its 2017 and people still think that """""""cruiserweights"""""" can't draw holy shit
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October Wrasslin' |OT| I'm seein' double here...
- Thread starter Zach
- Start date
its 2017 and people still think that """""""cruiserweights"""""" can't draw holy shit
1993 Rumble
Bob Backlund is old
Carlos Colon is a young up and comer.
Carlos was just as old but WWE logic.
half a moon
Banned
Mickie James looks old
They're not drawing on 205 live, we all know this.
Yeah, I'll agree that Nese is peak modern indie guy that does cool shit smoothly but has nothing compelling about him in the slightest.
im shocked, SHOCKED that a show with the premise of 205 Live is being poorly handled by World Wrestling Entertainment
205 live is showing us that these cruiserweights cant draw
Yet if either were in a different promotion or in Japan people would. It's as if WWE's booking/presentation/style is reductive and doesn't help enforce their positives - it just makes them one of the crowd.
It's been the same for decades if you aren't one of the select few to be pushed in a meaningful manner then the crowd simply don't care, that isn't due a wrestlers talent but WWE's way.
Albert did nothing in WWE, no one cared. Goes to Japan displays what it's like to work with no limitations or hindrance, gets over huge. WWE is its own worst enemy but fans blame the performers/lose interest.
FlammableD
Banned
Was Vince very hands on with the CWC?
They aren't has nothing to do with the Jr heavyweights it all on the booking.
Not really. It's showing that WWE sucks no matter if it's a 3, 2 or 1 hour show.
Supppsedly it was all Triple H, it wasn't until NXT started becoming a thing that drew by itself that Vince started butting in.
The CWC was genuinely incredible for me, I was actually excited each week to watch the latest episode...it always left me wanting more and just kept on delivering.
205 lives issue is fatigue, three hours in before the dark show real main event.
Cruiserweights aren't compelling based on being smaller wrestlers.
Unless they're so different such that it's a different flavor of product entirely, and not the equivalent of a worse version of pro wrestling, it's not going to entertain on its own.
Basically, lucha or flips, and then that's up to your tastes if that even appeals to you.
Unless they're so different such that it's a different flavor of product entirely, and not the equivalent of a worse version of pro wrestling, it's not going to entertain on its own.
Basically, lucha or flips, and then that's up to your tastes if that even appeals to you.
Brian_FETO
Banned
Welp
William Ospreay‏ @WillOspreay 37m37 minutes ago
Well Young Bucks ain't the only one that's been hit with a Cease & Desist. I can no longer sell "Paw is War" or "Kitty Style"
William Ospreay‏ @WillOspreay 37m37 minutes ago
Well Young Bucks ain't the only one that's been hit with a Cease & Desist. I can no longer sell "Paw is War" or "Kitty Style"
what does this even mean
are you implying that all wrestlers smaller than 6ft are exactly the same or something
Yeah, having genuinely awesome moments like Gargano and Ciampa, Bryan coming off commentary to hug Kendrick after he lost to Ibushi and that fucking burning hammer and people chanting tonsign Alexander after his amazing match made it brilliant TV.
And that's setting aside the actual average match quality in general.
How different is the modern WWE heavyweight style compared to the cruiserweight?
It all feels interchangeable.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
These Cruiserweights can Cruiser-wait, brother.
The only thing flipping in my house is the channel on my tv, how-you-doin.
The only thing flipping in my house is the channel on my tv, how-you-doin.
I mean what's written.
Cruiserweights aren't automatically compelling based on nothing but the fact that they're cruiserweights. "Cruiserweight" status means nothing for entertainment.
Without differentiation in wrestling style, cruiserweights are pint-sized heavyweights.
That's the problem. And that might or might not be something WWE can fix. Heavyweights do so much athletically at this point that it's encroached on what separated cruiserweights versus heavyweights back in the WWF/WCW days.
newdayrocks
Member
NXT says hi.
In a vacuum? Very different. But the WWE wants everyone to wrestle the same way at the same pace. Let the guys wrestle in the same way that put them on the WWE's radar in the first place.
Ah I get you, agreed, I never saw a real compelling difference between stuff on 205 and main event Raw stuff.
I know WWE want brand cohesion so they don't confuse fans but having the 205 guys just do WWE style cruiserweight stuff was the worst decision they could have mad.
Eh, even the hourly show there isn't great anymore. But it would probably be best to say any WWE show that Vince is the main decision maker on.
WWE can fix it. Once Vince dies and Steph listens to others.
It's definitely something that can be fixed. But that would mean the WWE deviating from their formula which they'll never do because of ego or hard cameras or replays or whatever the fuck is preventing them from doing fast paced indie style matches.
giancarlo123x
Banned
No it wasn't, it was in control by someone competent. Now Vince has his dirty fingers all over them.
There is still a massive gap between WWE heavyweight style and say, Dragon Gate junior style wrestler. Or the BJW Junior style (Battlearts with less grapplefuck basically). Or Euro indie style. Or actual fucking Lucha.
This isn't an insurmountable problem folks.
Personally it's the most memorable and exciting thing WWE has ever produced since letting Punk be Punk in 2011. For me it's a milestone.
Ehhh, I'm not sure.
I've seen Gran Metallik, Ali Mustafa, and Cedric Alexander do flippy shit that nobody on the main roster can do and get no heat what so ever, on 205 live.
205 itself is actually a decently booked show compared to Raw or Smackdown (obviously NXT's better); however the crowd is just dead tired after two hours of Smackdown. (this does not excuse the awful booking of 3v3s on Raw that is just poorly booked).
You can have the same exact hour of 205 live appear in Full Sail and it will come of ten times better.
I agree with the last part. I'd rather they just go full-on indie flipfest with 205 Live, within reason according to WWE's safety standards but not to WWE's in-match storytelling standards.
It's not my preferred style, sure, but it's legitimately different to justify the show's existence beyond filling another hour of on-network content and there's a niche audience for that product.
Right now, there's no audience for 205 Live beyond addicts.
BewareTheBatsie
Member
cruiserweight division died on day one when they introduced the cruiserweight's on raw WITHOUT HAVING THE FUCKING CHAMPION APPEARING
plus didn't foley forget like half their names
plus didn't foley forget like half their names
There's more to what can be changed than just MOVEZ. Use the pacing, the logic(or lack thereof), variety of moves, and the rhythm of indie style or hell non-WWE style and then we can decide on whether the audience is there for it or not. Watch the CWC Cedric Alexander match against Ibushi or watch his indie matches and then watch a stock CWC match that he's in that garners no heat and try to tell me that those matches are the same. Pro wrestling isn't some rigid form of entertainment, they can do a lot more than an extra flip or two that AJ Styles doesn't do.
Pete Dunn and Tyler Bate's match from that one Takeover is a perfect example of what an indie paced match can look like without flippy dippy shenanigans. It felt different than all the other NXT matches on that card.
Brian_FETO
Banned
They went as far to change the lights, ropes and commentary to let you know that this is a different product separate from the main roster but make them work the same style
You're basically telling your audience "hey this is like everything else on the show but you don't care about it"
Standing shooting star into a submission reversal by Pete, that inhuman corkscrew 450
You're basically telling your audience "hey this is like everything else on the show but you don't care about it"
To be fair, Tyler did some ridiculous flippy shit in that match. You just don't remember it because of how good the match was
Standing shooting star into a submission reversal by Pete, that inhuman corkscrew 450
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Hey guys, let's make a cruiserweight division and then emphasize submission wrestling.
That'll get them over.
That'll get them over.
That goes to show how my standards for flippy dippy have gotten all out of whack over the past couple years
I think that's what so strange about that Bate/Dunne match. They got to do everything they wanted and broke all the rules. Headdrop shit, no selling spots, dives on dives, a non-WWE pace. Like, NXT main eventers don't get that leeway. I wonder what the story behind that match was given that they didn't do one on the most recent Takeover.
I have this irrational fear that someone's going to open my side gate and my dog's going to chase some squirrel and get ran over or something. I don't know why. He mostly lives inside. And when he's outside, I'm with him half the time. I don't know. I just don't want to lose him. My sweet prince. My favorite son.
I hate you, NVM.
andre.jif
Probably just because they aren't being groomed for the main roster, so they don't have to do that NXT hybrid style of indie working and WWE style.
Not really I mean Kenny Omega and ibushi do crazy moves all the time that doesn't hurt the Jr heavyweights at all.
Oh, great. Another irrational fear to have. I'm mad as heck.
(But I'm sorry about your dog, HashtagLapsed. That's terrible.)