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[Zaptruder]

for the rift, wouldn't you really want 60fps locked? Dropped frames or tearing would be really bad and ruin the immersion.

perhaps games with 'rift' modes could use dynamic details - a bit like wipeout on PS3 can change resolution on the fly to keep the framerate up

Somehow I doubt that it'll be as big a deal for most people than it is for people like Carmack

That is to say, dropped frame rates here and there will be noticeable - more so than normal gaming. And you'll definetly want to make sure that the average frame rate is significantly higher than normal...

But it doesn't seem like a few drops here and there is going to terribly mess up your sense of immersion - any more than sub-par resolution, low res textures, clipping, having your gun locked to head look, etc.

That is, it's a factor that will help immersion, and it's important... but 'not so bad that it'll ruin the immersion'.

Of course if it dips frequently down to 30fps, it won't be nearly as pleasant an experience. Kinda like gaming now dipping down to 15fps.

Sucks, but I can still play the game without been too distracted by it. Of course that varies from person to person, but I think most gamers, if they have to can ignore that kind of thing in favour of getting through the game. Only for a minority does this kind of thing become an intractable issue.

 

[TheExodu5]

I think drops/stutters would greatly impact my immersion more than anything else (well, other than input lag). That's already the case for me on a 2D monitor...I'd only think it will be even more amplified with the Rift.

I'm probably about as picky as Carmack when it comes to input lag and stutters or dropped frames, though.

 

[1-D_FTW]

SBS means that the image has to be rendered twice, doesn't it? Or is it a matter of rendering once, and then generating the offset frames from that one...

I'm going to stop now. My forays into 3D have mostly been sticking a disc into a blu-ray player, or else enabling 3D vision support. I've never had to screw around with SBS

Spoiler

except for some uh...well, you know, the kind of SBS material one finds on the internet

so I'm not really sure of the nuts and bolts.

With the new console generation, we should stop getting these console port games that are underwhelming compared to games made for the PC. That may mean that more games are difficult to maintain 60fps in at 1080p (like you mentioned). I guess we'll just have to hope that hardware has improved enough to the point that it doesn't matter. Ideally, you wouldn't have to sacrifice too much visual fidelity for immersion.



I guess it doesn't matter that it's drifting if you're basically recalibrating it with the sticks constantly. The important thing is that no one has complained about it at this point, so hopefully it's not an issue.

Wouldn't it really just be 960*1080 being rendered twice?

No kidding I'm just waiting for Apple to get a patent for patents...

In defense of Apple, I'm not sure they shot first. Didn't Samsung fire the first shot and then Apple said, "Really? You really wanna come after us? It's on!" This started quite a while ago.

Regardless, most of these patents should be shot in the garbage can. Agreed.

Somehow I doubt that it'll be as big a deal for most people than it is for people like Carmack

That is to say, dropped frame rates here and there will be noticeable - more so than normal gaming. And you'll definetly want to make sure that the average frame rate is significantly higher than normal...

But it doesn't seem like a few drops here and there is going to terribly mess up your sense of immersion - any more than sub-par resolution, low res textures, clipping, having your gun locked to head look, etc.

That is, it's a factor that will help immersion, and it's important... but 'not so bad that it'll ruin the immersion'.

Of course if it dips frequently down to 30fps, it won't be nearly as pleasant an experience. Kinda like gaming now dipping down to 15fps.

Sucks, but I can still play the game without been too distracted by it. Of course that varies from person to person, but I think most gamers, if they have to can ignore that kind of thing in favour of getting through the game. Only for a minority does this kind of thing become an intractable issue.

Yeah. I don't really need a framerate locked at 60fps myself. As long as it's close, it's not a major issue.

I am a 60fps lover, though. And I will say this about 3D: IMO, framerate makes an even bigger difference in 3D than 2D. Drop low enough and it completely destroys the experience. 3D really benefits from 60fps. Because a world with unlimited depth that is silky smooth in animation just comes alive.

 

[LordCanti]

Wouldn't it really just be 960*1080 being rendered twice?

Well, yeah, but that's more intensive than rendering 1920x1080 once, isn't it? I honestly don't know.

 

[Zaptruder]

I think drops/stutters would greatly impact my immersion more than anything else (well, other than input lag). That's already the case for me on a 2D monitor...I'd only think it will be even more amplified with the Rift.

I'm probably about as picky as Carmack when it comes to input lag and stutters or dropped frames, though.

in that case, you should either be happy to turn down graphics settings, or splash out on a beefy videocard

 

[Mr.Green]

So Palmer posted something juicy over at the mtbs3d forums. Juicy as long as you're as frickin obsessed as I am with this damn thing, that is. ;-)

That said... With VR taking off like it is, there is no reason that these systems need to cost so much anymore Most of the cost is in R&D and software, not the actual cameras! If there are tens of thousands of people buying tracking systems instead of tens of people, then a lot of savings can be passed onto the consumer. Oculus is having some very cool discussions, and I can assure you that the consumer Rift is going to have amazing tracking.

Head tracking, that is. Not just rotation (3DOF) like the current dev kit but also movement along the 3 axis so it can know when you're strafing, for instance. But more importantly, to eliminate motion sickness caused by the view not responding to movement.

 

[Zaptruder]

So Palmer posted something juicy over at the mtbs3d forums. Juicy as long as you're as frickin obsessed as I am with this damn thing, that is. ;-)



Head tracking, that is. Not just rotation (3DOF) like the current dev kit but also movement along the 3 axis so it can know when you're strafing, for instance. But more importantly, to eliminate motion sickness caused by the view not responding to movement.

I want to invest money in that man! AH MY MONIES TAKES IT!

 

[pottuvoi]

Well, yeah, but that's more intensive than rendering 1920x1080 once, isn't it? I honestly don't know.

yes, polygon work would be doubled. (well, the visible polygons at least.)
Also rendered polygons would be smaller making them less effective to render.

 

["God's Beard!"]

Can you use a Rift as a monitor? Like, does it only work when you play games or can you browse the internet with it too?

 

[Zaptruder]

Can you use a Rift as a monitor? Like, does it only work when you play games or can you browse the internet with it too?

Seems at this point, it'll only work in a 3D environment.

If someone creates a 3D OS interface, then this thing will be great for that.

Except it has crappy resolution.

 

[metareferential]

I think drops/stutters would greatly impact my immersion more than anything else (well, other than input lag). That's already the case for me on a 2D monitor...I'd only think it will be even more amplified with the Rift.

I'm probably about as picky as Carmack when it comes to input lag and stutters or dropped frames, though.

If he's (somewhat) satisfied with the end results on the devkits, then so am I.

There's plenty of time for improvements. But for now, give me the damn thing xD

December is so far away xD

 

[Scalemail Ted]

Poo. Having to pay for school left me in a possession where I couldn't invest into the e oculus rift. will dev kits stills be available when the product launches?

 

["God's Beard!"]

Seems at this point, it'll only work in a 3D environment.

If someone creates a 3D OS interface, then this thing will be great for that.

Except it has crappy resolution.

I guess it's wait and see for me, then.

 

[LordCanti]

Poo. Having to pay for school left me in a possession where I couldn't invest into the e oculus rift. will dev kits stills be available when the product launches?

Current plans are to get the dev kits out to everyone that ordered one, and then sell the second manufacturing run on their website.

It would be late December or sometime in January at the earliest.

 

[mrklaw]

So Palmer posted something juicy over at the mtbs3d forums. Juicy as long as you're as frickin obsessed as I am with this damn thing, that is. ;-)



Head tracking, that is. Not just rotation (3DOF) like the current dev kit but also movement along the 3 axis so it can know when you're strafing, for instance. But more importantly, to eliminate motion sickness caused by the view not responding to movement.

Good. Hopefully they manage a self contained unit, eg the camera(s) mounted on the head rather than on your computer. You don't need to track a specific point in space like trackIR, just shifts in movement, so your walls will be fine as a reference.

Two horizontal cameras at right angles (one facing forward, one facing left or right) should cover three axis well. Front camera can detect left/right movement, side camera can detect front/back movement, and both cameras can detect up/down. They could also be used to calibrate the gyros, if they are detecting movement but the cameras don't confirm it.

 

[Mr.Green]

Good. Hopefully they manage a self contained unit, eg the camera(s) mounted on the head rather than on your computer. You don't need to track a specific point in space like trackIR, just shifts in movement, so your walls will be fine as a reference.

My guess is that it'll use a magnetic field like the Razer Hydra or something.

 

[dallow_bg]

I wish I had created/thought of Kickstarter.

 

[Mr.Green]

I wish I had created/thought of Kickstarter.

And Ebay... And Facebook... And Twitter... And Angry Birds...

 

[LordCanti]

So....Valve has a VR headset in development. Odds on this coming out and making us all regret getting a Rift? Odds of this being dropped by Valve in favor of the Rift? Odds of Valve just buying Oculus and calling it a day?

 

[metareferential]

So....Valve has a VR headset in development. Odds on this coming out and making us all regret getting a Rift? Odds of this being dropped by Valve in favor of the Rift? Odds of Valve just buying Oculus and calling it a day?

Who knows. The important thing is the industry is moving in the right direction. Competition is good.

 

[DieH@rd]

So....Valve has a VR headset in development. Odds on this coming out and making us all regret getting a Rift? Odds of this being dropped by Valve in favor of the Rift? Odds of Valve just buying Oculus and calling it a day?

Valve really wants to create something AR related, but the problems with that tech will most likely push them into VR. It would be awesome if they would have something Oculus Rift compatible.

 

[jediyoshi]

So....Valve has a VR headset in development. Odds on this coming out and making us all regret getting a Rift? Odds of this being dropped by Valve in favor of the Rift? Odds of Valve just buying Oculus and calling it a day?

Same odds that Valve has a bunch of other crazy shit they work on and never plan to release to the public.

 

[LordCanti]

Same odds that Valve has a bunch of other crazy shit they work on and never plan to release to the public.

VR isn't crazy though. Oculus pretty much proved that you can throw together a VR headset with off the shelf parts for almost no money. There's no barrier that would keep Valve from creating a similar headset if they really wanted to, and the kickstarter basically showed that there are a lot of interested people out there that will buy such a thing.

 

[jediyoshi]

VR isn't crazy though. Oculus pretty much proved that you can throw together a VR headset with off the shelf parts for almost no money. There's no barrier that would keep Valve from creating a similar headset if they really wanted to, and the kickstarter basically showed that there are a lot of interested people out there that will buy such a thing.

VR is crazy. They tried to help Razor push their motion controllers which are orders of magnitude less crazy and financially proven elsewhere right on Steam itself and that still got them to nowheresville. If they wanted to push or support actual hardware again they'd probably dip their toes in something that isn't so niche.

 

[Zaptruder]

VR is crazy. They tried to help Razor push their motion controllers which are orders of magnitude less crazy and financially proven elsewhere right on Steam itself and that still got them to nowheresville. If they wanted to push or support actual hardware again they'd probably dip their toes in something that isn't so niche.

I strongly feel that VR is one those 'crazy' techs... until it gets to the point where its good enough, and then once someone tries it... it will just make complete and utter sense.

Before that happens, people will point at the trail of broken bodies leading up to it and exclaim until they're blue in the face - look at how it doesn't work!

It was kinda like that for Tablets too... until the iPad came out.

I just hope that doesn't mean VR is going to be shit until Apple decides to move in on it (it doesn't seem like an Apple thing to work on really).

The upside is that the Rift seems to be that inflection point for a lot of people.

 

[1-D_FTW]

So....Valve has a VR headset in development. Odds on this coming out and making us all regret getting a Rift? Odds of this being dropped by Valve in favor of the Rift? Odds of Valve just buying Oculus and calling it a day?

http://blogs.valvesoftware.com/abra...o-the-future-of-wearable-computing-part-1-vr/

A new and most excellent post from Abrush. They are not on an immediate release path. They still don't even know what the best intermediary path is (although it seems they're beginning to embrace the merits of VR as part of that stepping process).

By the time the Rift has a consumer product (late 2013 seems optimistic to me), you'll have a much better idea if Valve has shifted direction some.

VR is crazy. They tried to help Razor push their motion controllers which are orders of magnitude less crazy and financially proven elsewhere right on Steam itself and that still got them to nowheresville. If they wanted to push or support actual hardware again they'd probably dip their toes in something that isn't so niche.

Here's something to consider: The future is very murky. Platforms are murky. Do consoles have a future is murky. Do desktop PCs have a future is murky. And even if they do, will Windows remain an open platform or become closed?

Technology has also kind of stalled. Except in the mobile space where advancements are happening with huge leaps.

Fast forward five years. What is the PC/console market even going to look like? What's the game market going to look like? How far will mobile tech have advanced?

What's my point? In five years, it's entirely possible you could have insane performance built into a headset using this hardware (for relatively cheap). You could have it be its own platform. With an open OS running on it. And it could be such an insane leap in immersion levels that nobody would even care if the dedicated PC/console market had gone in the toilet... because this platform is radically better for gaming anyways.

I'm not saying this is going to happen, but when you consider a lot of the heavyweights see this tech as new platforms to be controlled, it's understandable why Valve would want to put some chips in the center of the table. It really could keep them relevant (with potential for massive growth) in the gaming market.

 

[mrklaw]

I'm not sure I agree that hard AR is where we want to ultimately be. Even in his blog post, he talks about how VR will likely be a main form of entertainment even when AR is widely available. I just can't imagine what games will benefit from being in the real world. In controlled game centres, sure - but that's still fairly niche.

The problem is that the real world is real. How many games are set in modern times? How would the public react to random people going 'pew pew' in the middle of the street, and fighting invisible aliens? I just can't see it. To me it'll need a controlled environment (so why not just use full VR anyway). AR seems more useful as an information overlay tool, so you can get billboard and storefronts personalised just for you etc

 

[Zaptruder]

I'm not sure I agree that hard AR is where we want to ultimately be. Even in his blog post, he talks about how VR will likely be a main form of entertainment even when AR is widely available. I just can't imagine what games will benefit from being in the real world. In controlled game centres, sure - but that's still fairly niche.

The problem is that the real world is real. How many games are set in modern times? How would the public react to random people going 'pew pew' in the middle of the street, and fighting invisible aliens? I just can't see it. To me it'll need a controlled environment (so why not just use full VR anyway). AR seems more useful as an information overlay tool, so you can get billboard and storefronts personalised just for you etc

Well... hard AR will be useful for non-gaming applications mainly.

The real world is ripe for some hardcore digital interaction. Been able to see into fridges without opening doors... been able to control devices with AR interfaces. Virtual pets running around your house.

 

["God's Beard!"]

I hope the compatability keeps going up, using this with a Novint Falcon would be a godsend for sculpting in ZBrush.

 

[iceatcs]

I hope it going to use it on nolimits rollercoaster simulation.

OR a control emulator on old games/apps would be great.

 

[Mr.Green]

Yet another interview/demo video. I like how the guy completely disconnects from the real world and doesn't seem to give a shit about the annoying host once he puts the Rift on.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Yet another interview/demo video. I like how the guy completely disconnects from the real world and doesn't seem to give a shit about the annoying host once he puts the Rift on.

That's Chris Kohler you heathen

 

[metareferential]

Yet another interview/demo video. I like how the guy completely disconnects from the real world and doesn't seem to give a shit about the annoying host once he puts the Rift on.

Aahaha look at his face.

That's happiness if I ever saw it.

 

[Mr.Green]

That's Chris Kohler you heathen

The name rings a bell... I don't doubt he’s a reputable games "journalist", but comes across as terribly phony as a host, imo.

 

[1-D_FTW]

The name rings a bell... I don't doubt he’s a reputable games "journalist", but comes across as terribly phony as a host, imo.

He's with Wired. He's also Kobunheat @gaf.

 

[Mr.Green]

He's with Wired. He's also Kobunheat @gaf.

Oh well... No offense intended etc...

 

[Durante]

THere are a lot of new job positions open at the Oculus site:
http://oculusvr.com/careers/

It seems like the sensor and display in the consumer version might be less off-the-shelf than we thought.

 

[mrklaw]

THere are a lot of new job positions open at the Oculus site:
http://oculusvr.com/careers/

It seems like the sensor and display in the consumer version might be less off-the-shelf than we thought.

good. Carmack got some good responses from the sensor company when he wanted a higher frequency of response, but nothing is as good as doing it yourself.

First consumer version might still be off the shelf, but it makes sense to have control of critical items inhouse.

 

[Mr.Green]

Good news for those who pledged for a dev kit! A few posts made by Palmer on the MTBS forums seem to indicate that we'll get an upgrade over what's been shown/talked about so far. (Besides the enclosure, that is)

Slightly better lenses, and different screen. The Rift is going to have an even wider field of view than we have been showing, with better response and colors to boot!

The good news about the dev kit is that it looks like we can push it a little further than the 90 we originally expected.

And for those who are kicking themselves for missing the Kickstarter:

Jaybug, we will be adding non-Kickstarter orders to our website in the next two weeks.

I hope that pulling his posts here doesn't bother him or anyone.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Good news for those who pledged for a dev kit! A few posts made by Palmer on the MTBS forums seem to indicate that we'll get an upgrade over what's been shown/talked about so far. (Besides the enclosure, that is)





And for those who are kicking themselves for missing the Kickstarter:



I hope that pulling his posts here doesn't bother him or anyone.

Great news on multiple fronts. The response time on that old panel left a lot to be desired, so that's a most welcome upgrade indeed.

 

[Naked Snake]

What is he referring to by "the 90 we originally expected"?

 

[Durante]

What is he referring to by "the 90 we originally expected"?

90° FoV.

 

[1-D_FTW]

Did you guys see how Routine (it's been Greenlit on Steam) is hoping to implement Rift support? Game looks amazing (let alone for a student project):

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92985806

90° FoV.

Yeah. It was 110 * 90 (horizontal and vertical). They were saying how the prototype 6.1 inch Sharp would allow them to get close to 110 for both vertical and horizontal. So I would assume that means the new screen is a little bit larger than the old developer screen.

EDIT: Or maybe it's simply due to better optics.

 

[gofreak]

Did you guys see how Routine (it's been Greenlit on Steam) is hoping to implement Rift support? Game looks amazing (let alone for a student project):

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92985806

Thanks for the link. I'm definitely looking forward to space-y and sci-fi-y games with HMD support.

 

[LordCanti]

Did you guys see how Routine (it's been Greenlit on Steam) is hoping to implement Rift support? Game looks amazing (let alone for a student project):

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=92985806



Yeah. It was 110 * 90 (horizontal and vertical). They were saying how the prototype 6.1 inch Sharp would allow them to get close to 110 for both vertical and horizontal. So I would assume that means the new screen is a little bit larger than the old developer screen.

EDIT: Or maybe it's simply due to better optics.

My guess would be optics. They had nailed down the UMPC screen as the one to be used in the developer kit, hadn't they?

As far as that game goes...man I hope the black levels on the Rift's screen are up to the challenge of a game that is mostly black. That could be pretty awesome, if it's not a dark grey (instead of black) mess.

 

[1-D_FTW]

My guess would be optics. They had nailed down the UMPC screen as the one to be used in the developer kit, hadn't they?

Mr. Green posted quotes yesterday where they stated they've updated the screen to a better model (better response time and colors).

 

[LordCanti]

Mr. Green posted quotes yesterday where they stated they've updated the screen to a better model (better response time and colors).

I saw that quote on the MTB forums, but it was in response to a guy building his own Rift wasn't it? I read it as "the Rift has better lenses and a different screen than your DIY version" and not "we've updated the screen in the Rift to a different screen".

I'm probably wrong. I don't know how they'd improve the colors on a screen that was already a known quantity.

If the screen is higher quality, I'm definitely not going to complain.

 

[Mr.Green]

As far as that game goes...man I hope the black levels on the Rift's screen are up to the challenge of a game that is mostly black. That could be pretty awesome, if it's not a dark grey (instead of black) mess.

I wouldn't worry about that for the consumer version. Unless they change panels at the last minute, the dev kits shipping in December will use LCD panels so the blacks probably won't be the best. I guess you don't need much backlight though, considering your view is completely isolated from ambient light, the size of the screen and the distance your eyes are from it... So blacks might be pretty frickin' black.

If I was a betting person, from what I've read between the lines I'd bet the final product will ship with an OLED panel capable of 120Hz.

 

[Fried Food]

I wouldn't worry about that for the consumer version. Unless they change panels at the last minute, the dev kits shipping in December will use LCD panels so the blacks probably won't be the best. I guess you don't need much backlight though, considering your view is completely isolated from ambient light, the size of the screen and the distance your eye are from it... So blacks might be pretty frickin' black.

If I was a betting person, from what I've read between the lines I'd bet the final product will ship with an OLED panel capable of 120Hz.

I'd think that would make the blacks worse? A tv with poor contrast will still appear to have fairly deep blacks if its played in a lit environment. It's when you remove the ambient lighting that the poor contrast becomes a problem.

 

[TTP]

I'd think that would make the blacks worse? A tv with poor contrast will still appear to have fairly deep blacks if its played in a lit environment. It's when you remove the ambient lighting that the poor contrast becomes a problem.

He means that since you don't have to deal with ambient light you can keep the Rift screen brightness (backlight level) rather low, hence deeper blacks.