Official 2011 MLB Thread v.2: The Mets are terrible.

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Windu said:
the braves are probably either going to resign Alex for another year or some other SS as a stopgap for pastrinicky who I think they view as the future SS.

From what I read Pastrinicky is not very good offensively and may not be Gonzalez's equal on defense.
 
Celsior said:
Then Posada would become the backup catcher because Mont would have to DH?
Just wait to September, less headaches.
You have Montero as the backup catcher. He would only catch about once a week just like Cervelli and you could have him split time at dh.
 
I'm happy that Minor got the win. Other than some early scares to the leadoff batters, he pitched a good game, and the 3 headed monster got the game locked away for him.
 
no-pressure-just-cant-make-a-single-isolated-mistake-in-any-capacity.jpg

*Insert any giants pitcher.
 
verbum said:
From what I read Pastrinicky is not very good offensively and may not be Gonzalez's equal on defense.
His defense is supposed to be slightly above average. He's definitely not as good with the glove as Alex, but his bat has taken a decent step forward this year. You're basically looking at a floor of major league average for Pastornicky, which is perfectly fine.
 
@junkstats Jacob Peterson
Craig Kimbrel is so damn good. And he's only 23 years old.
4 minutes ago

@ajcbraves David O'Brien
#Braves Kimbrel leads majors with 37 saves, hasn't allowed a run in more than two months
4 minutes ago

mmmmmmmm so good
 
5-1 against the giants this season. nice. Wish we could have done that in the postseason...
verbum said:
From what I read Pastrinicky is not very good offensively and may not be Gonzalez's equal on defense.
Baseball america said he had plus range in the trade analysis last season and Peter Hjort of capitol avenue said he had above average range as well.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/trade-central/2010/2610369.html
http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=3179
http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=4596

Seems like he will be a better hitter (duh) than gonzo but a worse defender but still above average.
 
SuperMalo said:
Swish and Andrew! That was a monster shot.
andruw
captmcblack said:
Andruw Jones swinging like it's 2005 in here.

I really, really miss that AJ - he was one of my favorite players, even though he was a Brave.
hall of famer
 
Windu said:
5-1 against the giants this season. nice. Wish we could have done that in the postseason...

Baseball america said he had plus range in the trade analysis last season and Peter Hjort of capitol avenue said he had above average range as well.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/majors/trade-central/2010/2610369.html
http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=3179
http://capitolavenueclub.com/?p=4596

Seems like he will be a better hitter (duh) than gonzo but a worse defender but still above average.
I think it's 6-1 actually. We swept them in a 3 game series last time, then 3-1 this time.
 
Sharp said:
Awesome, Bryce Harper just injured his hammy and apparently can't put weight on it. There goes the rest of his season.
Well, he had a good career. Toss him on the pile with Strasburg. Hey, at least Rendon has a clean bill of health, right?
 
fangraphs defense CF all time

1 - Andruw Jones 274
2 - Willie Mays 185

Baseball Reference

1 - Andruw Jones 23.7
2 - Willie Mays 18.5
 
CygnusXS said:
Well, he had a good career. Toss him on the pile with Strasburg. Hey, at least Rendon has a clean bill of health, right?
Meh, it's just a hammy injury. I'm just pissed off because it's going to delay his development.
 
Okay, fuck sabermetrics - there is no way I'm going to really accept the idea that Andruw Jones was a better defender than Willie Mays, probably a top 5 defender in the outfield all-time.
 
captmcblack said:
Okay, fuck sabermetrics - there is no way I'm going to really accept the idea that Andruw Jones was a better defender than Willie Mays, probably a top 5 defender in the outfield all-time.
The old defensive numbers are all based on TZR and the new ones have UZR thrown in, which is why I really don't think the Fangraphs numbers are terribly comparable (though UZR is better). But I don't know why you can't accept that he was a ridiculous defender. There's a lot more to outfield defense than pure speed.
 
I do think it's close for the HOF and I know that Andrew was hella good and probably the best glove ever out there but I still don't like how defense fWAR is kinda outlandish in some cases.
11 WAR difference with B-R is too wide of a range there.
 
wWAR
Andruw Jones: It is scary how good Total Zone says his defense was. And UZR might actually like him more. He rates as the best defensive outfielder ever, with 240 runs. His offense might actually be a bit overrated, as he clocks in at 97 run. Still, those defensive marks boost him to 59.9 WAR and 94.2 wWAR, comfortably in Hall of Fame territory.
also, Bobby Cox who saw both willie and jones play, said time and time again that jones was the better defender. Now of course take that with a grain a salt considering bobby always says great things about his players.

edit: also, don't tell old braves fans that andruw was better than dale murphy, they go insane. I had that argument last season on some braves boards. Quite amusing.
 
clemenx said:
I do think it's close for the HOF and I know that Andrew was hella good and probably the best glove ever out there but I still don't like how defense fWAR is kinda outlandish in some cases.
11 WAR difference with B-R is too wide of a range there.
Not really, when you consider that B-R is using very conservative defensive metrics in order to make new and older players more comparable. I think Fangraphs probably is capturing his value better... it's just that other older players may have been much better (or worse) defensively than TZR thinks they were, too.
 
Sharp said:
Not really, when you consider that B-R is using very conservative defensive metrics in order to make new and older players more comparable. I think Fangraphs probably is capturing his value better... it's just that other older players may have been much better (or worse) defensively than TZR thinks they were, too.
Conservative in relation to what? I do admit having not knowledge about defensive metrics other than basic stuff about UZR I've read in fangraphs, so some links would be appreciated. I tend to ignore defense in most WAR because I really don't understand how it works, that's why I frown upon to the crazy numbers UZR gives some seasons (Lol 2009 Ben Zobrist)
I do think they work wonderfully in giving a general sense if someone is good or bad with the glove but I wonder how exact they are. But I understand the intrinsic limitations with trying to measure defense.
 
TZR is basically someone saying "okay, we don't actually know what the defenders were doing but we know how many flyballs dropped in left etc. and how many putouts were recorded by the player so we can distribute the blame in a way that seems reasonable and get a primitive understanding of a player's defense." With UZR, people actually divide the field into zones and figure out which zones a defender is making plays in, then assigns each play a runs prevented value based on the percentage of players at their who record outs in that zone. Because people don't get a ton of defensive chances and one great play / lousy play can skew things, UZR isn't very reliable in small samples, but over a player's career it's very good.
 
Not sure you need to accept that Andruw Jones was better than Willie Mays to see him as a Hall of Famer. He has 414 HR and played the best CF any of us has ever seen. And he's still only 34.
 
Dmncnby2k9 said:
The guy is a beast.
And totally agree with you Cajole.
I think Mets fans understand second to Braves fans just how incredible he was in CF. He played so goddamn shallow and still got to almost everything over his head.
 
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