Official bitching about Hudson abandoning VC support. [VC/WiiWare = lost cause]

Go with Super Metroid, it's one of the best games ever and no other 2D game like it has touched many of the brilliant details within the game. It's one of the best games ever, it's one of the best games ever, it's one of the best games ever, it's one of the best games ever.

(also how can anyone hate sandbox gaming?)
 
Gah, I know this is overdone but...

What's the best shooter on the Virtual Console right now? I had a fun time going through R-Type III with a roommate last year and now I'm looking for something else that will kick my ass but will have us laughing the whole way through. Because I have R-Type III already, I'm looking for something vertically scrolling, like Soldier Blade or Super Star Soldier, which I hear were the best in that category... Or should I wait for Star Soldier on WiiWare?

Or should I just forget the vertical shooters and go with Lords of Thunder?

Also, what's the best of the Ninja Gaiden games? Is it II or III? Thanks.
 
Just waiting for Chrono Trigger. Thats all I want from the VC. I do want to see how they going to do WWE(F) No Mercy with the new updated wrestler.



Ninja Gaiden 2 is the best to me. I really didn't care for Gaiden 3 but shit that when I got a Super Nintendo by then.


And what is the hold up on Y's. Shit Those was classics.
 
Odrion said:
Go with Super Metroid, it's one of the best games ever and no other 2D game like it has touched many of the brilliant details within the game. It's one of the best games ever, it's one of the best games ever, it's one of the best games ever, it's one of the best games ever.

Yes, out of all of the games currently available on the VC, I'd probably recommend Super Metroid the most, assuming that you don't have access to it in some other form. I think on my personal top ten games of all time, Super Metroid is about third or fourth or something.

Odrion said:
(also how can anyone hate sandbox gaming?)

Easily, it bores me to tears. I simply don't find much entertainment value in wandering around a huge, open environment with no set goal. As far as I'm concerned, sandbox design is a lazy way out of designing well thought out, unique levels. I'd much rather play a game with a number of disparate, segregated, but distinct levels than a bunch of missions (many of which are annoying fetch-quests, in my experience) that all play out on a single world. If I want to play around with the physics of a game in an open world, I'll take Super Mario 64. Or I'll just do some sequence-breaking in Super Metroid. Besides, most sandbox games are 3D, and I prefer 2D over 3D by a fairly large margin.

There's also the fact that I despise the themes of most sandbox games, which usually revolve around crime and urban decay, but that's really more of a personal thing.

Edit:

Jammy said:
Or should I just forget the vertical shooters and go with Lords of Thunder?

I feel that Soldier Blade is the absolute best shooter on the VC. (Some will tell you Super Star Soldier is the best, but I prefer SB.) Still, Lords of Thunder is a spectacular game and you really should get both at some point.

If it matters, Soldier Blade is cheaper than Lords by 200 points.

Jammy said:
Also, what's the best of the Ninja Gaiden games? Is it II or III? Thanks.

Ninja Gaiden II is the best. Ninja Gaiden III is good, but the finite continues and even stupidly higher difficulty level makes it a hard sell.
 
Jiggy37 said:
I don't know; for some reason I never have too much trouble with what people claim to be really hard sidescrolling action games. It's just 2D shooters that get me.
But even if I found Monster Land impossible, I'd still want to buy it just to support the series. (And increase the miniscule chances of ever getting Monster World IV, slight as the increase might be.)

True. That said, Monster Land is utterly ruthless. You have an hourglass timer that takes away a heart's worth of health (or is it half a heart? I forget) whenever it runs out, a finite amount of money available from enemies for items and equips, a final labyrinth (which is recreated as the initial stage of the Dragon's Trap, which is the direct sequel) that requires an exact pathway to follow), and one life to do it all with.
 
Jammy said:
Will wait for 3 from what I gather.

Both Adventures of Lolo and Adventures of Lolo 2 are worth downloading, and I'm sure that it's safe to say that Adventures of Lolo 3 will also be worth it. In short, buy all three.
 
Jammy said:
Gah, I know this is overdone but...

What's the best shooter on the Virtual Console right now?

I personally favor Zanac, the NES vertical shooter. AI removes all memorization, it's fast, hard enough, and great soundtrack
 
Jammy said:
Will wait for 3 from what I gather.


You're making quite the mistake here. Lolo aren't all that different from one game to another one. Each sequel is just more puzzle + a couple of new ennemis. You're really missing out, no Lolo replaces another Lolo.
 
In fact, you're probably best off getting Lolo 1 at the very least. Lolo 2 has a very steep difficulty curve. While I don't know how Lolo 3's difficulty curve is, the first one has a very gradual pace that allows you to get used to the game and its mechanics. Lolo 2 more or less tosses you into the deep end after a couple of levels.
 
Lolo 1 is slightly better than 2 because of the difficulty curve, and would be a superb choice if top-down puzzle games are your thing. Will comment on other stuff tomorrow, or something.


Iam Canadian said:
Actraiser is great stuff, yes.

I'm probably worse than anyone else here at it, though. I've never gotten past the boss gauntlet at the end. >_>
Neither have I. :( The controls are so stiff that I'm too annoyed to get better.


Odrion said:
(also how can anyone hate sandbox gaming?)
I don't want to have to make my own rules; I want to be given a set of rules and then figure out how to master them.
Yes, I can see the quote of what I just replied to Canadian with coming as claimed evidence of a form of hypocrisy. :(
 
You don't have to make your own rules in sandbox games. You can stick to the storymode, you just have the option to do what you want. I loved getting a tank in GTA III, barricading myself against a wall, and then just firing over and over and knowing the cops could get me out. Too bad with the Xbox version they screwed up the camera controls in the tank (in the PS2 versions you could keep the camera facing forward while you turn the turret, in the Xbox versions the camera turns with the turret and that made it difficult to fire the turret behind you and pick up speed).
 
Jiggy37 said:
Yes, I can see the quote of what I just replied to Canadian with coming as claimed evidence of a form of hypocrisy. :(

Nah, some things just aren't worth mastering.

This is why I haven't played R-Type III in months.
 
TJ Spyke said:
You don't have to make your own rules in sandbox games. You can stick to the storymode, you just have the option to do what you want. I loved getting a tank in GTA III, barricading myself against a wall, and then just firing over and over and knowing the cops could get me out. Too bad with the Xbox version they screwed up the camera controls in the tank (in the PS2 versions you could keep the camera facing forward while you turn the turret, in the Xbox versions the camera turns with the turret and that made it difficult to fire the turret behind you and pick up speed).
Well, I wouldn't call GTA III a sandbox game, really, although a good number of casual players treat it as though it were. It has missions, at least.
Maybe what I mean is more that I hate sandbox elements.


Iam Canadian said:
Nah, some things just aren't worth mastering.
Yeah, I actually agree with this, but people who don't are likely to raise the objection.
 
Easily, it bores me to tears. I simply don't find much entertainment value in wandering around a huge, open environment with no set goal. As far as I'm concerned, sandbox design is a lazy way out of designing well thought out, unique levels. I'd much rather play a game with a number of disparate, segregated, but distinct levels than a bunch of missions (many of which are annoying fetch-quests, in my experience) that all play out on a single world. If I want to play around with the physics of a game in an open world, I'll take Super Mario 64. Or I'll just do some sequence-breaking in Super Metroid. Besides, most sandbox games are 3D, and I prefer 2D over 3D by a fairly large margin.
Those are all really good points, actually. But still I enjoy that choice or the numerous discoveries you can make. I'm actually pretty sad that gaming sort of scooted away from the whole "alternative pathways" that were in a lot of last-gen games. Splinter Cell Chaos theory did a really good job at having a well designed but unlinear levels.
 
Kirby 64™: The Crystal Shards: (Nintendo 64®, 1-4 players, Rated E for Everyone, 1,000 Wii Points): Kirby's first 3-D adventure is also his Nintendo 64 debut, and it finds the always-versatile hero battling a new enemy called Dark Matter. Dark Matter is after a distant land's powerful crystal, but a young fairy named Ribbon attempts to save it by escaping with the gem to Dream Land. Now the crystal has been broken, and it's scattered around the world. Take control of Kirby and help him journey across six worlds, battling a wide variety of enemies and challenging bosses, as he tries to collect all 100 pieces of the shattered crystal. Along the way, you'll use Kirby's trademark copying ability to use enemies' strengths against them. Not only that, but try combining any two abilities to create a brand-new one that is usually stronger than the original. Throw in three exciting multiplayer minigames, and you've got a package of which even King Dedede would be proud. Fans of Kirby and action games with bright, colorful graphics should vacuum this one up.

Psychosis: (TurboGrafx16, 1 player, Rated E for Everyone – Mild Fantasy Violence, 600 Wii Points): This is a side-scrolling shooter played in a world created from the mind of a twisted demon. Your soul has suddenly wandered into that evil world that exists in every person's heart. The only way out is to blast your way past the grotesque creatures that block your path in five "causes" (stages). You must face the dangers of this psychedelic world by making full use of three shot types and the satellite option. With power-ups, you can change your shots to a wide-coverage beam, a satellite-generated laser and more. Each shot type can be powered up to three levels. You can also block enemy fire by rotating the satellites to a desired position. How you use these features will be the key to successfully escaping this strange and surreal world.


beaten by jsnake's evil, but now it's official
 
I was a N64 owner and had a lot of games, but I cannot remember Kirby 64 at ALL. Is that a good thing?

I need to get a VC game to celebrate the ole birthday though. Hmm. Maybe Lords of Thunder since this week doesn't seem super awesome.
 
Kirby 64 is easily worth 1000 points. The system of combining enemy types works very well and the chaos of subsequent Kirby games is definitely subdued here. For people who couldn't enjoy the manic GBA games I would recommend Kirby 64.
 
Iam Canadian said:
In fact, you're probably best off getting Lolo 1 at the very least. Lolo 2 has a very steep difficulty curve. While I don't know how Lolo 3's difficulty curve is, the first one has a very gradual pace that allows you to get used to the game and its mechanics. Lolo 2 more or less tosses you into the deep end after a couple of levels.

Lolo3 is a step in difficulty over Lolo2 just like Lolo2 is over Lolo. Be prepared :P
 
Crushed said:
Kirby's first 3-D adventure is also his Nintendo 64 debut, and it finds the always-versatile hero battling a new enemy called Dark Matter.

Way to screw up the plot of a Kirby game, Nintendo PR guys.
 
Superblatt said:
I totally missed Kirby 64 -- so I'm curious to hear GAF's take on it. I imagine it doesn't touch the SNES or GBA games...

In short, no, no it doesn't.

You can read my comments on it here. Jiggy37 doesn't like the game either and you can read his take on it here. But in the interests of fairness, highspeeddub has a counterpoint.
 
Dolphin said:
So, any chance that Nintendo will end this reign of mediocre releases any time soon?

The quantity of games being released has been slowing down, yes, but the games have actually been of fairly good quality. I've already sang the praises of Lords of Thunder, of course, and we've also gotten Phantasy Star II and Adventures of Lolo 2 recently. There have also been games like 1080 Snowboarding which have their fans, though I'm not one of them. Granted, I can't say much for this week, but overall there's not much to complain about on the quality front.

Except for the lack of Earthbound, of course.
 
Calling these past few weeks mediocre is a bit much. While many of these games aren't top tier retro titles, there's still plenty of big names in there. Ninja Gaiden, Phantasy Star, 1080, Kirby, Harvest Moon, etc. Aren't these titles people have been looking forward to?

I'd say these are very much OK weeks. It would be impossible to have awesome game after awesome game and then keep some momentum going later on.
 
Dolphin said:
So, any chance that Nintendo will end this reign of mediocre releases any time soon?
The actual games since January begun have been excellent--or at the very least highly-desired, whether you in particular care for them much or not. Star Tropics, King of Fighters '94, Adventures of Lolo 2, Phantasy Star II, Lords of Thunder, 1080 Snowboarding, Harvest Moon, Super Street Fighter II, Ninja Gaiden III: these are all games that people like.


It's just that two games per week, or one game per week, sucks bad. Real bad. No getting around it, and no excusing it really; I certainly never have.




Edit:
Oh, hey, Lucas M. Thomas (IGN's go-to guy for VC reviews, and the only one of their writers who I really like) put up a review of Kirby 64 and gave it a 7.5 (as compared to the 9.5 he gave Kirby's Adventure). That's a little higher score than I'd give to either game, but he's basically spot-on in the text, aside from the parts where he says Kirby games are for kids. (Unless he means it in that "fun for all ages" sense that applies to a pretty sizable majority of sidescrollers.)

Quotes that I support in the fullest:
[...]Kirby 64 is the only game in the series to use [the mechanic of combining powers], and it seems[...] too simplistic[...] compared with[...] franchise installments[...] like Kirby Super Star. There are lots of different combos[...], so variety isn't a problem. The problem is versatility – each ability is a one-trick pony and very straightforward[...] The direction that Kirby's franchise took in every other edition, and into the Super Smash Bros. series, is totally different from the direction that Kirby 64 took.

[...]

Kirby 64 feels like it was designed to be as accessible to younger players as possible[...]Kirby walks and attacks more slowly and enemies aren't nearly as aggressive[...] Many mid-stage mini-bosses simply stand in one spot and block your path, for example, waiting patiently for you to attack and defeat them at your leisure.

[...]

Good, but not great. The game is still a[...] platforming experience[...] worth a look with its asking price of 1000 Wii Points – it's just not as versatile or as representative of the Kirby franchise as a whole as other games are, like Kirby's Adventure or Kirby Super Star. Kirby 64[...] will earn you a couple of afternoons of simple, casual and unchallenging gameplay and then will likely not get revisited[...]
 
Kirby 64 is easily my second favorite Kirby, despite the cake walk that it is. People who are claiming Kirby Adventure to be some sort of great undertaking designed for only the most savvy platform veteran (and thus better than this game) are a bit delusional though. :D
 
Dolphin said:
So, any chance that Nintendo will end this reign of mediocre releases any time soon?

Phantasy Star II is most definitely not mediocre. It was a landmark, genre-defining RPG.

Jiggy37 said:
I haven't seen anyone claim that Kirby's Adventure is a great undertaking, or designed for platforming veterans.

It's called a strawman.
 
morningbus said:
... you know what you did.

Anyway, what to expect from Sin & Punishment: a crazy, crazily fantastic game.

I played through the game on a classic controller, but button assignments are configurable, I believe. If I remember correctly, using the GC controller makes doing a certain move a bit harder, but not impossible.

I'd recommend doing your first playthrough on easy, then going back for the harder modes. Even when on easy the game kicked my ass hard in a few spots.

Also, make sure to love every damn second of the final boss. Best final boss ever.

You weren't kidding about playing it on easy... I got gameover screen on the first "Big" Boss
the one Saki becomes a robot or somenthin
.

Still ,it's the kind of game that you can see yourself improving after playing it for a while. The GCN controller is ok but moving using the X and Y buttons were kinda awkward at first.

My next purchase is almost Lord of Thunders... but I'm still worried about the difficulty... :(
 
Kirby games have never been difficult. They're just great fun to play. Heck, if I remember correctly, the first Kirby's Dream Land was explicitly designed as a game that anyone could beat.

The only challenging parts in a Kirby game I can think of offhand are the Extra Mode in Kirby's Dream Land and the boss rushes in most subsequent Kirby games. Although the boss rush in Squeak Squad was kind of broken since you could bring a ton of different abilities at once and Tornado demolishes every boss anyway.
 
Baiano19 said:
You weren't kidding about playing it on easy... I got gameover screen on the first "Big" Boss
the one Saki becomes a robot or somenthin
.

Still ,it's the kind of game that you can see yourself improving after playing it for a while. The GCN controller is ok but moving using the X and Y buttons were kinda awkward at first.

My next purchase is almost Lord of Thunders... but I'm still worried about the difficulty... :(

Definitely keep at it. That boss was my first major hurdle in the game, where I was stuck on it for nearly half the day. I'd go back, die, stop playing again, go back, die, stop playing, but eventually something just clicked and I did it. After that, there are only a few tough spots while playing on easy. Make sure to mess around in the options menu if the X/Y thing doesn't feel good, I believe you can change some of that stuff.

While I really enjoy Sin & Punishment, it is just one of those games that I can never see myself getting insanely good at or, at least, never good enough to get like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=lqt-io47zUQ (only watch that if you're past 2-2
the plane/naval battle
).
 
Baiano19 said:
My next purchase is almost Lord of Thunders... but I'm still worried about the difficulty... :(

Lords isn't that bad at all. I mean, overall I'm pretty terrible at shooters, but your character's health bar, combined with the power-ups you can purchase, makes Lords a pretty fair experience.

The final level has way too many sharp and pointy objects, though. >_<
 
The biggest tragedy of the VC is Zombies Ate My Neighbours. It was rated on the ESRB site an eternity ago and subsequently disappeared. I want to know who was responsible for that.

Zombies is one of the best co-op games on the SNES that doesn't have "Kirby" in the title. :(
 
Iam Canadian said:
Kirby games have never been difficult. They're just great fun to play. Heck, if I remember correctly, the first Kirby's Dream Land was explicitly designed as a game that anyone could beat.

The only challenging parts in a Kirby game I can think of offhand are the Extra Mode in Kirby's Dream Land and the boss rushes in most subsequent Kirby games. Although the boss rush in Squeak Squad was kind of broken since you could bring a ton of different abilities at once and Tornado demolishes every boss anyway.

Extra mode with 1HP max (set in the special options menu) in Kirby 1... sure you get infinite continues at the beginning of the level you're at, but even so, yeah, it's hard. Even with full HP Extra mode is an honest challenge.

Of course in normal you can beat the game in like an hour (or less?) with no trouble at all, but hard mode is different...

Though, finding some of the crystal shards in Kirby 2 and Kirby 64 was annoying too. Particularly 64, which had so many of them... and it was irritating how they often required powers from other levels, so you'd have to get one specific combination, finish that level, then go to the other level and use the power there. Kind of tedious, and frustrating if you lose the power before where you need to use it.

Even so, I love the Kirby games, and paricularly the older ones. Kirby 2's the best one, but all of the original GB Kirby games were great... Kirby's Pinball, Kirby 1, Kirby 2, Kirby's Block Ball... all great games. (The NES and SNES games were good too, but I didn't have them back then). I also loved Tilt n Tumble, though it was really easy (even in the hard mode you unlock by beating it in normal). Kirby 64 and Kirby Air Ride just weren't as good, sadly... but even so, I like the series. Canvass Curse shows that Kirby games can still be great, too. They aren't hard (though yeah, the boss rush modes are much more difficult), but they are fun, and that's what really counts...

Anyway, Kirby 64... I'd be tempted to rank even Yoshi's Story higher, though they're probably about even overall in both being decent-but-far-from-being-as-great-as-Nintendo-sidescroller-should-be games. I guess Kirby 64's the better of the two, but it's also probably the worst of the Kirby sidescrollers that I've played... though I did love Hundred Yard Hop, particularly in multiplayer mode. I'd be tempted to call that the best part of the game, almost... :D

Iam Canadian said:
The biggest tragedy of the VC is Zombies Ate My Neighbours. It was rated on the ESRB site an eternity ago and subsequently disappeared. I want to know who was responsible for that.

Zombies is one of the best co-op games on the SNES that doesn't have "Kirby" in the title. :(

The same thing is true about the SNES and Genesis Turrican games... rated but never released. :(
 
A Black Falcon said:
Of course in normal you can beat the game in like an hour (or less?) with no trouble at all, but hard mode is different...

An hour? Try twenty minutes. :P

A Black Falcon said:
Though, finding some of the crystal shards in Kirby 2 and Kirby 64 was annoying too. Particularly 64, which had so many of them... and it was irritating how they often required powers from other levels, so you'd have to get one specific combination, finish that level, then go to the other level and use the power there. Kind of tedious, and frustrating if you lose the power before where you need to use it.=

This is all true. While I do primarily see Kirby games as a method of unleashing a few dozen means of destruction upon some cute enemies, I also appreciate the ability puzzles that some of the games tried to implement. However, while Great Cave Offensive and Kirby's Adventure had good puzzles, Kirby 64...didn't. At all.


A Black Falcon said:
Anyway, Kirby 64... I'd be tempted to rank even Yoshi's Story higher, though they're probably about even overall in both being decent-but-far-from-being-as-great-as-Nintendo-sidescroller-should-be games. I guess Kirby 64's the better of the two, but it's also probably the worst of the Kirby sidescrollers that I've played... though I did love Hundred Yard Hop, particularly in multiplayer mode. I'd be tempted to call that the best part of the game, almost... :D

I'd take Kirby 64 over Yoshi's Story anyday, but you're definitely right about Hundred Yard Hop. I had some great multiplayer times with that little minigame. :D

A Black Falcon said:
The same thing is true about the SNES and Genesis Turrican games... rated but never released. :(

Almost forgot about Turrican. I really want to try those games, too. :(
 
OFLC update: Forgotten Worlds. Could be either C64, MD or TGCD, but I'm going with MD since Capcom is listed as publisher and they haven't put up any TG games yet, I think.
 
I forget which of the Kirby 64 minigames were named what, but I found all three highly enjoyable; the minigames were the best part of that title by far, especially the fruit basket one and the one where you run around rows of tiles and destroy others' paths. Incidentally, the minigames being the best part of that title by far is the only way in which I would ever find a Kirby game comparable to Fi--wait, no, I'd probably be better off not finishing that sentence.


Iam Canadian said:
While I do primarily see Kirby games as a method of unleashing a few dozen means of destruction upon some cute enemies
Yeah, I kind of consider them akin to the 3D Grand Theft Autos, when those games are played by the types of people who use every cheat right away and go to cause havoc. And this is the only way in which I would ever find a Kirby game comparable to GTA.
 
Jiggy37 said:
I forget which of the Kirby 64 minigames were named what, but I found all three highly enjoyable; the minigames were the best part of that title by far, especially the fruit basket one and the one where you run around rows of tiles and destroy others' paths. Incidentally, the minigames being the best part of that title by far is the only way in which I would ever find a Kirby game comparable to Fi--wait, no, I'd probably be better off not finishing that sentence.

:lol

Seriously, Kirby 64 is one of the few games where I had more fun with the included minigames than the main quest. I enjoyed them moreso any number of DS and Wii games with shoehorned in minigames as well as pretty much every subsequent Kirby game that had minigames.

Jiggy37 said:
Yeah, I kind of consider them akin to the 3D Grand Theft Autos, when those games are played by the types of people who use every cheat right away and go to cause havoc. And this is the only way in which I would ever find a Kirby game comparable to GTA.

You know, I would never have considered comparing Kirby to Grand Theft Auto, but that's not really much of a stretch. Of course, the difference is that the people playing GTA with cheats and wreaking havoc aren't advancing in the game at all, while in Kirby, at least you're moving forward, beating levels, and defeating bosses.

Also, I actually find Kirby entertaining.
 
Remake SM64 with the SMG Engine = Win. Too bad it won't happen :(

They should've added a save feature in StarFox 64. Not that it's a long game, but still...
 
Kibbles said:
They should've added a save feature in StarFox 64. Not that it's a long game, but still...

I'd like to see that myself. I mean, I don't always have the time to play through the game in one sitting.

Another feature that would have been nice is a level select. I mean, if I want to try to beat my best Area 6 score or something, it's annoying to have to play through five levels beforehand. This goes double for Zoness, since getting there involves playing through Aquas, which is a level I hate with the fiery passion of a thousand suns.
 
Japan got Do Re Mi Fantasy today as well (It wasn't listed for today's update before, and was the only game left with just "February", but they decided to release it as well).

I predict Hanabi Festival 2 in Europe next month because of this (The first came right after Japan got S&P).
 
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