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[AniHawk]

i think both ps4 and xb1 have the potential to clear 1m in november. i think xb1 might be down just because last year was super impressive, and ps4 will be up year over year because the branding behind codblops iii and battlefront are pointing to playstation this year. there's that, and the weird situation where the ps4 and xb1 are really big holiday sellers and kind of ho-hum the rest of the year and occasionally impressive. microsoft kinda needs the xb1 to hit 2m for the holiday for it to match your standard 360 year. i think sony has the potential for 5m this calendar year.

i'm also half-wondering if they might just keep the $300 price point after the holidays if it's successful. sony doesn't really need it, but if microsoft makes that move, sony might try and match, especially since 2016's adoption rates will probably be the peak for the 8th generation.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

Wii has the record December sales of 3.8m in Dec-2009. First price cut of $50 for Wii in September followed by Wal-Mart giving a $50 gift card with every system in December combined with plentiful stock on store shelves in December for the Wii for the first time since launch. Perfect storm.

And don't forget the super help of New Super Mario Bros Wii which sold nearly 3 millions only in December NPD and outsold both version of CoD MW2 combined!

 

[Pennywise83]

And don't forget the super help of New Super Mario Bros Wii which sold nearly 3 millions only in December NPD and outsold both version of CoD MW2 combined!

It was funny when Reggie was mocked because he said NSMB Wii would have sold more than COD:MW2... It actually did: 29.51m v. 22.7m.

 

[mo60]

And don't forget the super help of New Super Mario Bros Wii which sold nearly 3 millions only in December NPD and outsold both version of CoD MW2 combined!

I wonder if an exclusive game will ever outsell a cod game ever again.I don't think any exclusive will do it this gen.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

It was funny when Reggie was mocked because he said NSMB Wii would have sold more than COD:MW2... It actually did: 29.51m v. 22.7m.

True, but i talk about December NPD only xD
In December NPD New Super Mario Bros Wii sold 2.82 millions compared to the 2.75 millions of MW2. ( 1.63m 360; 1.12m PS3)

I wonder if an exclusive game will ever outsell a cod game ever again.I don't think any exclusive will do it this gen.

This gen? Nope, even if CoD will decline at < 15 millions by 2018, i still don't see exclusive which can beat it.

Next gen?
Maybe, if the CoD decline will continue, i can see a Sony exclusive outsell it.
And of course the NX, but depend on it's sales, if NX sell in the range 30-50 millions, yes, an exclusive game on NX will definitive outsell a CoD game, since the series is in decline.

 

[Death2494]

That's ok dude. We will see. I honestly really doubt XB1 will be up YOY this November and December, but hey, never say never.

By far the best reponse to his assertions. You can respectfully disagree without sounding pretentious.
OT: XB1 had a combination of great marketing deals and sales that allowed it to perform the way it did. Sony recognized this and didnt want to be caught off guard again. This time around, PS4 has COD:BLOPS(better than AW) and Star WARS marketing deals. Couple both of those with a $100 price drop and its clear that PS4 is in the seat XBOX one was in last year.

 

[EGM1966]

I wonder if an exclusive game will ever outsell a cod game ever again.I don't think any exclusive will do it this gen.

This gen no. Eventually sure: assuming consoles and exclusives are still around!

Actually saying that a heavily bundled Gran Tourismo could be in with an outside chance in guess (GT3 sold over 4 million right?) but I think we're talking a real unlikely turn of events.

 

[slavesnyder]

So MS probably wont be number 1 this Nov or Dec (could be wrong) but at least they will make profit unlike last year. They should be happy with taht.

Without last year's desperate moves and the announced focus on revenue instead of sales, I am sure sales will be lower in Nov and Dec than last year for Xbox.
And after that it will be fun to watch if MS will finally be able to keep a strategy upright for more than 2 months.

All this talk about sales numbers not being important any more reminds me of someone who lost his driving permission and after that tells everyone that he will no longer focus on car driving as cycling is healthier anyway.

 

[Rymuth]

All this talk about sales numbers not being important any more reminds me of someone who lost his driving permission and after that tells everyone that he will no longer focus on car driving as cycling is healthier anyway.

The Fox and the Grapes.

Aesop was on to Microsoft's schtick more than a thousand years ago.

 

[Boke1879]

Without last year's desperate moves and the announced focus on revenue instead of sales, I am sure sales will be lower in Nov and Dec than last year for Xbox.
And after that it will be fun to watch if MS will finally be able to keep a strategy upright for more than 2 months.

All this talk about sales numbers not being important any more reminds me of someone who lost his driving permission and after that tells everyone that he will no longer focus on car driving as cycling is healthier anyway.

Yea this Holiday MS should be focused on profits. Other than that. I don't see what MS can do outside of the holiday season. Especially early next year.

 

[Bgamer90]

Yea this Holiday MS should be focused on profits. Other than that. I don't see what MS can do outside of the holiday season. Especially early next year.

I think we'll see a $350 Halo 5 bundle in January to tie things over for them until Quantum Break releases. Positive QB will get its own bundle too. E3 to the Fall will be their Gears of War 4 push.

 

[Sydle]

Without last year's desperate moves and the announced focus on revenue instead of sales, I am sure sales will be lower in Nov and Dec than last year for Xbox.
And after that it will be fun to watch if MS will finally be able to keep a strategy upright for more than 2 months.

All this talk about sales numbers not being important any more reminds me of someone who lost his driving permission and after that tells everyone that he will no longer focus on car driving as cycling is healthier anyway.

Your analogy is terrible.

Everything considered it indicates to me that the success of the Microsoft gaming division is no longer based on the sales of a single device. Nadella wants Phil to focus on growing Xbox as a service and has set goals in place to measure the success of that effort, which aligns with everything they've said about wanting to evolve the brand to allow customers to play their games on multiple (Windows 10) devices.

 

[DriftingSpirit]

I think we'll see a $350 Halo 5 bundle in January to tie things over for them until Quantum Break releases. Positive that will get its own bundle. E3 to the Fall will be their Gears of War 4 push.

Agreed. They bundled Halo MCC early last year year so a Halo 5 bundle seems pretty likely for early next year.

Perhaps a Halo 5 and Halo MCC bundle to counter Uncharted 4? Or maybe something with Tomb Raider?

 

[Bgamer90]

Agreed. They bundled Halo MCC early last year year so a Halo 5 bundle seems pretty likely for early next year.

Perhaps a Halo 5 and Halo MCC bundle to counter Uncharted 4? Or maybe something with Tomb Raider?

I think we'll still see Tomb Raider bundles in stores after December -- not as many or as long as we saw AC Unity bundles (since it's obvious that MS made a ton of those to try and catch up to be #1 in the U.S.), but a decent amount in stores up until at least February.

MCC + Halo 5 in one bundle would be very smart and easy to do as MCC is very cheap now and has been free in other (older) bundles. It would sort of remind me of the Super Nintendo Super Mario All Stars + Super Mario World bundles. It would be a good move.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Nadella wants Phil to focus on growing Xbox as a service and has set goals in place to measure the success of that effort, which aligns with everything they've said about wanting to evolve the brand to allow customers to play their games on multiple (Windows 10) devices.

That doesn't make sales happening right now a valueless metric. C'mon now.

 

[Ryng_tolu]

By far the best reponse to his assertions. You can respectfully disagree without sounding pretentious.

Very thanks. Remember...

Ryng Tolu is a good guy. is very generous and kind. you can always discuss with him. but when someone bothers him... Ryng Tolu become brutal. and for brutal, i mean brutal.
BRUTAL.

Just remember this.

 

[Sydle]

That doesn't make sales happening right now a valueless metric. C'mon now.

Not valueless, just not as important as the metric(s) aligning closer to an indicator of success in the bigger picture.

It's common in business to choose key performance indicators while tracking many other metrics. When it comes to socializing success within the organization and outside of it I've found it's typical to focus on the agreed upon KPI's. Nadella and Phil agreed upon some new KPI's and I think it's obviously aligned to Nadella's desire (re: his first memo to the company) to take advantage of the Xbox division for mobile gaming, where he has clarified numerous times that it's about taking the experience with you across devices. Sales of a single device doesn't sound like the most important metric given the new aim.

 

[CosmicQueso]

It's common in business to choose key performance indicators while tracking many other metrics. When it comes to socializing success within the organization and outside of it I've found it's typical to focus on the agreed upon KPI's.

There's not one product or organizational performance dashboard that does not include "Sales".

Even if what you're saying is 100% true, and there's no next gen Xbox, but rather a line of W10 devices featuring various UIs (some could even be branded "Xbox" but really just be PCs)... the #1 driver of adoption for Microsoft's next ventures in the Category would be the existing installed base of users.

One component, the primary component in fact, of the existing installed base of users are those users on the Xbox One, the All-in-One Entertainment System from Microsoft.

 

[Sydle]

There's not one product or organizational performance dashboard that does not include "Sales".

Even if what you're saying is 100% true, and there's no next gen Xbox, but rather a line of W10 devices featuring various UIs (some could even be branded "Xbox" but really just be PCs)... the #1 driver of adoption for Microsoft's next ventures in the Category would be the existing installed base of users.

One component, the primary component in fact, of the existing installed base of users are those users on the Xbox One, the All-in-One Entertainment System from Microsoft.

Sales of games and subscription services.

Yep, the install base being recognized by number of Live users.

 

[CosmicQueso]

Sales of games and subscription services.

Yep, the install base being recognized by number of Live users.

PR works, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Sydle]

PR works, ladies and gentlemen.

You're just being thick for no good reason.

They've brought the Xbox division into the fold with the rest of the business and have been explicit about wanting to make Xbox device agnostic. They're moving towards more service-like metrics, like Steam. It makes complete sense when you stop being defensive for 5 seconds and just think it over.

 

[CosmicQueso]

You're just being thick for no good reason.

They've brought the Xbox division into the fold with the rest of the business and have been explicit about wanting to make Xbox device agnostic. They're moving towards more service-like metrics, like Steam. It makes complete sense when you stop being defensive for 5 seconds and just think it over.

Real nice.

When the division reports its financials, it doesn't say "don't worry about revenues or profit, we are reporting users. Wait? What's that? The government won't let us pay taxes with users? And payroll says it can't pay employees with users? Tell them that we are no longer tracking sales because it's outdated. Yeah, KPIs. No... Just tell them money isn't a KPI anymore. Yeah. Okay, call me back."

Btw... What are you accusing me of being defensive over, exactly?

 

[slavesnyder]

As you like my analogies:

It's like a political party commenting on elections results by pointing out numbers of party members and posters printed.

It's fine that internally MS gives a shit about the numbers of consoles they sell. Hey, it's their business and they can lead it with hippie-mentality as they want. I would love to have a job in a company who does not care about sales. How cool is that.

But for now, install base is counted by consoles sold (not shipped even). And install base is measurable and leads to all other things like software sales or subscriptions or bullets fired.
And on NPD-day, they should stick to the theme.

I wonder what would happen if Sony just counters by giving out numbers of the metrics chosen by MS. Maybe suddenly there are other Key numbers appearing that are even more important.

Let's just be honest: They don't want to give out the important numbers because they don't want to be compared.

 

[Chobel]

I think we'll still see Tomb Raider bundles in stores after December -- not as many or as long as we saw AC Unity bundles (since it's obvious that MS made a ton of those to try and catch up to be #1 in the U.S.), but a decent amount in stores up until at least February.

MCC + Halo 5 in one bundle would be very smart and easy to do as MCC is very cheap now and has been free in other (older) bundles. It would sort of remind me of the Super Nintendo Super Mario All Stars + Super Mario World bundles. It would be a good move.

The bundle is already very limited, can't see them producing more of it.

 

[Sydle]

Real nice.

When the division reports its financials, it doesn't say "don't worry about revenues or profit, we are reporting users. Wait? What's that? The government won't let us pay taxes with users? And payroll says it can't pay employees with users? Tell them that we are no longer tracking sales because it's outdated. Yeah, KPIs. No... Just tell them money isn't a KPI anymore. Yeah. Okay, call me back."

Btw... What are you accusing me of being defensive over, exactly?

Defensive over your narrative. I can't imagine why you're holding onto it to the point of crafting some sarcastic chain of events, but it's not worth it.

Obviously Microsoft operates on money like all other businesses. The Xbox division falls within the Windows division now (for over a year now actually), with Phil reporting to the head of Windows, and they've decided to measure its success based on its new role to play in terms of supporting growth of the 3 business pillars as assigned by Nadella--Windows, Office, and Azure. He re-organized every part of the business to support one or more of those pillars, with no other divisions acting as their own separate businesses any longer. It's not hard to connect the dots of the leading growth indicators of game sales and Live users to more Windows usage and Windows Store sales.

I know people don't like change, but the changes they've made are logical and sensible for a service model that's suppose to be helping with the growth of Windows and revenue from its store.

As you like my analogies:

It's like a political party commenting on elections results by pointing out numbers of party members and posters printed.

It's fine that internally MS gives a shit about the numbers of consoles they sell. Hey, it's their business and they can lead it with hippie-mentality as they want. I would love to have a job in a company who does not care about sales. How cool is that.

But for now, install base is counted by consoles sold (not shipped even). And install base is measurable and leads to all other things like software sales or subscriptions or bullets fired.
And on NPD-day, they should stick to the theme.

I wonder what would happen if Sony just counters by giving out numbers of the metrics chosen by MS. Maybe suddenly there are other Key numbers appearing that are even more important.

Let's just be honest: They don't want to give out the important numbers because they don't want to be compared.

Better analogy, but still not great. Posters printed is entirely useless.

The rest of your post falls apart as soon as you recall they're moving towards a service model with Xbox.

The Xbox was treated and measured as its own business based on a single device. That's not what Microsoft wants from it any more, they want more people using Live because they've said it's a high-margin service. They're obviously wanting to expand it beyond a single device, so using the sales of a single device is going to be a small piece of a bigger picture.

Personally I hope at some point they segment the Windows Store sales (Xbox Marketplace now rolls into the Windows Store), but that's probably a ways off until they actually get some good Xbox games in there.

 

[Three]

The rest of your post falls apart as soon as you recall they're moving towards a service model with Xbox.

when does this "service model" come in to play? When should we expect this to influence the sales of software more than install base? Why don't they report install base until this service model takes affect?

Why do you not believe in occam's razor?

They are not reporting sales because they are not that rosy.

 

[Sydle]

when does this "service model" come in to play? When should we expect this to influence the sales of software more than install base? Why don't they report install base until this service model takes affect?

Why do you not believe in occam's razor?

They are not reporting sales because they are not that rosy.

Software helps sell hardware and subscriptions, it's always been that way. Now they're focusing on software to grow the Live user base.

That's as simple as it gets, don't you think?

 

[GobFather]

Software sales hardware and subscriptions, it's always been that way. Now they're focusing on software to grow the Live user base.

That's as simple as it gets, don't you think?

Sony and Nintendo won't have similar services?

 

[Talax]

Defensive over your narrative. I can't imagine why you're holding onto it to the point of crafting some sarcastic chain of events, but it's not worth it.

Obviously Microsoft operates on money like all other businesses. The Xbox division falls within the Windows division now (for over a year now actually), with Phil reporting to the head of Windows, and they've decided to measure its success based on its new role to play in terms of supporting growth of the 3 business pillars as assigned by Nadella--Windows, Office, and Azure. He re-organized every part of the business to support one or more of those pillars, with no other divisions acting as their own separate businesses any longer. It's not hard to connect the dots of the leading growth indicators of game sales and Live users to more Windows usage and Windows Store sales.

I know people don't like change, but the changes they've made are logical and sensible for a service model that's suppose to be helping with the growth of Windows and revenue from its store.

So if xb1 doesn't sell anymore (hypothetically) how does it support windows growth?

 

[Three]

Software sales hardware and subscriptions, it's always been that way. Now they're focusing on software to grow the Live user base.

That's as simple as it gets, don't you think?

Do you mean software sells hardware and subscriptions?

If so then the amount of software they can sell is limited by the hardware sales so is the subscriptions in a way. The live user base number is pointless for determining profit because it is not a unified model across devices. It is not a single "service model". Software is also not a "service model" either. In fact very little is unified into a single service model at the moment. Not the subscriptions nor the software is unified into a service model that's independent of hardware.

Instead of making the rather baseless assumption that sales are no longer important because some time in the future everything will be unified why not just apply the simplest one, they are not reporting sales anymore because they are not favourable anymore. Lots of companies do it.

 

[Boke1879]

Software helps sell hardware and subscriptions, it's always been that way. Now they're focusing on software to grow the Live user base.

That's as simple as it gets, don't you think?

MS aren't sharing hardware numbers because they aren't the best. Sony has no issue sharing them because the numbers are really good. If Sony's numbers weren't rosy they wouldn't share them plain and simple.

 

[EGM1966]

It really is. Idk what went on behind the scenes, but I can't help but think a company that would attempt to outright lie to the public without clearing it with their partner and agreeing on messaging maybe wouldn't be a good company to partner with; especially given how they have treated the title since its exclusivity was shown to be timed. From what I understand, it could have been a been a contender for goty if marketed properly and on multiple platforms.

I played a little on a friends Xbox and yeah, it's pretty damn good from what I experienced. Strong reviews and general word of mouth is good too it seems.

Shame but maybe by end of its odd release cycle it'll have done enough.

One day they'll be an interesting insider article about it all hopefully.

 

[Sydle]

Sony and Nintendo won't have similar services?

Do they also have a CEO that has openly declared a mobile first agenda wanting to make their services device agnostic, with their gaming divisions rolled up underneath their OS umbrella?

So if xb1 doesn't sell anymore (hypothetically) how does it support windows growth?

You're missing the bigger picture. The success of Xbox is no longer based on the sales of a single piece of hardware, it's just a part of the picture going forward. They'll want more devices accessing the service, but it's not the primary measure of success, no single piece of hardware is any more.

 

[Fat4all]

I just noticed the stickers while I was out today.

Wonder if there's a second sticker somewhere in the box explaining the "**"

 

[Sydle]

MS aren't sharing hardware numbers because they aren't the best. Sony has no issue sharing them because the numbers are really good. If Sony's numbers weren't rosy they wouldn't share them plain and simple.

If MS suddenly switches back to sharing hardware numbers as their primary metric then I'll stand corrected. Until then I'll stick with all of the evidence that they are changing their gaming initiatives, going from a stand-alone Xbox business to one that is part and parcel to the success of Windows.

 

[FranXico]

MS aren't sharing hardware numbers because they aren't the best. Sony has no issue sharing them because the numbers are really good. If Sony's numbers weren't rosy they wouldn't share them plain and simple.

In the beginning of last gen, Sony was reporting PS2 and PS3 sales combined.
To this day, Sony still reports sales of PSP and Vita combined where it concerns handhelds.
So yeah, Sony does the exact same thing, it's hardly a surprise.

 

[FranXico]

I just noticed the stickers while I was out today.

Wonder if there's a second sticker somewhere in the box explaining the "**"

It says **Broken link.

Edit: thanks!

The asterisk probably refers to a voucher in the box explaining how BC works (i.e., that you need to download the games, etc.).

 

[Boke1879]

If MS suddenly switches back to sharing hardware numbers as their primary metric then I'll stand corrected. Until then I'll stick with all of the evidence that they are changing their gaming initiatives, going from a stand-alone Xbox business to one that is part and parcel to the success of Windows.

If MS had a great Quarter with the Xbox 1. You can bet your ass they'll share those numbers.

 

[jroc74]

In the beginning of last gen, Sony was reporting PS2 and PS3 sales combined.
To this day, Sony still reports sales of PSP and Vita combined where it concerns handhelds.
So yeah, Sony does the exact same thing, it's hardly a surprise.

I was thinking the exact same thing. Sony just had nothing else to really deflect to.

I think still doing that for PSP and Vita says it all.

If MS had a great Quarter with the Xbox 1. You can bet your ass they'll share those numbers.

You can also bet if the roles were reversed they would still be talking about hardware numbers.

All this reminds me when Apple switched from talking about market share after passing BB in marketshare to talking about profits when Android passed them in marketshare.

They switched talking points for a reason. And this is from a company that has its new smartphone always outsell the previous version...since it launched....IIRC. And of couse they do talk about that. But marketshare is all of a sudden on the back burner or missing.

 

[Bgamer90]

The bundle is already very limited, can't see them producing more of it.

Yeah, and I think we'll see leftovers just like those leftover Unity bundles last year though for not as long.

____________

I just noticed the stickers while I was out today.

Wonder if there's a second sticker somewhere in the box explaining the "**"

I said a few days after the feature was announced that MS should do this. Not sure how much it will help but it's better than not having anything on the box mentioning that users can play some games from the top selling console in the U.S. last gen.

 

[Fat4all]

It says **Broken link.

Fixed, mobile Imgur was messing with me.

 

[CosmicQueso]

"My narrative". "People don't like change".

Wow. Just... Wow. Okay.

My "narrative" is that hardware sales are meaningful in measuring a potential audience in 2015.

I'm defensive over this narrative because I fear change and am sarcastic because of it.

Hardware sales no longer matter, nor do Windows installs or attach rates or tie ratios.

This is a new one.

 

[Chaostar]

I was gonna ask when the November prediction thread would go up but watching Paco have his house of cards knocked down only to rebuild it exactly the same repeatedly is gonna keep me lurking here for a while lol

Spoiler

Seriously though when?

 

[Blackleg-sanji1]

Was trying to wonder what happen that this thread was moving alil fast still...lol i know why now

 

[Three]

If MS suddenly switches back to sharing hardware numbers as their primary metric then I'll stand corrected. Until then I'll stick with all of the evidence that they are changing their gaming initiatives, going from a stand-alone Xbox business to one that is part and parcel to the success of Windows.

This will only happen if sales are favourable. You might have to wait a long time, if or when there is another console even.
Can I ask what has changed since Windows 8? This same unified platform, unified store, unified kernel talk was a part of that "future" too. When do you expect this shift? Why do you believe a very useful metric such as sales of hardware is not being reported now especially since software sales and subscriptions are very much hardware dependent at the moment?

 

[Sydle]

Do you mean software sells hardware and subscriptions?

If so then the amount of software they can sell is limited by the hardware sales so is the subscriptions in a way. The live user base number is pointless for determining profit because it is not a unified model across devices. It is not a single "service model". Software is also not a "service model" either. In fact very little is unified into a single service model at the moment. Not the subscriptions nor the software is unified into a service model that's independent of hardware.

Instead of making the rather baseless assumption that sales are no longer important because some time in the future everything will be unified why not just apply the simplest one, they are not reporting sales anymore because they are not favourable anymore. Lots of companies do it.

Nobody buys hardware for any other reason than the software and/or services it provides.

They said that Live is a high-margin service when they announced the metric. Did you ever stop to notice that most of the games on the way from Microsoft have some significant online component, many of them with multiplayer features? Sorry, that's a rhetorical question. Of course you've noticed, how could you not.

Games are software. There are games that are software as a service.

Some parts of it are unified. I can buy games from the Windows Store with my Microsoft Account, which has a gamertag, that brings all of my games into a single profile.

They have games coming that are available across devices to help serve the service model. Fable Legends and KI are both cross-platform/cross-buy, and they've said more are on the way. Some Xbox exec just recently said the goal is to have all games available on Windows 10 regardless of the device.

If you want a team to shift their way of thinking you don't continue to hold them to a metric that is counter to their new aim. If hardware was the primary success metric then it would make absolutely no sense to make games device agnostic and they shouldn't be spending any time developing the Xbox service for other Windows 10 devices. That's not the case.

This is so simple. I feel like you guys have just dug in your heels so much that you're not willing to budge. That's fine. Ignore the obvious, it won't make a bit of difference as the world changes around you.

 

[Talax]

Do they also have a CEO that has openly declared a mobile first agenda wanting to make their services device agnostic, with their gaming divisions rolled up underneath their OS umbrella?



You're missing the bigger picture. The success of Xbox is no longer based on the sales of a single piece of hardware, it's just a part of the picture going forward. They'll want more devices accessing the service, but it's not the primary measure of success, no single piece of hardware is any more.

Ok inversed question: What's so great about XB service that a W10 only user who does not use the console gain from it? If we're not using install base as a factor of success then how does their service gain growth? As far as I know (I may be wrong of course, having never used it on PC) but the biggest feature in W10 Xbox app is streaming from the XB1, which again brings us back to "the bigger the XB1 install base, the greater the users". What's so enticing here that will grow XBL users?

 

[CosmicQueso]

Man, I've read a lot of dumb shit on GAF over the years.

This is next level stuff right here.

 

[Chobel]

Nobody buys hardware for any other reason than the software and/or services it provides.

They said that Live is a high-margin service when they announced the metric. Did you ever stop to notice that most of the games on the way from Microsoft have some significant online component, many of them with multiplayer features? Sorry, that's a rhetorical question. Of course you've noticed, how could you not.

Games are software. There are games that are software as a service.

Some parts of it are unified. I can buy games from the Windows Store with my Microsoft Account, which has a gamertag, that brings all of my games into a single profile.

They have games coming that are available across devices to help serve the service model. Fable Legends and KI are both cross-platform/cross-buy, and they've said more are on the way. Some Xbox exec just recently said the goal is to have all games available on Windows 10 regardless of the device.

If you want a team to shift their way of thinking you don't continue to hold them to a metric that is counter to their new aim. If hardware was the primary success metric then it would make absolutely no sense to make games device agnostic and they shouldn't be spending any time developing the Xbox service for other Windows 10 devices. That's not the case.

This is so simple. I feel like you guys have just dug in your heels so much that you're not willing to budge. That's fine. Ignore the obvious, it won't make a bit of difference as the world changes around you.

You mean like every other publisher in the industry now? MP component mostly has to do with lowering the second sales and monetizing the install base of the game.

 

[Sydle]

This will only happen if sales are favourable. You might have to wait a long time, if or when there is another console even.
Can I ask what has changed since Windows 8? This same unified platform, unified store, unified kernel talk was a part of that "future" too. When do you expect this shift? Why do you believe a very useful metric such as sales of hardware is not being reported now especially since software sales and subscriptions are very much hardware dependent at the moment?

Do you recall Windows 8 and Windows RT? How about that the Xbox division created their own forked OS? Microsoft claimed it was unified, and on some level it was, but Windows 10 has taken it further.

Well they've been talking about bringing more games to all Windows 10 devices since GDC earlier this year. We know KI, Fable Legends, Gears Ultimate, Sea of Thieves, and Halo Wars 2 are on the way, and they've recently claimed the goal is to make all games available on Windows 10. Phil mentioned they'd like to get Xbox 360 games on PC as well, but there's nothing to announce right now.

I'd say operationally the shift has happened, with the team having set its sights on development for the larger Xbox platform for a while now. Phil said the reason games they announced recently like Recore, Scalebound, and Halo are Xbox only right now is because they started development as Xbox One only games, so he didn't want the teams to have to rescope everything.

When games typically take 2-3 years to make we can't expect everything to just make the shift, but they've been clear that device-agnostic is where it's going. I'm actually a little disappointed that they haven't applied their device AND OS agnostic approach to Xbox like all the other parts of MS. Hopefully one day though.

Ok inversed question: What's so great about XB service that a W10 only user who does not use the console gain from it? If we're not using install base as a factor of success then how does their service gain growth? As far as I know (I may be wrong of course, having never used it on PC) but the biggest feature in W10 Xbox app is streaming from the XB1, which again brings us back to "the bigger the XB1 install base, the greater the users". What's so enticing here that will grow XBL users?

Nothing as of right now. They haven't released any of their Xbox games on it yet.

Eventually? They've said they're going to bring all of their games to the Windows Store, so you can play them on any Windows 10 device you want. Personally, I like the idea of buying less hardware. I could get my Steam games and Xbox games on one piece of hardware.

Man, I've read a lot of dumb shit on GAF over the years.

This is next level stuff right here.

Why don't you try adding something useful to the discussion? Which part went over your head?

You mean like every other publisher in the industry now? MP component mostly has to do with lowering the second sales and monetizing the install base of the game.

And for MS what do you think is another benefit they get from getting more online players?