Support NeoGAF

[ProtoByte]

A pledge to mediocrity. This industry needs a shot in the arm.

Here's the truth: Gaming is not a low-risk business, and never will be. This medium can't get away with a sea of mid. Obsidian bosses can say such nonsense now because they think they're safe under Microsoft. Good luck convincing Nadella that's worth keeping though.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

So basically they are turning into safe and cheap subscription studio. Sensible, but very sad. New Vegas obsidian is basically dead.

 

[Ogbert]

That’s actually an eminently sensible approach and exactly what a studio should be doing, to maintain an even keel.

Just a reminder that ‘not aggressively growing’ means not hiring DEI clowns.

Whether MS agree is a different question.

 

[Ogbert]

A pledge to mediocrity. This industry needs a shot in the arm.

Here's the truth: Gaming is not a low-risk business, and never will be. This medium can't get away with a sea of mid. Obsidian bosses can say such nonsense now because they think they're safe under Microsoft. Good luck convincing Nadella that's worth keeping though.

I don’t think that’s fair.

There’s nothing more mediocre than AAA garbage, tired and boring games dressed up in graphical pyrotechnics.

Maintaining an identity and trying to protect the idea of interesting, AA games is worthwhile and I wish more studios took that approach.

 

[StereoVsn]

Tyranny was the last great Obsidian game and nobody bought it.

Lack of scope doomed it I think. And it was too “mild”. It was an interesting titles but it just got lost in a sea of games.

That’s the danger of aiming for mild success. Too many games releasing aiming for same and then you get outstanding titles that everyone focuses on. In case of Avowed they are releasing just after KCD2 hit and Monster Hunter about to release.

Very few people will buy their game. I guess as long as GamePass “engagement” is alright MS management will be mildly satisfied?

 

[R3TRO]

That’s surprising given other studios these days.

 

[cireza]

He's basically saying don't expect too much from our games. Zero confidence take.

Actually, he is saying : expect some variety and original ideas in our games, as the risk is mitigated since we are not betting our studio's survival on every game we release.

 

[adamsapple]

My chinese bro LectureMaster be like

 

[lh032]

profits outrun obsidian.

 

[ReBurn]

When you aim for the bottom you're bound to hit it.

 

[ProtoByte]

There’s nothing more mediocre than AAA garbage, tired and boring games dressed up in graphical pyrotechnics.

Other than tired, boring indie slop dressed up in the pretense of being "innovative" just by virtue of not being AAA.

Maintaining an identity and trying to protect the idea of interesting, AA games is worthwhile and I wish more studios took that approach.

How "interesting" did you find Pentiment? 5 people played that game. How interesting was The Outer Worlds? The only thing I find interesting about Avowed is the fact that they managed to regress from their previous design pedigree in TOW, despite having full Microsoft backing and 5-6 years of dev time.

Obsidian making a statement like this after a string of patently uninteresting games isn't worthy of respect or praise.

 

[Hudo]

Please do Pillars of Eternity 3 next. And maybe work together with inXile on a Fallout 1 remaster/remake or a new Fallout game. Don't let Bethesda touch that IP again.

 

[DirtInUrEye]

Just hurry and announce Grounded 2 please.

 

[winjer]

Even Obsidian knows they made something underwhelming.

 

[nowhat]

That's a sound strategy. It worked well for Tango Softworks.

 

[Ev1L AuRoN]

One can argue that Tango game produces mild successes with small budgets, and they got axed.... I would try to be a bit more ambitious if I were their CEO.

 

[analog_future]

Fucking love it.


Make games because you have passion for what you're making and you believe in the product. Not to force growth or to artificially try expand your profits or audience.

 

[Loomy]

Imagine saying this out loud when your parent company is Microsoft.

 

[Ogbert]

How "interesting" did you find Pentiment? 5 people played that game. How interesting was The Outer Worlds? The only thing I find interesting about Avowed is the fact that they managed to regress from their previous design pedigree in TOW, despite having full Microsoft backing and 5-6 years of dev time.

I dropped Outer Worlds after about 15 hours. Just didn’t click with me. But I loved PoE 1 and 2.

I don’t expect every game a studio makes to be a hit. But I do applaud senior managers that try and kick against the overwhelming trends of AAA blockbusters, battle passes and generic slop.

 

[simpatico]

Tyranny was the last great Obsidian game and nobody bought it.

Here's the thing about isometric CRPGs. When NWN2 and BG2 came out, it was not an artistic decision. It was the only way to make a game of that scope with the technology available.

When you make an isometric CRPG in 2025, you're doing it with different intentions. You're making something quirky and nostalgic.

 

[MrRibeye]

Skyrim was shipped by a team of 104. I don't see why Obsidian needs to grow larger than it already is.

 

[a'la mode]

Aww, that's so adorable, they think they have the freedom and the choice when owned by a publicly traded company

 

[pudel]

You're making something quirky and nostalgic.

Nothing wrong with that. Larian and Owlcat are showing that this is something desirable and can be commercially successful.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

They said they’re basing their expectations on ‘mild success’, not that they want mild successes.

Nobody’s going to turn their nose up at money.

That's loser-mentality.

If that is the mindset to run your studio, you can only go downward, or at best try to stay afloat.

How do you even garner support that way, long-term? From either your customers or your mother-company?

 

[simpatico]

Nothing wrong with that. Larian and Owlcat are showing that this is something desirable and can be commercially successful.

Larian actually uses the technology of the day. It's the only example I can see of a modern isometric being something beyond nostalgia catnip. If people in the BG2 era were making games with the same tech philosophy as modern day isometric CRPG makers, they'd be making Zork clones. New Blood has an isometric Fallout-like in the oven. Micro-studios with single digit headcounts are the exact people who should be dabbling in the genre.

Owlcat plays in an entirely different funding league than Obsidian and Larian, lets not lose sight of that.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Lemme guess, Avowed isn't meeting their expectations

 

[pudel]

Owlcat plays in an entirely different funding league than Obsidian and Larian, lets not lose sight of that.

If it goes by me....Owlcat can stay in that league forever.I wasnt particularly happy that Obsidian (and also inExile) went away from isometric style.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

lol sure

 

[simpatico]

If it goes by me....Owlcat can stay in that league forever.I wasnt particularly happy that Obsidian (and also inExile) went away from isometric style.

I don't think they're at risk of outgrowing it. It seems they've found nice baselines for funding and scope targets. Obsidian is too big to be playing in this sandbox. As proven by the titles they consider to be successful.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The 100 year comment is silly but budgeting as if your games will be mild successes seems smart. Especially these days with budgets getting out of control.

The 100yr comment isn't silly at all. It's an indication of their intent to manage the studio tightly and not take on too much commercial risk. It's a sound strategy for the longevity of the studio. Know your limits and manage them appropriately.

It's the difference between studios like Obsidian and the 500 dev houses that shutdown during the PS3 gen, because they exploded from a headcount of 60 to 300 overnight.

 

[geary]

I don't think they're at risk of outgrowing it. It seems they've found nice baselines for funding and scope targets. Obsidian is too big to be playing in this sandbox. As proven by the titles they consider to be successful.

Actually Owlcat have some big plans. Has 4 projects in progress and only one is crpg. Also for another is using UE5. So, i think that ship has sailed.

 

[pudel]

Actually Owlcat have some big plans. Has 4 projects in progress and only one is crpg. Also for another is using UE5. So, i think that ship has sailed.

 

[Kacho]

Kacho

Sounds like expectations are low for Avowed which is pretty sad. Obsidian should be putting out proper bangers with Microsoft backing them.

I think it's pretty clear that Obsidian best years are behind them. Other RPG studios like Larian, Warhorse, and Owlcat have eclipsed them.

 

[ValiantInstance]

Good for them.

As a consumer, this sucks ass.

He's basically saying don't expect too much from our games. Zero confidence take.

It's the last desperate huff of copium before the inevitable closure.

"Gosh darn, we're not as talented as I thought we were. Instead of evaluating this let's just tell consumers to expect less from us"

 

[simpatico]

Sounds like expectations are low for Avowed which is pretty sad. Obsidian should be putting out proper bangers with Microsoft backing them.

I think it's pretty clear that Obsidian best years are behind them. Other RPG studios like Larian, Warhorse, and Owlcat have eclipsed them.

Obsidian has released exactly one "banger" since they hung their new shingle: Fallout New Vegas. Alpha Protocol was the height of their aspirations. Ever since then it's been pretty much what they call out in this OP: making little niche games to barely squeak by financially. My passion for them relied on the assumption they would be expanding on what was started in NV and AP. I'm beginning to accept that isn't happening.

 

[rm082e]

From a production standpoint, this is exactly what a lot of gamers have been saying they want: Developers who keep their budgets reasonable, make a game that doesn't bet the fate of the studio, and operate in a more sustainable way. The games will be more like TV movies than summer blockbusters. If that's actually the intent behind his comments, then good for them.

Buhhhhht, it's sure hard not to view this as lowering expectations after lots of reviewers felt it underdelivered compared to their previous work. I haven't played an Obsidian game since New Vegas, so I don't have an opinion there.

 

[Klayzer]

I don’t think that’s fair.

There’s nothing more mediocre than AAA garbage, tired and boring games dressed up in graphical pyrotechnics.

Maintaining an identity and trying to protect the idea of interesting, AA games is worthwhile and I wish more studios took that approach.

I totally agree. To me, smaller budgets have typically more interesting gameplay mechanics, usually.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

what a weird statemet

 

[geary]

Now is weird that a studio knows their lane, their strengths and weaknesses and don't try to be something else?

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Talk about having no aspirations.
These comments alongside the "expect jank" from the Avowed's director are laughable.
Leave game dev to ambitious folks people. Take gardening or something else..

The jank quote is literally about pushing the envelope and being ambitious.

Anyway this sounds good for Obsidian and it’s already been their m.o. for as long as I can remember.

The opposite is taking seven years to put out a massive safe AAA snooze fest RPG. No thanks.

 

[Fess]

Skyrim was shipped by a team of 104. I don't see why Obsidian needs to grow larger than it already is.

14 years ago…
A team of 80 in 2025 is fairly small. But the upside for the studio when they go with this strategy is that they can have multiple teams and push out games faster. As long as they have another ”mild success” coming fairly soon they can handle a stumble. And The Outer Worlds 2 is supposedly coming out this year too, multi day 1. Should bring in some extra cash.

 

[Klayzer]

The opposite is taking seven years to put out a massive safe AAA snooze fest RPG. No thanks.

For certain. We need less of that shit. Away with the bloat please. I commend Obsidian, for having a plausible strategy for their games.

 

[Kacho]

Obsidian has released exactly one "banger" since they hung their new shingle: Fallout New Vegas. Alpha Protocol was the height of their aspirations. Ever since then it's been pretty much what they call out in this OP: making little niche games to barely squeak by financially. My passion for them relied on the assumption they would be expanding on what was started in NV and AP. I'm beginning to accept that isn't happening.

They had a bit of a comeback in the 2010s with Pillars and Tyranny. Outer Worlds was exciting because it was like Fallout in space but it missed the mark. I thought maybe Avowed would be where they got things back on track but that didn't materialize.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

For certain. We need less of that shit. Away with the bloat please. I commend Obsidian, for having a plausible strategy for their games.

People say stuff like this, then go rate SoP 'F' for showing games that do exactly that.

(Not you, but in general)

 

[TrebleShot]

Maybe,
Maybe set the bar a little lower. Early Indicators. Not good.

 

[ElFenomeno]

The jank quote is literally about pushing the envelope and being ambitious.

Ok so what exactly is ambitious and pushing the envelope in Avowed?

 

[Ozriel]

A pledge to mediocrity. This industry needs a shot in the arm.

Here's the truth: Gaming is not a low-risk business, and never will be. This medium can't get away with a sea of mid. Obsidian bosses can say such nonsense now because they think they're safe under Microsoft. Good luck convincing Nadella that's worth keeping though.

You know ‘mild success’ also means profitable?
Why would anyone need convincing that a scandal free studio making profits isn’t worth keeping?

So basically they are turning into safe and cheap subscription studio. Sensible, but very sad. New Vegas obsidian is basically dead.

‘Mild success’ is pretty much Remedy’s MO. Are they a ‘safe and cheap subscription studio’ too?

Lemme guess, Avowed isn't meeting their expectations

This is from a talk a DICE that would have been scheduled ages ago.

 

[Bumblebeetuna]

Ok so what exactly is ambitious and pushing the envelope in Avowed?

Idk, I’m like four or five hours in. But if you’re going to use a quote as the crux of your position then at least read the entire thing

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

‘Mild success’ is pretty much Remedy’s MO. Are they a ‘safe and cheap subscription studio’ too?

Their MO is always deliver a game full of ambitions and dull on sales, that't why they are always standing on a verge of closure. Not even talking about them always pushing the tech envelope with their own engine since demoscene days. (Futuremark is ex-Remedy).

Remedy, thankfully, is not current Obisdian in the slightest. And I hope they will never bow for the sake of comfort and mediocrity.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Aim small, miss small?

Being careful with a budget isn't a bad thing. It's kind of what needs to happen right now. It's just a weird way to say that.