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[The Elite]

It's a meaningless gesture that puts the onus on fictional guns instead of real ones.


Oh it's not guns and the lack of control that's the problem, it's the fictional pictures and video games... Nonsense.

I don't think it's about shifting the onus at all. We know where the real problem lies but when you have 50 plus people shot and killed in one incident in Vegas due to guns, maybe calling yourself the Bullet Club and having a shirt with guns and bullets on it isn't the best look.

I don't think BC is part of the problem but I do think it's an image problem.

 

[Zach]

Are you dodging my tipping q, NVM?!

 

[excelsiorlef]

I don't think it's about shifting the onus at all. We know where the real problem lies but when you have 50 plus people shot and killed in one incident in Vegas due to guns, maybe calling yourself the Bullet Club and having a shirt with guns and bullets on it isn't the best look.

I don't think BC is part of the problem but I do think it's an image problem.

It's absolutely shifting the onus...

 

[Sephzilla]

Gun culture and everything around it is only going to change when you change the source of the problem, not the fringe things that surround it. Gun culture and violence is only going to change once we put harder regulations on firearms and make it so every average Joe can't get his hands on one. Things like not selling Bullet Club shirts or changing the name of a professional basketball team from Bullets to Wizards aren't going to make any actual difference when it comes to gun culture.

 

[Mahonay]

Are you dodging my tipping q, NVM?!

He's dodging the tip!!!

 

[excelsiorlef]

Gun culture and everything around it is only going to change when you change the source of the problem, not the fringe things that surround it. Gun culture and violence is only going to change once we put harder regulations on firearms and make it so every average Joe can't get his hands on one. Things like not selling Bullet Club shirts or changing the name of a professional basketball team from Bullets to Wizards aren't going to make any actual difference when it comes to gun culture.

If it anything doing so will create the illusion that "we've done something", when we've done nothing.

 

[Sephzilla]

Are you dodging my tipping q, NVM?!

He's dodging the tip!!!

AndreEyes.gif

 

[The Elite]

It's absolutely shifting the onus...

How so? I'm not saying the problem is the Bullet Club shirts I'm simply saying that it's inappropriate to be parading gun culture when gun violence is a real issue in the United States. It's a great shirt but it's not a good look and comes off as being tone deaf when sold in the United States.

The onus for dealing with the issue still lays squarely on the US government to get its shit together on gun control.

If it anything doing so will create the illusion that "we've done something", when we've done nothing.

No one is going to look at changing the Bullet Club name as having done something. I feel confident in that. Only a bunch of wrestling fans will notice. Most will be outraged.

 

[Heroman]

Another probkem with the brand spilt is that most of the ppv this year have been mediocre to bad this year.

 

[Foggy]

How so? I'm not saying the problem is the Bullet Club shirts I'm simply saying that it's inappropriate to be parading gun culture when gun violence is a real issue in the United States. It's a great shirt but it's not a good look and comes off as being tone deaf when sold in the United States.

The onus for dealing with the issue still lays squarely on the US government to get its shit together on gun control.

"parading gun culture"

 

[Ronin Ray]

Nope

As a big Cyborg fan, it hurts my heart to say that design sucks and I can't believe they're still trying to make that look 1) work and 2) lead to his own feature film. That flop Green Lantern film made more than a Cyborg film will. I'll even one up it: Both flop Fantastic Four films were better than a Cyborg film could be

He is over in the teen Titans. That cartoon was insanely popular. So popular they brought it back and spam the shit out of it all the time. He doesn't work with out being on the Titans but there are a bunch of kids and younger people that know who he is over anyone in the fantastic Four. You're also arguing the hypothetical quality of a movie that's never been made.

 

[Brian_FETO]

He is over in the teen Titans. That cartoon was insanely popular. So popular they brought it back and spam the shit out of it all the time. He doesn't work with out being on the Titans but there are a bunch of kids and younger people that know who he is over anyone in the fantastic Four. You're also arguing the hypothetical quality of a movie that's never been made.

That's actually a really good point. All they need to do is spam advertisements during the current show. At least when I was a kid a lot of the excitement is seeing how it translates (though the current show is basically just comedy, his movie will probably be SUPER SERIOUS)

I definitely fall into the crowd that knew Cyborg from the original cartoon. I get why people hate it but the movie version doesn't really bother me. We'll see how it works out I guess

 

[excelsiorlef]

How so? I'm not saying the problem is the Bullet Club shirts I'm simply saying that it's inappropriate to be parading gun culture when gun violence is a real issue in the United States. It's a great shirt but it's not a good look and comes off as being tone deaf when sold in the United States.

The onus for dealing with the issue still lays squarely on the US government to get its shit together on gun control.

It's a picture of a gun on a shirt.... that's all it is...

You're not saying the shirts are the problem, you're just saying the shirts are part of the problem... but they aren't, they're even less part of the problem then First Person shooters, and those are also not part of the problem.

There is no real link between violence and violent media, unlike links between bigotry and bigoted media. They are just different things and need to be be approached differently.

That your instinct is to say after a horrific tragedy that some indie wrestlers trying to make it work without the need of WWE should lose a major source of income because it "looks bad" is ridiculous.

There's no reason to pull the shirts, zero.

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Another probkem with the brand spilt is that most of the ppv this year have been mediocre to bad this year.

Most of the product has been mediocre to bad this year, I don't know how you could attribute that to one brand being bad compared to the other or the split being the cause of that

 

[excelsiorlef]

No one is going to look at changing the Bullet Club name as having done something. I feel confident in that. Only a bunch of wrestling fans will notice. Most will be outraged.

So it won't change anything, it's not part of the problem and doing it will just piss people off and cut off some guys from sources of income... but they should totally do it... for reasons.

 

[Heroman]

Most of the product has been mediocre to bad this year, I don't know how you could attribute that to one brand being bad compared to the other or the split being the cause of that

Tv has been mediocre for years but the ppv were mostly good up until the brand split. I

 

[The Elite]

It's a picture of a gun on a shirt.... that's all it is...

You're not saying the shirts are the problem, you're just saying the shirts are part of the problem... but they aren't, they're even less part of the problem then First Person shooters, and those are also not part of the problem.

There is no real link between violence and violent media, unlike links between bigotry and bigoted media. They are just different things and need to be be approached differently.

That your instinct is to say after a horrific tragedy that some indie wrestlers trying to make it work without the need of WWE should lose a major source of income because it "looks bad" is ridiculous.

There's no reason to pull the shirts, zero.

I think you're reading a lot into what I am saying.

I haven't said Bullet Club or their shirt is part of the problem. I am simply saying the image is tone deaf after a tragedy.

The assumption that my core instinct after Vegas is that some wrestling stable should lose their income is misleading. It obviously wasn't the first thing I thought about after Vegas. My first instinct after Vegas was my usual fuck the US and their lack of meaningful gun control. My thoughts about the Bullet Club t-shirt aren't even that big of a deal but since this is a wrestling thread I thought I would bring it up. You seem to be inflating my investment in seeing the shirt removed from HT.

It's simply a concern, and a valid one, that the shirt might look a little tone deaf after a tragedy like this.

I'm not saying the shirt is the cause of the issue or that removing the sale of the shirts will somehow fix the problem. That's ridiculous. I am just saying that as a promotion tool it's ultimately problematic to promote yourself in association with guns in a country that has a gun violence problem. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

You seem to keep claiming that I am suggesting that there is a link between BC and actual gun violence in America. Specifically this: "There is no real link between violence and violent media, unlike links between bigotry and bigoted media. They are just different things and need to be be approached differently.". I haven't said that at all. I'm just saying it's tone deaf and inappropriate.

Also, for the record, I love Bullet Club and the shirt. I don't want to see it go either. I just have concerns that as a promotional tool, as fantastic as it has been, it may be a problem down the line when trying to expand to the US. That's all.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I think you're reading a lot into what I am saying.

I haven't said Bullet Club or their shirt is part of the problem. I am simply saying the image is tone deaf after a tragedy.

The assumption that my core instinct after Vegas is that some wrestling stable should lose their income is misleading. It obviously wasn't the first thing I thought about after Vegas. My first instinct after Vegas was my usual fuck the US and their lack of meaningful gun control. My thoughts about the Bullet Club t-shirt aren't even that big of a deal but since this is a wrestling thread I thought I would bring it up. You seem to be inflating my investment in seeing the shirt removed from HT.

It's simply a concern, and a valid one, that the shirt might look a little tone deaf after a tragedy like this.

I'm not saying the shirt is the cause of the issue or that removing the sale of the shirts will somehow fix the problem. That's ridiculous. I am just saying that as a promotion tool it's ultimately problematic to promote yourself in association with guns in a country that has a gun violence problem. I don't think that's unreasonable at all.

You seem to keep claiming that I am suggesting that there is a link between BC and actual gun violence in America. Specifically this: "There is no real link between violence and violent media, unlike links between bigotry and bigoted media. They are just different things and need to be be approached differently.". I haven't said that at all. I'm just saying it's tone deaf and inappropriate.

Also, for the record, I love Bullet Club and the shirt. I don't want to see it go either. I just have concerns that as a promotional tool, as fantastic as it has been, it may be a problem down the line when trying to expand to the US. That's all.

But no one is going after them, why should they pre-preemptively stop selling a wrestling t-shirt... because it has bullet in the name and guns on the shirt.. should we stop selling toy guns, pull every gun related action movie from the theatres?

 

[klonere]

Bad way to look at it. This is something HT can do, TODAY, to help cut down on the glorification of gun violence.

You want real change elsewhere? Settle in and wait. Do more than one thing at a time. Stamp out the small stuff you can stamp out.

lmao

You've got an Amendment written by defied dead white men and you think some wrestling t-shirts will make a dent in the issue.

 

[The Elite]

But no one is going after them, why should they pre-preemptively stop selling a wrestling t-shirt... because it has bullet in the name and guns on the shirt.. should we stop selling toy guns, pull every gun related action movie from the theatres?

You're going with a slippery slope argument? As for toy guns I think most of them on the shelves these days don't mimic real guns.

As for violent movies, like I said, maybe I am a little hypocritical in that regard because I love them too much.

As for the shirt, being preemptive isn't necessarily a bad thing. Also, their logo and design work without the guns or name. We've seen that with all the other shirts they have released with the same design. I think they could actually pull off a change without damaging their sales or image. They could just go with "The Elite" for the whole stable or something else.

Honestly, I don't even think Vince would feel comfortable with a Bullet Club stable in WWE.

I think this discussion has run its course and we're clearly on two very different sides of it.

We could settle this at the next GWF, of course.

lmao

You've got an Amendment written by defied dead white men and you think some wrestling t-shirts will make a dent in the issue.

The Amendment is the BIG issue but lets not pretend there isn't a gun culture in the US that is enabled by that amendment. I don't think it's BC's attempt to promote that, it's a Japanese stable where gun culture is non-existent AFAIK, but it does present an optics problem in NA.

 

[Professor Beef]

Jontron was never funny and he was always the bad part about Game Grumps

I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you or defending him. I'm just pointing out that Jon has at one point been entertaining, which is more than what can be said for Ziggler.

 

[Brian_FETO]

Maybe Bullet Club will invade the NRA and get a cease and desist on all firearm imagery

Win-win

 

[The Elite]

It's amazing how much of my good will towards Ziggler ended when he wore those "Don't Tread on Me" tights.

I had no idea.

 

[excelsiorlef]

You're going with a slippery slope argument? As for toy guns I think most of them on the shelves these days don't mimic real guns.

As for violent movies, like I said, maybe I am a little hypocritical in that regard because I love them too much.

As for the shirt, being preemptive isn't necessarily a bad thing. Also, their logo and design work without the guns or name. We've seen that with all the other shirts they have released with the same design. I think they could actually pull off a change without damaging their sales or image. They could just go with "The Elite" for the whole stable or something else.

Honestly, I don't even think Vince would feel comfortable with a Bullet Club stable in WWE.

I think this discussion has run its course and we're clearly on two very different sides of it.

Yes because you're targeting one specific thing saying it should go without any sort of explanation why besides "tone def" so I wanted to know the logical extension of your argument and with all due respect that you say but nah not action movies those get to stay (which actually show guns being fired and killing people and all that jazz.. and that's still not really a problem either) kinda just blows your whole argument up.

We could settle this at the next GWF, of course.

I'm a jobber in that company so I'm not settling anything there

 

[klonere]

If HT wanted to do something about gun laws in America they could start donating to an anti-gun law lobby not stop selling some fucking t-shirts

Cash moves everything around me

 

[SallyIsNow]

If HT wanted to do something about gun laws in America they could start donating to an anti-gun law lobby not stop selling some fucking t-shirts

Cash rules everything around me

Cash
Moves
Everything
Thing
Anymore
Me

 

[Brian_FETO]

Cash
Moves
Everything
Thing
Anymore
Me

 

[Heroman]

Cash
Moves
Everything
Thing
Anymore
Me

 

[excelsiorlef]

 

[Sweeney Tom]

Money
Always
Reigns
King

 

[Brian_FETO]

"What is this"

 

[Kurita]

Apple Music is cool but goddamn, it's also the dumbest shit. Can't save the files locally unless you turn on iCloud, which means you can't simply add your music via USB anymore.
WHY?
Tried all day long to add some songs I own on iCloud and it just didn't work (goodnight Hulkamaniacs) for some reason. "Sorry it's not working, try again".

 

[Anth0ny]

what happens when a worker tries to shoot on a shoot-worker?

 

[British Monsoon]

This card is stacked! Proper looking forward to seeing Marufuji for the first time - would've loved to meet him, but LF are charging £25 for a meet & greet!

 

[Cagey]

Bullet Club wrestling tee shirts contributing to the glorification of gun culture?

Is that a shoot?

 

[SallyIsNow]

So
What's
Everyone
Enjoying?
Not
Eric
Young

Tom
Outs
Marks

 

[Brian_FETO]

Bullet Club wrestling tee shirts contributing to the glorification of gun culture?

Is that a shoot?

John Cena and Roman Reigns spent all that time shooting from the hip

Things could've been different

 

[Heroman]

"What is this"

A call back

 

[Recall]

When do I get my Big Hoss Title in GWF? Last I checked I'm undefeated in 1v1 contests!

*uses a red crayola to alter the record books*

 

[The Elite]

John Cena and Roman Reigns spent all that time shooting from the hip

Things could've been different

Reigns wears that vest for a reason. Cena's shoots just bounce off.

 

[Sephzilla]

When do I get my Big Hoss Title in GWF? Last I checked I'm undefeated in 1v1 contests!

*uses a red crayola to alter the record books*

That's interesting, how is Recall 10-2 despite there only being 8 GWFs so far?

 

[Recall]

This card is stacked! Proper looking forward to seeing Marufuji for the first time - would've loved to meet him, but LF are charging £25 for a meet & greet!

When NOAH came to Coventry in 2008 (or 2009, can't remember) I met Marufuji, KENTA, Misawa and Kobashi, plus got signatures and several handshakes from Kobashi for free.

We even convinced Aoki to apply armbars to us as we waited to enter the venue...because he seemed bored.

 

[Recall]

That's interesting, how is Recall 10-2 despite there only being 8 GWFs so far?

That isn't a 2, that's ketchup 😵

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

Are you dodging my tipping q, NVM?!

I always read nvn as "nevermind" and that context always makes me laugh out loud.

 

[sf2fanatic]

Can't wait to see Joe back. He'll be ready for a fight. Didn't realize how bad he was injured.


Also, i wish Corey Graves could wrestle one more time. His feud with Enzo is crazy

 

[Angry Grimace]

Don't wear your bullet club shirt the day after a mass shooting; you'll know its safe to wear it again when the politicians stop pretending to care about gun control in a couple weeks.

 

[Professor Beef]

dave is a filthy MARK

 

[The Elite]

Don't wear your bullet club shirt the day after a mass shooting; you'll know its safe to wear it again when the politicians stop pretending to care about gun control in a couple weeks.

With the way the news cycle shifts these days even two weeks is generous.

 

[Recall]

Don't wear your bullet club shirt the day after a mass shooting; you'll know its safe to wear it again when the politicians stop pretending to care about gun control in a couple weeks.

I had a Claudio Castagnoli ROH t-shirt, it featured a picture of a big cartoon bomb on the front. I mindlessly wore it to an airport - never made that mistake again.

 

[Menome]

I don't think Vince knows what the word "favouring" means.

If my left arm is injured, I'm not favouring it. I'm favouring my right arm because it's the one that works properly. It is receiving preferential treatment.