Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]
- Thread starter Kobun Heat
- Start date
soul creator
Member
yeah, no one ever says "there's too many DVD's on netflix! Too many songs on iTunes! It's not like you're gonna watch or listen to them all!". People tend to look at those huge catalogs of previously released movies/songs as a plus, not a negative.
If you're managing brand new titles, sure, it makes sense to ration them out. But for revisiting a back catalog, I would say the "as much as possible to please every person" approach is better. Some people thought that would be one of the benefits of not drastically recoding the games, and sticking with straight emulation...you would get a huge catalog out of it, since (presumably) little work would be involved in getting them up, with a LOT of potential gain.
If you're managing brand new titles, sure, it makes sense to ration them out. But for revisiting a back catalog, I would say the "as much as possible to please every person" approach is better. Some people thought that would be one of the benefits of not drastically recoding the games, and sticking with straight emulation...you would get a huge catalog out of it, since (presumably) little work would be involved in getting them up, with a LOT of potential gain.
TheJesusFactor
Member
Just for comparison sake. PS3 will offer PS1 games for download at 6.99 to 10.99 in the US (from the Gafcast). I think that includes a lot more value than what VC is offering at their price point. Nintendo, do you want to lose the download content arena?
EphemeralDream
Member
Basically for the same reasons as ethelred. I would be lucky to buy 50 VC games in 5 years but the more choices I have the better. The benefit of VC is that despite the games not being enhanced, due to the minimal coding needed, they can put up so many of them. And if Nintendo carries the VC library into the next console cycle, then it could be one of the biggest achievements throughout the history of gaming.the androgyne said:
I usually stand by the "wait and see" frame of mind actually, but all I wanted for appeasement was one of those titles that I listed or something similar. A major game that hadn't resurfaced in a compilation or in a port, or some huge 3rd party game like a Chrono Trigger. Something to show how amazing it could be as a competitor to PSN, XBLA, or random compilations. I think the biggest classic title that XBLA got was either SFIIT or Doom II, both of which took awhile to come out but if VC had a CT at launch, that would make their competitor's equal project look much worse.SuperPac said:
Oh and so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not personally for the entire back catalog at launch way of thinking.
the androgyne
Member
If they keep up a consistent rate, they'll achieve their variety without blowing their load in one go. They stand to make more money and keep interest in it by making it something continually updated rather than having it quickly expired. This ties in with their concept for WiiConnect 24 where the system remains constantly fresh.
If those 30 games you want were in the first upload, would you buy em all straight away? If you did.. would you play them all straight away? And say you spent 30 days playing 1 day a game each, what would you do after that? Maybe you would be satisfied with that (i wouldn't, id' be bored with another 4 years of the console life cycle with nothing to look forward to). The sheer number of games they can theoretically put on VC, it is inevitable many will get overlooked, especially if the big games were there to overshadow crap like soccer (that will sell despite being shit). They simply want to give each and every game, regardless of quality, a chance to sell whatever it can. The only thing about current VC i can see that is temporary is their interface. Buggered if i'm going to navigate 100's of games 10 games/page at a time!
And soul creator - these aren't 3 minute songs that you download and forget about! I'm sure nintendo also want people to enjoy the games for a sufficient amount of time. Anyone who's got a modded xbox with every rom known to man will tell you - you'll only end up playing the games you know are good. You can't possibly argue that from nintendo's side, they would make more money by having them all up there at once. Those shit games WILL sell if there's nothing better, the amount sold in this thread is proof alone, and the guys here are supposed to be discerning!
If those 30 games you want were in the first upload, would you buy em all straight away? If you did.. would you play them all straight away? And say you spent 30 days playing 1 day a game each, what would you do after that? Maybe you would be satisfied with that (i wouldn't, id' be bored with another 4 years of the console life cycle with nothing to look forward to). The sheer number of games they can theoretically put on VC, it is inevitable many will get overlooked, especially if the big games were there to overshadow crap like soccer (that will sell despite being shit). They simply want to give each and every game, regardless of quality, a chance to sell whatever it can. The only thing about current VC i can see that is temporary is their interface. Buggered if i'm going to navigate 100's of games 10 games/page at a time!
And soul creator - these aren't 3 minute songs that you download and forget about! I'm sure nintendo also want people to enjoy the games for a sufficient amount of time. Anyone who's got a modded xbox with every rom known to man will tell you - you'll only end up playing the games you know are good. You can't possibly argue that from nintendo's side, they would make more money by having them all up there at once. Those shit games WILL sell if there's nothing better, the amount sold in this thread is proof alone, and the guys here are supposed to be discerning!
the androgyne said:
Look, I'm not saying the gradual approach is inherently wrong. There is merit to it. What I am saying, and what I will never be convinced otherwise, is that their numbers are seriously off.
In theory the approach is okay. But 14 titles at launch is not okay. 1-5 games added per week is not okay. That needs to be much, much higher. It's not that I want all of my 30 titles at launch, but they don't even have half of that at launch at all.
the androgyne
Member
ethelred said:
I think that at some point, they've obviously tried to take a guess at how many games the service will have at some theoretical end point - and spread them out evenly, thats all.
Hmm.TheJesusFactor said:
We'll see if the marketplace agrees with you, but I somehow doubt it. PS1 games (and, to be fair, N64 games) are eye-gougingly hideous even to GC/X-Box owners, never mind PS3 buyers--and a second never mind for the probable large percentage of them who will rate graphics of utmost importance. SNES, Genesis, and TG-16 hold up far better graphically today than PS1, and all have comparable pricing to the lowest end of that PS1 price range.
NES is a harder case to defend than the 16-bit systems, though, I'll grant that. Should have been $3.00 or something except for certain marquis titles; I forget who said it in another thread, but NES really did divide its games into classics or garbage wth little in-between.
My shopping list for VC this Saturday:
SNES:
* The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (Nintendo/Dec. 2): 900 points
* Super Castlevania IV (Konami/Dec. 2): 800 points
Nintendo 64:
* Super Mario 64 (Nintendo/Dec. 2): 1,000 points
SEGA Genesis:
* Gunstar Heroes (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
* Shadow Dancer (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
* Sonic the Hedgehog (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
* Ristar: The Shooting Star (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
TurboGrafx 16:
* Dungeon Explorer (Hudson/Dec. 2): 600 points
* New Adventure Island (Hudson/Dec. 2): 600 points
One 5000 point card down the drain and then some. Gulp.
SNES:
* The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past (Nintendo/Dec. 2): 900 points
* Super Castlevania IV (Konami/Dec. 2): 800 points
Nintendo 64:
* Super Mario 64 (Nintendo/Dec. 2): 1,000 points
SEGA Genesis:
* Gunstar Heroes (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
* Shadow Dancer (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
* Sonic the Hedgehog (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
* Ristar: The Shooting Star (SEGA/Dec. 2): 600 points
TurboGrafx 16:
* Dungeon Explorer (Hudson/Dec. 2): 600 points
* New Adventure Island (Hudson/Dec. 2): 600 points
One 5000 point card down the drain and then some. Gulp.
PkunkFury
Member
john tv said:
what?? not only does Japan get better selection and cheaper VC points, but you get your Sega games for 200 points cheaper as well? no fair, I will continue not supporting VC in the US until some of this is remedied...
yeah, right, I'm lucky I made it this long... next time I'm bored of all the launch games I bought I'll bend right over for those awful VC prices
Synth_floyd
Banned
Not to derail this or anything but if you're super desperate to play these old games you can always just download the ROMs.
One thing they need to fix is that damned 30 second loading to get to the store. Thats ridiculous. The whole interface should be cached from the system, and even the new content should be constantly streamed in the background so that loading is instantaneous. Not like the servers have much else to do right now.
Conrad Link
Member
I want New Adventure Island. 
Actually, Dragon's Curse AND the Adventure Island games please!
And that Pinball game, Devil's Crush or something.
Actually, Dragon's Curse AND the Adventure Island games please!
And that Pinball game, Devil's Crush or something.
Netrunner2k2
Member
JCX9 said:
I got that too, but I was able to get it. After the update it said, "The Wii system update is complete. Parental Controls are available. Please go to the Wii Options from the Wii Menu if you would like to customize Parental Controls."
I don't know if it was there before, but I never noticed a section in Parental Controls that lets you restrict the use of Wii Points on the Wii Shop Channel as well as the exchange of mail of other content over WiiConnect24, the Internet Channel, and the News Channel.
Not that I really gave it much of a look anyways.
Ah hell, I caved. I'm going to buy Super Star Soldier after I get off work today. I looked up some videos and even though I'm not a shooter fan, it seems fun. Plus I realized I should support at least a few of the Hudson releases, because Hudson is awesome. And it'll fill out my channel list, so whatever.
yeah guys.. 100 games a year is only 2 games a week, which they have delivered more than on average (2 last week, 3 this week). I DO agree that the widest variety of games will appeal to the most players, and I DO agree that 1-2 titles per week is, well, weak.. but I still can't agree that the answer is to release 100, 50, or even 10 games every week. if any of you were actually there for DVD, you would know thatthat ISN'T how catalog releases work, or even music on itunes or sacd/dvd-a. they still get rationed out at a relatively small rate compared to the total library. at the very least in terms of movies they still have to be transferred to a new format, and usually are held for release until the "right time". With VC you still have to test the emulation and I don't see why they would release any different. iTunes didn't start out with anywhere near a million songs for download. they got their over time.
I'm of the opinion that the Virtual Console in the US pretty much sucks right now for a strategic reason. Nintendo wants every Wii owner to invest in Wii games like Madden and Red Steel. Unleashing big hitters like Super Metroid and Mario 3 would detract from that. Hell, most gamers won't have time for anything other than Zelda and WiiSports as it is (a very nice mix of fun with casual/hardcore appeal).
But anyway, it's very important to Nintendo that 3rd party offerings sell well so they don't want to distract from that. Heck, the same could be said even for the Virtual Console. Other than a few first party N games (SNES stuff and Mario 64), the most captivating stuff has been from the Genesis and TurboGraphx camps. I feel that's for a marketing reason. Download Punchout or Soloman's Key? Well, if you can't choose what you initially want, maybe you'll try out Soloman's Key... Same can be said with Bonk's Adventure, Super Star Soldier, and the like (which if the other GAF thread is evidence, are highly purchased).
In my opinion, at this moment, Nintendo is actually HELPING the Virtual Console by keeping their own big games away from it for now, which draws attention to the less popular "curiousities" that are available, which will be essential in making the VC everything it can be library/content wise.
But anyway, it's very important to Nintendo that 3rd party offerings sell well so they don't want to distract from that. Heck, the same could be said even for the Virtual Console. Other than a few first party N games (SNES stuff and Mario 64), the most captivating stuff has been from the Genesis and TurboGraphx camps. I feel that's for a marketing reason. Download Punchout or Soloman's Key? Well, if you can't choose what you initially want, maybe you'll try out Soloman's Key... Same can be said with Bonk's Adventure, Super Star Soldier, and the like (which if the other GAF thread is evidence, are highly purchased).
In my opinion, at this moment, Nintendo is actually HELPING the Virtual Console by keeping their own big games away from it for now, which draws attention to the less popular "curiousities" that are available, which will be essential in making the VC everything it can be library/content wise.
brandonh83
Banned
When I get Castlevania IV all will be good. I swear, for me at least, that's like the perfect game: it's challenging, fun, has incredible atmosphere and music, and is highly beatable in one sitting.
My take on the VC drought is this ... Nintendo is dragging themselves into a hole not with their small selection but with their prices. iTunes was successful in providing a legal way to download because it was cheap and reasonable. 99 cents for a song? Perfect price point. People are less inclined to download illegally when the price is right and almost a nonissue. Nintendo on the other hand is charging $5, $8, $10 for games over a decade old. Down the road it is inevitable that with the SD cards, someone is going to find a way to illegally place ROMs onto the Wii, and the vast majority of VC purchasers (hardcore gamers) will flock to it. Nintendo should attempt to lower the price of more aged games or they will definitly find themselves with a problem not too much later into the Wii's life
Wrestlemania
Banned
Dr. Jade said:
The problem is that when you compare it to ITMS you suddenly realise that the price isn't so bad after all. 99 cents for a song that lasts a couple of minutes compared to $5 for an entire NES game? It's not really that bad, is it?
Christopher
BDE (Big Dad Energy)
Y2Kevbug11 said:Unless they literally flood in during those droughts, the forgotten titles will never see the light of day.
I just want one freaking game. Just one.
Which game?
I want a harddrive so I can keep ALL my games there without having to delete them, and I'm pretty sure the Forecast/News channels are going to take up a good amount of my blocks too.
Thespis721
Member
I WANT ALL THE VC GAMES NOW!!!
For now, I agree, let's comment on the games!
J/K. Chill out guys. It's been out for LESS THAN A MONTH. Bitch about it come June if the VC still sucks.
For now, I agree, let's comment on the games!
the androgyne
Member
Dr. Jade said:
I don't think you're right for the reason pointed out by Wrestlemania. But, regardless of what you think of the prices, 1, they're selling at that price, and 2, they have room to move downwards in the future. I'm sure from their perspective, they'd rather start at what they believe is the max price people would pay and move down from there as demand drops - they sure as hell wouldn't want to start low and increase the prices if they weren't making enough $$$.
Thespis721
Member
the androgyne said:
I agree. Agree. Agree. Agree. They are selling the games like video games. Games come out at $50 to start. I personally don't buy $50 games. But eventually after the hardcore gamers buy them up, they drop the price.
$20 GC games = $1 NES games FOR THE WIN!!!
Hurricane_Chris
DDK
john tv said:
Thanks. There's been too much talk of piracy and hinting at piracy in these threads lately.
Thespis721
Member
But you can't play games off the SD card... so really, the SD cards is only good for back up and to transfer the games to and fro from the console if you run out of space.
evilromero
Member
I hope Nintendo has a slick 20gig harddrive in the works. Something small that just plugs into the USB port and lets you directly access the VC games.
Thespis721
Member
Jiggy37 said:
If you're going to base the price point on such a relative base unit, then there is no way that anyone is going to agree upon NES price points.
A song = Minutes
NES games = Hour+ (depending on the game)
You can listen to a song once and no longer want to hear it just like you can play an NES game once and no longer want to play it. Relative terms affects relative shopping but cannot hold much weight in price points.
HeadsUpSevenUp
Member
Pellham said:
Well, how are we going to get Rondo of Blood? Compressed music?
evilromero
Member
And I doubt it'll be a huge issue. Compression has come a long way.borghe said:
Illuminati
Member
There is no difference. You can play NES games and be entertained by them over your lifetime just like songs.Jiggy37 said: