jobber
Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
I could say the same about Kurt Angle.
I don't think Ric Flair is the greatest either.
99% his matches followed the same formula. Flair gets beat up and blades but overcomes the odds!
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October Wrasslin |OT| Are you a Kane guy? Hell NO! I'm the tag team champions!
- Thread starter Kaladin
- Start date
I could say the same about Kurt Angle.
I don't think Ric Flair is the greatest either.
99% his matches followed the same formula. Flair gets beat up and blades but overcomes the odds!
I know that I would base my rankings of Flair off when he wrestled in his late 50's. Dude was in his prime!
edit: Superstar ratings for WWE 13
AJ Lee - 77
Alberto Del Rio - 89
Alicia Fox - 76
Animal - 87
Antonio Cesaro - 84
Big Boss Man - 86
Big Show - 92
Beth Phoenix - 78
Billy Gunn - 87
Booker T - 88
Bradshaw - 87
Bret “The Hit Man” Hart - 94
Brian Pillman - 87
Brie Bella - 76
British Bulldog - 88
Brock Lesnar - 92
Brodus Clay - 87
Cactus Jack - 90
Chainsaw Charlie - 86
Chris Jericho - 90
“Attitude Era” Chris Jericho - 89
Christian - 88
“Attitude Era” Christian - 87
CM Punk - 95
Cody Rhodes - 88
Damien Sandow - 84
Daniel Bryan - 91
David Otunga - 84
DDP - 89 better than i thought
Dolph Ziggler - 89
Drew McIntyre - 84
Dude Love - 90
Eddie Guerrero - 92
“Attitude Era” Edge - 88
Edge - 91
Epico - 81
Eve - 77
Faarooq - 87
Gangrel - 85
Godfather - 86
Goldust - 85
Grand Master Sexay - 84
The Great Khali - 84
Hawk - 87
Heath Slater - 82
Hunico - 81
Hunter Hearst Helmsley - 88
Jack Swagger - 87
JBL - 89
Jey Uso - 81
Jimmy Uso - 81
Jinder Mahal - 83
John Cena - 96
John Cena ‘04 - 91 lol
John Laurinaitis - 75 should be 100
Justin Gabriel - 83
Kane - 89
“Attitude Era” Kane - 91
Kelly Kelly - 77
Ken Shamrock - 88
Kevin Nash - 89 lol
Kharma - 79
Kofi Kingston - 87
Layla - 78
Lita - 78
“Attitude Era” Lita - 79
Mankind - 91
Mark Henry - 89
“Attitude Era” Mark Henry - 87
Mike Tyson - 89
The Miz - 88
Mr. McMahon - 81
Natalya - 77
Nikki Bella - 76
Paul Wight - 92
Primo - 81
Randy Orton - 92
Rey Mysterio - 90
Rikishi - 87
Road Dogg - 87
The Rock - 93
“Attitude Era” The Rock - 94
R-Truth - 87
Ryback - 87
Santino Marella - 86
Scotty Too Hotty - 83
Shane McMahon - 82
Shawn Michaels - 95
Sheamus - 90
Sin Cara - 87
Stephanie McMahon - 74
Stone Cold Steve Austin - 95
Ted DiBiase - 82
Tensai - 87
Triple H - 93
“Attitude Era” Triple H - 92 - lol
Trish Stratus - 80
Undertaker - 93
“Attitude Era” Undertaker - 95
Vader - 87
Val Venis - 85
Wade Barrett - 87
X-Pac - 87
Yoshi Tatsu - 81
Zack Ryder - 85
There is only one wrestler that I have ever had at the top of my permanent fave five:
In his prime, Undertaker was the total package. He was a character that always evoked the desired reaction, excellent promos, ecellent manager, excellent backstory, perfect character development.....just the complete package for a wrestler. I didn't even mention his ever evolving moveset and ability to create great matches and moments.
In his prime, Undertaker was the total package. He was a character that always evoked the desired reaction, excellent promos, ecellent manager, excellent backstory, perfect character development.....just the complete package for a wrestler. I didn't even mention his ever evolving moveset and ability to create great matches and moments.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Can you post a bigger pic of the Undertaker? I can barely see that one.
I don't know if you're referring to the smaller, second pic I posted or sarcastically talking about the large pic I posted for a split second.
Bean with some of the most selective pictures I've seen this side of Fox News. All of those pictures are pre-DX and post-career ending back injury.
I don't see the point, though. Obviously Punk isn't some cut up dude. He never has been and doesn't have the genetics for it. So what. Jericho was never really cut up, either. He looked more defined on this run than he ever did in his career. He was big, and at times bulky and puffy, but he was never some super defined guy. The over all issue is I think Punk would have been just fine in the Attitude Era, but not Austin or Rock level. He could have been at the level right below it, though, which is pretty damn good. The level where you are still a top guy in the biggest time period ever and can main event PPVs...but not be the greatest of all time. I don't see the problem with that.
I don't see the point, though. Obviously Punk isn't some cut up dude. He never has been and doesn't have the genetics for it. So what. Jericho was never really cut up, either. He looked more defined on this run than he ever did in his career. He was big, and at times bulky and puffy, but he was never some super defined guy. The over all issue is I think Punk would have been just fine in the Attitude Era, but not Austin or Rock level. He could have been at the level right below it, though, which is pretty damn good. The level where you are still a top guy in the biggest time period ever and can main event PPVs...but not be the greatest of all time. I don't see the problem with that.
That is so my CAW's entrance in WWE 13. He's a deranged masked man with all black attire, long braided beard and a split black and red mask.
bean breath
Member
In terms of height and weight, Punk and Michaels are equal. Michaels may have had more muscle definition but the difference is negligible. Michaels also wore ring gear that accentuated his physique better than Punk's.
If this were a legit combat sport, Punk and Michaels would be in the same weight class.
Again, I'm no expert. I don't know what constitutes a five star match. My method of gauging the quality of a match is whether it can hold my attention or not. To break down the elements of what makes a match entertaining or boring, to put it into words other than, "good match", is beyond me.
All I can say is that I'd put CM Punk's match against John Cena at Money in the Bank right up there with any of Shawn Michaels'. It had that big fight feel. From the promos leading up to it, to his entrance with that hometown crowd. I'd put that entrance above Michaels' zip line entrance, easily. Leaving with the title through the crowd... All of it.
Keep in mind that CM Punk has more restrictions today than in the Attitude Era. Chair shots, hardcore matches, cage matches, street fights, blood, banned moves, etc. Today it all pales in comparison to the attitude era, it's not just a question of CM Punk individually.
Like I said, his physique is the same as Shawn Michaels'.
Ok, so you're saying he's closer to Chris Jericho than Shawn Michaels. First off, Jericho was restricted to the Cruiser Weight division in WCW because of his size, Michaels faced no such restriction in WWF and neither has CM Punk. Backstage politics held Jericho back in WWF, not his size, mic skills, or wrestling ability.
Here's why CM Punk would be the Top Guy in the attitude era just like the guys you've mentioned; Michaels, The Rock, and Austin.
Shawn Michaels got to where he was in the attitude era because of being in the right place at the right time and Vince McMahon believing that he can manufacture anyone into the next Hulk Hogan. He's nothing like Punk and the only reason I'm comparing them is because their physiques are the same.
The Rock had the red carpet rolled out for him because he was a third generation wrestler. He became the Top Guy by dropping the Rocky Maivia gimmick, becoming The Rock and making a huge impact. He relies on a script and is a good actor. Punk didn't have the luxury of being born into wrestling, he doesn't need a script, his entrance theme is better, and his elbow drop is better than Rock's sharpshooter. Punk is better than The Rock.
Stone Cold had Austin 3:16. CM Punk had the Summer of Punk.
Jericho had nothing. His debut was his biggest achievement and he never followed it up with anything.
Punk is not like Jericho.
pants
Member
I've watched since right about from the start of his career. I never bought into his persona and the only time I recall being wowwed by him was against Razor Ramon for the IC title.
previously i mentioned being unable to trade my xbox at gamestop due to crayons being stuffed into the harddrive slot and battery slot. now the kids are crying saying they dont want me to trade it in. what the heck? all they played was castle crashers and they always lost at the second boss! i might end up having to buy a 3ds straight up. Super Mario Stickers looks so good.
congrats Kofi. i always said he should be in the main event hunt.
congrats Kofi. i always said he should be in the main event hunt.
pants
Member
still best Sheamus
I think I got the most out of cowardly Sheamus that ran away from Nexus, I still laugh at this.
Yeah, I'm just going to have to disagree here. Cena/Punk MITB was a great match, but it wasn't as good (or even close, imo) as HBK's best from 1997. Secondly, Jericho wasn't all THAT great in 1999, even he admits it. Rock didn't have a script. Most stuff in the Attitude Era was done without a script. And I don't get your "Austin 3:16, Summer of Punk" comparison. Austin 3:16 was a phenomenon. Summer of Punk is just something we call a brief time period where the general public might have cared about Punk. To me, Punk would have been a good IC champ in the Attitude Era, and nothing more.
What the hell, Punk doesn't have a "bad physique". He just isn't a guy with a lot of definition, but he's obviously in good shape. I don't know why everyone is so obsessed over his lack of a 6 pack. It hasn't held him back, it hasn't hurt his career. He's been the champion for a year. He's been on all the promotional materials. There were a lot of not awesome bodies in the Attitude Era that did just fine for themselves.
TOM f'N CRUISE
Member
Arrowgigantic
Member
Macho Man. Just because he got blackballed by Vince doesn't mean he wasn't the most unique and entertaining personality in wrestling history.
still best Sheamus
What's the difference with current era Sheamus again?
He's being a dick, calling people names.
I guess he says Fella alot more nowadays.
British Monsoon
Member
After years of exposure, they've finally contracted Vince's muscle fetish. And apparently the mark of champion is well defined muscle-tone and performance-enhanced pecs. And, really, there's only one name anyone needs to mention when it comes to the preposterous notion that you need to be built like a brick shithouse to get over as a champion; Dusty.
I don't know, if people are not complaining what else do we have?
I mean, we complain about WWE not building new stars, yet when they push a guy like Sheamus or now Ryback to the moon we complain it's too soon, they're bland, they're not over enough.
Maybe valid points, I mean I for one hate Sheamus' racists face antics, but he is a "new star" and he's been champion for 6 months now. Ryback might be a new star and his push is coming too soon, out of neccesity maybe, but hey at least they're trying.
Same with TNA btw, BFG was a good show, had some good matches (Roode vs. Storm in particular) and Jeff Hardy as champ isn't a bad thought (he IS there biggest earner probably), but we'll still pick apart everything by only looking at the bad parts and making them into the worst thing ever.
Like Kingston winning the title. "He stiffed Miz and busted him open, he's a botch machine AND NOW HE GETS REWARD FOR IT! BOOO!" He botched one spot (and how knows, maybe Miz botched it or it was deliberate stiff for the camera and botched like that) and now he shouldn't ever win a title ever again?
Then again, we're wrestling fans, I guess we just love mindless drama.
There are more than just Dusty (although he is probably THE poster boy for "you don't have to be a body builder to be champion).
Foley, Sgt. Slaughter for fat out of shape looking guys. Backlund and Bret for guys who were clearly in good shape, but certainly didn't have body builder physiques by any stretch. Jeff Hardy and Edge who were both in great shape, but were still scrawny lanky dudes by wrestling standards.
You have guys like Harley Race and Terry Funk, and frankly, I think Flair fits in this. He's never, ever been a guy you look at and were impressed with his body. He was never a big guy and never lost his old fat guy flab. He for sure jiggled more than Punk ever has. Things seemed to work out for him. Well, in the ring at least.
Foley, Sgt. Slaughter for fat out of shape looking guys. Backlund and Bret for guys who were clearly in good shape, but certainly didn't have body builder physiques by any stretch. Jeff Hardy and Edge who were both in great shape, but were still scrawny lanky dudes by wrestling standards.
You have guys like Harley Race and Terry Funk, and frankly, I think Flair fits in this. He's never, ever been a guy you look at and were impressed with his body. He was never a big guy and never lost his old fat guy flab. He for sure jiggled more than Punk ever has. Things seemed to work out for him. Well, in the ring at least.
WHY.
When is the last time John Cena lost a match cleanly?
Extreme Rules against Lesnar?
Ninja-edit: No, because he fucking won that match. I still think he lost that match. That's it! I'm retconning that match into a loss.
Dark Ninja
Member
Do you guys think John Cena has children one day and if so, do you think his children end up being big in the industry?
Personally, I think Cena is such a corporate goober that he never has children, never gets remarried and dies alone as CEO of Cena Wrestling Entertainment (formerly WWE).
Personally, I think Cena is such a corporate goober that he never has children, never gets remarried and dies alone as CEO of Cena Wrestling Entertainment (formerly WWE).
Ugh..even in the games they're trying to shove his "greatness" at us. Highest rated wrestler on the whole roster? :<
TOM f'N CRUISE
Member
made me lol
love it
I always felt that wrestling games should be more akin to fighting games where all challengers have a legit chance of winning. I mean who is going to want to play Heath Slater with such a low rating? It feels like they're in the game for padding. They should make the characters have special perks or attribute so matches are more challenging to play as. Though I guess you could make the analogy that it is supposed to be accurate like a sports game, where there are obvious weaker and stronger players.
Also I'm pretty sure Orton was like a 77 in HCtP.
Also I'm pretty sure Orton was like a 77 in HCtP.
Nocturnowl
Member
If anything the rankings in modern WWE games aren't diverse enough, it's like a modern game review scale, it goes from like 80-100.
Why back in HCTP you'd get stragglers in the mid sixties and someone like Lesnar would tear through them in like 4 moves.
Why back in HCTP you'd get stragglers in the mid sixties and someone like Lesnar would tear through them in like 4 moves.
He's going to be the first CAW that I make.
Why so low?
TALK
STEEN
TALK
The Kevin Steen Interview - 2 Disc Set
Kevin Steen's no holds barred attitude in the ring and on the microphone has made him one of the top performers in pro wrestling today. We sat down with Kevin to talk about his long way to the top of the independent wrestling world. Kevin fully admits that it wasn't easy and he had to claw, scratch and bite a few people along the way.
We talk to Kevin about all the major moments in his career. From his US debut in CZW to his feud with Super Dragon in PWG to his feud with a tennis racket swinging 80's manager in Ring of Honor.
Kevin's passion for wrestling is the reason why he was world champion for Ring of Honor and Pro Wrestling Guerrilla at the same time but it's also the reason why this is a can't miss interview. You have seen KILL STEEN KILL now its time to watch TALK STEEN TALK.
Bonus Matches
Kevin Steen vs. Tommy Dreamer - Pro Wrestling Superstars - 1/28/12
Kevin Steen vs. Sexxy Eddy vs. El Generico vs. Excess 69 - Combat Zone Wrestling - High Stakes 2 - 9/11/04
Kevin Steen vs. Zane Riley - Premiere Wrestling Xperience - Fear The Beard - 8/17/12
Kevin Steen vs. Cedric Alexander - Premiere Wrestling Xperience - There Goes the Neighborhood - 8/18/12
Kevin Steen vs. Matt Hardy - Premiere Wrestling Xperience - Evil Twist of Fate - 10/5/12
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXjjepgROpo
http://www.highspots.com/p/talk-steen-talk.html
New Kevin Steen shoot interview. Highspots shoots are usually good so I expect no less from this one. It is also nice that I have never seen any of the bonus matches. Of course the preview video is Steen running down Cornette....should be a fun interview.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
I finally watched that New Japan main event from a few weeks ago. It was awesome.
Clearly Attitude Era Triple H isn't anywhere near main event level.
He was more like The Miz-level back then.
Stephanie/Trips (McMahon/Hemsley) era was Miz level?
I'm assuming this Triple H is based on the Chyna/DX version of Triple H and not the one after that.
And that Triple H was more like Miz as WWE-champ level. Sorta main event, but not really there yet.
It was also sorta the last time I really liked Triple H.
I went to mockingly post a picture of Scott Steiner, and my google search provided this gem instead.
I think WWE 13 needs more Triple H versions..
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I have 3 friends who do this like clockwork. Too true.
UberTag
Member
How will we be able to recreate DBrine's 18-second WrestleMania title loss to Sheamus if he has a higher Superstar rating?
Net_Wrecker
Member
That CM Punk argument hurt my head. SoulPlaya, joo crazy, yo. With the right push, CM Punk would've thrived in the Attitude Era simply because they would've booked him to be 10x as over the top and brash which would've meant his Straight Edge/dictator/cult gimmicks would've gone over even more. Austin/Punk would've been right up there with Austin/Rock.
I feel like you're underrating CM Punk's character as a result of him being in this sterile current era. No, he isn't a loud, "sing-a-long" type of promo, but that's exactly what would've made him stand out. You're telling me all his stuff with Raven, or the SES wouldn't have been huge in the Attitude Era? C'mon, son. Don't let your personal feelings toward his real life attitude take away from what he does on screen. Those are the same kind of blinders that HBK haters subconsciously wear. As for in ring skill, the Attitude Era isn't recognized for its technical prowess. Punk would been fine in that regard, especially since he has excellent psychology and works the crowd like a natural.
And if you're getting into whether or not Vince would've actually pushed him due to body type, that's a different discussion completely. Obviously, NOBODY will thrive if you don't get the full support of Creative™, so that's a pointless argument. Would CM Punk of 2009-2012 be a successful main event performer in the Attitude Era if given a chance? Absolutely. To dispute that is crazy. Half the reason he got over with "The Promo" last year was due to him coming off like a man trapped in the wrong era.
I feel like you're underrating CM Punk's character as a result of him being in this sterile current era. No, he isn't a loud, "sing-a-long" type of promo, but that's exactly what would've made him stand out. You're telling me all his stuff with Raven, or the SES wouldn't have been huge in the Attitude Era? C'mon, son. Don't let your personal feelings toward his real life attitude take away from what he does on screen. Those are the same kind of blinders that HBK haters subconsciously wear. As for in ring skill, the Attitude Era isn't recognized for its technical prowess. Punk would been fine in that regard, especially since he has excellent psychology and works the crowd like a natural.
And if you're getting into whether or not Vince would've actually pushed him due to body type, that's a different discussion completely. Obviously, NOBODY will thrive if you don't get the full support of Creative™, so that's a pointless argument. Would CM Punk of 2009-2012 be a successful main event performer in the Attitude Era if given a chance? Absolutely. To dispute that is crazy. Half the reason he got over with "The Promo" last year was due to him coming off like a man trapped in the wrong era.
British Monsoon
Member
Some recent lucha and puroresu worth watching;
La Mascara, La Sombra & Mistico vs Dragon Rojo Jr., Euforia & Rey Escorpion - (CMLL 10/06/12)
La Sombra vs Volador Jr. - (CMLL 10/09/12)
Masato Tanaka & Kohei Sato vs Takeshi Morishima & Takashi Sugiura - (ZERO1 10/16/12)
There's also a 4.5 hour SMV shoot with Steen coming out in the next few weeks.
Incidentally, I watched the SMV Brodie Lee shoot interview and it was hilarious - Brodie seems like a real nice guy, and Eddie Kingston conducting the interview made it that much better. Recommended.
Seriously - I've watched it 3 times now and it doesn't lose much in repeated viewings. I think it's going to be very hard for any match to better it this year.
La Mascara, La Sombra & Mistico vs Dragon Rojo Jr., Euforia & Rey Escorpion - (CMLL 10/06/12)
La Sombra vs Volador Jr. - (CMLL 10/09/12)
Masato Tanaka & Kohei Sato vs Takeshi Morishima & Takashi Sugiura - (ZERO1 10/16/12)
There's also a 4.5 hour SMV shoot with Steen coming out in the next few weeks.
Incidentally, I watched the SMV Brodie Lee shoot interview and it was hilarious - Brodie seems like a real nice guy, and Eddie Kingston conducting the interview made it that much better. Recommended.
Seriously - I've watched it 3 times now and it doesn't lose much in repeated viewings. I think it's going to be very hard for any match to better it this year.
He could have gone full on Ministry of Darkness with the SES in the Attitude Era.