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Official April 2008 NPD thread of massive disappointment if you're not Nintendo

Link

The Autumn Wind
Bastion said:
One last question, so if the more traditional consoles suddenly were gone and all you had was the Wii or similar type systems, how would you feel?
I'd keep finding games that I liked and continue on with the rest of my life.

Look, I'm nearly 27 years old. I have higher priorities than videogames. Maybe you're younger and it's more of a focus in your life, but it's not like I need a new game every month. There's plenty of genres that I used to play that we just don't see much of anymore. So I find other games that I like and buy the occasional game that does come out in those genres. It's really not a life-altering situation.
 
Bastion said:
And you just made my point extremely valid. I too play the Wii with my kids. I have fun as do they but it is fun like board game fun. It is not fun like playing a more traditional videogame.
Yeah, the 360 doesn't have any board game fun bullshit.

Say, do you want to come over to my house and play that new XBLA trivia game? I only have three scene-it controllers, so if you bring a friend, don't bring too many.

One last question, so if the more traditional consoles suddenly were gone and all you had was the Wii or similar type systems, how would you feel?
...then all the traditional games would be on the Wii? That would be, uh, bad, I guess for some reason? I guess the lack of competition would suck.

This is kind of like asking how someone can only own a DS. They can manage it fairly well.
 

legend166

Member
Bastion, even if the Wii existed you would not continue to see the same jump in hardware every single generation, because the budgets are just not sustainable.

GTA IV costs $100 million. I don't even know if that includes marketing. Can you imagine how much GTA V will cost next gen? 200 million? More?

Go find Opiates post a while back.
 

Narag

Member
Bastion said:
You can't be serious. Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb. They even said they were betting the farm on the Wii and DS. If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business.

That sounds like having everything to lose.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
sonycowboy said:
While expectations for GTA IV weren't met, and HW sales saw NO boost from the title, this is getting a bit ridiculous.

GTA: SA sold 2.05M units it's first month. GTA IV sold 2.85M in it's first month - IN APRIL
Halo 2 sold ~3.3M in it's first month. Halo 3 sold 3.3M in it's first month.

I suppose it's possible people were claiming that GTA was "diminishing" back then, but I doubt it.
That post was just part of the "lulz GTA" circlejerk. I was being ridiculous. :p

I am a fanboy owning up to my fanboy shenanigans.

Seriously though I don't think there's nothing to worry about. The problems that do exist are ones that were there since the beginning of the generation.

Tristam said:
Can you say, with absolute certainty, that implementing a competent online service -- in which they could and probably would charge exorbitant prices for a proprietary headset -- and selling their OWN HDD solution would somehow put Nintendo in the red?
Based on the Xbox Division's performance and the MS capital that is afforded to MS, yes.
 
fortune_wii.jpg
 

sprocket

Banned
ehh all i know is I am playing MGS4 and quake wars on my ps3/360 next month and soul caliber 4 the month after that. .... All while my Wii gently weeps... *guitar*
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
Bastion said:
You can't be serious. Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb. They even said they were betting the farm on the Wii and DS. If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business.
Isn't that the exact opposite of "nothing to lose"?
 

Quazar

Member
Quazar said:
Did anyone post this yet?

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=18679

"Following today's release of NPD sales data for April, which showed Grand Theft Auto IV and Mario Kart Wii top the software charts as expected while Wii and Nintendo DS held on firmly to the top hardware slots, Gamasutra caught up with Microsoft product management director Aaron Greenberg to get his take.

Greenberg gave his thoughts on Xbox 360 and PS3's neck-and-neck sales rate, Wii's near-match of 360's total U.S. sales, how 2008 will be the industry's best year ever, and why he believes Sony is mistaken when it comes to European sales figures and whether GTA4's planned downloadable content will remain 360-exclusive."

For this new page. ^^
 

Bastion

Member
Rhazer Fusion said:
I really don't think he is trolling. He is just saying, why would say, Microsoft want to invest millions or billions into a true next generation console when they might think it is more beneficial to them financially in creating a console with similar capabilities to their current generation with motion sensor controls? Coincidentally enough, there is a rumor that Microsoft has a motion controller in the works. I am pretty sure he is saying, not everyone wants to embrace motion controlled games and prefer traditional games and controls in instead, that's all. I know HD games and traditional games are still there and will be around for a little while longer, but he is probably a tad concerned about the next generation, especially with the cost of development increasing on a weekly basis.

Ding, Ding Ding!!! Exactly!! Gosh, I love Nintendo games. But it is the games that make them good, not the system.
 

legend166

Member
Bastion said:
You can't be serious. Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb. They even said they were betting the farm on the Wii and DS. If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business.


wat
 
Rated-Rsuperstar said:
Well when you walk into a target or a blockbuster and the Wii has more shelf space for shovelware shit then the 360/ps3 combined. I think he's allowed to be upset.
A typical Blockbuster store next month...

Wii Play - 1 Row
Carnival Games - 1 Row
Deca Sports - 1 Row
Wii Fit - 1 Entire Shelf

Okami Wii - 1 Game Case
Zack & Wiki - Selling for $4.99 in the used game bin :lol
 

Bastion

Member
_Alkaline_ said:
:lol :lol :lol

You do realize the Wii is new tech too? Ever heard of the remote? It's only like, one of the greatest risks a console manufacturer has taken in the last decade.


You can't be serious. Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb this gen. They even said they were betting the farm on the Wii and DS. If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business.
 
I mostly play my XBOX 360, but Super Mario Galaxy is definitely the most creative and inspired game I've played this generation. If Wii's success means we get more games like SMG, I think it will have a future much brighter than either of the two console can hope to achieve. That said, I'm not holding my breath.
 
Bastion said:
You can't be serious. Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb. They even said they were betting the farm on the Wii and DS. If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business.

You can't be serious. Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb. They even said they were betting the farm on the Wii and DS. If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business

Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb...If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business

nothing to lose...might have been out of the console business

wat
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
soldat7 said:
I'm also one of the people that didn't own a PS2 the first time around. Interesting.
And are you playing the PS2 or the Wii version?

This is actually a rhetorical question because I already checked back and see you are playing the PS2 one. So really, not only did you have no argument to begin with, but you pretty much are the very reason for the objections you're making.


EDIT -
Bastion said:
But it is the games that make them good, not the system.
I want you to repeat that to yourself several times.
 

Bastion

Member
Link said:
I'd keep finding games that I liked and continue on with the rest of my life.

Look, I'm nearly 27 years old. I have higher priorities than videogames. Maybe you're younger and it's more of a focus in your life, but it's not like I need a new game every month. There's plenty of genres that I used to play that we just don't see much of anymore. So I find other games that I like and buy the occasional game that does come out in those genres. It's really not a life-altering situation.

Look, I am 37. I very rarely post on board as I do not have the time. Tonight is different after seeing the NPD.

Your answer seems to have as much spin as a politician.
 

soldat7

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
...then all the traditional games would be on the Wii? That would be, uh, bad, I guess for some reason? I guess the lack of competition would suck.

Lack of competition would indeed suck. And without the PS3/360 you'd see a much, much stronger PC market to balance the Wii.

The Wii is a fantastic console but you will simply never see a major third-party franchise like a Gears of War or a Metal Gear Solid born on the Wii.

Nintendo hasn't exactly fertilized and cultivated the ground for third-parties because that would not be in their best interest.
 

PkunkFury

Member
Bastion said:
You can't be serious. Nintendo had nothing to lose from going out on a limb. They even said they were betting the farm on the Wii and DS. If people didn't like it, they might have been out of the console business.

I don't know, the farm is an awful thing to lose


edit: but as others have pointed out, that whole post was a mess :lol
 

Link

The Autumn Wind
Bastion said:
Look, I am 37. I very rarely post on board as I do not have the time. Tonight is different after seeing the NPD.

Your answer seems to have as much spin as a politician.
How is what I posted spin? Because I disagree with you?
 

Acid08

Banned
Is that 1 million on PS3 and 1.85 million on 360 in, what, one day? That's pretty fucking impressive. Let's see what happens in May. I don't know if the "PS2 crowd" would have bought hardware day one for GTA4.
 

Bastion

Member
Narag said:
That sounds like having everything to lose.

No actually not. They had already lost and were being eaten alive trying to compete with Sony and Microsoft. So they changed big time. If they stayed the same, they would be done this gen.
 
Narag said:
Do the GTAs have traditionally long legs?

According to Wikipedia, by September 2007 (a little less than three years) GTA:SA went on to sell 8.6 million in the US. As of March of this year, it's at over 21 million worldwide.
 

Grecco

Member
Acid08 said:
Is that 1 million on PS3 and 1.85 million on 360 in, what, one day? That's pretty fucking impressive. Let's see what happens in May. I don't know if the "PS2 crowd" would have bought hardware day one for GTA4.


5 days.
 
PARANO1A said:
So how many PS3's are people guessing MGS4 will move is GTA4 couldn't do it for either system?

The PS3 will receive a very large bump from Metal Gear 4 because, as it stands as of right now, it is an exclusive. The fact that it is going to be included in a bundle is huge.

GAF is eating crow right now, in general. The egg on most our faces stings of embarrassment.
 
MisterHero said:
Based on the Xbox Division's performance and the MS capital that is afforded to MS, yes.

You've stated this several times, but the 360 is making money, has been for the last 9 months at least. If it weren't for the RROD fiasco MS would've been making money hand over fist starting in early 07.

Absinthe said:
The PS3 will receive a very large bump from Metal Gear 4 because, as it stands as of right now, it is an exclusive. The fact that it is going to be included in a bundle is huge.

The "Only on Playstation 3" sign is going to sell systems? I have my doubts. I'm seriously doubting the game will even sell as well as COD4 (PS3), especially if MG Online is sold separately.

Since when are PS3/360 home to traditional games? The only consoles that have traditional games are DS/wii.

Am i the only one noticing the ridiculous flaw saying that 360/PS3 are home to traditional gaming.

Now this is just getting silly. Every troll comment does not deserve an equal and opposite counter-troll.
 

legend166

Member
Bastion said:
No actually not. They had already lost and were being eaten alive trying to compete with Sony and Microsoft. So they changed big time. If they stayed the same, they would be done this gen.

Well, not really since they were still making profit.

The Wii and DS could have flopped and instead of simply being 3rd place, they would have no longer existed.
 
sonycowboy said:
While expectations for GTA IV weren't met, and HW sales saw NO boost from the title, this is getting a bit ridiculous.

GTA: SA sold 2.05M units it's first month. GTA IV sold 2.85M in it's first month - IN APRIL
Halo 2 sold ~3.3M in it's first month. Halo 3 sold 3.3M in it's first month.

I suppose it's possible people were claiming that GTA was "diminishing" back then, but I doubt it.
If GTA still fails to move hardware, then the remaining PS360 userbase wouldn't be enough to sustain the PS2 like performance of the earlier games.
 

Bastion

Member
ShockingAlberto said:
Yeah, the 360 doesn't have any board game fun bullshit.

Say, do you want to come over to my house and play that new XBLA trivia game? I only have three scene-it controllers, so if you bring a friend, don't bring too many.


Hey, I am not a fan of most XBLA stuff. That is again casual stuff that I don't play. The difference is that is on the side, not the console itself.



...then all the traditional games would be on the Wii? That would be, uh, bad, I guess for some reason? I guess the lack of competition would suck.



Why yes, yes it would, due to lack of HD and forcing us to use the Wiimote.
 
I should state that I don't expect Metal Gear 4 to propel the PS3 past the Wii and I don't expect it to move a million PS3s either. I do, however, expect Sony to wipe the floor with the 360 in June.
 
Bastion said:
One last question, so if the more traditional consoles suddenly were gone and all you had was the Wii or similar type systems, how would you feel?

Lol. Nothing like illogical hypotheticals. What if all food disappeared tomorrow but bread and macaroni?

Well I'm guess I'd be eating macaroni sandwiches but that isn't going to happen so I'm not really that worried about it.
 
Since when are PS3/360 home to traditional games? The only consoles that have traditional games are DS/wii.

Am i the only one noticing the ridiculous flaw saying that 360/PS3 are home to traditional gaming.
 

JavyOO7

Member
Bastion said:
For people that absolutely love that Nintendo is kicking arse right now, I have a question for you.

Are you more excited that Nintendo in general is winning a console race once again or are more excited about how great the Wii and it's games are selling?

I used to like Nintendo until they "sold out" this generation. The Wii is an embarrassment to gaming. I have loved traditional hardcore games for over two decades and this casual stuff makes me sick.

The main reason it really ticks me off is because now game companies will start spending more money on Wii games which takes away from the real consoles. It ticks me off that a game like Fatal Frame 4 is not on PS3/360. It should never be a Wii game, at least not the main iteration.

I can't fault Nintendo for doing what they did. They are making tons of money which is every businesses goal. I do not have to like it and can give my opinion on it.

Cry me a fucking river.

Sold out? How? By being smart? Then shit I'm surprised not every single company out there hasn't done what Nintendo has done yet.

All Nintendo has done is create games for two specific markets. The hard core market where they release the Mario's and Zelda's and Donkey Kong's and the casual market where they released Nintendogs, Brain Training, Animal Crossing and etc. And the casual market, the same market which was the reason why the NES/SNES/PS1/PS2/GB/GBC and the DS and Wii now have on a strangle hold is why the former and latter consoles have done so well. The hardcore market is a small market and is no where near the size of the casual market. At first I was just like you, spouting off how Nintendo had 'sold out' the hardcore and had focused on the casuals. But then I realized the brilliance of their plan. Those same casuals, you know, the same folk you hate for some stupid reason, is the reason why the Animal Crossings and Nintendogs of the world have sold so well. Its why the Twilight Princess and Mario Galaxy of the world have done so well. You think 5 million hardcore players in Japan bought NSMB? My fucking ass they did. The hardcore were plenty for those titles and many others but the juggernaut of the beast is that the casual gamer that Nintendo has been furiously targeting all of this time have decided: "Well you know what, I don't want a PSP or anything else. I like Brain Training but I want some thing else... oh snap, Mario!!" And then the domino effect came. And here we are today.

I have always wanted ever since the SNES came and went was a console where I could control the game through motion. I remember days on end playing Ken Griffey on the SNES wishing I could swing the bat on my own without pressing a button. A decade and a half later that idea came true. I'm sorry to say this, but THIS is where gaming is heading next. And you feel this won't evolve any further? Its always been GRAPHICS GRAPHICS GRAPHICS. That's fucking fantastic! I'm a graphic whore myself! Do I wish Mario Galaxy could push millions of polygons more and look fucking snazzy on a 1080P television with a 120 frame rate? Basically looking like the next toy story? Absolutely! Its not like I'll suck off of Nintendo's teat and tell myself they are great and they are perfect. They are far from it. Their online needs help and they are behind in features by an entire generation, the Wii is basically a souped up Game Cube, their Virtual Console titles need to drop by 3 bucks for each console... but guess what. All those negatives CANNOT take away the positives that the Wii has for ME and the other 20 plus million assholes who bought the Wii. I get tired of Mario Kart for the day? Okay, there's always Wii Sports. But OH! You say "Lawl, Wii Sports? You aren't hardcore for shit!" I'm not, am I? Well piss off. I'm probably more hardcore than you for fucks sakes. Wii Sports is no doubt a shallow experience that could be improved on in years to come, but guess what, once again the positives for ME outweighs the negatives that game has and that goes for every other Nintendo title released for the Wii.

I even dare say it that the Wii is just as much next gen than the PS3 and 360 other. So it doesn't have the main ingredient, GRAPHICS. Okay, so? The graphics for the Wii are no way perfect and Super Mario Galaxy would be considered a low end game for the 360, but its that controller input is what will ultimately push millions of more people to buy a Wii regardless of how crap it looks compared to Gears of War and Uncharted.

What is your fear? That your lovable hardcore games will go the way of the do do? Are you INSANE? And I thought borghe was insane for insisting that John Cena was actually a good wrestler. Guess what, for the ends of time there will always be developers that have titles that tailor to the hardcore and are THANKFUL that there are other casual gamers out there who want to try out the next sequel in Uncharted or Gears of War or whatever. So why are you so worried? Oh right, because this constant need of GRAPHICS and HIGH DEFINITION is what fuels you. And having that jRPG that goes on for 80 hours with a storyline about Cloud fending off Sephiroth with a BIG ASS SWORD and exploring or having some bald spaced marine fending off 500 enemies without getting hurt once like a scene from Ninja Scroll... because that's fine! That's fantastic I love that shit. But you know what I also love? Immersing myself in a video game by controlling personally what goes on in the game. And the Wii has offered that to me. Everyone in this board hated Elebits for some reason but its actually my second favorite game because holy shit its fucking awesome playing with the floaty physics of that game. Am I not hardcore enough for you? Do you want me to play Contra 5 on the 360 for you to prove you my worth? Please.

Listen. This industry (just like any other industry I'm sure) is a dog eat dog industry. Only the toughest survive. Nintendo years back thought "oh fuck we are done with". So what did they do? Change their strategies and look where they are now? But they sold out you say! So I'm assuming Mario Kart, Mario Galaxy, Zelda and all the other Nintendo shit is old stuff and you want to play fucking Call of Duty because its such a magnificent new concept of a game and oh my god look how many ways you can ass rape that solder HIYAHHHH!

My un important and useless prediction of the day is simple: motion controllers are the future. Developers of all walks of life are going to have to change their game design concepts completely to accommodate for an ever growing market of people wanting to inter act with a game... and is that so bad? Is that so bad that your MOTHER or FATHER want to game now as well? So what if they don't game the shit that you play? Isn't not whats more important is that they are enjoying the same hobby that years back probably they looked at you like you just gave them a hitler salute and laughed at your face for hours on end? Whats so bad about a new market (or rather, an ever existing market multiplied times fifty) that wants to play video games? Is that so bad? Because guess what, if Rock star one day decides to release I AM A FUCKING NON GAME that has the best motion controlling ever and out sells GRAND THEFT AUTO 4: HERE WE GO AGAIN and it sells pretty damn well in its own right... is that going to kill you? Because if it does, maybe its time for you to take a step back and not take video games too seriously. Or maybe you should be subjected to having Mike Tenay and Don West scream at your fucking television every 5 seconds.

This talk of 'real' consoles makes me laugh too damn hard. Give me a fucking break. You aren't that hard core, you are just a hardly core. Just stand back and realize whats going on in the industry right now will benefit the I AM A FUCKING NON GAMER market and the I AM A FUCKING HARDCORE GAMER market will benefit from this as well. But your Halo 3 mountain dew filled rage won't let you see that. Hopefully it does.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
Absinthe said:
I should state that I don't expect Metal Gear 4 to propel the PS3 past the Wii and I don't expect it to move a million PS3s either. I do, however, expect Sony to wipe the floor with the 360 in June.

Indeed.
 
Absinthe said:
I should state that I don't expect Metal Gear 4 to propel the PS3 past the Wii and I don't expect it to move a million PS3s either. I do, however, expect Sony to wipe the floor with the 360 in June.

I get the feeling most of the folks that want to play MGS4 already have a PS3; so it will just sell to the installed base. MGS4 will not shift hardware and I expect PS3 to be shamed yet again.
 

Narag

Member
_leech_ said:
According to Wikipedia, by September 2007 (a little less than three years) GTA:SA went on to sell 8.6 million in the US. As of March of this year, it's at over 21 million worldwide.
Thank you.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
You've stated this several times, but the 360 is making money, has been for the last 9 months at least. If it weren't for the RROD fiasco MS would've been making money hand over fist starting in early 07.
Thanks, early on in this thread I was asking if this was the case or not.

What I'm getting at is just that all of them have things to work on, and Nintendo's NWC/memory issue is no exception. It's just not crippling their performance, as their own hardware/software sales show.
 

Bastion

Member
EDIT - I want you to repeat that to yourself several times.[/QUOTE]


But when the system is old tech with a control system I do not like, I would rather Nintendo would have just kept the Gamecube going. The Wii is a system I do not like for two major reasons:
1. Waggle control and the whole remote control design
2. lack of HD
 
Bastion said:
Why yes, yes it would, due to lack of HD and forcing us to use the Wiimote.
Yeah, forcing us to use the Wiimote would suck.

By the way, since you don't want to play casual XBLA games, we could play Guilty Gear? I have enough classic controllers for that. Or Smash Bros, but the Wavebird is mine. Those are a little too hardcore, though, so we could play Mario Kart - I'm sure I have some spare Classics you can use there.
 

Gaborn

Member
Bastion said:
EDIT - I want you to repeat that to yourself several times.


But when the system is old tech with a control system I do not like, I would rather Nintendo would have just kept the Gamecube going. The Wii is a system I do not like for two major reasons:
1. Waggle control and the whole remote control design
2. lack of HD

So don't buy it? You're just showing that you can't handle another console being on top that you don't own.
 

Kagari

Crystal Bearer
The Take Out Bandit said:
I get the feeling most of the folks that want to play MGS4 already have a PS3; so it will just sell to the installed base. MGS4 will not shift hardware and I expect PS3 to be shamed yet again.

I think it will shift hardware because a lot of people were waiting for MGS4 to come out before buying a PS3. Even here on this forum, many people have expressed that.
 

Vyer

Member
Rhazer Fusion said:
I really don't think he is trolling. He is just saying, why would say, Microsoft want to invest millions or billions into a techically advanced next generation console when they might think it is more beneficial to them financially in creating a console with similar capabilities to their current generation with motion sensor controls? Coincidentally enough, there is a rumor that Microsoft has a motion controller in the works. I am pretty sure he is saying, not everyone wants to embrace motion controlled games and prefer traditional games and controls instead, that's all. I know HD games and traditional games are still there and will be around for a little while longer, but he is probably a tad concerned about the next generation, especially with the cost of development increasing on a weekly basis.

Why would they think that? Because of the current trend?

What trend, then, was Sony following when they decided to push so much into the PS3, forcing them to launch at 500/600 bucks? Exactly what successful console model were they following there?

Console makers are going to follow their own vision of what the system should be. Sony isn't Microsoft isn't Nintendo. They are well aware that what one guy could pull off the other one probably couldn't.

This vision that some of you have that Sony and Microsoft and whoever else is suddenly going to shut down all their R&D departments with mass layoffs and halt all tech progress everywhere is so laughable.

And no, controller changes don't have anything to do with it. They've been evolving since the beginning. I heard the same stuff when we went away from dpads, to more buttons, to sticks, to shoulder buttons to rumble to wireless, etc. etc.

It's the same old thing.

It's amazing to me that some of you guys (not directed at you Rhazor) act like scared 80-year old grandma's crying about technology when it comes to controllers.
 

Opiate

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Something just occurred to me, but if GTAIV 'only' sold 1 million on PS3 in April, the likes of Haze and yes, even MGS4, are going to disappoint a lot of people when the first month numbers come in.

MS was foolish to not drop the price in front of the game's release. Their little tit for tat games with Sony are causing them to lose sight of the big picture. There will be considerable fallout if the Wii passes the 360's install base in the US next month and they don't respond at all.

The premium should be on the better side of $250 this Christmas. Scratch that, it should be $199 or less 3 years after f'n launch, but I think $249 would do a lot to stem the bleeding.

It's obvious that the Arcade was a failed experiment.

I ask this question honestly: what, in your opinion, is "the big picture?"
 
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