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[Evlar]

I just want to say that this is my favorite gaf thread. I am really happy the OWS movement exists.

The most beautiful thing about this thread is the bunch of angry/lazy/rich hippies in a fishbowl who think they are actually making a difference in the world. the futile rants and frustration as you encounter the real world is hilarious. keep posting, please!

So you'd agree that using teargas on these people is indefensible, right? Since they're futile and all.

 

[Chichikov]

I just want to say that this is my favorite gaf thread. I am really happy the OWS movement exists.

The most beautiful thing about this thread is the bunch of angry/lazy/rich hippies in a fishbowl who think they are actually making a difference in the world. the futile rants and frustration as you encounter the real world is hilarious. keep posting, please!

Glad to keep you entertained.
For what it's worth, if this movement is successful, you'll reap the reward as well.
You're welcomed.


Also, if you want to do something a bit more substantial than getting angry replies (which I somewhat doubt) you may want to level a bit more substantial criticism than "you're all just spoiled stupid hippies".
I mean, what type of response are you expecting?

 

[marrec]

Really?
Out of curiously, what type of grenades were you playing with?
(not doubting you, just trying to educate myself, if I'm dead wrong about the ordnance law enforcement use in this country, I would like to avoid making myself look like a fool in the future).

p.s.
Are we talking about the same video?
I'm talking about this one, around the 40 seconds.

Honestly I couldn't tell you, our small town (700 pop) sheriff recieved a bunch from a state funding bill and didn't know what else to do with them, so he got a few of his buddies together and we threw em out into a cow pasture for shits and grins. Yes, we were drunk.

What we may have here is a combo Flash/Tear Gas?

Either way, as far as I know you aren't supposed to drop Tear Gas on someones head like they are in that video.

So you'd agree that using teargas on these people is indefensible, right? Since they're futile and all.

The use of Tear Gas is fine, but the way it was used I think will get a few lawsuits.

I have no problem with them Tear Gassing a crowd, but when that one canister went off right in the middle of about 10 people trying to help someone up... that's quite fucked up. You could have thrown that in a different position and had the same damn effect.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

I'm not sure why it would matter all that much (and if you ever had the displeasure of breathing tear gas, I'm guessing neither would you), but I have (sadly) deployed both gas grenades and flashbangs (and I was also on the receiving end of those), and this doesn't sound like any tear gas grenade I've ever seen.
Now I wouldn't claim to know every single ordnance in the world, but considering that -

• we had mostly american technology
• this looks and sound exactly like a flashbang
• I can't think of a reason why a gas grenade would make that type of noise

I'm going to say with a reasonable amount of certainty that it's a flashbang.

Now let me ask you a counter question -
Why do you doubt it's a flashbang?
Like, what reason, outside your weird desire to see these demonstrations fail (that I really can't understand) do you have to even have an opinion about that?

1. A cloud was produced that seemed similar to the tear gas canisters seen earlier in the video.
2. Flashbangs (while they can be deployed launcher) are far more often thrown than deployed via luanchers. Beanbags and Teargas are far more likely to deployed that way than thrown (which you can't do with Beanbags)
3. It's possible the tear gas didn't properly deploy at short range. 40MM Grenades don't arm/detonate at short range.

More importantly what occurs at around 21 seconds in the video? It's the same explosion and quick dispersal.

EDIT: Tear gas/flashbang combo makes a lot of sense.

 

[Chichikov]

What we may have here is a combo Flash/Tear Gas?

Could be, though I can't imagine why you'd want that, I think the explosion will disperse the gas, maybe for urban warfare, I don't know.
But in any case, that would make it worse than a flashbang, so the point is kinda moot vis-a-vas Manos' assertion, right?

Either way, as far as I know you aren't supposed to drop Tear Gas on someones head like they are in that video.

It's like a smoke grenade, it can get kinda hot, but it's not super dangerous, people throw it back all the times.
Though I really don't think there was a reason to use tear gas those people.

 

[Esch]

1. A cloud was produced that seemed similar to the tear gas canisters seen earlier in the video.
2. Flashbangs (while they can be deployed launcher) are far more often thrown than deployed via luanchers. Beanbags and Teargas are far more likely to deployed that way than thrown (which you can't do with Beanbags)
3. It's possible the tear gas didn't properly deploy at short range. 40MM Grenades don't arm/detonate at short range.

More importantly what occurs at around 21 seconds in the video? It's the same explosion and quick dispersal.

If you watch the video it's lobbed by a cop. They even slow it down.

 

[Xyrmellon]

I'm not pushing any political agenda on this point, but found it funny how on each cable news homepage they were treating this story:

Foxnews (right): EXCLUSIVE: ACORN Playing Behind Scenes Role in 'Occupy' Movement

MSNBC (left): Dozens of anti-Wall Street protesters held in Atlanta; Oakland crowds hit with tear gas

CNN (I usually consider middle): Nothing on OWS on front page.

If CNN speaks for mainstream America, they really don't care at this point.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

If you watch the video it's lobbed by a cop. They even slow it down.

Why than does he lower his launcher? Look at 1:15 than's not being thrown that's from a launcher, you can even see smoke.

EDIT: You mean at 21 seconds?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Could be, though I can't imagine why you'd want that, I think the explosion will disperse the gas, maybe for urban warfare, I don't know.
But in any case, that would make it worse than a flashbang, so the point is kinda moot vis-a-vas Manos' assertion, right?.

No, it wouldn't be a full flashbang effect. It's goal is mostly to prevent people from trying to chuck other canisters back most likely.

 

[Esch]

Why than does he lower his launcher? Look at 1:15 than's not being thrown that's from a launcher, you can even see smoke.

Yeah but the actual object in question is quite clearly thrown underhand at 1:40.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yeah but the actual object in question is quite clearly thrown underhand at 1:40.

Ah, I see what you mean, yes that is definitely being thrown. Then what the hell was the point of the focus earlier on?

EDIT: It's weird though. It looks like part of it breaks apart in flight between 1:40-1:42. I think it's some compression artifact, but I can't say for sure.

 

[Funky Papa]

I'm not pushing any political agenda on this point, but found it funny how on each cable news homepage they were treating this story:

Foxnews (right): EXCLUSIVE: ACORN Playing Behind Scenes Role in 'Occupy' Movement

MSNBC (left): Dozens of anti-Wall Street protesters held in Atlanta; Oakland crowds hit with tear gas

CNN (I usually consider middle): Nothing on OWS on front page.

If CNN speaks for mainstream America, they really don't care at this point.

CNN has been irrelevant to journalism for years. Maybe a good couple of decades.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

CNN has been irrelevant to journalism for years. Maybe a good couple of decades.

It's still far more watched than MSNBC ever has been. lol Well that used to be the case, did their Fox Left rebranding help their ratings at all?

 

[Evil Benius]

I'm not pushing any political agenda on this point, but found it funny how on each cable news homepage they were treating this story:

Foxnews (right): EXCLUSIVE: ACORN Playing Behind Scenes Role in 'Occupy' Movement

MSNBC (left): Dozens of anti-Wall Street protesters held in Atlanta; Oakland crowds hit with tear gas

CNN (I usually consider middle): Nothing on OWS on front page.

If CNN speaks for mainstream America, they really don't care at this point.

CNN did have an article up on Oakland for a while this morning (it was where I first saw it mentioned), I imagine it was replaced with other news at this point in the day.

 

[WillyFive]

CNN has been irrelevant to journalism for years. Maybe a good couple of decades.

Yeah. It's great that they don't push political agendas, but they really suck at providing news coverage. It never feels like they are effectively covering the stories, they don't go deep into it, they just look at it at the surface and say "yep, that seems to be what is happening" and moves on.

It sucks because the ones that do dig deeper into the story are the same ones that choose to interpret the news in a certain matter.

 

[Chichikov]

1. A cloud was produced that seemed similar to the tear gas canisters seen earlier in the video.
2. Flashbangs (while they can be deployed launcher) are far more often thrown than deployed via luanchers. Beanbags and Teargas are far more likely to deployed that way than thrown (which you can't do with Beanbags)
3. It's possible the tear gas didn't properly deploy at short range. 40MM Grenades don't arm/detonate at short range.

More importantly what occurs at around 21 seconds in the video? It's the same explosion and quick dispersal.


EDIT: Tear gas/flashbang combo makes a lot of sense.

1. That look like flashbang as well. flashbang creates some smoke.
2. That is 100% not true, at least not for the IDF.
3. Tear gas doesn't have that type of explosive in it, and in any case 40mm grenades shouldn't be used from that range, at all, and it's a bigger deal than flashbangs if they did use them (and if you use a 40mm grenade that as an arming protection mechanism at a close range, it just doesn't explode).
4. I don't know why a tear gas/flashbang combo makes sense from a tactical perspective, but it's still a flashbang.

but let me ask you again, what do you base it on?
I'm guessing you never seen a flashbang or a tear gas deployed in real life (not a criticism, this is a goal most people should aspire to) and yet you have a very strong opinion about it is, stronger than me, who was on the receiving and giving end of such toys.
Why is that?

 

[Krauser Kat]

I just want to say that this is my favorite gaf thread. I am really happy the OWS movement exists.

The most beautiful thing about this thread is the bunch of angry/lazy/rich hippies in a fishbowl who think they are actually making a difference in the world. the futile rants and frustration as you encounter the real world is hilarious. keep posting, please!

Being angry about losing your home and life because assholes fucked up numbers and did not care to double check because the money was too good. Does not make one a hippy. Finding all of this amusing will only do you a disservice probability tells us your are part of the 99% and would benefit from our actions to narrow the wealth disparity in our country.

 

[minus_273]

CNN did have an article up on Oakland for a while this morning (it was where I first saw it mentioned), I imagine it was replaced with other news at this point in the day.

i really dont think anyone cares about upper middle class radical squatters when there is actual news. if i didnt come into this thread i wouldnt have know about oakland and i only come in here for the entertainment value (people getting angry on the internet!! raaage!)

i think the events in syria and the EU are far more important and the only people who care are the far and left right who seem to feed off each other.

someone said that if the movement is successful (lol) i should thank them. could someone tell me what the movement is actually about because to be this is as funny as the tea party except they didnt smell as bad (i went past one of the local sqatter camps in my city recently) and werent as violent.

to real people with jobs, ows is just the latest incarnation of the anti war/anti globalism/etc generic protester with no message that wants to smash things and burn cars.

 

[Crisco]

I just want to say that this is my favorite gaf thread. I am really happy the OWS movement exists.

The most beautiful thing about this thread is the bunch of angry/lazy/rich hippies in a fishbowl who think they are actually making a difference in the world. the futile rants and frustration as you encounter the real world is hilarious. keep posting, please!

What's funny to me about this post is that it implies that OWS is some fringe movement that is not representative of the majority of Americans, let alone humanity as a whole. It is in fact, the most inclusive popular movement since the wave of social upheaval following WWII, and those who don't support it are the ones who will be left behind.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

lol @ minus trying too hard.

Less is more, dude.

 

[Mercury Fred]

i really dont think anyone cares about upper middle class radical squatters when there is actual news. if i didnt come into this thread i wouldnt have know about oakland and i only come in here for the entertainment value (people getting angry on the internet!! raaage!)

i think the events in syria and the EU are far more important and the only people who care are the far and left right who seem to feed off each other.

someone said that if the movement is successful (lol) i should thank them. could someone tell me what the movement is actually about because to be this is as funny as the tea party except they didnt smell as bad (i went past one of the local sqatter camps in my city recently) and werent as violent.

to real people with jobs, ows is just the latest incarnation of the anti war/anti globalism/etc generic protester with no message that wants to smash things and burn cars.

lol

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

1. That look like flashbang as well. flashbang creates some smoke.

In retrospect with it appearing to be a combo device that makes sense, but there appears to also be a small gas dispersal.

2. That is 100% not true, at least not for the IDF.

I suspect this varies from country to country based on doctrine, equipment orders, and training.

3. Tear gas doesn't have that type of explosive in it, and in any case 40mm grenades shouldn't be used from that range, at all, and it's a bigger deal than flashbangs if they did use them (and if you use a 40mm grenade that as an arming protection mechanism at a close range, it just doesn't explode).

I'm only saying it's a possible reason for a weird detonation, HOWEVER, with it being a flash/gas combo, it makes a lot more sense and I withdraw a dud as an explanation.

4. I don't know why a tear gas/flashbang combo makes sense from a tactical perspective, but it's still a flashbang.

To prevent people from tossing back other recently launched devices before they deploy the gas fully. It's really a combo device. Though I would lean with the purpose being more a diversion device.

but let me ask you again, what do you base it on?
I'm guessing you never seen a flashbang or a tear gas deployed in real life (not a criticism, this is a goal most people should aspire to) and yet you have a very strong opinion about it is, stronger than me, who was on the receiving and giving end of such toys.
Why is that?

Visual experience of seeing it used in documentaries and product demonstrations, so I'm not trying come off as an expert, but I am coming in with some knowledge. Thankfully as you point out, not first hand. I'm just trying to apply logical reasoning, as you are. It appears we are both right to an extent if it's a combo device.

 

[Enron]

ows is just the latest incarnation of the anti war/anti globalism/etc generic protester with no message that wants to smash things and burn cars.

This is pretty much true, what most people think about OWS (minus the smash things/burn cars). Literally no one around me in real life is taking it very seriously, or even caring.

 

[empty vessel]

CNN (I usually consider middle): Nothing on OWS on front page.

If CNN speaks for mainstream America, they really don't care at this point.

CNN doesn't speak for mainstream America. It speaks for its advertisers (corporations), owners, and executives. There is no media institution in the entire country that speaks for mainstream America, because there is no publicly funded media institution in the country at all.

i think the events in syria and the EU are far more important and the only people who care are the far and left right who seem to feed off each other.

Er, you are the far right.

This is pretty much true, what most people think about OWS (minus the smash things/burn cars). Literally no one around me in real life is taking it very seriously, or even caring.

The people around you in real life are probably just like you. Entirely out of touch. That's not an insult, incidentally. It's true of most people that the people around them tend to be like them.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

CNN doesn't speak for mainstream America. It speaks for its advertisers (corporations), owners, and executives. There is no media institution in the entire country that speaks for mainstream America, because there is no publicly funded media institution in the country at all.

Just because something is publicly funded don't mean it would speak for mainstream America.

I know you say the PBS/NPR are corporations, but I've yet to see a valid complaint against them, well accept when Bush tried to put people on it and was alleged to want to change it to having a different slant.

That said the US does have publicly funded media corporations, they just can't broadcast inside the United States.

 

[richiek]

i really dont think anyone cares about upper middle class radical squatters when there is actual news. if i didnt come into this thread i wouldnt have know about oakland and i only come in here for the entertainment value (people getting angry on the internet!! raaage!)

LOL

to real people with jobs, ows is just the latest incarnation of the anti war/anti globalism/etc generic protester with no message that wants to smash things and burn cars.

The cops seem to be the ones perpetrating most of the violence.

 

[Azih]

This is pretty much true, what most people think about OWS (minus the smash things/burn cars). Literally no one around me in real life is taking it very seriously, or even caring.

Anecdotal evidence versus http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...americans-support-occupy-wall-street/246963/#

 

[marrec]

4. I don't know why a tear gas/flashbang combo makes sense from a tactical perspective, but it's still a flashbang.

To me, it makes sense from a gear perspective. You don't have to carry around twice the amount of gear, just have one Flash/Tear combo pack for all your crowd dispersal needs.

Then again, not all situations call for Flash/Tear at the same time... so it goes back to not making much sense.

Either way, that Police Officer who casually tossed that can into the small group of people is the reason why people bring cameras to this stuff... idiots like him give real law enforcement a bad name.

 

[empty vessel]

Just because something is publicly funded don't mean it would speak for mainstream America.

Not per se, no. There would have to be guarantees of independence.

I know you say the PBS/NPR are corporations, but I've yet to see a valid complaint against them, well accept when Bush tried to put people on it and was alleged to want to change it to having a different slant.

I have plenty of complaints about PBS and NPR. Because they are underwritten by corporations and private donations from people who are well off, their reporting takes that perspective and does not encompass issues from the perspective of and of interest to the broader public. That they are partly publicly funded makes them more responsive to these needs, but they are not public media and do not fully serve them.

That said the US does have publicly funded media corporations, they just can't broadcast inside the United States.

That is not the kind of media I am talking about.

 

[Red Nightmare]

This is pretty much true, what most people think about OWS (minus the smash things/burn cars). Literally no one around me in real life is taking it very seriously, or even caring.

I agree. It's pretty much just mild comic relief. Just a bunch of wannabe hippies that wish they could have been around in the 1960s to protest the Vietnam war and for real civil rights. Those were the days, man!

It's funny to see them try to come up with a real "cause". Ummm, greed is bad, man, and, like, bankers and stuff, uh, yeah...

 

[SouthernDragon]

I agree. It's pretty much just mild comic relief. Just a bunch of wannabe hippies that wish they could have been around in the 1960s to protest the Vietnam war and for real civil rights. Those were the days, man!

It's funny to see them try to come up with a real "cause". Ummm, greed is bad, man, and, like, bankers and stuff, uh, yeah...

I, too, like to pay minimal attention to movements so that I may deride them easily. A toast to you and I sir, a toast!

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I agree. It's pretty much just mild comic relief. Just a bunch of wannabe hippies that wish they could have been around in the 1960s to protest the Vietnam war and for real civil rights. Those were the days, man!

It's funny to see them try to come up with a real "cause". Ummm, greed is bad, man, and, like, bankers and stuff, uh, yeah...

you literally don't even have the faintest clue of what you're talking about.

its baffling to me, completely baffling.

it seems that no matter what there are those like you so indoctrinated and deeply socialized that even the concept of discourse or critical thinking doesn't exist, throw a generic statement in the air and hope it sticks because to actually use that noggin of yours would be too much!

 

[Red Nightmare]

you literally don't even have the faintest clue of what you're talking about.

its baffling to me, completely baffling

I know you desperately want this "movement" to be taken seriously, but it's a joke. Wannabes and losers crying for mommy government to make all their problems go away. Real life doesn't work like that, son.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Not per se, no. There would have to be guarantees of independence.

How do you truly protect that from administration changes, even the BBC has problems with editorial independence and bias.

I have plenty of complaints about PBS and NPR. Because they are underwritten by corporations and private donations from people who are well off, their reporting takes that perspective and does not encompass issues from the perspective of and of interest to the broader public. That they are partly publicly funded makes them more responsive to these needs, but they are not public media and do not fully serve them.

Do you have any specific examples of NPR/PBS not being responsive?

That is not the kind of media I am talking about.

It is publicly funded and government by an independent board of directors, in fact when this came up before it was noted that in regards to charters, VOA and BBC are in some ways fairly similar.

 

[kame-sennin]

I just want to say that this is my favorite gaf thread. I am really happy the OWS movement exists.

The most beautiful thing about this thread is the bunch of angry/lazy/rich hippies in a fishbowl who think they are actually making a difference in the world. the futile rants and frustration as you encounter the real world is hilarious. keep posting, please!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8UlxhfJLw

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj8UlxhfJLw

That's opinion, just as much as the the post you're responding to.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

I know you desperately want this "movement" to be taken seriously, but it's a joke. Wannabes and losers crying for mommy government to make all their problems go away. Real life doesn't work like that, son.

You didn't in any sense of the word reply with anything of substance. again with the platitudes and diatribes that unfortunately plague most laughably ignorant Americans.

I'm sure you lack any understanding of our current economic and social conditions and their wider global context beyond simplified talking points like those you spout, and they'd be funny if they were parody but...

 

[Chichikov]

Visual experience of seeing it used in documentaries and product demonstrations, so I'm not trying come off as an expert, but I am coming in with some knowledge. Thankfully as you point out, not first hand. I'm just trying to apply logical reasoning, as you are. It appears we are both right to an extent if it's a combo device.

You just seem to be applying logic in such way that is always against these demonstrations, and I'm truly can't figure out why.
I mean, you don't seem to be naturally politically aligned to categorically oppose such movement.
Is this only because you thought they're stupid and would die out and you need to somehow justify your position?
FWIW, I also thought they were stupid hippies that wouldn't last a day.
But I'm happy to admit I was wrong.

p.s.
I'm getting bored of that military talk, so unless really want to press the issue, I'll drop it, I said what I had to say.

 

[Mercury Fred]

I know you desperately want this "movement" to be taken seriously, but it's a joke. Wannabes and losers crying for mommy government to make all their problems go away. Real life doesn't work like that, son.

Creepy and bizarre.

 

[empty vessel]

you literally don't even have the faintest clue of what you're talking about.

its baffling to me, completely baffling.

it seems that no matter what there are those like you so indoctrinated and deeply socialized that even the concept of discourse or critical thinking doesn't exist, throw a generic statement in the air and hope it sticks because to actually use that noggin of yours would be too much!

Glad you edited out the bit about your giving up hope. You should know that these people are ultimately irrelevant. They do not need to be persuaded and are not an impediment to changing the direction of the country. The more empathetic among us will pity their pathetic existences, but that's all the emotion worthy of being spent. If you want to see change, keep doing what you're doing and talk to those who are open to it. There are more than enough of us to make change inevitable.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

I'm sure you lack any understanding of our current economic and social conditions and their wider global context beyond simplified talking points like those you spout, and they'd be funny if they were parody but...

POE'S LAW ALERT!! POE'S LAW ALERT!!

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

that's really my only gripe with Manos, he just performs really wild logical gymnastics and if you actually analyze his beliefs holistically he's with the movements ideals generally on every step.

It's just when he's caught he plays typical 'right winger' games like one liners and 'gotchas!' like these clowns who come into the thread, spit out vile putrid excuses of 'thoughts', and watch the lol's. and btw i was definitely joking about the Franco joke, it just went well. I wouldn't actually call someone a fascist without a bucket of irony.

 

[kame-sennin]

Oakland police toss a flashbang into a crowd helping an injured person.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqNOPZLw03Q&feature=youtu.be

WHAT THE FUCK.

There is no justification whatsoever for that.

Shameful.

 

[Alpha-Bromega]

Glad you edited out the bit about your giving up hope. You should know that these people are ultimately irrelevant. They do not need to be persuaded and are not an impediment to changing the direction of the country. The more empathetic among us will pity their pathetic existences, but that's all the emotion worthy of being spent. If you want to see change, keep doing what you're doing and talk to those who are open to it. There are more than enough of us to make change inevitable.

it's just one of those things, like, are these the people worth helping? they clearly support the conditions despite being in every way the bad end of a balance sum game.

but i'm rooted too deep in Christian humanism, and thinking of the people I see struggle every day and work their bodies until they are almost completely broken, yet literally have to make the decision of either eating or getting healthcare, and I think it's worth it. so, i do have hope, for those peoples sake.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

You just seem to be applying logic in such way that is always against these demonstrations, and I'm truly can't figure out why.
I mean, you don't seem to be naturally politically aligned to categorically oppose such movement.
Is this only because you thought they're stupid and would die out and you need to somehow justify your position?
FWIW, I also thought they were stupid hippies that wouldn't last a day.
But I'm happy to admit I was wrong.

I just truly don't think they will achieve anything in the end. I dislike how they are presenting their claims and themselves, including horribly fringe ideas and people, having unrealistic demands, the squatting, and just wasting (and they are) governmental resources. Honestly, I think what occur ed in Oakland and Atlanta will become far more common and more damaging, eventually more people who expressed support for them in full or part will want a restoration of order and eviction of the various groups. The lack of real organization and any attempt to create a political base will further doom them to irrelevance and hurt those who support some similar issues by association and alienating the public from wanting to support them.

I'm getting bored of that military talk, so unless really want to press the issue, I'll drop it, I said what I had to say.

That's fine, it's one of those things I could go on endlessly about, like talking movies or stuff like that.

 

[Puddles]

Did the protesters in Oakland do anything to deserve having tear gas and/or flash-bangs used against them? Serious question. All I've seen in the videos is police brutality with no context.

 

[kame-sennin]

Did the protesters in Oakland do anything to deserve having tear gas and/or flash-bangs used against them? Serious question. All I've seen in the videos is police brutality with no context.

In this video the police seem to be saying that they will use tear gas if the protesters don't leave, which would suggest that the police brutality was unprovoked:

http://www.ktvu.com/video/29587714/index.html

 

[Lucky Forward]

City Hall declares Occupy Baltimore's camping illegal

City officials declared Tuesday that overnight camping is illegal at the downtown plaza where protesters with the Occupy Baltimore movement have been staying in tents for three weeks.

The decision frustrated many of the protesters, but city officials did not say whether the group would be cleared from McKeldin Square, at the intersection of Pratt and Light streets.

A spokesman for Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake said officials would enforce "individual acts of illegal behavior on a case-by-case basis."

According to a memo from the agency, officials asked the protesters to limit their gatherings to two people overnight and to stay confined to a smaller area of the square during the day. In exchange, the city offered to provide 10 tents for the protesters during the day to shield them from the elements and to allow a portable toilet at the square.

 

[kame-sennin]

I just truly don't think they will achieve anything in the end. I dislike how they are presenting their claims and themselves, including horribly fringe ideas and people, having unrealistic demands, the squatting, and just wasting (and they are) governmental resources. Honestly, I think what occur ed in Oakland and Atlanta will become far more common and more damaging, eventually more people who expressed support for them in full or part will want a restoration of order and eviction of the various groups. The lack of real organization and any attempt to create a political base will further doom them to irrelevance and hurt those who support some similar issues by association and alienating the public from wanting to support them.

I disagree with your predictions, but I'm interested in the first thing you said. You don't like how they're going about achieving their goals. If there was no OWS, and you were in charge of creating a movement to address these problems, how would you go about it? I'm legitimately interested in your point of view, and discussing alternative means of change hasn't happened very much in this thread.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

In this video the police seem to be saying that they will use tear gas if the protesters don't leave, which would suggest that the brutality was unprovoked:

http://www.ktvu.com/video/29587714/index.html

You mean by the police or the protesters who ignored an order to disperse?

I disagree with your predictions, but I'm interested in the first thing you said. You don't like how they're going about achieving their goals. If there was no OWS, and you were in charge of creating a movement to address these problems, how would you go about it?

I'd look to history and see what works, in this case elements of the Civil Rights movement. I'd also work hard to keep the fringe elements out, but still diverse (age, race, income), well manned, and clean. I'd keep a focused message with actual specific demands/solutions, and stick to that. I would also use protest marches, not squatting or "occupation", but ones that attract attention and are not disruptive. People like a group more that says we've protesting here to help ensure people are not negatively impacted on their commute.