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October Wrasslin' |strobogo Recap OT| This title is held in abeyance

J

JesseEwiak

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
We got a tag team match, playas!

Edit: Who am I kidding? I'm still fucking devastated. How can a company with so much money be so incompetent at booking? Was this a Vince thing? A Paul thing? A Sandow fuckup backstage? How could anyone ever think Cena needs that rub?
Click to expand...

Why is your biggest star beating a heatless comedy midcarder bad booking? Giving Sandow the briefcase was a mistake. This was fixing that mistake the best possible way. Sandow can go back where he might actually get a reaction, in fun little matches teaming with the Diva heel of the week against Natalya and Santino or The Great Khali.
 
G

G-Fex

Member
Rrdw5We.jpg
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.
 
C

Chie Satonaka

Member
funkystudent said:
Basically everything that happened on that raw was bad. TNA bad.

Any plans for Sandow is done. He got buried like someone about to get suspended for failing a test.

Bryan is back in the mid card. His push went to the big show for some reason.

The Kane "return - ruthless monster - fade into the background - take time off" cycle lasted all of 24 hours.

The Wyatt's are now corporate puppets which makes zero sense.

I dont even know what CM Punk is any more. Is is just there going around in circles.

I think we should finally make that Wrestling rehab thread in the OT. We can all come together and overcome this wrestling addiction. Find other things to do on Monday Nights.
Click to expand...

This is the summary I needed to know I don't need to watch Raw when I get home.

In fact, it's probably pretty safe to say I can tune out until the Rumble.
 
S

Serpentine

Banned
Y'know aside from the beginning and the end Raw wasn't even bad, but i'm gonna keep my expectations in check. This Big Show push is ridiculous as hell, and it was probably definitely supposed to be for someone else. lol @ Miz getting beat in 2 minutes. Fuck off forever now.

Punk/Bryan vs. Wyatts should be rad, maybe, as long as Miz isn't involved. They just totally threw away the Wyatt/Kane story though. I mean, I don't wanna see them wrestle each other again, but idk, it meant that garbage match was all for nothing now. although...
Shark Johnson said:
Paul Heyman is the devil. He said he was Satan last night.


PAY ATTENTION.
Click to expand...

THIS WOULD CERTAINLY BE ONE WAY TO FUCK IT UP

JesseEwiak said:
Why is your biggest star beating a heatless comedy midcarder bad booking? Giving Sandow the briefcase was a mistake. This was fixing that mistake the best possible way. Sandow can go back where he might actually get a reaction, in fun little matches teaming with the Diva heel of the week against Natalya and Santino or The Great Khali.
Click to expand...

Well it's also that Cena beat him with an injured arm that was worked before and during the match and kicked out of all of his finishers. It's such a John Cena thing.

And midcard heels with heat, lol. Sandow actually had a lot of heat at one point but that was sometime last year. He sure as hell isn't gonna get heat for showing up to lose every week for months, with no promo time whatsoever.
 
R

Ripclawe

Banned
I want to know where they got the feedback that people demanded a Big Show/Orton match on PPV. I can't believe that came up in any focus group, ratings, feedback other than HHH and Vince's deranged minds
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Serpentine said:
Well it's also that Cena beat him with an injured arm that was worked before and during the match and kicked out of all of his finishers. It's such a "babyfaces in WWF since Bruno Sammartino" thing.
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Seriously. Go watch a few Bruno versus upper midcard heel cage matches from the 70's. He goes in, kicks their ass for 5-10 minutes while selling nothing, then walks out the door. That's what top babyfaces do and have done since the beginning of time in wrestling.

And midcard heels with heat, lol. Sandow actually had a lot of heat at one point but that was sometime last year. He sure as hell isn't gonna get heat for showing up to lose every week for months, with no promo time whatsoever.
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Right. So the WWE fucked up. Instead of giving Sandow a pointless World title win where he'd lose every title defense like w/ prior MitB winners (hello Jack Swagger), he loses the MitB now and maybe, he can be repackaged or have the gimmick shifted so he can be a main event guy. If not, oh well. It's not as if we're missing out on the next gamechanger in the business.

I want to know where they got the feedback that people demanded a Big Show/Orton match on PPV. I can't believe that came up in any focus group, ratings, feedback other than HHH and Vince's deranged minds
Click to expand...

Big Show's been the #2 face in the company for the past six weeks. Why wouldn't he be the next guy to get a title shot if they've moved past Bryan for the moment?
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
JesseEwiak said:
Why is your biggest star beating a heatless comedy midcarder bad booking? Giving Sandow the briefcase was a mistake. This was fixing that mistake the best possible way. Sandow can go back where he might actually get a reaction, in fun little matches teaming with the Diva heel of the week against Natalya and Santino or The Great Khali.
Click to expand...

Sandow COULD be a main eventer, with proper booking. They've spent months building up that he now has a vicious streak, only to turn him into a total jobber once he got the briefcase. Hell, him going over Cena could have made him huge, but Vince's ego re: Cena prevents them from seeing that. It's a sacrifice of the future for no real benefit in the present, and it's stupid.
 
F

funkystudent

Member
Ripclawe said:
I want to know where they got the feedback that people demanded a Big Show/Orton match on PPV. I can't believe that came up in any focus group, ratings, feedback other than HHH and Vince's deranged minds
Click to expand...

The only thing that makes sense is that maybe Show is reaching the end of his in ring usefulness and they are sending him out with one last main event push.

Maybe it will end at Survivor Series with Show in Win or Retire match.... which would make sense if he wasnt already kayfabe fired.
 
S

Serpentine

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
Right. So the WWE fucked up. Instead of giving Sandow a pointless World title win where he'd lose every title defense like w/ prior MitB winners (hello Jack Swagger), he loses the MitB now and maybe, he can be repackaged or have the gimmick shifted so he can be a main event guy. If not, oh well. It's not as if we're missing out on the next gamechanger in the business.
Click to expand...
For the record, I don't think it was a good idea giving him the case either. He's never really been booked strongly, and in-ring wise he's about at midcard level. But he totally got chumped out hard here. A repackaging would probably be the worst thing to do. I don't think anyone really wants that
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Sandow COULD be a main eventer, with proper booking. They've spent months building up that he now has a vicious streak, only to turn him into a total jobber once he got the briefcase. Hell, him going over Cena could have made him huge, but Vince's ego re: Cena prevents them from seeing that. It's a sacrifice of the future for no real benefit in the present, and it's stupid.
Click to expand...

Sorry, Damien Sandow in his current gimmick would've never been a main eventer. He's The Genius with a better moveset.

So, would you have put Jeff Jarrett over Steve Austin in 1998 in a random RAW match? How about Rick Martel in 1991 over The Ultimate Warrior on Prime Time Wrestling with no build up? Sorry, I can get that Cena winning certain times has been silly (Ziggler last year, etc.), but this idea that Cena has to job to every wrestler in the IWC that has any sort of support is silly. For the time being, Cena is the top guy. Jobbing your top guy to everybody in existence is _dumb_ booking.
 
F

FallingEdge

Member
funkystudent said:
Basically everything that happened on that raw was bad. TNA bad.

Any plans for Sandow is done. He got buried like someone about to get suspended for failing a test.

Bryan is back in the mid card. His push went to the big show for some reason.

The Kane "return - ruthless monster - fade into the background - take time off" cycle lasted all of 24 hours.

The Wyatt's are now corporate puppets which makes zero sense.

I dont even know what CM Punk is any more. Is is just there going around in circles.


I think we should finally make that Wrestling rehab thread in the OT. We can all come together and overcome this wrestling addiction. Find other things to do on Monday Nights.
Click to expand...

there is more than wwe you know
 
S

Serpentine

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
Sorry, Damien Sandow in his current gimmick would've never been a main eventer. He's The Genius with a better moveset.

So, would you have put Jeff Jarrett over Steve Austin in 1998 in a random RAW match? How about Rick Martel in 1991 over The Ultimate Warrior on Prime Time Wrestling with no build up? Sorry, I can get that Cena winning certain times has been silly (Ziggler last year, etc.), but this idea that Cena has to job to every wrestler in the IWC that has any sort of support is silly. For the time being, Cena is the top guy. Jobbing your top guy to everybody in existence is _dumb_ booking.
Click to expand...
Ideally this whole thing wouldn't have happened, they fucked up from the get go. Actually, I wouldn't have minded Sandow with the case if they made him look good, but they made him look the jobbiest of jobbers.

JesseEwiak said:
Big Show's been the #2 face in the company for the past six weeks. Why wouldn't he be the next guy to get a title shot if they've moved past Bryan for the moment?
Click to expand...
what is he doing there as #2 face in the first place
 
jobber

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
I'm to the Wyatts beating on Punk so far

but uh

for your power trip fantasies, Miz also has unfinished business with the Wyatts. So does Dolph for that matter.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
JesseEwiak said:
Sorry, Damien Sandow in his current gimmick would've never been a main eventer. He's The Genius with a better moveset.

So, would you have put Jeff Jarrett over Steve Austin in 1998 in a random RAW match? How about Rick Martel in 1991 over The Ultimate Warrior on Prime Time Wrestling with no build up? Sorry, I can get that Cena winning certain times has been silly (Ziggler last year, etc.), but this idea that Cena has to job to every wrestler in the IWC that has any sort of support is silly. For the time being, Cena is the top guy. Jobbing your top guy to everybody in existence is _dumb_ booking.
Click to expand...

Cena DOESN'T job out to everyone in existence. A top guy doesn't have to win EVERY time to stay a top guy.

Anyway, Sandow in his current gimmick is a perfect archetype that could be big in any era. He's totally committed to the gimmick, and he could get a heel reaction anywhere with it. There's nothing about the gimmick holding him back. It's 100% the booking.
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Serpentine said:
what is he doing there as #2 face in the first place
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Honestly, who else would you have chosen for the role Show was in. Punk was off doing his own thing and the angle wouldn't have made sense. Dolph had turned heel (I think) again and even if he wasn't, he can't be sympathetic. Show's probably the best pure actor in the company, has the buy in from fans, and for a giant, is a hell of a lot better worker than almost all of them in history (seriously, go back and watch some 80's Andre or modern Kane matches).

Now, obviously, your response is "don't do this story." Fine, but if they're going to do it, Show's honestly the best guy for the role.
 
S

Serpentine

Banned
jobber said:
I'm to the Wyatts beating on Punk so far

but uh

for your power trip fantasies, Miz also has unfinished business with the Wyatts. So does Dolph for that matter.
Click to expand...

Dolph's never had any business with them. He had a match once and lost clean.

Miz... you're right. Hopefully it just ends up with Harper booting + lariatooooooooooing Miz in 5 seconds so Miz can go do TV movies forever.

JesseEwiak said:
Honestly, who else would you have chosen for the role Show was in. Punk was off doing his own thing and the angle wouldn't have made sense. Dolph had turned heel (I think) again and even if he wasn't, he can't be sympathetic. Show's probably the best pure actor in the company, has the buy in from fans, and for a giant, is a hell of a lot better worker than almost all of them in history (seriously, go back and watch some 80's Andre or modern Kane matches).

Now, obviously, your response is "don't do this story." Fine, but if they're going to do it, Show's honestly the best guy for the role.
Click to expand...

The better options are all injured. That said, surely someone else can get the rub from this. I don't dispute that Show is a good giant (bro, I know that modern Kane matches are str8 garbage). They're having Show do all the cool shit, while D. Bry is off getting beat up. Also the whole "Show is afraid he'll seriously HURT Daniel Bryan" thing early in the story really soured the rest for me. That was some bulllllllllllshit.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
You know what WOULD have made sense? Have Sandow lose the case to Cody and have Cody return after being fired by cashing in said case against Alberto del Rio. Giving Sandow the case with no intention of giving him the title is STUPID. Having a young up-and-comer job to a hurt Cena with no build-up is STUPID.

Still watching... why is Kane turning heel? Why was he not brainwashed into becoming a Wyatt when he was kidnapped by them? Why is Kane not sticking up for his best friend Daniel Bryan? And WHY did Sandow lose!?
 
J

JesseEwiak

Member
Snowman Prophet of Doom said:
Cena DOESN'T job out to everyone in existence. A top guy doesn't have to win EVERY time to stay a top guy.
Click to expand...

Actually, winning almost every time is how you build a top guy. To take one WrassleGAF favorite, winning all the time is how Mark Henry went for midcard joke to the biggest monster heel in recent years in WWE not named Brock Lesnar.

There's a reason why the fans react to certain people as stars (Cena, Orton, etc.). They win all the time. Punk didn't become a made men as a top guy 'til he held the title for almost a year.

You have to be careful with how you job a top guy. Cena just jobbed to Bryan. Jobbing him to Sandow, right after he came back, would've devalued Bryan's win. Now, I'm not saying Cena shouldn't ever lose, but yes, he should win the vast majority of the time. Becuase that's what worked in the Bruno era, in the Hogan era, in the Austin era, and yes, in the Cena era. The problem isn't that Cena wins all the time. The problem is that their are shitty stories surrounding Cena winning all the time.

Anyway, Sandow in his current gimmick is a perfect archetype that could be big in any era. He's totally committed to the gimmick, and he could get a heel reaction anywhere with it. There's nothing about the gimmick holding him back. It's 100% the booking.
Click to expand...

I simply disagree. In it's current incarnation, even with the viciousness, the cartooniness of the big words, his look, and so on, wouldn't have worked. Now, he may get heel reactions. But, would he'd have drawn? I doubt it. Even if he was booked perfectly.
 
S

Sweeney Tom

Banned
JesseEwiak said:
Honestly, who else would you have chosen for the role Show was in. Punk was off doing his own thing and the angle wouldn't have made sense. Dolph had turned heel (I think) again and even if he wasn't, he can't be sympathetic. Show's probably the best pure actor in the company, has the buy in from fans, and for a giant, is a hell of a lot better worker than almost all of them in history (seriously, go back and watch some 80's Andre or modern Kane matches).

Now, obviously, your response is "don't do this story." Fine, but if they're going to do it, Show's honestly the best guy for the role.
Click to expand...

Punk's angle was dragged out and he could have easily been in Show's position by Battleground at least. Having him go through both Axel and Ryback after going against Brock, just to get Heyman after so many months wasn't necessary, and I don't see how that could be argued, considering even fans of the angle were stumped with Ryback's involvement.
 
jobber

jobber

Would let Tony Parker sleep with his wife
Serpentine said:
Dolph's never had any business with them. He had a match once and lost clean.

Miz... you're right. Hopefully it just ends up with Harper booting + lariatooooooooooing Miz in 5 seconds so Miz can go do TV movies forever.
Click to expand...

someone hasn't been watching WWE Main Event on ION TV
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
JesseEwiak said:
Actually, winning almost every time is how you build a top guy. To take one WrassleGAF favorite, winning all the time is how Mark Henry went for midcard joke to the biggest monster heel in recent years in WWE not named Brock Lesnar.

There's a reason why the fans react to certain people as stars (Cena, Orton, etc.). They win all the time. Punk didn't become a made men as a top guy 'til he held the title for almost a year.

You have to be careful with how you job a top guy. Cena just jobbed to Bryan. Jobbing him to Sandow, right after he came back, would've devalued Bryan's win. Now, I'm not saying Cena shouldn't ever lose, but yes, he should win the vast majority of the time. Becuase that's what worked in the Bruno era, in the Hogan era, in the Austin era, and yes, in the Cena era. The problem isn't that Cena wins all the time. The problem is that their are shitty stories surrounding Cena winning all the time.
Click to expand...

I agree, but 1) top babyfaces are on TV a LOT more these days, so he could lose once every two months and still come out on top, and 2) Cena is HURT. Him losing under such a circumstance wouldn't have done a damn thing to him, and he could easily have gotten that win back at the next PPV. Sandow comes out looking good, NOTHING happens to Cena,

I simply disagree. In it's current incarnation, even with the viciousness, the cartooniness of the big words, his look, and so on, wouldn't have worked. Now, he may get heel reactions. But, would he'd have drawn? I doubt it. Even if he was booked perfectly.
Click to expand...

This kind of attitude is why WWE never moves forward. ENTERTAINMENT is what draws, and Sandow has had crowds eating out of the palm of his hands for the better part of a year. The wrestling gimmicks that break out almost always have strong archetypal appeal, and Sandow's gimmick - asshole intellectual - has that in spades, probably more than anybody else in the company at the moment. He was even getting face pops for a while because people knew he would ALWAYS entertain. All he's really lacking are big finishing moves, and those would be easy to add to his moveset. Otherwise, he's got everything - great mic skills, good wrestler, classic archetypal persona that could work a program with pretty much ANYBODY. Him cashing in against Cena last night after a post-match del Rio armbar would have been best, but I guess he's just not vascular enough for Vince.
 
S

Snowman Prophet of Doom

Member
On the plus side, Rhodes vs. Real Americans was a pretty good match. Goldust continues to impress with the agility he's showing for a 40-something.

Edit: Why would they bring out Fandango's Lite Brite for Summer Rae wrestling? Why is Natalya coming out to Khali's music when she has her own? And on an unrelated note I hit last night, WHY do the Bellas still have music that is about them being cockteasing bitches when that doesn't seem to be their gimmick anymore?

Double Edit: November Wrasslin' |OT| I don't even watch NJPW, but fuck it, NAK-vember (till Big Show ruins that show, too)
 
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