I love Jericho. Easily in my top 3 favourites of all time. Guys like Bret Hart and Chris Jericho are why I loved wrestling in the first place.
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October Wrasslin |OT| Are you a Kane guy? Hell NO! I'm the tag team champions!
- Thread starter Kaladin
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I love Jericho. Easily in my top 3 favourites of all time. Guys like Bret Hart and Chris Jericho are why I loved wrestling in the first place.
Jericho didn't beat both those guys or enter the main event until after the Attitude Era. I think Punk is great, but I don't think he would have been able to be a perennial main eventer with guys like Rock, Austin, Angle or prime HHH.
BTW, thanks for actually trying to contribute to this thread, Persp.
He's not a good enough wrestler to be in the main event (certainly not as good as Angle), and he's not a good enough talker (as Rock or Austin were). He would have been good enough to be in the upper mid card and maybe once or twice be in the main event, but that's it.Why not? You need to support an opinion after giving it, man.
Not sure how I feel about this.
As Angle?
So what? Not many (if any) were.
I can't agree with this, when he's on point he's one of the best talkers there is, he can hang with Austin. What's more the Attitude Era had a low emphasis on great wrestling, Angle was the minority. Punk would be in the top 5% of wrestlers, ability wise.
Phoenixazure
Member
Although you're not a fan, I still think its worth a watch of CM Punk DVD. Yea he def. has an attitude problem but seeing what he had to go through to get where he is today, i can't really fault him. I am very biased though so it isn't exactly the best opinion but your thoughts on punk remind me of comments that various guys made on punk in the Documentary itself.
Long and short of it is that although he has a big attitude problem and isn't the most enthusiastic person in the public eye, his overall skill level in the ring and on the mic is so much higher against a lot of wrestlers past and present who've only had highs in one or the other that he can hang with the best of them. He's not crazy technical, but he's a great storyteller. But most of all, he's just really passionate about the business.
Long and short of it is that although he has a big attitude problem and isn't the most enthusiastic person in the public eye, his overall skill level in the ring and on the mic is so much higher against a lot of wrestlers past and present who've only had highs in one or the other that he can hang with the best of them. He's not crazy technical, but he's a great storyteller. But most of all, he's just really passionate about the business.
WTF? I am a fan. I already said that I think he's great, and I've already seen the ROH tape. I've already seen most of his matches outside of WWE, anyway.
- Thursday's IMPACT will feature the aftermath of the "Bound For Glory" Pay-Per-View event! Come see the fallout and updates from the biggest TNA Pay-Per-View event of the year!
- Appearing will be NEW World Heavyweight Champion "The Charismatic Enigma" Jeff Hardy, who regained the title on Sunday night in the "Bound For Glory" main event! Plus, how will Austin Aries react to the defeat?
- Also at "Bound For Glory", to the total shock of Brother Ray and the entire wrestling world, DEVON was revealed with The Aces & 8s! Now that he has been exposed, what will be the fallout? What does the gang have planned next? Don't miss Thursday's LIVE show!
- New champions were crowned at "Bound For Glory" as Rob Van Dam captured the X Division Championship, Hernandez and Chavo Guerrero became the new World Tag Team Champions and Tara won the Knockouts gold! The new titleholders are all scheduled to be at IMPACT this Thursday!
Plus, news on the upcoming "Turning Point" Pay-Per-View event on Sunday, November 11 from Universal Studios in Orlando!
- Appearing will be NEW World Heavyweight Champion "The Charismatic Enigma" Jeff Hardy, who regained the title on Sunday night in the "Bound For Glory" main event! Plus, how will Austin Aries react to the defeat?
- Also at "Bound For Glory", to the total shock of Brother Ray and the entire wrestling world, DEVON was revealed with The Aces & 8s! Now that he has been exposed, what will be the fallout? What does the gang have planned next? Don't miss Thursday's LIVE show!
- New champions were crowned at "Bound For Glory" as Rob Van Dam captured the X Division Championship, Hernandez and Chavo Guerrero became the new World Tag Team Champions and Tara won the Knockouts gold! The new titleholders are all scheduled to be at IMPACT this Thursday!
Plus, news on the upcoming "Turning Point" Pay-Per-View event on Sunday, November 11 from Universal Studios in Orlando!
I view it was two things. You either had to be an amazing wrestler OR deliver great promos. I don't think Punk's promo work was as good as Rock or Austin's, and he wasn't as good as Angle. Throughout the entire Attitude Era, the only guys who consistently main evented were Rock, Austin, Angle, and HHH. Occasionally, Taker, Big Show, or Kane (and that month where Benoit was in it).
Punk would have had a good month or two, but I don't think he would have consistently main evented.
I disagree with the hang with Austin comment. Maybe on a really good day, but Austin, imo, was the best there ever was when it came to promos. Punk isn't on the "best there ever was" pedestal. He's not Flair, Dusty, HBK, Rock. Just not in my opinion. Certainly good, but like I said, Jericho couldn't crack the main event during the attitude era, and Jericho is better than Punk, imo.
Mr. Enigma
Member
WWE.Com Where Are They Now? Todd Pettengill
Pretty big piece of news in this. He said when his contract expired in September 1997, he didn't want to renew. Vince asked him if he knew anyone that could do the job as well as he did. Todd said he had a news guy in Albany, NY that he recommended.
And thus, Michael Cole was hired in October 1997.
Pretty big piece of news in this. He said when his contract expired in September 1997, he didn't want to renew. Vince asked him if he knew anyone that could do the job as well as he did. Todd said he had a news guy in Albany, NY that he recommended.
And thus, Michael Cole was hired in October 1997.
Perspicacity
Banned
Saying Jericho wasn't main event in the attitude era seems like a rather arbitrary distinction. He was active in the WWF and Main Eventing at the same time as: Rock, Austin, HHH, Angle, BikerTaker. I think the only person who is definitive "Attitude Era" who wasn't full time as Jericho was champ would be Foley.
CM Punk is a top tier talker no matter how you look at it. It's just that he's in a class shared by people like Foley and Dusty, not Rock and Austin. CM Punk can speak in a realistic manner to convey real emotions while Rock and Austin's strengths are in hyping a crowd/building a catchphrase. Both are important, but no one could ever do both perfectly.
CM Punk is a top tier talker no matter how you look at it. It's just that he's in a class shared by people like Foley and Dusty, not Rock and Austin. CM Punk can speak in a realistic manner to convey real emotions while Rock and Austin's strengths are in hyping a crowd/building a catchphrase. Both are important, but no one could ever do both perfectly.
No, he was not. Jericho was getting buried in pointless IC feuds (with Chyna and Road Dogg) for much of the attitude era. Jericho himself wrote in his book how Vince told him that he regretted signing him. That's low opinion was of him in that time period. Jericho didn't become champion until after the attitude era ended (which was WM 17). Jericho most certainly was not main eventing during the attitude era.
On another note, the attitude era was a time period where Vince was obsessed with big guys. I don't see how a flabby straight edge Punk could make it, honestly. Yeah, Angle was small too, but Angle had huge muscles, and Foley was huge in his own way. HBK was pretty muscular too (and he main evented during the early attitude era). I don't see how Punk could make it in that atmosphere.
billy beane
Banned
Who gives a shit if CM Punk could make it in the Attitude Era. The real question is could he have made it where the big boys play.
The answer is no.
Jericho could have main evented in the attitude era easily. He was super over at that time in the WWE. The problem was backstage politics and heat he got from coming in from the WCW. Vince told him that because all the crap got to him and his matches were horrible at the time. If didn't come and get all the heat he got he easily could of been in the main event.
He was supposed to be in the main event of Wrestlemania 2000 at one point as well.
Angle did main event but man he was booked like a goof throughout his early career.
He was supposed to be in the main event of Wrestlemania 2000 at one point as well.
Angle did main event but man he was booked like a goof throughout his early career.
That's fine, if you think so. However, it's only Vince's opinion that matters on this. Now, if he didn't feel that Jericho was good enough at the time (and I think Jericho agreed with him in his book), then what makes you think he would have thought a guy with less muscles than Jericho, and worse in ring ability (Jericho is a better wrestler), and arguably weaker mic skills could main event?
Guys like Angle didn't get a chance initially because of Triple H. I reckon that's the same reason Jericho wasn't catapulted up as he should have been.
You can he say deserved to be there, because it's absolutely true, but you can make arguments for multiple guys now with this dead, tiresome, and boring "main event" scene of 2012.
You can he say deserved to be there, because it's absolutely true, but you can make arguments for multiple guys now with this dead, tiresome, and boring "main event" scene of 2012.
Perspicacity
Banned
They didn't pack up and say "Well, that's the end of the attitude era" at any specific time, but if you'd really need to draw a line in the sand I would say it would be when Brock Lesnar showed up and kicked off the "Ruthless Aggression" era after 18, as there was a pretty dramatic shift to athleticism at that point.
Of course not, WCW was big for two kinds of coke and Punk doesn't touch either of them
slightconfuse
Banned
i had no idea todd pettengill worked in the wwe. his radio show is pretty good
billy beane
Banned
I think WWE themselves consider WrestleMania X-Seven the end of the Attitude Era.
Professor Beef
Banned
I'd be a 10-time Hardcore Champion, AND I would retire with the belt.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Note the adjective, "play". CM Punk doesn't "play".
Nope. Your alignment with Ryback means you're getting screwjobbed in Beefville before you get to retire with the belt.
That's not how it's historically seen by most people, I believe. The attitude era started at WM 13 and ended at WM 17. If you notice, WM 13 was when Austin pretty much became a face, and ended when Austin became a heel. It's also when WWE bought WCW.
Even if I were to agree with you, though, Lesnar showed up right after WM 18. Jericho became champion (and he really wasn't included in the main event until then) in December of 2001, then lost the title at WM 18, and was immediately dropped from the main event (to make room for Hogan and Rock, and Taker). That would mean that he was a main eventer for a total of about four months of the attitude era. So, by your own criteria, no, he was not on the level of those other guys you mentioned.
Phoenixazure
Member
My apologies. I don't mean his ROH tape. I mean his new WWE Documentary. Give it a watch.
Most of it is stuff I've already seen, but thanks for the recommendation.
billy beane
Banned
Rikishi was in more main events than Jericho during the Attitude Era.
Rikishi>Jericho.
Rikishi>Jericho.
Here's wikipedia on the Attitude Era. They say it started September of 95, and ended at WM 17. I disagree on the starting point, but it's obvious that most people consider WM 17 to be the end. Austin went heel, Rock left right afterwards for hollywood, and WWE bought WCW.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Attitude_Era
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Attitude_Era
Oh yeah? Well, the Raiders!
Why you always gotta sink that low, man? We're just having fun and then you take it too far every time!
Mr. Enigma
Member
People say the Attitude Era started in September 1995 because of Goldust.
If I wanted to take it too far, I would bring up the A's, as well.
Or, it could be because that's when Nitro debuted, lol.
Conrad Link
Member
Bound For Glory was really good!
Such a refreshing change of pace to the other place where I get to see the best guy in wrestling lose randomly to fuel other people's feuds no one gives a shit about twice in a row.
Such a refreshing change of pace to the other place where I get to see the best guy in wrestling lose randomly to fuel other people's feuds no one gives a shit about twice in a row.
What a sick and twisted childhood. No wonder you're a Kane fan. You identify with his pain.
HarryDemeanor
Member
Vince would make her use a stripper gimmick for her heel run. So basically her ECW character with a mean streak.
Who are you calling the best guy in wrestling who lost randomly?
Bound for Glory was really but it was another good PPV and the big spectacle like a Mania although Wrestlemania is another story. Given that they pissed away No Surrender I guess this makes up for it? Sure?
Who else could he be talking about? He's clearly talking about Daniel Bryan!
Conrad Link
Member
Daniel Bryan is always the answer to everything.
Professor Beef
Banned
Who could beat Daniel Bryan in a submissions-only match?