same price though. If it's same price for more functionality, no ones going to really complain.

It was exclusive to Japan and didn't even sell well so it's not a good idea the make an PS4+

 

[Trojan]

A PS4+ makes all the sense in the world.

• Ultra HD Blu Ray Support
• Ready for VR - no add ons required
• Hybrid 1TB hard drive
• Faster Loading Times
• 1 year PS+ included

And whatever else makes sense, including some pack in software. You don't think this would have strong appeal and extend the gen? Of course it would.

If you're saying that the PSVR will create this second "plus" model, I can see it making sense to have a few extra bells and whistles in there. We already know that there is a separate processing unit for PSVR that is needed, so no matter what they have a hardware fragmentation with PSVR. The processing unit could be utilized to help with some of these extra features (e.g. faster loading times), which would have some of your bullets as nice "back of the box" extras that you get by adopting VR.

If you're saying Sony should create a new SKU with this stuff separate of PSVR, that makes no sense to me. Sony is already going to have market fragmentation with PSVR; introducing another SKU into the mix on top of that will further confuse customers and these features alone really aren't that valuable to consumers other than a very small subset.

 

[allan-bh]

It was exclusive to Japan and didn't even sell well so it's not a good idea the make an PS4+

I'm pretty sure Sony will launch a new PS4 compatible with Ultra HD Blu-Ray, assuming the current one can't play UHD BD discs, which I think it can't since Blu-Ray Association said that new players are needed.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I'm pretty sure Sony will launch a new PS4 compatible with Ultra HD Blu-Ray, assuming the current one can't play UHD BD discs, which I think it can't since Blu-Ray Association said that new players are needed.

Does it even make sense to have UHD support, when 95 % of the people at home still have 1080p tvs ?

I think UHD should come into play next generation, when 4k tvs are affordable for more people.

 

[Angelus Errare]

To be fair, the PS2 had a Plus version, complete with label as "+". Same price though. If it's same price for more functionality, no ones going to really complain.

PSX?

 

[CosmicQueso]

If you're saying that the PSVR will create this second "plus" model, I can see it making sense to have a few extra bells and whistles in there. We already know that there is a separate processing unit for PSVR that is needed, so no matter what they have a hardware fragmentation with PSVR. The processing unit could be utilized to help with some of these extra features (e.g. faster loading times), which would have some of your bullets as nice "back of the box" extras that you get by adopting VR.

That's what I'm saying, yep. Exactly. Boosts your average selling price, gives you a high end sales option, allows early adopters/enthusiasts to get their tech lust up, extends your cycle. From a business perspective, I don't know how you not do this, or at least try, even if most of it is back of box bullet points.

Normal people buy a PS4 and expect to be able to play ALL PS4 games on it.

Of course. Don't be silly and assume this would split the userbase like that. Why would it.

 

[pooptest]

Does it even make sense to have UHD support, when 95 % of the people at home still have 1080p tvs ?

I think UHD should come into play next generation, when 4k tvs are affordable for more people.

4K TV's are relatively cheap.

However, I don't think they should do a PS4+.

 

[Boombloxer]

It was exclusive to Japan and didn't even sell well so it's not a good idea the make an PS4+

You have posted fiction.

It was in the US, and was the default model post-release--they phased out the older versions every time they did a major revision. One of those was JP only, another was EU only. The rest all came here. There were something like 14 revisions to the PS2, they just didn't charge extra, which is why it worked.

PSX was another system, same with the Q.

 

[allan-bh]

Does it even make sense to have UHD support, when 95 % of the people at home still have 1080p tvs ?

I think UHD should come into play next generation, when 4k tvs are affordable for more people.

Sony is part of Blu Ray Association, so is normal to expect they have all interest in promote the new media. Sony even risked the PS3 future rising the costs for offer Blu-Ray support, so launching a new PS4 model compatible with UHD BD disc is easy and should be done.

 

[CosmicQueso]

The dying embers of the NPD thread always features the crazies.
Usually its the "Wii U is going to start selling huge any day now!" guys.

Now its "most successful console needs a reboot" loons.
Sheesh.

Saving this one.

And it's not a reboot. Go ahead and work on that reading comprehension. Have a lovely day.

 

[FuturusX]

Which is not what I am arguing against. I'm saying there are more consequences than just people having the knowledge, such as what they do with that knowledge, how they react to it, and what to speculate given it.

Woah...

 

[Boombloxer]

Saving this one.

And it's not a reboot. Go ahead and work on that reading comprehension. Have a lovely day.

We will ignore the fact that the actual most-successful console had multiple revisions.

 

[kswiston]

We will ignore the fact that the actual most-successful console had multiple revisions.

What's the actual most successful console? Didn't PS2 end up staying slightly ahead of the DS worldwide?

 

[Y2Kev]

why wouldnt this apply to every console ever?

 

[Boombloxer]

What's the actual most successful console? Didn't PS2 end up staying slightly ahead of the DS worldwide?

Pretty much, but I separate handhelds and home consoles. So it's still the PS2.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I think most of us know they going to be revisions.
Just i don't expect any big changes like added power for VR for eg .

 

[Primethius]

Really not seeing a problem with what Cosmic suggested, aside from maybe the VR bit.

It sounds like a standard revision to me.

 

[slavesnyder]

Caught up on the discussion around PS4 -Queso Edition.
The idea is strange, but tempting. New3DS worked. And if VR becomes the next waterc... Big thing, having a better experience for a fex extra bucks might work.
Most important point might have gone lost:

PS4 showing incredible strength globally, driving profit... extending the cycle if you can is always a good thing for the business side.

Right now Sony has this gen on lock, so why shouldn't they try to make it last as long as possible.
And I think this is Spencer's worst nightmare. Microsoft would prefer to keep this gen as short as possible, but what if everyone else, including Sony, Publishers and consumers just like it as it is?
All of these groups just invested a lot of money in this gen and there might be enough excitement through VR to keep it fresh.
And then you are sitting there with your VR-free box and watch the days go by.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Right now Sony has this gen on lock, so why shouldn't they try to make it last as long as possible.
And I think this is Spencer's worst nightmare. Microsoft would prefer to keep this gen as short as possible, but what if everyone else, including Sony, Publishers and consumers just like it as it is?
All of these groups just invested a lot of money in this gen and there might be enough excitement through VR to keep it fresh.
And then you are sitting there with your VR-free box and watch the days go by.

The problem with that is MS can bring out a new box with more powerful hardware .
And then make a deal with one of the VR companies to have it work on there system .
So making the gen longer might not be a plus for them .
In fact i would say making the gen the normal 5 to 6 years is perfect for them .

 

[Square2015]

Next-gen war updated: PS4 almost doubled last November; Price drop success! Xbone flat. WiiU stable.

LTD:
PS4 10.8m [ten million barrier broken]
XBO 9.7m
WiiU 4.6m

 

[Shoeless]

The problem with that is MS can bring out a new box with more powerful hardware .
And then make a deal with one of the VR companies to have it work on there system .

That's an interesting proposition. Although I'd be curious to see what level of enthusiasm Valve or Facebook would have with collaborating with Microsoft on getting the hardware to work with each other. And vice versa. A non-MS peripheral designed to go up against PS VR would be a pretty unexpected development, but a very interesting one.

 

[etta]

Woah...

Yes..., there's market forces for brands and products similarly to how there's market forces for securities.
Of course those forces apply for the people that have a say/power/money in the system (as in ecosystem), and not GAF/people interested in sales data for casual reasons, which is why Microsoft handles the way they release numbers in a very specific manner.

 

[Raist]

To be fair, the PS2 had a Plus version, complete with label as "+". Same price though. If it's same price for more functionality, no ones going to really complain.

What, the PSX?

 

[Pezus]

Older numbers are skewed by the fact that XB1 was doing comparatively better near launch in many EU countries than it is doing now. Anything from 2014 is going to be heavily skewed by launch numbers. PS4 doesn't have ridiculous 10:1 leads in EU or anything, but your "outlier" countries more than compensate for the countries that are less than 4:1.

I mean, Japan is 2M PS4 to 60k XB1. That's going to skew your ratios if you are extrapolating the XB1 outside of US/UK from WW PS4 numbers.

Yes but then France, another big country) is only around 3:1. There are outliers in both directions so I don't really see the rationale for the ratio going above 60%.

16-17m is still my guess and it really seems more reasonable than suggesting something like 2-3m outside USA+UK

Btw, XB1 did better comparatively in the US in the beginning because it had only launched in a few countries worldwide back then.

 

[slavesnyder]

The problem with that is MS can bring out a new box with more powerful hardware .
And then make a deal with one of the VR companies to have it work on there system .
So making the gen longer might not be a plus for them .
In fact i would say making the gen the normal 5 to 6 years is perfect for them .

Fair point. But starting a new gen on your own is easier said than done.
Publishers invested heavily in this gen and now is the time for revenue on a huge install base. It would be like cooking the next meal without having even eaten the first one.
Same goes for consumers.

Of course you could be right, though, but it might be that it's not on Microsoft says when the next gen starts.

 

[CosmicQueso]

why wouldnt this apply to every console ever?

No idea! I didn't think the concept was at all controversial when I threw it out there. But I'm a LOON Kev, a loon!

Hell man, I ain't even Canadian!

 

[gundamkyoukai]

Yes but then France, another big country) is only around 3:1. There are outliers in both directions so I don't really see the rationale for the ratio going above 60%.

16-17m is still my guess and it really seems more reasonable than suggesting something like 2-3m outside USA+UK

Btw, XB1 did better comparatively in the US in the beginning because it had only launched in a few countries worldwide back then.

France was 3 to 1 but that was at the end of 2014 .
It could be 5 or 6 to one now .

Fair point. But starting a new gen on your own is easier said than done.
Publishers invested heavily in this gen and now is the time for revenue on a huge install base. It would be like cooking the next meal without having even eaten the first one.
Same goes for consumers.

Of course you could be right, though, but it might be that it's not on Microsoft says when the next gen starts.

Truth is going to next gen should be easy for both companies .
Just upgrade the tech inside with full BC .
For Sony they can even have PSVR work with the new system so that is also a plus .

 

[Boombloxer]

What, the PSX?

No, PSX was a different system.

 

[Pezus]

France was 3 to 1 but that was at the end of 2014 .
It could be 5 or 6 to one now .

Unlikely that the ratio would double in one year. That would require absolutely unprecedented sales for PS4 and for XB1 to slow down considerably.

iirc, XB1 was at almost 400k at the end of 2014 in France and PS4 around 1.1m.
Even if XB1 didn't sell anything in 2015, PS4 would have to sell another 900k-1.3m so far this year there for the ratio to reach 5-6:1.

Now, XB1 obviously didn't stop selling so it would require even crazier PS4 numbers this year for your guess to be true

 

[Raist]

No, PSX was a different system.

Then I have no idea what a PS2+ is.

 

[King_Moc]

Any idea on what Wii U sold for the month? I've seen 250k mentioned, but seen nothing to suggest where that comes from.

 

[FuturusX]

Then I have no idea what a PS2+ is.

Sounds mythical.

Yes..., there's market forces for brands and products similarly to how there's market forces for securities.
Of course those forces apply for the people that have a say/power/money in the system (as in ecosystem), and not GAF/people interested in sales data for casual reasons, which is why Microsoft handles the way they release numbers in a very specific manner.

I would suggest that the answer is likely more straight forward...but hey you sound like an expert.

 

[AniHawk]

Any idea on what Wii U sold for the month? I've seen 250k mentioned, but seen nothing to suggest where that comes from.

240k, the number comes from npd.

 

[etta]

I would suggest that the answer is likely more straight forward...but hey you sound like an expert.

There's nothing straight forward about managing expectations and perceptions of a product and brand that had billions of dollars poured into it. Consequences have their own consequences which have their own consequences. Sometimes you'll have no choice other than to chose the lesser of two evils.

 

[King_Moc]

240k, the number comes from npd.

Ah, ok, thanks.

 

[Imru’ al-Qays]

Then I have no idea what a PS2+ is.

Me neither. It doesn't sound like it was particularly successful.

No idea! I didn't think the concept was at all controversial when I threw it out there. But I'm a LOON Kev, a loon!

Hell man, I ain't even Canadian!

Can you list examples of this strategy being undertaken successfully? Sony's past experiment(s?) seem to have been 1) Japan-specific and 2) flops. Otherwise, Sega and Nintendo used to pull this sort of shit back in the fourth and fifth generations but everyone agrees it was a terrible strategy that wound up confusing and frustrating consumers.

 

[ZSaberLink]

One would think, given the success of Animal Crossing: New Leaf, that the Animal Crossing name would have more recognition.

New Leaf sold 381.2K in its June debut, for example. It seemed like the franchise was in a positive upswing.

So when I saw the performance of Animal Crossing Amiibo Festival as so low I was surprised. Looks like the poor reviews really hurt its sales potential.

Given what Amiibo Festival was though, I think everyone saw through the name and realized it wasn't an Animal Crossing game at all. Plus, if they really wanted a board game, there was a better product in Mario Party 10 (which debuted at 290K) earlier in the year.

Honestly the Wii U being flat YoY w/o any key software and basically only the Smash/Splat bundle is surprising to me. I expected it to be down for sure.

Btw, can you help me out with more specific Youkai Watch numbers? Same with 3DS hardware (I assume it still sold better than Wii U, right?). Thanks!


Also can we get some approximate numbers for Just Dance? Kind of wondering how the game sold over all, and approximately how much is the Wii SKU vs. Wii U SKU and then other platforms (I was surprised to see the Wii U version beat out the 360 version to be honest).

 

[Welfare]

Never heard of a PS2+. Was that the actual name or are you saying that it was a + because of Sony "upgrading" the hardware?

 

[Raist]

France was 3 to 1 but that was at the end of 2014 .
It could be 5 or 6 to one now .

5-6:1 seems a bit much.

But one thing to consider is the trend:

2013
PS4 240k
XB1 126k

1.9:1


2014
PS4 1.1M LTD so 860k
XB1 416k LTD so 290k
Ratios 2.6:1 LTD (3:1 in 2014)

There were some ramblings that the PS4 might outsell the XB1 4:1 in 2015. We'll see next month, probably.

 

[Pezus]

Btw, did we get no info on NDC total sales this month?

Oh and 3DS sales

 

[ZOONAMI]

A PS4+ makes all the sense in the world.

• Ultra HD Blu Ray Support
• Ready for VR - no add ons required
• Hybrid 1TB hard drive
• Faster Loading Times
• 1 year PS+ included

And whatever else makes sense, including some pack in software. You don't think this would have strong appeal and extend the gen? Of course it would.





Well, yes. Sony's already hinted at the possibility. This interview discussed Ultra HD Blu-Ray in particular, but the idea's being considered.



Yeah. If only we lived in a world where a company could slap the name "New" on a revision of an old device, make the specs just slightly better while removing the power cable from the box and still sell millions, right?

n3ds literally has one exclusive game. I won't defend the lack of a power adapter, that is some bullshit.

It has already been confirmed that psvr is coming with a boost box of sorts.

A 4k Blu-ray version is literally just updating the hdmi to 2.0 and adding hdcp 2.2 support, not tweaking the CPU or gpu.

I could see an upgraded PS4 VR sku that bundles in the aforementioned box, and includes a headset, and adds 4K Blu-ray playback. Also a separate sku that just adds 4k Blu-ray support.

They aren't going to release a ps4 with upgraded CPU and gpu specs with software not supported by a launch ps4. There's a small possibility that they might boost CPU and gpu clocks to allow for minor fps increases, but that's the extent of what might happen. Outside of PSVR, you aren't going to see exclusive software for an upgraded system.

 

[FuturusX]

There's nothing straight forward about managing expectations and perceptions of a product and brand that had billions of dollars poured into it. Consequences have their own consequences which have their own consequences. Sometimes you'll have no choice other than to chose the lesser of two evils.

Sounds like complicated stuff. I wonder how MS get's anything done over there, they must be completely paralyzed by indecision.

"Dare we release the numbers? No..too dangerous...The consequences have their own consequences...and those consequences have their own consequences...the consequences are spawning...I can't breath. Let's not do it. Too dangerous."

 

[Primethius]

n3ds literally has one exclusive game. I won't defend the lack of a power adapter, that is some bullshit.

It has already been confirmed that psvr is coming with a boost box of sorts.

A 4k Blu-ray version is literally just updating the hdmi to 2.0 and adding hdcp 2.2 support, not tweaking the CPU or gpu.

I could see an upgraded PS4 VR sku that bundles in the aforementioned box, and includes a headset, and adds 4K Blu-ray playback. Also a separate sku that just adds 4k Blu-ray support.

They aren't going to release a ps4 with upgraded CPU and gpu specs with software not supported by a launch ps4. There's a small possibility that they might boost CPU and gpu clocks to allow for minor fps increases, but that's the extent of what might happen. Outside of PSVR, you aren't going to see exclusive software for an upgraded system.

I mean, Cosmic didn't really suggest that the new PS4 play games the older one can't.

 

[hawk2025]

This is just a variant of the appeal to authority falacy.

We should all move on.

 

[AniHawk]

Me neither. It doesn't sound like it was particularly successful.

i think it's the psx. it was a media device that played ps2 games (so, a ps2 with extra features):

nintendo did something similar a bit earlier with the panasonic q:

 

[small44]

I'm pretty sure Sony will launch a new PS4 compatible with Ultra HD Blu-Ray, assuming the current one can't play UHD BD discs, which I think it can't since Blu-Ray Association said that new players are needed.

I don't see the utility of UHD Blu ray now,BR is enough for this gen
BR was supposed to kill DVD but it's still not the case

 

[Donos]

Crazy numbers for the "dying" console industry. Despite PS4 numbers, XB1 did pretty well too, showing a good fight at least in NA.
Shame about TR. Screens in the Console Screenshot thread are really great. One of the best looking console games out there and the impression i read are very positive too. Everything else about the decision which have been made are already discussed to death. Not sure how it will sell on PC and PS4 next year or if it will get another marketing push at all.