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[BenjaminBirdie]

Because there are like ten times more of them than there are hardcore gamers.

That's also true.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Yet the industry itself is growing at a very nice clip. As I said, MS will never win the hardware number game in the long run, but it is generating an enormous amount of money for other six or seven corporations in the industry that don't produce hardware.

You can keep trumpeting the hardware sales and keep downplaying MS' performance in that arena, because it clearly is no match for Nintendo's efforts here. There's no denying that. But the 360 is clearly the go-to source of revenue for Ubisoft, EA, 2K, Eidos, Activision, etc, etc, etc.

But the cost is probably alot higher so the profit margin isnt as high as during the ps2 era. Then you get the occasional $30M bombas.

 

[avatar299]

true -- appealing to both casuals and hardcore gamers. reggie must be jealous.

:lol

 

[Of All Trades]

Uhhh. No. It isn't implying anything like that.

Do you believe the DS isn't moving any games? The PSP? The PS2? You're assuming you know the whole sales chart on the basis of the top ten, which is a terrible assumption.

No, because DS, PSP, and most PS2 games are around the $20 region, which means that it's much harder for them to crack the top 10. Wii games do not get that luxury.

So wait, not MP3 is counted as being bad for 3rd parties? So if it had done 500K could I have used it as example to 3rd parties about software selling on the Wii?

If MP3 had sold you could at least claim the market might exist for 3rd party games.

And you're last "point" is just absolutely ridiculous. Ridiculous and lacking in any sense of logic.

Really? So if 500k+ consoles sold in one month, and the highest selling "real" game (not an accessory) only sold to new buyers and still is less than 1/3 of that new buyer group, then what in the hell else was purchased? We know Madden sold 58k. Even if MP8 and Strikers both managed 100k (unlikely), that means you need almost 100k in other sales from lower rung titles to break fucking even with new owners, let alone the existing base of 5M or so.

 

[3rdman]

Right now, somewhere, a publisher is looking at these sales charts and thinking that maybe that exclusive PS3 game really shouldn't be.

This NPD result reminds me of the time that GTA3 hit...All that did was sell lots and lots of PS2s and left the Xbox in the dust. Well, it looks like the foots on the other hand now, hey Capt. Murdoch!??!

 

[KeithFranklin]

Does Nintendo really care? I remember there was a big thread here about why MP3 wasn't selling more or why there wasn't more marketing... these aren't the type of games Nintendo is concerned with pushing anymore.

I love these Nintendo doesnt want to sell there software quotes.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

oh, too bad Reggie. Guess Halo was something worth combating

So that a few thousand of the new X360 owners would've instead... bought some of the Wiis not available?

Those Wii software numbers suck. How can system consistenly sell 400k-500k and it's biggest selling title is Wii Play.

Nothing against Halo 3, but a system can be doing fine on software without a particular standout. The vast majority of all releases never see the top 10. I'm sure more Wii software has been sold than had been on X360 a year prior.

Wow...look at the Nintendo fans...not one positive thing to say about anything not Nintendo.

It's embarrassing

You'll see what you want to see.

I wonder when sony will lower the number of PS2s they are shipping. The PS2 is helping to kill the PS3. I've been saying it for months and will keep saying it.

As long as PS3 is getting killed, it's in their best interest to be among the group of killers, too.

Has the PS3 sold 3.3 million of software in the US, all titles combined, since launch???

Based on what we've heard of the tie ratio previously, it's probably around 6 million by now?

So, PS3 is pretty much gamecube'd huh.

At these rates, perhaps the $400 model will boost it to GameCube levels.

Depends on how you look at it . . . the Wii could be considered a failure . . . it sells over 500K units of h/w but can only get a single game in the top 10 software?

Unless it's a particular company's game in the top 10, how many on a given system make the top 10 wouldn't seem to make a big difference. There will never be more than ten games in the top 10, but for total software sales the sky is the limit.

For the month of September according to NPD, Xbox 360 software represented 74 percent of total software sales for the next generation market compared to 17 percent for Wii and 9 percent for PS3. Even without the sales of “Halo 3” the Xbox 360 portfolio outsold the PS3 portfolio 2:1.

This allows us to do some extrapolation. If non-H3 X360 software sold 2:1 with PS3 software, that would leave the breakdown approximately...
9% PS3
17% Wii
18% non-H3 X360
56% Halo 3

If Halo 3 was 3.3 million, then total software sales were 5.9 million, or
0.5 million PS3
1.0 million Wii
1.1 million non-Halo 3 X360
3.3 million Halo 3

 

[Maxwell House]

I still don't see why everyone is saying Wii is dominating over 360. Yes, Wii sells more hardware..but isn't what matters software sales???

360 is dominating Wii in software (and PS3). That is what counts, IMO, and I believe that is what 3rd party developers look at as well.

For some odd reason, Wii has a really bad software attach ratio.

Edit: I just looked it up. 360 has sold a little over 45% more software units than Wii this year in the US and 130% more LTD.

360 has sold 238% more software than PS3 in 2007.

 

[Evlar]

No, because DS, PSP, and most PS2 games are around the $20 region, which means that it's much harder for them to crack the top 10. Wii games do not get that luxury.

Top ten is by units sold, not by dollars. So... the price of the games has nothing to do with their ranking on this list.

 

[D O W N]

hahahaha, awesome.

Did that cost 30 million to make though?

+$20 million, according to Gamespot:


'When you have a budget of over $20 million and spend almost 3 years in development it’s almost inexcusable for this to be the final result. '

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/lair/player_review.html?id=496963

I'm still kinda sore from being hit by the hype train on that one.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Right now, somewhere, several publishers are looking at these sales charts and thinking that maybe that exclusive PS3 game really shouldn't be.

Fixed.

But I still think it's too early to say that. I think the PS3 will still have plenty of big exclusives (FF, MGS etc).

 

[titiklabingapat]

I still don't see why everyone is saying Wii is dominating over 360. Yes, Wii sells more hardware..but isn't what matters software sales???

360 is dominating Wii in software (and PS3). That is what counts, IMO, and I believe that is what 3rd party developers look at as well. I believe that for 2007, 360 has sold at least 50% more software than Wii.

For some odd reason, Wii has a really bad software attach ratio.

Bad? It's hardly the PSP and they weren't even counting Wii Sports.

 

[rakka]

:lol

lol halo 3 only appeals to hardcore rite

For some odd reason, Wii has a really bad software attach ratio.

for some odd reason, wii has a really bad software lineup.

 

[djblackice]

"Halo 3 sold 3.3 million units.

Last month, the Xbox 360 sold 276.7K units; this month, it sold 527.8K units. That's an increase of 251.1K units.

3.3 million units of the most hyped game ever only pushed 251.1K 360s more out the door than last month. That means about 92% of all the people who bought Halo already had a 360.

That is barely a system-mover. That is a tiny spike. Now that the initial sales blitz has worn off and Halo sales slow down, I highly doubt the 360 will see a month even CLOSE to this one. It would appear that most Halo fans already had a 360 to begin with. It wasn't truly convincing those who didn't own one already."

Is this correct?

 

[schuelma]

No, because DS, PSP, and most PS2 games are around the $20 region, which means that it's much harder for them to crack the top 10. Wii games do not get that luxury.

If MP3 had sold you could at least claim the market might exist for 3rd party games.


Really? So if 500k+ consoles sold in one month, and the highest selling "real" game (not an accessory) only sold to new buyers and still is less than 1/3 of that new buyer group, then what in the hell else was purchased? We know Madden sold 58k. Even if MP8 and Strikers both managed 100k (unlikely), that means you need almost 100k in other sales from lower rung titles to break fucking even with new owners, let alone the existing base of 5M or so.

Zelda sold great. SPM sold very well. RE4 is selling great.

There is a market.

And what I mean re: your last point was your logic that Madden Wii must have been the next highest Wii game. It's completely idiotic.

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

Once again Metroid Prime 3 will still outsell Metroid Prime 1.

This non existant Gamecube demographic still pusshed games like Zelda, Wario Ware, and Super Paper Mario on the console. Also Mario Party did pretty well.


What does a third party think? Well getting on board of this gens winner is something. No one is disputing that the X360 is the software king in USA. Were just disputing that good sales arent possible on the Wii.

You are naming first party games. Did you read that PR release from Major Nelson?

http://majornelson.com/

PS3 and Wii had ZERO third party titles in the top ten console title list for the month, while Xbox 360 weighed in with 3. Since November, third party partners have seen their titles hit the top ten 27 times for Xbox 360, compared to 2 for PS3 and 1 for Wii.

That is what I mean and that is way more important than anything else in this thread. Software sales. Why should 3rd party care if Nintendo is making money for Nintendo. 90% of all 3rd party games that chart in the top 10 have been on the 360. Software sales is what drives this industry, and as I stated eariler, 3rd party is the most valuable commodity to have.

 

[bry-bry]

You don't compete with nintendo by copying them.. You have to provide something that they don't provide.

they would have been better off to make an exclusive traditional sims game, designed specificly for the wii with will wright supervision.

Basicly, if you want to get the extreme hardcore nintendo fans (mario zelda people) to buy your games, you have to get all the way in the pool.. You can't dabble and experiment. You have to make a full blown blockbuster type game for the system with top talent and all that jazz, and even then, sales can be a tricky buisness... Sometimes great games bomb on any platform (okami for example)

Nintendo is the only group that can reach the wii-sports market. Publishers should just leave that alone. There is also another market on the wii.. I guess you could call them budget gamers.. People who own a ps2 but can't afford to upgrade to the ps3 or 360... I'm not sure how big their numbers are, and I'm not sure how you target them.

Eventually the gamers will start to follow the games, and it will get simpler.. Something like monster hunter 3 will bring over a certain group of fans that can be targeted with other software in different genre's.. Same thing would happen if DQ10 was announced for wii.. You could pretty much gaurentee that the hardcore RPG market would be present.

edit// but just to clarify.. I am starting to worry about the wii and 3rd party sales. I think too many of the current wii buyers are wii sports people, and those people simply aren't going to buy many games.

The wii needs major franchise defections to draw over the userbases of those franchises and build a userbase for different genre's of 3rd party games. That's not happening fast enough, and it could pose a problem in the long run.

Good points. I would have guessed that MySims is more of a play towards casual Wii owners than the Nintendo hardcore, though. You almost have to wonder why any publisher not named Nintendo would sink major resources into a Wii title -especially a new IP- given the results so far (Ubisoft launch titles not withstanding.)

 

[legend166]

+$20 million, according to Gamespot:


'When you have a budget of over $20 million and spend almost 3 years in development it’s almost inexcusable for this to be the final result. '

http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/action/lair/player_review.html?id=496963

I'm still kinda sore from being hit by the hype train on that one.

Stranglehold is still winning ;P

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

"Halo 3 sold 3.3 million units.

Last month, the Xbox 360 sold 276.7K units; this month, it sold 527.8K units. That's an increase of 251.1K units.

3.3 million units of the most hyped game ever only pushed 251.1K 360s more out the door than last month. That means about 92% of all the people who bought Halo already had a 360.

That is barely a system-mover. That is a tiny spike. Now that the initial sales blitz has worn off and Halo sales slow down, I highly doubt the 360 will see a month even CLOSE to this one. It would appear that most Halo fans already had a 360 to begin with. It wasn't truly convincing those who didn't own one already."

Is this correct?

No, you are way off

 

[schuelma]

Good points. I would have guessed that MySims is more of a play towards casual Wii owners than the Nintendo hardcore, though. You almost have to wonder why any publisher not named Nintendo would sink major resources into a Wii title -especially a new IP- given the results so far (Ubisoft launch titles not withstanding.)

Sigh. Please tell me how we can tell that major 3rd party titles won't sell when no one has yet to try!

 

[Sharp]

You are naming first party games. Did you read that PR release from Major Nelson?

http://majornelson.com/



That is what I mean and that is way more important than anything else in this thread. Software sales. Why should 3rd party care if Nintendo is making money for Nintendo. 90% of all 3rd party games that chart in the top 10 have been on the 360. Software sales is what drives this industry, and as I stated eariler, 3rd party is the most valuable commodity to have.

I agree, but the whole "top ten" dynamic is really just an unfortunate consequence of the NPD crackdown. It's a kind of unrealistic look at the market, though to be honest I think Wii third party sales would look even worse if we had access to the full software numbers.

 

[Maxwell House]

I believe a pretty substantial portion of Wii owners will buy at most 2-3 titles for the system over its entire lifetime.

There are plenty of owners who just want Wii Sports, and are satisfied.

360 owners, otoh, seem like hardcore game buyers.

 

[quest]

Nothing against Halo 3, but a system can be doing fine on software without a particular standout. The vast majority of all releases never see the top 10. I'm sure more Wii software has been sold than had been on X360 a year prior.

The 360 has been putting games in the top 10 of the NPD since day 1. Look at last year stuff like saints row and dead rising sold great. The 360 has been a monster at selling software since its birth. The Wii has yet to come close to being the software selling platform the 360 is excluding wii play/wii sports.

 

[Evlar]

I believe a pretty substantial portion of Wii owners will buy at most 2-3 titles for the system over its entire lifetime.

There are plenty of owners who just want Wii Sports, and are satisfied.

360 owners, otoh, seem like hardcore game buyers.

Wii attach ratio last we heard was about 5.5 (not counting Wii Sports). That's about normal.

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

PS3 and Wii had ZERO third party titles in the top ten console title list for the month, while Xbox 360 weighed in with 3. Since November, third party partners have seen their titles hit the top ten 27 times for Xbox 360, compared to 2 for PS3 and 1 for Wii.

That is what I mean and that is way more important than anything else in this thread. Software sales. Why should 3rd party care if Nintendo is making money for Nintendo. 90% of all 3rd party games that chart in the top 10 have been on the 360. Software sales is what drives this industry, and as I stated eariler, 3rd party is the most valuable commodity to have.

That is just an unfuckingbelievable statistic.

I'm curious if hardware sales or software sales generate the most revenue for the industry.

 

[Gahiggidy]

I still don't see why everyone is saying Wii is dominating over 360. Yes, Wii sells more hardware..but isn't what matters software sales???

360 is dominating Wii in software (and PS3). That is what counts, IMO, and I believe that is what 3rd party developers look at as well. I believe that for 2007, 360 has sold at least 50% more software than Wii.

For some odd reason, Wii has a really bad software attach ratio.

So this is the new excuse? Xbox isn't #2 anymore? Its now all about the software? Are Microsoft and friends going to claim from here on out to have the #1 spot based on total software sales?


Fact is, Microsoft doesn't even report its total software sales in its earnings reports. They even stopped reporting region-specific hardware sales in the past year. In about a week, we'll know exactly how much software Wii has sold, region by region, quarter by quarter, when Nintendo releases their earnings report.

 

[Linkup]

The only real complaint you can have with the 360 software sells is the lack of variety.

 

[farnham]

no no no

EA experimenting with games like SSX Blur, MySims or Boogie isnt a bad thing at all..

of course the games werent good and sold horribly.. but is this going to happen with SSX BLur 2, MySims 2 and Boogie 2..?

No EA will improve on the stuff they put out like they always do..

 

[goldenpp72]

Is it unreasonable to assume that many halo fans will still be buying 360s into october, you know, ones who didn't already have the console?

 

[Evlar]

The 360 has been putting games in the top 10 of the NPD since day 1. Look at last year stuff like saints row and dead rising sold great. The 360 has been a monster at selling software since its birth. The Wii has yet to come close to being the software selling platform the 360 is excluding wii play/wii sports.

And MP8, and Zelda, and RE4.

 

[avatar299]

lol halo 3 only appeals to hardcore rite


for some odd reason, wii has a really bad software lineup.

the definition of a casual gamer changes on a dime. Especially when it involves Halo

Nice to know Halo 3 appeals to the Sims player, the WoW player, the Bejeweled player, the wii sports player, etc etc..

 

[Grecco]

You are naming first party games. Did you read that PR release from Major Nelson?


That is what I mean and that is way more important than anything else in this thread. Software sales. Why should 3rd party care if Nintendo is making money for Nintendo. 90% of all 3rd party games that chart in the top 10 have been on the 360. Software sales is what drives this industry, and as I stated eariler, 3rd party is the most valuable commodity to have.

What were you talking again? You specifically mentioned that the Wii demographic was not the Gamecube demographic because MP "bombed".

If part of the Wii demographic wasnt Nitendo fans then those games would have also bombed. Thats what you said right.


On third party. We know the 360 is the king but its not a sure fire thing either 1.See Stranglehold and Eternal Sonata and 2. The Wii still does not have the level of support of the Xbox. Ports and half assed games dont count. Dont expect stuff like Reel King to sell. Complain about it when a legitimate third party game bombs like Zak and Wikki (it will).

Finally if anything the only one who will end up loosing is Sony imo. Why would Third partys bother porting X360 games to the console when they end up bombing anyways? Stuff like Skate for isntance. The Wii wont take 360 developtment away, but make no mistake Wiis sales will increase third party support.

 

[3rdman]

"Halo 3 sold 3.3 million units.

Last month, the Xbox 360 sold 276.7K units; this month, it sold 527.8K units. That's an increase of 251.1K units.

3.3 million units of the most hyped game ever only pushed 251.1K 360s more out the door than last month. That means about 92% of all the people who bought Halo already had a 360.

That is barely a system-mover. That is a tiny spike. Now that the initial sales blitz has worn off and Halo sales slow down, I highly doubt the 360 will see a month even CLOSE to this one. It would appear that most Halo fans already had a 360 to begin with. It wasn't truly convincing those who didn't own one already."

Is this correct?

WOW That reads like a Nintendo fan typing through tears...

 

[LukeSmith]

So what did Besada do to get banned? Did Indie's meltdown get him banned yet? What's the latest hotness?

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

The only real complaint you can have with the 360 software sells is the lack of variety.

You can't really.

Guitar Hero II has been one of the console's biggest sellers since it was released for the 360. Just to pick a title at random, skate. also did very well for the console. As did Madden. And PGR4 in its UK debut in the top spot.

 

[quest]

And MP8, and Zelda, and RE4.

So the Wii has 3 good selling titles in almost a year? So 1 budget priced 3rd party game and 2 nintendo first party titles. It was every month the 360 had a good selling title. Games like ghost recon AW fight night madden oblivion ect ect.

 

[Slavik81]

I seem to remember 67k in it's first month or something. IGN posted it.

Ah yes. ******** has numbers. (EDIT: Apparently, the numbers are from a banned site). It's sold maybe 150k worldwide... I don't really understand why, but there are plenty of 3rd party Wii games that outsold it. Tiger Woods '07 and Sonic did fine...

 

[Mooreberg]

I love these Nintendo doesnt want to sell there software quotes.

Of course they want to sell software, but does it really matter if MP3 is the one to do it? They didn't seem to worry too much about Metroid Prime 2 selling less than the original. This isn't a make or break franchise for them.

 

[RPS37]

360 HALO 3* MICROSOFT (CORP) 1 3.3 million
WII PLAY W/ REMOTE NINTENDO OF AMERICA 2 282K
NDS LEGEND OF ZELDA: PHANTOM HOURGLASS NINTENDO OF AMERICA 3 224K
PS2 MADDEN NFL 08 ELECTRONIC ARTS 4 205K
360 SKATE ELECTRONIC ARTS 5 175K
360 MADDEN NFL 08 ELECTRONIC ARTS 6 173K
WII METROID PRIME 3: CORRUPTION NINTENDO OF AMERICA 7 167K
360 BIOSHOCK TAKE 2 INTERACTIVE (CORP) 8 150K
NDS BRAIN AGE 2: MORE TRAINING IN MINUTES A NINTENDO OF AMERICA 9 141K
PS3 HEAVENLY SWORD SONY (CORP) 10 139K

I can remember seeing TV commercials multiple times for all of these games, except for Wii Play.

 

[avatar299]

That is what I mean and that is way more important than anything else in this thread. Software sales. Why should 3rd party care if Nintendo is making money for Nintendo. 90% of all 3rd party games that chart in the top 10 have been on the 360. Software sales is what drives this industry, and as I stated eariler, 3rd party is the most valuable commodity to have.

So.... only games that crack the top 10 are profitable?

 

[Evlar]

So the Wii has 3 good selling titles in almost a year? So 1 budget priced 3rd party game and 2 nintendo first party titles. It was every month the 360 had a good selling title. Games like ghost recon AW fight night madden oblivion ect ect.

Wii has had like eight million sellers. Those are just three of the ones who charted in the top ten in a month.

 

[schuelma]

Again, I'll ask a simple question- from this month only, what 3rd party "real" Wii game should have charted in the top 10.

Simple question

 

[Maxwell House]

Not in my opinion 2007 will be determined by total sales for the year. Microsoft is not gonna win that race at this pace. The Wii looks to win 2007 with total sales. Especially if you include all territories worldwide.

360 will win software sale for 2007 hands down among the next gen consoles. It isn't even a close race.

Software sales are more important than hardware sales.

 

[bill0527]

for some odd reason, wii has a really bad software lineup.

Yet still owns everything else when it comes to hardware sales.

It makes no sense at all, other than to understand that Nintendo has captured mindshare this generation. People want a Wii because its the cool thing to have. It doesn't really matter if the Wii is a good console, great console, or it flat out sucks compared to its competition. It doesn't matter if the vast majority of the games on the console are god-awful terrible. Once you get that mindshare, its like opening up the vault at Ft. Knox and then diving right in.

 

[farnham]

Again, I'll ask a simple question- from this month only, what 3rd party "real" Wii game should have charted in the top 10.

Simple question

was there even a decent release.. dewy maybe..?

 

[Kai]

Am I the only one that thinks people are overreacting at the sales of Halo 3 and how it co-relates to the hardware purchasing consumer?

3.3 MILLION software units sold in that month and rougly ~300k more hardware units are moved in that month?

Yes, I know it will only increase in November and December, but it is not the most amazing thing in the world.... they still have a long way to go in order for the 360 to be considered mass market......

Don't get me wrong, I think the 360 is doing great and wow the PS3 is in trouble.... the Wii is in a world of its own so I am not comparing that to the two next gen systems. But it is still 1-2 years away before the 360 truly hits mass market.

 

[bry-bry]

Sigh. Please tell me how we can tell that major 3rd party titles won't sell when no one has yet to try!

Well, like I implied, Ubisoft did quite well with their launch titles, one of which was a new IP. Perhaps it's just a case of launch-hungry Wii owners, or a lack of effort from 3rd parties since then. It's probably a lot of factors, but it is still a bad sign for a console with such incredible sales and momentum.

 

[schuelma]

Yet still owns everything else when it comes to hardware sales.

It makes no sense at all, other than to understand that Nintendo has captured mindshare this generation. People want a Wii because its the cool thing to have. It doesn't really matter if the Wii is a good console, great console, or it flat out sucks compared to its competition. It doesn't matter if the vast majority of the games on the console are god-awful terrible. Once you get that mindshare, its like opening up the vault at Ft. Knox and then diving right in.

Yup- some luck, some good marketing, Wii Sports=a genuine phenomenon. I thought it would do well...but I never thought it would sell 500K in September without any major releases.

 

[Evlar]

360 will win software sale for 2007 hands down among the next gen consoles. It isn't even a close race.

Software sales are more important than hardware sales.

Good for them. 360 also had more software releases, more dollars invested in development and in advertising, and a larger install base. We're proving that investments reap rewards.

 

[djblackice]

It was taken from the ******* comments section. It seems to work but thanks for letting me know.


I'm just happy the gaming industry is booming. Better for all gamers.