That's simply unfair, and sounds like you weren't following the debate accurately. I'm not saying that I dislike his physique. I'm not saying he should be kept down because of it. I'm saying would he have? Would his physique been a detriment to him in the Attitude Era? Would it have kept him out of the MAIN EVENT of the Attitude Era? Considering how everyone else in the main event of the attitude era looked like (with the exception of Foley, who wasn't a perennial main eventer), yes!
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October Wrasslin |OT| Are you a Kane guy? Hell NO! I'm the tag team champions!
- Thread starter Kaladin
- Start date
Punk isn't good enough to be a perennial main eventer in the Attitude Era. His promos aren't on the level of Rock or Austin, and I would argue that Austin was a better wrestler in 97 and 98. Punk would have done just fine as a top mid carder, but no, he wouldn't have main evented. The other side of my argument is that Vince wouldn't have even given him the chance to, anyway.
Perspicacity
Banned
Holy shit, this thread went full retard overnight.
Lol, I highly doubt Austin really believes that, and if he is, he's just trying to build up hype for an Austin/Punk program.Good god I thought we would have moved on from this.
SoulPlaya, you don't rate Punk, we get it.
I'd like to add though that you say Punk's mic work isn't good enough yet Austin's favourite promo of all time is Punk's pipebomb from last year. What now, son?
BTW, I was only responding to people who responded to me. Really, Kyoufu, I've told you before. If you've got a problem with me, then say so. Otherwise, stop trying to derail an actual discussion on wrestling that we're having. Aren't you one of the ones that's constantly complaining about the state of this thread? Yet never adds anything to any discussion, or even tries to start one?
Conrad Link
Member
I get the feeling someone in charge of WWE 13 is a Daniel Bryan fan.
Love it!
Love it!
Perspicacity
Banned
I already know this is going to end with Kyoufu and Soul forming a tag team. #TeamTeamwork
I think there was some heavy fanboy involvement in some of the decisions. Having Ambrose + Aries entrances, expanded call list with a ton of indy names. Should be good times.
I think there was some heavy fanboy involvement in some of the decisions. Having Ambrose + Aries entrances, expanded call list with a ton of indy names. Should be good times.
pants
Member
Some firepro staff stealthed some code in
British Monsoon
Member
I wasn't. I was just being a smart-ass
You're right. He's better than either of those guys - but no matter how good a guy is at promos, all he has to work with is the material creative gives him, and even then he has to work within the limitations of the era, which I think we can all agree were far less limiting in the Attitude Era.
SoulPlaya said:
Was it a detriment to Foley? To a degree, but he was still a main eventer, and remains one of the most beloved characters of that era. But there's a huge difference between Punk and Foley.
And Punk wouldn't have been a perennial main eventer? Good! There's a phrase right there that sums up a lot of what's wrong with today's WWE. No one should be a perennial main eventer.
Net_Wrecker
Member
I don't understand how you say his promo work isn't on their level. You take THIS, change names to fit the WWF circa 98-2000, and it would be an all time classic promo. The SES induction ceremonies? The CM Jesus gimmick? Hell, what he did with Festus --> Luke Gallows and Serena would've happened to like 5+ wrestlers and divas back then. He's the ultimate foil to Stone Cold, and the perfect gimmick to tether the entire roster to the ground and provide some semblance of reality which is exactly what got Austin over initially.
I wish July 17 was my birthday.
Well, now we're mixing opinions with reality. Whether you believe there should be perennial main eventers or not, the fact is that the Attitude Era had only a small group of main eventers, and it was practically impossible to break into it.I wasn't. I was just being a smart-ass
You're right. He's better than either of those guys - but no matter how good a guy is at promos, all he has to work with is the material creative gives him, and even then he has to work within the limitations of the era, which I think we can all agree were far less limiting in the Attitude Era.
Was it a detriment to Foley? To a degree, but he was still a main eventer, and remains one of the most beloved characters of that era. But there's a huge difference between Punk and Foley.
And Punk wouldn't have been a perennial main eventer? Good! There's a phrase right there that sums up a lot of what's wrong with today's WWE. No one should be a perennial main eventer.
We've now had people say that Punk is better than HBK at wrestling, someone say that Punk is better than Rock and Austin at promos, and someone say that Rock wasn't that good at promos in the attitude era? Yet, I'm the one who's crazy? Please.
Perspicacity
Banned
Counterpoint: You think Kane is good.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Those opinions being as crazy doesn't excuse your crazy.
1. CM Punk is not a better wrassler than HBK. WrissleGOF pls
2. CM Punk is not necessarily better than Rock/Austin at promos, just different, which is what would've made him stand out.
3. The Rock had insane promo skills at his peak (which wasn't even the Attitude Era, but Hollywood Rock, IMO)
Paracelsus
Member
I beg pardon if someone already delt with this theory but could it be that
-Cena finds his way back in HIAC
-Bork helps Punk pinning Cena so that Ryback isn't defeated and carries on with the streak
-Cena vs Punk at Survivor Series and whatever feud bringing Bork vs Ryback at WMania
EDIT: And Punk is not even as good as Savage, his mic skills are several light years ahead of the best Michaels though.
-Cena finds his way back in HIAC
-Bork helps Punk pinning Cena so that Ryback isn't defeated and carries on with the streak
-Cena vs Punk at Survivor Series and whatever feud bringing Bork vs Ryback at WMania
EDIT: And Punk is not even as good as Savage, his mic skills are several light years ahead of the best Michaels though.
Punk wouldn't have stood out in the Attitude Era. He would have fit right into Right to Censor. Hell, he may have been Steven Richards, lol.
His championship entrance is pretty great.
Everyone is a Daniel Bryan fan.
I doubt the dude has many haters older then 8 years old and even those are far and few between. People love D-Bry.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I dono i hurd cm puink is the best in the world.
Net_Wrecker
Member
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#ThingsKaneMarksSay
I'm done. There's no hope here
Stop it. Michaels has way better comedic timing than Punk. Again, totally different styles and goals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVVjYsn9sGc
Sounds a lot like something SES Punk would say. "Cult" stables were pretty common back then. And no, I'm not saying Richards is as good as Punk. He's nowhere close. I'm just saying. He wouldn't have stood out as well as you guys think.
Perspicacity
Banned
It even says so on his shirt. Checkmate, you're done Soul.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
I think people forget how amazing HBK was in his prime and only remember him recently.
British Monsoon
Member
He's better at telling a story with a promo than either guy, that's for sure - for me, I remember Rocky's promos because of his charisma and comic timing, while with Stone Cold I remember his attitude and character far more than anything he actually said (that wasn't an overused catchphrase). With Punk, as with all the great promo men, I remember the promos themselves.
SoulPlaya said:
He would've stood out more than you are giving him credit for.
Hypothetical arguments are dumb.
slightconfuse
Banned
I think the fact that everyone is peeing their pants over this punk/Austen thing is proof that punk could have made it.
Perspicacity
Banned
Content, conviction, and the ability to engage are huge fucking deals. It's like you're showing us one of those Christian rock bands from the 90s that were supposed to sound "exactly like the popular artists of today", and not understanding why it's nothing fucking like listening to the real Rage Against the Machine or whoever.
But I'm talking to a guy who's favourite promos are *Lights fire - Looks around menacingly* so I wouldn't expect you to understand
His last feud was some of his all around best work.
Do we really have to look any further then Punk vs Mick Foley's promo from a few weeks ago. I dare state Foley was on attitude era and Punk did just perfect against him.
Punk would've been a main event star in the attitude era, probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years in that era either.
Punk would've been a main event star in the attitude era, probably wouldn't have taken him 5 years in that era either.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Richards was so uncharismatic and cardboard dry in his WWF run. There's no comparison. Punk's more versatile, more natural, more commanding, wittier, etc. etc.
Stop talking crazy.
IDK man, storytime with Stone Cold was pretty damn good.
I SAID A BEER BELLY
I know you're just trying to bait a response out of me with your usual "LOL KANE!" BS, but you really wouldn't expect me to understand? 90% of your posts in this thread are about me. Get off my balls already.
Nocturnowl
Member
So guys how about we just hug it out or i'll make us have a thrilling conversation about the pros and cons of Vito wearing a dress gimmick.
Main problem with Punk succeeding in the Attitude era is that Physique. Rock, Austin, Triple H all looked pretty damn good. Sure they were all probably juicing, but Punk being straight edge wouldn't be able to compete. Not exactly the tallest wrestler either.
Seems silly but I just think attitude era Vince wouldn't buy into it.
Seems silly but I just think attitude era Vince wouldn't buy into it.
Nothing wrong with that. 90% of my posts are about Punk and 90% (at least) of your posts are about Kane. Why can't Persp be a fan of you?
Net_Wrecker
Member
Oh snap, the claws be coming out. Chill out, SoulPlaya. Don't let the jabs get to you.
Only fitting a Kane mark loses his temper amirite?
Only fitting a Kane mark loses his temper amirite?
Nocturnowl
Member
I'm an ocean of calm compared to his stormy seas, why you got to stereotype like that?
Perspicacity
Banned
Uh no, I'm trying to discuss it with you. You are actively denying the talents of one of the best stars in the business, it isn't unfair in the slightest to call into question your taste and credibility.
You don't understand. You think that RTC promo was similar to CM Punk because "cultlike" which is tantamount to me saying that Kane would never stand out as a dangerous guy in a weird mask because Shockmaster was such a colossal failure.
I think it could have gone somewhere as long as they kept him face and didn't turn him into an all out drag queen.
I'm sure Persp wears a "I Love Soul" shirt.
Net_Wrecker
Member
Stereotypes make the wrestling world go round. Blame the Vin Man, don't blame me.
Nocturnowl
Member
He turned heel in the end while still under the gimmick? damn I barely remember, all I remember is the generic as hell theme music and the incredible JBL and Cole commentary to his matches.
AJ would have never made it in the attitude era.
slightconfuse
Banned
Better question would punk have main evented in TNA had he stayed