Depends on the meaning of bombed. Are the PSV-level sales the same as "bombed" level? If so, then it bombed.
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NPD Sales Results for October 2014 [Up3: All of Nintendo's 3DS million sellers]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Using percentages from J. Harker
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Septembers' figures pointing to a 1m gap + Octobers' estimated 120k gap.
It could be that consumer taste has changed too, the newness of video games being in 3D is gone, new uses of 3D space in gameplay has already been taken by particular series, people settle into their niches, etc. The newness of certain ideas back then could have lead to people reaching out and trying as many kinds of games as they could for themselves, instead of waiting for others to tell them what was cool or acceptable to play. I think that the greater amount of riskier software at retail back then had to do with the hardware power/graphics expectations level of that gen, anyways, the top priced games weren't so vastly ahead of the rest, so a variety of games could be made at a fair pricepoint. If the reason the hardware manufacturers create new consoles and ask customers to transition to a new generation is solely because "it's time for a more powerful processor/GPU" then they're responsible for creating that environment where the most valued software has to meet so many demanding conditions that only a certain audience and what they think is acceptable can support it at the $59.99 pricepoint.
Oh and competition is great, especially last gen, my parent wasn't going to get me that $600 PS3 for my birthday back then, but I was able to start playing the new games last gen because the Xbox 360 was a much more reasonably priced machine, and it came with Viva Pinata to start me off
I'm a PS4 owner, and I recognize that the cheaper Xbox One could make it easier for more people to start transitioning to this new gen too, that's not a bad thing. If more people transition to the new gen, more kinds of games can be made as different audiences build up. And as the hardware gets older, "the latest graphics" won't be the reason the late adopters got the machine, so eventually some of them could be the ones who would have more reasonable expectations regarding the value of graphics over the content of games.I missed the 120k gap for this month.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
True, but Xbone aint selling anywhere close to 1.1m in November or December, I can guarantee that.
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
No, not at all... Sony deserves the success, MS... doesn't, not after all of the things that they tried to get away with... and the things that they've done/said and still are doing/saying.
Nope I'm saying your post in this thread was absurd enough to grant you that Tag you previously stated you desired so very much "months ago". As the proverb goes, be careful what you wish for.
Also no you don't get to absolve yourself of any ill will or legitimate criticism simply because you apologize or use an excuse as tenuous as "English isn't my first language." In case you didn't notice people get called out for saying stupid things here and it tends to stick. Look at how often Amirox's "The age of Sony is done" is still brought up. That was YEARS ago. GAF holds people accountable for the shit they say even if they themselves don't and GAF tends to not forget.
But it's not my say to give you the tag and Harker has pledged for your forgiveness so you've dodged a bullet. That is what I'm saying.
I sincerely hope comments like yours don't cost us the few inside sources we have left for actual sales figures. The fact that it's even a concern infuriates me and should anyone be stupid enough to make comments that do so I will continue to vehemently repudiate them in order to discourage such childish behavior in the future.
shinra-bansho
Member
So am I the only one that likes things a bit cryptic...? It's like a puzzle to solve for X. Maybe it's just my inner geek.
Twitter says that the gap is not quite right regarding the paywall twins, although a 45% and 40% drop respectively would be an 125K gap not 120K anyway. But I wonder if it's way off now.
Also, since it's the only other still viable system we don't have any info on, did the other handheld at least do more than a quarter of Pokemon October?
Twitter says that the gap is not quite right regarding the paywall twins, although a 45% and 40% drop respectively would be an 125K gap not 120K anyway. But I wonder if it's way off now.
How many microconsole failures does that make now?
Also, since it's the only other still viable system we don't have any info on, did the other handheld at least do more than a quarter of Pokemon October?
Welfare
Member
Hmm? Shouldn't the company with the better product deserve success? The product MS has out now is different from the reveal.
theprodigy
Member
funny coincidence how people's first posts in this thread are trying to dig up old stuff to create drama
anyway can we actually confirm PS4/XB1 numbers, the current estimations are pretty fragile
anyway can we actually confirm PS4/XB1 numbers, the current estimations are pretty fragile
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
It is a well known fact that the PS4 tech specs are superior to the ones in the XBO, so i don't get what you're saying. And MS keeps screwing up and twisting the truth to try and mislead people... they haven't stopped doing that at all.
Welfare
Member
Superior tech has never dictated which console won a generation. Price and software have.
By twisting the truth, you mean spin? That's what PR's for.
shinra-bansho
Member
Also, to try and steer the conversation away from the meta a bit...
I'm guessing that all handheld hardware combined sold less this Oct than the PSP did alone in the ~equivalent 2008.
So, where to for dedicated handhelds?
Sony's answer will presumably be exit. And I guess the games as a service model is an attempt to leverage smartphone and tablet's as portals.
But it's still a very important piece of the puzzle for Nintendo's operations. Given the n3DS, with a Western launch still absent, I don't expect we'll see a new handheld until 2016. Where does it go strategically in order to re-attract audiences or at least stem further decline? Upmarket DSLR-style niche route as cameras eventually responded to convergent devices? Or the other direction, as cheap as possible in order to make any future system a more palatable purchase for parents, with software equivalently low priced? Or something completely different, since both have inherent significant drawbacks.
Also, this is conjecture on my part, but I think it's traditionally been an important piece of attracting an audience into gaming [on dedicated hardware] from a younger age i.e. I wouldn't be surprised if many people currently buying PS4s and XBOs got their first taste of gaming on GameBoys. So what does the collapse of the handheld market and migration to substitutes mean in the longer term?
I'm guessing that all handheld hardware combined sold less this Oct than the PSP did alone in the ~equivalent 2008.
So, where to for dedicated handhelds?
Sony's answer will presumably be exit. And I guess the games as a service model is an attempt to leverage smartphone and tablet's as portals.
But it's still a very important piece of the puzzle for Nintendo's operations. Given the n3DS, with a Western launch still absent, I don't expect we'll see a new handheld until 2016. Where does it go strategically in order to re-attract audiences or at least stem further decline? Upmarket DSLR-style niche route as cameras eventually responded to convergent devices? Or the other direction, as cheap as possible in order to make any future system a more palatable purchase for parents, with software equivalently low priced? Or something completely different, since both have inherent significant drawbacks.
Also, this is conjecture on my part, but I think it's traditionally been an important piece of attracting an audience into gaming [on dedicated hardware] from a younger age i.e. I wouldn't be surprised if many people currently buying PS4s and XBOs got their first taste of gaming on GameBoys. So what does the collapse of the handheld market and migration to substitutes mean in the longer term?
Amentallica
Unconfirmed Member
Microsoft is not touching first place, if that's what you're getting at.
Nightengale
Member
Perception of the value delivered by the price and software.
Whether or not superior tech mattered or not, the sales in the past few months have been consistent enough to prove that at the same price point, XB1's overall value perception is lower than the PS4.
Even with a bundled game. (Forza/Madden)
childish behavior such as insulting someone for a post he/she didn't mean no harm?
Keep fighting the good fight.
Honestly I do hope NEOGAF insiders stop posting the damn numbers. When others have to tread lightly around them, it causes disconfort. So in order to avoid that, I hope, I really hope you don't get the numbers anymore.
If they want to share the numbers, do it so in a clear way: Ps4 sold x units, xbox one sold y units...
If they don't want to, then don't post them.
Just like how you and others are free to lash at others for daring to criticize something the insiders did, I'm also free to criticize them for something they did
It irks me that people act that way. If you're not in the mood or feel safe sharing stuff, don't share. Otherwise do it out of good will.
Frankly, I don't need to know the numbers. Just need to know if the system I chose is selling enough to guarantee support for it in the future and both microsoft and sony are sharing some info about it.
Welfare
Member
I wasn't at all. PS4 is the superior product. All Microsoft can do is hope they get a good portion of the 360 user base to upgrade to the One.
theprodigy
Member
I mean, you're talking to a guy who's posted all of this:
Don't worry, they'll take Nov/Dec as well, my hex will make it so
bonus points:
Welfare
Member
Oh yeah. lol
A Human Becoming
More than a Member
Better explanations would be nice. People were throwing around different numbers for a while.
theprodigy
Member
hmm, interesting hypothesis
I wonder if there's been a study on that?
it's not 120k according to Aquamarine, I think it would be better if everyone just waited on that
Why is this good for the consumer, though? Do you think Microsoft would be funding third party games that otherwise wouldn't be made?
edit: Oh, you just mean price drops on hardware.
I would but it's become apparent we're a bit off. Wait for next week.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Remind me, who paid big bucks for time limited exclusive DLC for both CoD and GTA?
I think its hard to argue against a $100 million game with a platform owner dropping $50 million for limited exclusivity / co-marketing deals (made up numbers) gets to actually be a $150 million game on the market, and a competitor has to try and spend as much even if neither game was ever going to sell enough to justify a $150 million price tag.
It's market distorting.
Like Nirolak said earlier in the thread, if your baseline expectation for a $60 videogame is GTA V, where exactly do you have left to go as a studio that isn't making GTA games?
It's interesting to me that you're expressing this viewpoint, because you've previously given me the impression that you believe problems with Nintendo are problems only with Nintendo and not symptomatic of the larger market - not calling you out for having that opinion, just making an observation.
I agree that the decline in handhelds and lack of even real attempts to appeal to younger markets from Sony or MS (and when we discuss handhelds for younger gamers, we really are talking about Nintendo handhelds - the PSP and Vita both skewed towards a "gadget" demographic more than a "my first console" demographic) is bad for future growth.
I compare this to PC versus console gaming (and let's not kid ourselves - certain console gamers are incredibly hostile towards PC gaming at a raw conceptual level), as most of the excuses why consoles are "superior" to PCs are easily applied to mobile gaming versus console gaming.
Keyboard + mouse is so much worse than controllers because I am so much more used to controllers -> touchscreens are so much better than controllers because I am very familiar with using a touchscreen
I dont want to play games sat on an office chair in a study -> I don't want to play games tethered to the living room tv when I can play them anywhere I want whenever I choose to
I don't want to pay $5000 just to play games and then have to pay again to constantly upgrade -> I don't want to buy a dedicated device at all when I already have a phone and get a newer shinier edition for 'free' every 18 months
I think Sony tried last gen pretty admirably to make games for all audiences, but most of them bombed. So they're just going to keep fuckin' that chicken with their existing shootbang/racebang/sportsbang, and in the case of God of War, bangbang crowd until the space just becomes purely unprofitable.
It's already pretty close.
It's already pretty close.
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
So... the fact that i prefer Sony over MS invalidates my points?, that is interesting... care to counter my arguments?, FYI i have never shied away from being known as a Sony guy, however that doesn't automatically render my posts less truthful...
It's up to us to decide who deserves what. We speak with our wallets.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I thought their efforts last gen were a significant step down from their PS2 efforts where we saw EyeToy, Buzz! and SingStar all achieve significant success (speaking from a European point of view, as that's where I am - I can't speak anecdotally about how they fared in the US, but I don't think they exactly bombed over there)
The companies deserve whatever sales they get. Anything more is the drivel of fanboys. Sony is leading this generation because they launched a more compelling product.
Make no mistake that if Sony had the money to throw around like MS, they would.
Nightengale
Member
Well, all of what you mentioned were Phil Harrison's baby, spearheaded by SCEE WWS and London. ( who used to be the biggest studio in the WWS staple)
Yea of course it should, that's why the ps4 is dominating. You mind telling me how the Xbox is different hardware wise from the the reveal besides dropping kinect like a bad habit? It's still vastly inferior on a hardware spec level.
I don't think MS's and Sony's payments for DLC have had any significant effect on game budgets. If a game can earn a billion dollars in revenue, then an extra $50M means very little towards my possible budget.
I also don't think anyone's paying $50M for DLC, but that's neither here nor there. The increase in game budgets isn't due to MS's wallet. It's due to our collective consumer wallet.
Final Verdict
Member
PR is always going to try to put a positive spin on things. Sony does this, Nintendo does this. As long as they aren't flat out lying, I don't really care how they decide to word it.
BTW, these NPD reports they give are meant more for the Investor's sake, not the Gaf community anyways..
Dude, if you don't like the way they give out numbers, then just don't visit the thread, but please don't ruin it for the rest of us!
If you don't care to get the numbers then fine, but there are lots of people here who want something to discuss.
ZehDon
Member
I think Sony absolutely scoped down the production of those types of experiences as we'd identify them, however at the same time they're stepping up with Project Morpheus to deliver something almost entirely new to the console space. I think we'll see some of that less-core stuff coming out again, given that their projects leads discussed how typical experiences generally don't work with Morpheus.
Officerrob
Banned
shinra-bansho
Member
This is more of a longer term thought than whether Nintendo's issues are reflected in the current market and/or nearer term market of this generation, their collapse is still relatively isolated. (And I've actually expressed this viewpoint before.)
The children I'm talking about growing up on substitutes now rather than dedicated devices, playing on their LeapPads, will be in the major target demo of the big publishing houses within around 2 hardware cycles (if there are even 2 more hardware cycles).
I.e. within the console generation, I think it remains to be seen whether the more "traditional" approach repositioning to appeal to broader audiences later in the generation will work, but as it stands the TTM's are indicative of a sustained core audience at least, thus far weathering technology changes. Nintendo's massive rise and fall still stands as somewhat anomalous.
The change to the handheld market has been pretty seismic, but for home systems I expect the impact will be more incremental.
I think it depends on whether large publishers can manage to use the substitutes as the new portal/gateway drug to their dedicated [home] systems.
The development of games as a service as well as forward integration moves by publishers (like EA Access) look like steps preempting the eventual threat to their ability to sell closed hardware and boxed software.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
I see a lot of people saying that but I can't believe it.
It's undeniable how impactful Destiny has been. It's changing the way games are brought to market, a case study in how affective a marketing beta can be. It's the biggest selling new IP of all time, another example that big money behind a big idea can make a long term financial boon.
It did wonders for hardware sales - look how steep both consoles dropped this month without it. It's a million seller on Xbox, despite not being the hero console... Good sign for future shooters for that ecosystem.
Yea it's reputation post launch has not be golden, and dropping nearly what, 85%~ is no joke, but what does that mean really in light of its successes? It's already profitable. assassins creed 1 had even worse of a reputation after launch and has grown into a top 3-4 biggest franchise in those five years.
There are people disappointed in destiny for sure but I don't see any indications this is a one hit wonder
But those efforts bombing says nothing about the efforts themselves (except that they didn't sell well). There was nothing really wrong with the quality of the titles they produced for "all audiences" across all platforms.
EyeToy and Singstar, for the record, are (were?) way bigger in Europe than in the US.
My point is that they tried and failed, so they're probably not going to do much trying again. I suspect some of their issue is of their own doing (product design, entry price, etc) and some is just a general shift in how young people play games since 2001.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Honestly, what games have a potential billion dollars revenue?
That's a sales floor of well over 1.5 million copies sold at full MSRP and most games make nothing close to that.
I am going on anecdotal evidence I can't be specific about here, but I know of people who have worked on projects that had a time limited MS exclusivity, and that exclusivity window and payments entirely paid for the porting costs to other platforms when the window was up, where any other non excluisve title would have had to sink all those costs themselves.
I'm hugely excited about the potential for VR having tried the Oculus Rift v1 out on a couple of games, but I don't see Sony treating Morpheus as a potential mass appeal device having seen how they handled the Move controller, where the 'non-core' titles were - frankly - low budget crap, and the big hudget titles they were already selling to their core like Killzone or Heavy Rain got the biggest pushes.
Officerrob
Banned
Oh stop. The fact that you would feel insulted that someone GAVE you an Xbox One doesn't make you a Sony guy, it makes you weird. Also, how much of a Sony guy are you when you don't even own a PS4 at this point? If your young and can't afford it, I get it, but your extreme cheerleading over something you don't even own is very odd
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
crap double posted instead of editing
EDIT:
I don't know, with the PS3 it felt like they were making less of an effort to develop these new experiences (Wonderbook being the notable exception) than they had in the PS2 days.
It takes significantly more commitment to create new franchises outside of your 'comfort zone' than it does to half-heartedly maintain the ones you've already come up with - but perhaps I'm being unfair, as obviously Kinect and the Guitar Heroes, Rock Bands and Just Dances of the world obviously stepped on the toes of EyeToy and SingStar.
EDIT:
I don't know, with the PS3 it felt like they were making less of an effort to develop these new experiences (Wonderbook being the notable exception) than they had in the PS2 days.
It takes significantly more commitment to create new franchises outside of your 'comfort zone' than it does to half-heartedly maintain the ones you've already come up with - but perhaps I'm being unfair, as obviously Kinect and the Guitar Heroes, Rock Bands and Just Dances of the world obviously stepped on the toes of EyeToy and SingStar.
I was thinking that Destiny drop is huge (and it is), but then I looked at others games and apparently is normal.
Halo Reach dropped from 3.3m to 315k.
you mean you're talking to
ARTIST INTERPRETATION OF LONEDIGITALWOLF PT. 1
ARTIST INTERPRETATION OF LONEDIGITALWOLF PT. 2
Final Verdict
Member
I agree. As much as I hate some of the things they did with Destiny (mostly with the story). I think it has real potential as a series.
vinnygambini
Why are strippers at the U.N. bad when they're great at strip clubs???
I have to hand it to Activision; their marketing team is top-notch - they know their market and how to cater to their audience.
However, I don't think its sequel, Destiny 2, will be as successful as its predecessor. I think one will see a severe drop (same could be said about Titanfall).
It seems most publishers have followed the Hollywood model - condense, lesser releases, bigger budgets, more marketing $ towards them.
lonedigitalwolf
Banned
Yes, i'd feel insulted because the people who know me, for sure know that i dislike MS and all of their... ways, if that makes me weird so be it i don't care.
I don't own a PS4 because i have medical issues that keep me from affording one, i have owned a PSX, PS2, PS3, PSP, PSVITA though... and i love each and everyone of them, my experience with them (and what i've learned from NG, the internet in general and friends who are fortunate enough to have a PS4) has gained Sony my vote of confidence in knowing that i'll enjoy a PS4 once i manage to get my mits on one, i don't think it necessary to own a product in order to prefer it over a rival's offering.
Welfare
Member
Hardware is not different, but the plans MS had had launch had been rectified before launch. Intrusive DRM, Kinect being required, Always online, you know the deal.