DeaDPo0L84
Member
Me before watching: "we already know where this story goes so they can't really mess it up"
Now: "whelp"
Now: "whelp"
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DKehoe
Member
Why would they need some sort of legal framework to say some books are no longer canon? It's not like they are gonna sue themselves over it. Did they really have to file some kind of paperwork declaring the change in canon? Can you elaborate further on what went into that process? Surely it's just a decision made behind the scenes to rebrand some things and make things line up with whatever they have planned for the future.
My point was just that fixating on what is or isn't canon is ultimately a meaningless exercise, particularly when it's causing you to feel compelled to watch something you hate because it's "objectively canon."
BlackTron
Member
There was no special process that went into Disney declaring this change in canon. There was only the first step where they purchased the right to change it in ALL OF STAR WARS. Whenever and however they want, no matter how bad the decision is.
Feeling compelled to watch something because it's "objectively canon" is your own prerogative. Your reaction to it, good bad or indifferent, doesn't change its definition.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It was more about him wanting Obi Wan at his best, to prove to himself that he can best him. He doesn't want no competition with him. It's down to personal torment and pride.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I've heard for a while in this series that Obi-Wan will face Vader twice in the series. he supposedly loses the first time which we know he does and then he wins the second round in the series but I'm not sure what they mean by "winning" here.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Obi-Wan teaches Vader something because he said he was the learner the last time they met in A New Hope.
It will be the rematch of the century, Kathleen Kennedy said so.
Madflavor
Member
I saw your post and I feel nothing. A few years ago I would've been jealous, but I feel nothing. I think over the years with the things Disney has done with Star Wars, the OT has lost a lot of it's integrity in my view, and I think a lot of the magic is gone. I actually haven't had any desire to rewatch the OT ever since TLJ. I just had my first kid last year, and I don't even have the slightest desire to show him Star Wars one day.
Fuck. I don't mean to sound depressing, but I guess this is where I'm at.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
I saw a video pop up on YouTube where Ewing McGregor apparently hinted at a second season today or whatever.
....
Why?
Javthusiast
Banned
RaptorGTA
Member
Milk that shit
Hey its like people keep buying Skyrim....if it sells..then keep pushing it.
Ionian
Member
Hard to disagree, yet growing up on it i'd still be intrigued. The Last Jedi sickened me, yet the people I went with thought is was great (GF, Father).
The last film just made me laugh as it was so stupid.
I liked Solo and The book of Boba. So the kid in me is still alive, yet the adult is bored by the same shit repeating. They seem to have tilted with the Disney+ shows which is the direction I want them to push.
Newer stories, yet they always go back to the same shit. I look forward to the Ashoka new ones though, actress was awesome.
Do an origin story of Admiral Ackbar. (The Vader / Obi-wan fight) did make me smile though. (still a kid at heart).
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Mossybrew
Banned
People will jump through all kinds of mental hoops to justify shit storytelling.
Sorry that scene was just crap man, there was no "master plan" to this, just plot convenience, Vader can't capture Kenobi right now because that's not how this hack script is written. Obvs can't kill or capture Kenobi right now, have to stretch this shit out so Kenobi can be "on the run" and "protecting a baby" for the remaining episodes. Amateur corporate garbage you are desperately trying to justify.
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Ulysses 31
Member
Will the next Vader vs Obi-Wan come anywhere close to this?
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NickFire
Member
I think people will also jump through mental hoops to not like something too. Like with this show. Where Vaders powers are finally given their due in live action and people over the moon about it get dismissed as desperate to justify corporate garbage. My sides.
Highly recommend reading the few cannon books and comics where Vader is in focus during this time period. his Portrayal in this series is spot on with them. And that is awesome.
Ulysses 31
Member
The problem with this kind of reasoning is that viewers would have to be familiar with those comics. I don't think it's reasonable to expect that from viewers so the show should drop some info/clues about this. If after 6 eps Vader doesn't talk about his time hunting Obi-Wan at all then that would be disappointing IMO.
If it's not in the movie then it's not something to be regarded. It's the writers job to inform the viewers enough otherwise you could explain any contrivance away by saying it's all explained in external works.
Like how in Rise of Skywalker the star destroyer fleet was buried in Ice and had crews operating them, how the emperor somehow survived exploding down that shaft and later on the explosion of the death star... all got explained in some book after the movie released. That's not a good way to tell stories.
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NickFire
Member
I partially agree with your third paragraph. But only partially cause no way am I pretending the book did a great job of explaining the emperors survival. that was a hack job.
Vaders story is far different and fleshed out. And not something I will ever fault the writers of the show for staying consistent with. He’s a ruthless son of a gun who hates Obi Wan passionately. How is that so hard for people to understand? Did you not see the husk of a burned man who needs 2 mechanical legs and arms getting put together in the suit? How did that scene by itself, coupled with the end of 3, not reinforce Vaders hatred? I just don’t get it. Look what Obi Wan did to him!
Ulysses 31
Member
I think people like me raise eyebrows that Vader lets Obi-Wan escape so easily when he hates him to much. It better have some believable explanation in the comes eps.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ok.
Sorry for trying to have fun in a discussion. Carry on.
Welcome to TV shows. Shit could be said for... shuffles deck, ANYTHING.
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BattleMonkey
Member
Star Wars scripts have all been stupid, the problem with the Disney+ shows is baffling and cheap direction that makes them so inconsistent. The laser gate checkpoint for example, in a show of it's budget this looked terrible and then the whole not walking around the little gate was silly. This is clearly a situation where script does not meet with the budget and the set designers on location just slapped together cheap little props for the checkpoint, whereas it just looked dumb. You also got the action having to be shot by hand on single cameras when action should be done in open spaces using mixes of camera rigs and setups. Onset with the volume puts lot of restrictions on their camera placement and the use of more elaborate cranes, dolly cart shots and more essentially to good direction.
Ulysses 31
Member
True but good writing can help mask plot armor and avoid contrived situations.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
It’s… it’s Star Wars tho.
Stuart360
Member
Overall i quite like the show, mainly down to Ewan who is just so good in the role BUT... i juist find it weird that he looks about 45 while Ben in ANH looked like late 60's, and this is only a few years before.
And i know its literally one line from ANH, but its hard to accept this show when you know Vader and Ben havent seen each other since the prequel trilogy. I mean do they both get their memory wiped at the end of the season?, droid style lol.
And i know its literally one line from ANH, but its hard to accept this show when you know Vader and Ben havent seen each other since the prequel trilogy. I mean do they both get their memory wiped at the end of the season?, droid style lol.
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dr_octagon
Banned
Space tuna factory, baby Leia, Ewan doing a TE Lawrence impression, 5 minutes from the prequels, lack of nice cinematography, some poor CGI and boring dialogue. Grand inquisitor was alright.
The soundtrack is trying its best but nothing amazing, the first episode is a disappointment.
The soundtrack is trying its best but nothing amazing, the first episode is a disappointment.
Hayabusa83
Banned
This show stinks. Some stories are best left untold. I quickly see this becoming the Reva redemption story rather than focusing on Obi Wan.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
This so much.
In fact I just heard that they might be making a Yoda show.
It's all a money grab with quality an afterthought many times.
The Mandalorian was one of the few that showed some care.
I gotta think that in the original movie script it was "and a giant AT-AT like mining machine falls between them, allowing Obi-Wan to escape", and for D+ that was turned into "a little bit of fire much like Vader used to burn Ben in the first place".
Ironbunny
Member
Are you serious? I dont know what kind of rose colored glasses you need to have not to see how bad the writing and directing is. :S More power to you if you have mind power to push trough all that shite. to me that seems mind-boggling.
Batiman
Banned
i finally watched the first episode and enjoyed it quite a bit. Was a bit concerned reading some comments here but overall I thought it was a good start to the show. Reva wasn’t as bad as I feared but then again she wasn’t in much of the first episode and that could change. Just love seeing Ewan again
Toons
Member
Thats a little dramatic dont you think
Anyway yea at this point I feel like people just have their own idea of what SW should be in their heads and whenever it isnt that they automatically dislike the product. To me SW can be pretty much anything depending on the character being used and what not, and I've enjoyed what we're getting. Its probably above Mando s2 for me but not above S1 which is still the peak of what they've done.
Depending on how the next few epsiodes go I could see this surpassing it. The shoes very totally consistent and Ewan is doing good work.
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I see the haters are out for this show. Reading half the stuff on here makes me think I must be watching a totally different show to them. So far, this is as good as The Mandalorian. and I'm looking forward to watching the rest of it.
Hopefully the people who hate this show stop watching it and stop lurking in these threads posting how much they hate it.
Hopefully the people who hate this show stop watching it and stop lurking in these threads posting how much they hate it.
Madflavor
Member
I don't think so.
I think the story of Star Wars, the integrity of it all, was a lot better before the Disney Era. Those who are currently in charge have done things that have tarnished the legacy of the OT and it's characters. Thank to the Obi Wan show, there are now scenes in ANH that have less weight to it.
dr_octagon
Banned
Mandalorian and Rogue One didn't undermine what happened previously.
I've seen YouTube videos about how airplane food is made and packaged which is more entertaining than this show. Star Wars and Star Trek in a race to the bottom.
They should have kept this as a movie and had a laser focus on Obi Wan and a proper character story.
I've seen YouTube videos about how airplane food is made and packaged which is more entertaining than this show. Star Wars and Star Trek in a race to the bottom.
They should have kept this as a movie and had a laser focus on Obi Wan and a proper character story.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
I'm just now learning about the racist jabs at Moses Ingram (2nd Sister) ... Her DMs she shared were disgusting ... Calling her the N-word and such. Threatening her life. Smh
She's beautiful
She's beautiful
Soapbox Killer
Grand Nagus
A New Hope left me with the impression that Anakin Skywalker being Darth Vader was a bit of a secret but apparently it's public domain.
I don't know how to feel about that.
I don't know how to feel about that.
ManaByte
Gold Member
It's not in the public domain. The Inquisitors know because they work directly for him.
Madflavor
Member
I can only speak for myself, but to a certain degree the Obi-wan show has cracked the integrity of some scenes in ANH. For example, the scene in ANH where Obi-Wan saves Luke is so well crafted. The Tuskan Raiders are scared off, and in the distance you see a hooded robbed figure. The way he moves, the fact that you can't see his face, it's like a ghost. A ghost from an older time. A dead age. When Luke asks about Obi-wan, you can see on Obi-wan's face how surreal it is to hear his name again.
"Obi-wan Kenobi....Obi-wan....now that's a name I've not heard in a looong time. A long time."
"I haven't gone by Obi-wan since oh before you were born."
Now think of that scene in the context of the Obi-wan show existing. Before this show, hearing his real name and being a Jedi was a lifetime ago. The way he acts when Luke says "Obi-wan", it's not the behavior of a man who was called his real name repeatedly, and went off on adventures a decade prior. And the 2nd line is just outright false now. It also doesn't help that aboard the Death Star, Vader's line to Obi-wan no longer fits either.
"When I left you I was but a learner, now I am the Master."
I know some fans can try to spin things from the show so that it can still fit in ANH, but to me that's not even the point. It was much more powerful knowing that while the Jedi Order were slaughtered to the brink of total extinction, a ghost lived in the shadows of Tatooine. Silently watching over a young boy for 20 years. A boy who would grow up to be the galaxy's last hope. The last of the Jedi. And when Obi-wan, after all those long years, having crawled out of his hole, Obi-wan finally for the first time sees his old friend again on the Death Star. And they brandish their lightsabers and duel. A practice from a forgotten age. It gives me goosebumps thinking about it.
Not to be a downer, but the more they add to this universe with these characters and giving them side stories, the less special they make them in the OT. Maybe not for all fans, but certainly for me.
"Obi-wan Kenobi....Obi-wan....now that's a name I've not heard in a looong time. A long time."
"I haven't gone by Obi-wan since oh before you were born."
Now think of that scene in the context of the Obi-wan show existing. Before this show, hearing his real name and being a Jedi was a lifetime ago. The way he acts when Luke says "Obi-wan", it's not the behavior of a man who was called his real name repeatedly, and went off on adventures a decade prior. And the 2nd line is just outright false now. It also doesn't help that aboard the Death Star, Vader's line to Obi-wan no longer fits either.
"When I left you I was but a learner, now I am the Master."
I know some fans can try to spin things from the show so that it can still fit in ANH, but to me that's not even the point. It was much more powerful knowing that while the Jedi Order were slaughtered to the brink of total extinction, a ghost lived in the shadows of Tatooine. Silently watching over a young boy for 20 years. A boy who would grow up to be the galaxy's last hope. The last of the Jedi. And when Obi-wan, after all those long years, having crawled out of his hole, Obi-wan finally for the first time sees his old friend again on the Death Star. And they brandish their lightsabers and duel. A practice from a forgotten age. It gives me goosebumps thinking about it.
Not to be a downer, but the more they add to this universe with these characters and giving them side stories, the less special they make them in the OT. Maybe not for all fans, but certainly for me.
Hayabusa83
Banned
Careful now lest you be labelled a hater by a bootlicking corporate fanboy.
Disney has bottomed out so badly that they are dumpster diving the Legends lore they themselves discontinued. Go ahead call me a hater, I will just amplify my voice even louder. Kyle Katern stole the plans for the Death Star, Luke got married to a smoking hot red head that once wanted him dead, and Vader and Obi Wan didn't meet between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope.
Fbh
Member
Finally caught up with episode 3.
The show is fun enough for what it is but man, I feel like they could have told this exact same story so much better if they had slightly better writing and directing. There's some really dumb shit in every episode.
Also lol at the people trying to pretend this fits into the OT. Unless they do some asspull in the final episode were Leia forgets the whole thing (head injury or something like that)
The show is fun enough for what it is but man, I feel like they could have told this exact same story so much better if they had slightly better writing and directing. There's some really dumb shit in every episode.
Also lol at the people trying to pretend this fits into the OT. Unless they do some asspull in the final episode were Leia forgets the whole thing (head injury or something like that)
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Working for him does not mean that they need to be told/they get to know the secret though. It was a secret.
Darkmakaimura
Can You Imagine What SureAI Is Going To Do With Garfield?
Anyone who says Obi-Wan did not know who Darth Vader was. I'm watching Revenge of the Sith right now and at 1:37 Yoda says Anakin was consumed by Darth Vader right in front of Obi-Wan.
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I'm still confused by the canon. In the original film, it's heavily implied that the duel between Vader and Ben Kenobi is the first time they've seen each other since Obi-Wan left Anakin for dead on Mustafar, yet they've clearly just duelled on Tattooine, and will no doubt duel again later in the series. Disney done fucked up with the timing.
True - though to be fair, Rebels already undid that by having him do final duel with Maul like... a year? Months? Weeks? before ANH happened... Not to mention meeting Ezra Bridger, another force user powerful enough to interest even Palpatine, at the same time.
I guess some people can keep continuity of animated stuff more separated (but with Ashoka already in live-canon and even meeting Luke, and soon Ezra showing up that distinction is being erased quickly).
I mean this has been the bane of all prequels ever made. It's extraordinarily rare for one of them not to dilute the original material and actually add something meaningful other than fan-service explanations/add-ons. But Disney style story-telling of 'chasing the moments' has been particularly egregious at all this, as they struggle even writing cohesive plot-threads to tie it all together between the constant 'wink wink/nudge nudge/look at this'.
It doesn't make sense though - particularly since this show establishes the infighting/ambition between inquisitors rather well, and fear being the one thing that keeps them in check. Revealing his Jedi heritage could only make his job harder - so unless Palpatine did it out of spite, Anakin certainly wouldn't.
It was also never stated, but heavily implied in Rebels that inquisitors didn't know who he was. This insert in ObiWan was solely for purposes of another wink/reminder at the audience - and it made no narrative sense. All prior siths we met in any capacity were eager to hide/deny their jedi-heritage(even the likes of Ventress), and for someone that hates his former self so much, why would Anakin do any different?
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Ulysses 31
Member
Yup, dunno where he's pulling that fom. In the comics the Grand Inquisitor was about to be killed by Vader and he asked who he was till the Emperor stepped in.
And he never gets told later on either.
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