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[Fenderputty]

Something being a law doesn't make it right. If all forms of protest were illegal, would you still support every protester being dragged off to jail? Illegally occuppying a park as a form of civil disobedience isn't even on the same scale as the fraud and corruption they are protesting, yet the number of protesters arrested has numbered in the thousands, while the number of people jailed for causing the financial meltdown is still zero. What good are laws if there is no justice?

But don't you understand man!!! Their both wrong!!!

 

[captmcblack]

Does that report indicate how the guy 'touched' the cop?
Did he attack him? Was he pushed into the cop? Did he deliberately attempt to touch the officer's cap?

Or is this a "cops are golden, don't touch cops" deal?

 

[StuKen]

Hopefully they stop by Tos Torros and pick up a delicious steak taco to fuel their anti-corporate greed rage.

Try harder.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

A brief clash in Zuccotti Park around 1:35 p.m. ended with a protester led out with blood streaming down his face. Witnesses, including a Reuters photographer, said the protester had flicked the hat off the head of an officer standing just outside the barricades at the edge of the park, then run off into the crowd in the park.

What an idiot, does he have any idea what could have happened?

Does that report indicate how the guy 'touched' the cop?
Did he attack him? Was he pushed into the cop? Did he deliberately attempt to touch the officer's cap?

Or is this a "cops are golden, don't touch cops" deal?

Yes, he did. He nearly provoked a riot apparently.

 

[Fenderputty]

$1 million annual income - tax 20%
$800,000 left over


$40k annual income - tax 20%
$32,000 left over

Do you see a problem there?

Also, those who make millions have many more opportunities to find tax loopholes and write offs than those who make $35-40k.

A flat tax for all isn't fair, sorry.

Nor is it functional. Even Reagan understood this.

 

[Angry Fork]

What an idiot, does he have any idea what could have happened?

.

OH NO WW3 is going to break out for tipping off a cops hat.

Yea this is what I'm talking about. This mentality is all within the police state as well which is why I have little sympathy for them.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

2:55 PMAnjali MullanyKerry Burke is at Union Square, where he says about 400 protesters have congregated at the north side of the park. About 100 of the protesters walked up University Place from NYU.

It's raining, and there are more umbrellas on the scene than signs. The protesters are chanting:

"Students and workers, shut the city down!"
"Money for jobs and education, not police and corporations!"

Meanwhile, Jennifer Cunningham is following several hundred protesters as they march up to Union Square past City Hall, chanting "Hey hey! Ho ho! Bloomberg has got to go!"

Read more: http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/S..._raid_on_Occupy_Wall_Street_NYC#ixzz1dzk6vuOW

Workers of the World Unite! lol

 

[Dude Abides]

Or is this a "cops are golden, don't touch cops" deal?

Yes. A citizen getting beat down or pepper-sprayed is cause for hilarity. A cop getting slightly disrespected is a tragedy and a grave insult that demands swift and harsh retribution.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Yes. A citizen getting beat down or pepper-sprayed is cause for hilarity. A cop getting slightly disrespected is a tragedy and an insult that demands swift and harsh retribution.

You're in the NLG aren't you?

 

[Pai Pai Master]

That picture is hilarious. Can't feel bad for an idiot like that.

 

[minus_273]

Read more: http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/S..._raid_on_Occupy_Wall_Street_NYC#ixzz1dzk6vuOW

Workers of the World Unite! lol

"3:02 PMAnjali MullanyIn Union Square, the crowd has swelled to over 500 protesters.

Using the human mic, protesters called out to ask which schools are represented at the rally.

"NYU? - the crowd exploded.

"Hunter?" - the crowd exploded.

"Any CUNY school?" - the crod exploded.

"Columbia?" - dead silence. After some nervous laughter, the boos rang out.

Now 8 speakers are slated to speak.

Thanks to Kerry Burke in Union Square for this report."


fucking columbia, always knew they were just poser hipsters.

 

[Fenderputty]

What an idiot, does he have any idea what could have happened?


Yes, he did. He nearly provoked a riot apparently.

Not that I think it's a smart idea to ever do anything to a cop (this includes even looking at them), but if the kid just flipped his hat off I don't see why he needs to be bleeding from the head so much.

 

[Barrett2]

Apparently my cousin is in Zucotti right now. Gotta hand it to him, I greatly respect him driving all the way across the country to participate. Hell of a college road trip.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Nor is it functional. Even Reagan understood this.

It's functional if you cut medicare, medicaid, health care, social security, and every other social program. Of course the middle class will become poorer but hey, the wealthy will be fine and the deficit will be cut!

 

[gcubed]

think of the escalation though!! Stupid protesters, knock off a hat and get the shit beat out of you. Its only escalation if the protesters do it, if the cops do it its beating back hippies.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Not that I think it's a smart idea to ever do anything to a copy (this includes even looking at them), but if the kid just flipped his hat off I don't see why he needs to be bleeding from the head so much.

I suspect it's from when he ran into the crowd and they tried to get him. It also looks like an officer fell too.

Keep in mind water/sweet mixed with a small cut can produce the appearance of far more worse injuries than in reality what occurred.

 

[minus_273]

It's functional if you cut medicare, medicaid, health care, social security, and every other social program. Of course the middle class will become poorer but hey, the wealthy will be fine and the deficit will be cut!

the US needs a maximum income law. No one allowed to earn more than 100k. that will fix the problem. This was proposed in the early 20th century but capitalist pigs like FDR opposed it.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

the US needs a maximum income law. No one allowed to earn more than 100k. that will fix the problem. This was proposed in the early 20th century but capitalist pigs like FDR opposed it.

What? No. That is a dumbass proposition. Seriously? No.

Edit: Oh, you're being sarcastic.

 

[gcubed]

the US needs a maximum income law. No one allowed to earn more than 100k. that will fix the problem. This was proposed in the early 20th century but capitalist pigs like FDR opposed it.

why are you here?

 

[talisayNon]

this is hilarious. good job bloomberg. had you let nature take its course and let the unwashed masses stay in zucatti you would never had these mobilized assholes all over financial district/downtown new york.

I can't wait until your approval rating is released. Everyone hates you. lolz.

 

[minus_273]

What? No. That is a dumbass proposition. Seriously? No.

Edit: Oh, you're being sarcastic.

are you part of the 99% or the 1%?

 

[marrec]

What an idiot, does he have any idea what could have happened?

Yes, he did. He nearly provoked a riot apparently.

*Cop cut on the hand, reason unknown*

Manos: Protesters getting violent now! You shouldn't attack police officers!

*Cops beat the shit out of some young guy who touched a hat*

Manos: HAHA

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

are you part of the 99% or the 1%?

lol wtf?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Over 700 protesters - mostly in their early 20s - are taking part in an energetic rally in Union Square, where our Kerry Burke is on the scene.

Free education is a theme of the speeches.

When an Occupy Wall Street organizer shouted, "We are the students of New York City and we demand a free education!", the crowd exploded in cheers.

When a young woman from Pratt declared, "Education should be as free as air and water," she was received with big cheers.

Read more: http://live.nydailynews.com/Event/S..._raid_on_Occupy_Wall_Street_NYC#ixzz1dzmqRnwD

Well I guess it would be easier to major in art or design then. lol

*Cop cut on the hand, reason unknown*

Manos: Protesters getting violent now! You shouldn't attack police officers!

*Cops beat the shit out of some young guy who touched a hat*

Manos: HAHA

One was provocation and the other was not.

 

[Dude Abides]

What? No. That is a dumbass proposition. Seriously? No.

Edit: Oh, you're being sarcastic.

minus_273
This is what Objectivism
does to people

Objectivism

 

[akira28]

I suspect it's from when he ran into the crowd and they tried to get him. It also looks like an officer fell too.

Keep in mind water/sweet mixed with a small cut can produce the appearance of far more worse injuries than in reality what occurred.

But it doesn't make it look like you've just had a red dye job at the stylist. Minimizing what's on the image right in front of you? Do you really think the police need you to advocate for them?

He's got blood in his eyes, streaming from his forehead, and you say he might have a little scratch on the back of his head, made worse by the rain...dang.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

But it doesn't make it look like you've just had a red dye job at the stylist. Minimizing what's on the image right in front of you? Do you really think the police need you to advocate for them?

Actually it does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blading_(professional_wrestling)

 

[minus_273]

lol wtf?

WE ARE THE 99% THIS IS OUR PROPOSAL:
• No person would be allowed to accumulate a personal net worth of more than 300 times the average family fortune, which would limit personal assets to between $5 million and $8 million. A graduated capital levy tax would be assessed on all persons with a net worth exceeding $1 million.
• Annual incomes would be limited to $1 million and inheritances would be capped at $5 million.
• Every family was to be furnished with a homestead allowance of not less than one-third the average family wealth of the country. Every family was to be guaranteed an annual family income of at least $2,000 to $2,500, or not less than one-third of the average annual family income in the United States. Yearly income, however, cannot exceed more than 300 times the size of the average family income.
• An old-age pension would be made available for all persons over 60.
• To balance agricultural production, the government would preserve/store surplus goods, abolishing the practice of destroying surplus food and other necessities due to lack of purchasing power.
• Veterans would be paid what they were owed (a pension and healthcare benefits).
• Free education and training for all students to have equal opportunities in all schools, colleges, universities, and other institutions for training in the professions and vocations of life.
• The raising of revenue and taxes for the support of this program was to come from the reduction of swollen fortunes from the top, as well as for the support of public works to give employment whenever there may be any slackening necessary in private enterprise.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

WE ARE THE 99% THIS IS OUR PROPOSAL:
• No person would be allowed to accumulate a personal net worth of more than 300 times the average family fortune, which would limit personal assets to between $5 million and $8 million. A graduated capital levy tax would be assessed on all persons with a net worth exceeding $1 million.
• Annual incomes would be limited to $1 million and inheritances would be capped at $5 million.
• Every family was to be furnished with a homestead allowance of not less than one-third the average family wealth of the country. Every family was to be guaranteed an annual family income of at least $2,000 to $2,500, or not less than one-third of the average annual family income in the United States. Yearly income, however, cannot exceed more than 300 times the size of the average family income.
• An old-age pension would be made available for all persons over 60.
• To balance agricultural production, the government would preserve/store surplus goods, abolishing the practice of destroying surplus food and other necessities due to lack of purchasing power.
• Veterans would be paid what they were owed (a pension and healthcare benefits).
• Free education and training for all students to have equal opportunities in all schools, colleges, universities, and other institutions for training in the professions and vocations of life.
• The raising of revenue and taxes for the support of this program was to come from the reduction of swollen fortunes from the top, as well as for the support of public works to give employment whenever there may be any slackening necessary in private enterprise.

...

So are you trying to argue that the movement is dangerous, ignorant, and that the proposal is bad for this country? Or are you in agreement with the proposal and thereby think I am supporting the 1% because I don't believe a limit is worthwhile?

 

[Hex]

Not that I think it's a smart idea to ever do anything to a cop (this includes even looking at them), but if the kid just flipped his hat off I don't see why he needs to be bleeding from the head so much.

Because little Barny bad ass thought that knocking a cops hat off of his head and then running into the crowd was funny, and then when they got to him do you really think he went calmly?
You can see him kicking while they are trying to drag him away in one of the pics also.
For fuck sake giving fuckwits like this any remote sympathy is really doing a huge disservice to the rest of the people out there trying to actually make a difference.
Fucking admit that not everyone out there is out there for the right reason and get off of the whole victim bullshit.

 

[Evlar]

Raise your hand if you know who Huey Long was.

<raises hand>

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Raise your hand if you know who Huey Long was.

<raises hand>

<raises hand>

 

[marrec]

Raise your hand if you know who Huey Long was.

<raises hand>

He's that pornstar right?

*loljk*

 

[minus_273]

Raise your hand if you know who Huey Long was.

<raises hand>

as stated above by someone else, a guy with "dumbass proposals".

 

[captmcblack]

Provocation? The guy is a cop - a trained professional. He is supposed to know and do better than beat people's brains in (or ask for backup so they can beat people's brains in) just for getting his hat knocked off.

I'm not saying we should be touching up on cops randomly (I'm a young, dark-skinned black man in/from NYC; that would be straight TOMFOOLERY on my part to do so), but yeah...don't think that force is justified, really.

 

[Evlar]

as stated above by someone else, a guy with "dumbass proposals".

Mind telling us why you're quoting his platform without attribution?

 

[akira28]

Actually it does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blading_(professional_wrestling)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Flairwmx8blood.jpg/640px-Flairwmx8blood.jpg

The staged theatrics for expressed purposes of appearing bloody versus a relatively dry looking kid except for the head covered in blood, it's not really comparing really well, for me. You might have raised doubt in a court jury, but it's not really looking all that applicable here.

 

[minus_273]

...

So are you trying to argue that the movement is dangerous, ignorant, and that the proposal is bad for this country? Or are you in agreement with the proposal and thereby think I am supporting the 1% because I don't believe a limit is worthwhile?

as you can see by the achievements in NY, the movement will succeed and every man will be a king, yet none shall wear a crown!

 

[marrec]

Provocation? The guy is a cop - a trained professional. He is supposed to know and do better than beat people's brains in (or ask for backup so they can beat people's brains in) just for getting his hat knocked off.

I'm not saying we should be touching up on cops randomly (I'm a young, dark-skinned black man in/from NYC; that would be straight TOMFOOLERY on my part to do so), but yeah...don't think that force is justified, really.

Don't get me wrong, dude was trying to provoke the cop. Problem is the Cop allowed himself to be provoked.

Dude was a.. provocateur?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

Provocation? The guy is a cop - a trained professional. He is supposed to know and do better than beat people's brains in (or ask for backup so they can beat people's brains in) just for getting his hat knocked off.
.

Your assuming the injury was actually severe though. Like I said I really think it's be unintentionally made to look worse by the elements than it really is.

 

[eznark]

Occupy Wall Street Divided

Ahahaha

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-november-16-2011/occupy-wall-street-divided

Manos, you'll love it.

Finally watched it. Hilarious

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

as you can see by the achievements in NY, the movement will succeed and every man will be a king, yet none shall wear a crown!

So how about you actually state where you stand in all of this instead of beating around the bush.

 

[kame-sennin]

First hand account of the raid:

The text messages and twitter feed started blowing up around 1:30 am Monday morning. Occupy Wall Street was being violently, brutally evicted. I bolted immediately for Liberty Square, not really sure what value I could offer, but I had to be there if only to take one last look at my community. Trains ran slow and nowhere near that area of the financial district. Absolutely every aspect of this shut down was being done to minimize the public outcry. NYPD moved in like it was a war zone, literally bulldozing our infrastructure. There was liberal use of pepper spray/tear gas/batons. Little warning was given and no time offered for people to clear their personal belongings. In Oakland a few weeks ago, a couple of black bloc protesters broke off and smashed a window or two. Media declared vandalism by protesters. What happened on Nov. 15 by police was the deliberate destruction and discarding of people's private property by the entire NYPD - the literal definition of vandalism. How many media outlets describe it as such? Zero. They reveal their statist bias. For some of these people, they lost literally everything they own in this world. Vandalism is, if anything, too kind a word.

Arriving a little before 3:00 am, sprinting from Canal St. only to find the park barricaded and inaccessible from blocks away, even to media. NYPD pushed us north as a fellow protester showed me a youtube video already posted of the cops indiscriminately teargassing our beloved and completely peaceful kitchen crew. Worming my way around to the south side of the park I saw a couple familiar faces - two people righteously and defiantly walking back and forth on the little block of street they were barricaded in on and chanting - a mini-march on Wall Street. An impotent gesture? Maybe. But if we were going down, we were going down kicking and screaming.

Eventually word got around that people were congregating in Foley Square, so we organized a march with people at Wall St. to get up there. I helped pull a bin on wheels while people threw in whatever personal property they managed to salvage. At Foley, we consented to solidarity in our action and marched to a planned rally at Duarte Square to meet up with organized labor and interfaith spiritual leaders. I say this as a largely irreligious man, but when those priests, rabbis, imams marched into that square like the damn cavalry and everyone erupted in cheers, it gave me chills.

Then began the plan to occupy the adjacent lot. Owned by Trinity Church (who have been supportive of OWS) we took the reasonable chance that they wouldn't evict. At the moment they were holding a delegation to decide on granting us permission. Some hopped the wall until others cut through the chain link and about 50 of us piled into the unused lot. Then, the NYPD showed up in force. We were told this was trespassing and could mean up to a year in prison so I bailed. I was arrestable, but I wasn't that arrestable. At least 15 brave individuals stood their ground, while Amin, an organizer at OWS, acted as liason between the police, the protesters, and the radical priests come to get us released through Trinity Church (who despite their best efforts, could not get the property owners on the phone). Amin didn't enter the lot except to briefly relay what other parties had said verbatim to the protesters.

Just outside the lot one officer started pushing a couple of us with hate in his eyes - just a nasty, aggressive, power-crazed dude with too much testosterone coursing through his body. Pushing me into a wheelchair-bound woman behind me, I shouted "There's a woman in a wheelchair here, show some compassion!" At which point the officer standing next to him had to step in and calm his partner down. Even he seemed uncomfortable with what he and his fellow officers were doing at this point.

What followed was truly one of those awful images that stays with you. Amin, again standing outside the privately-owned lot was grabbed violently by three officers and hurled to the ground like a rag doll. No justification for why he was being arrested whatsoever at the time. The actual reason, I would imagine, is that the police have a very difficult time comprehending horizontalism. When all they know is the chain of command, they can't really comprehend power in any other form. So whoever is doing the most talking at any given moment is surely the clandestine secret leader of OWS and taking him/her down will surely leave the rest of us wandering around aimlessly.

The rest of the cops moved in and started coming down hard on the 15 or so still in the lot. A lot of elbows and knees thrown. It's still unclear to me exactly what authorized the police action at Duarte Square. The private owners of the park gave neither permission nor request to leave. I'm not sure if the absence of either legally justifies police to call it trespassing, because presumably only the private owners of the private property can say if someone isn't permitted to be there. A high-ranking officer on site said he got the go ahead he needed, but it certainly wasn't Trinity that gave it. In any case, I can't imagine Trinity pressing charges so hopefully the legal ramifications are nonexistent.

By this point it was about 1 pm and we decided to march back to Zuccotti. Frustrations had boiled over and we marched directly in the street. The prevailing attitude seemed to be that we were tired of being the only lawful party in this conflict. This will be a major consequence of the mayor's actions: violently cracking down on law-abiding protesters only removes incentives to behave lawfully; might as well take this opportunity to be openly defiant.

We had a temporary restraining order on the city/NYPD/FDNY upheld by a lower-circuit court since 6 am. Legally, we had every right to retake the park, even as the city appealed to the New York State Supreme Court. But NYPD and Kings Security (a private firm hired by park owners Brookfield Properties) were barricaded inside, refusing to let us return in direct violation of the law. No reasons were given.

And so these illegal Occupiers held the park for nearly 12 hours. It wasn't clear who the leaders were and they did not have a clearly articulated list of demands. And some protest - they were only hanging out in the park. Don't these people have work to do? "Please disperse in a calm an orderly fashion!" I yelled in to no avail.

I talked to one of the private security guards who seemed nice enough and was sympathetic to our cause, but mostly his attitude about the eviction was "What's the big deal?"

Security: "When the ruling comes in you'll be back in the park."
Me: "You understand this is an appeal right? And legally you have to uphold the latest ruling, which says let us in. Right now you're in contempt of court."
Security: "You'll be let back in soon enough and look, you'll have a nice clean park."
Me: "Yeah a little too clean. We're missing a few things."

Bloomberg and the NYPD's strategy seemed to be ignore the legality until the legality is in their favor. They didn't want to have to let us back in immediately because it would mean we could have our tents and structures. Around 5 pm the ruling came in and we lost and they announced we'd be let back in with many caveats. There was now only one entrance and one exit among the barricades for the thousands to use - kudos Bloomberg on fixing the "fire hazard" that was Occupy Wall Street. Prohibiting tents and structure was to be expected, there's legal president for that, but now they would not be allowing sleeping bags, tarps, blankets, large bags (size not specified and cops seemed to be totally using their own discretion on the matter), etc. Basically, Brookfield went to the park, wrote a list of things any protester had on them, and made them against the rules. They also searched all bags upon entry. I went to one of the National Lawyers Guild team members (who are total bad asses by the way, not only fighting for us in court but putting themselves in the most dangerous areas of police crackdowns to observe arrests) and asked if he knew they were searching bags and how did this not constitute illegal search and seizure. "Certainly raises a lot of 4th amendment issues in my mind," he answered. It's also unclear to me how Brookfield can use tax-funded police to enforce private rules. They should legally have to use their own private security team.

But we had the park back. Within 10 minutes, the People's Library was back up, recollecting from scratch, but already had more books than when I first came to OWS 7 weeks ago. (I've just heard NYPD again confiscated their books, along with breakfast bars water, none of which are even prohibited in the new "rules.") By 7 pm we held our General Assembly on schedule, one of the largest GA's we've ever had. And November 17 looks to be a day of major response and nonviolent direct action.

http://danielmwolff.blogspot.com/2011/11/on-november-15th.html

 

[marrec]

Your assuming the injury was actually severe though. Like I said I really think it's be unintentionally made to look worse by the elements than it really is.

Head wounds bleed a lot.

Looks like he got his face mashed up a bit too.

 

[captmcblack]

You think protesters are preemptively cutting themselves so they can bleed more when attacked by cops? Or is this a Bill O'Reilly "now I'm not saying that..." style thing?

Manos, you know I'm down with all NYC-GAF, and I love that you are here in these threads if only to ensure there's a counterpoint to break the echo chamber sometimes...but c'mon, man.

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

The staged theatrics for expressed purposes of appearing bloody versus a relatively dry looking kid except for the head covered in blood, it's not really comparing really well, for me. You might have raised doubt in a court jury, but it's not really looking all that applicable here.

The kids was most likely sweating and covered in rain. That's all that's needed.

It's like having a nose bleed in the shower, it looks like a Hong Kong action movie due to the water.

Where is WrassleGAF when I need it!

You think protesters are preemptively cutting themselves so they can bleed more when attacked by cops? Or is this a Bill O'Reilly "now I'm not saying that..." style thing?

Manos, you know I'm down with all NYC-GAF, and I love that you are here in these threads if only to ensure there's a counterpoint to break the echo chamber sometimes...but c'mon, man.

No not at all, I'm saying he cut his head (unintentionally on the ground) when he fell and mixed with the elements it made him look like the Great Muta or Ric Flair. You don't have to cut yourself.

Prior to the advent of blading, most storyline blood in wrestling came from one wrestler deliberately splitting the flesh over their opponent's eyebrow bone with a well placed and forceful punch.[5] In his third autobiography The Hardcore Diaries, Mick Foley cites Terry Funk as one of the few remaining active wrestlers who knows how to "bust an eyebrow open" in this way. The forehead has always been the preferred blading surface, due to the abundance of blood vessels. A cut in this area will bleed freely for quite some time and will heal quickly.[2] A cut in this location will allow the blood to mix in with the sweat on the wrestler's face, giving them the proverbial "crimson mask" effect.

 

[Alucrid]

Provocation? The guy is a cop - a trained professional. He is supposed to know and do better than beat people's brains in (or ask for backup so they can beat people's brains in) just for getting his hat knocked off.

I'm not saying we should be touching up on cops randomly (I'm a young, dark-skinned black man in/from NYC; that would be straight TOMFOOLERY on my part to do so), but yeah...don't think that force is justified, really.

When the cops catch you and then you resist arrest, then what?

 

[akira28]

The kids was most likely sweating and covered in rain. That's all that's needed.

It's like having a nose bleed in the shower, it looks like a Hong Kong action movie due to the water.

So are we still distracted from the fact that his head was probably opened up by a police baton? For basically embarrassing a police officer in public?

 

[Manos: The Hans of Fate]

So are we still distracted from the fact that his head was probably opened up by a police baton? For basically embarrassing a police officer in public?

No, I'm saying it may have occurred when he fell or was on the ground.

 

[minus_273]

=

mark my words this will be an iconic image of the victory of the proletariat. this is our generations tank man. OWS is our generations berlin wall!