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[dasein]

so, who won?

It's a tie. I'm not letting unconscious gender bias control me.

 

[topsyturvy]

when Obama started destroying, obviously.

thats not telling me when it started, the only question obama came out the clear winner was the iraq question.

 

[Incognito]

The Iraq portion of the debate was a turning point, imo. Obama wiped the floor with her on that issue and the fact that come general election time, the Democrats need to offer a clear and distinct contrast against the Republican nominee.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I missed the last 20 minutes but from what I saw, Hillary cleaned house. But I don't want to sound hyperbolic; it's not like Obama lost bad enough to effect him negatively. I just don't think he helped himself that much. It was the same stuttering Obama, in direct contrast to Hillary who was calm and in control

 

[alr1ght]

yep, right when they started on Iraq.

 

[Manmademan]

I'd say after they went to break after Hilary gave the "it might take another Clinton to clean up this Bush" line.

The guy who does her bikini wax is named clinton too?

I missed the last 20 minutes but from what I saw, Hillary cleaned house. But I don't want to sound hyperbolic; it's not like Obama lost bad enough to effect him negatively. I just don't think he helped himself that much. It was the same stuttering Obama, in direct contrast to Hillary who was calm and in control

You missed a lot. Hillary got Slaughtered on the Iraq question, and Wolf called her out on it. Not pretty. 1st half? clinton. Second? obama.

though you could argue that by not doing REALLY well, Clinton isn't doing a lot to slow down Obama's momentum or appeal with former edwards supporters.

 

[inner-G]

when did the second half start?

7 eastern.

 

[Piper Az]

The big guys in the party will pressure them together too! That ticket is potentially fucking out of this world.

That's a pretty stupid argument. I've met numerous life-long democrats who think Hillary will hurt the party's chances in general election thanks to her polarization that galvanizes the Republican party base.

Democrats need to start "falling in line" not "falling in love"

 

[sangreal]

So..... how does Obama give his face such a "smooth" shave?

http://www.youtube.com/user/mantic59

 

[Kusagari]

I disagree. Obama's appeal is based around the impression that he's bringing change to washington. He doesn't NEED hillary on the ticket to gain ground with moderate republicans and independents- he already has them in droves.

Hillary on the other hand DOES need barack's appeal against someone like mccain.

Yeah, I agree with this. If Hillary wants any chance against McCain, she NEEDS Obama. It's the only way she'll win the independents and Republicans who hate McCain.

 

[Tamanon]

correct answer.

then again, Obama has an awful lot of ex-Clinton advisers on his team.

To be fair, it's pretty tough to avoid that since he was the last Democrat. So to find a qualified adviser, you pretty much HAVE to nab some Clintonians.

 

[scorcho]

To be fair, it's pretty tough to avoid that since he was the last Democrat. So to find a qualified adviser, you pretty much HAVE to nab some Clintonians.

i agree with that, but as APF has been very quick to point out, who he has chosen has left a lot to be desired.

 

[harSon]

I missed the last 20 minutes but from what I saw, Hillary cleaned house. But I don't want to sound hyperbolic; it's not like Obama lost bad enough to effect him negatively. I just don't think he helped himself that much. It was the same stuttering Obama, in direct contrast to Hillary who was calm and in control

So basically you missed the turning point of the debate?

 

[inner-G]

oooh, Olberman and Pat Robertson debate breakdown on MSNBC

 

[PhoenixDark]

So basically you missed the turning point of the debate?

I'm convenient like that. But seriously, what was the turning point

 

[sangreal]

I wish FIOS had MSNBC so I could watch some better post-debate coverage

 

[Tamanon]

oooh, Olberman and Pat Robertson debate breakdown on MSNBC

Er....I think that's Pat Buchanan

 

[topsyturvy]

That's a pretty stupid argument. I've met numerous life-long democrats who think Hillary will hurt the party's chances in general election thanks to her polarization that galvanizes the Republican party base.

Democrats need to start "falling in line" not "falling in love"

if obama is on that ticket your argument fails.

 

[Piper Az]

So basically you missed the turning point of the debate?

No, he just blocked it out from his memory.

if obama is on that ticket your argument fails.

Obama helps Hillary but she hurts him.

 

[giga]

I'm convenient like that. But seriously, what was the turning point

Iraq.

 

[harSon]

I'm convenient like that. But seriously, what was the turning point

The portion you missed :lol Basically everything related to Iraq.

 

[inner-G]

Er....I think that's Pat Buchanan

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

owned

 

[topsyturvy]

The portion you missed :lol Basically everything related to Iraq.

the last 20 minutes out of 90 minutes isn't a win in a debate. :/

 

[soul creator]

brandy will go with whoever ted kennedy supports

see what I did there?

 

[topsyturvy]

brandy will go with whoever ted kennedy supports

see what I did there?

i laughed. :lol

 

[Particle Physicist]

ooh lets find out what celebrities think!!!!


:/

 

[Amused_To_Death]

i'm not heavy into politics but I am a democrat....my question is if someone can summarize veeery briefly...what is Mccain's appeal? ....I mean, he seems to be doing rather well thus far

This was Hillary vs. Obama, what does that have to do with McCain?

But to answer your question, the republicans are tired of the conservatives hijacking the party and that's why you saw Ron Paul get a lot of support and that's why McCain, who's considered a liberal republican is surging in the polls!

 

[Tamanon]

So, maybe I'm forgetting some minor bit, but how was the C-span bit a swipe about Bill Clinton?

 

[harSon]

the last 20 minutes out of 90 minutes isn't a win in a debate. :/

There was no clear winner IMO during the first portion of the debate. Hillary did nothing in the first 60 or so minutes to overcome her late debate blunder.

 

[zou]

the last 20 minutes out of 90 minutes isn't a win in a debate. :/

Except people are dumb and don't walk away from this thinking "Well the first hour or so Hillary did good, but then Obama took over", it's proven that people will rather remember the later stuff, which benefits Obama and how people perceive the debate's outcome.

 

[avaya]

That's a pretty stupid argument. I've met numerous life-long democrats who think Hillary will hurt the party's chances in general election thanks to her polarization that galvanizes the Republican party base.

Democrats need to start "falling in line" not "falling in love"

That ticket will energise the Democratic party like no other.

It really is about turnout for the Democrats. They can make their people fall in love with the party. They have the GOP beat handily if they can get their voters out. It would be epic. The FL primary is the clearest indication of it, no delegates yet only ~150k votes behind the GOP total.

It also has the chance to change the landscape of American politics for a very long time, finally getting you out of the conservative rut you've been in since the 1970s.

I'm not the only one to think of it. The question got the biggest reception in the debate tonight. I've seen more and more analysts propose the ticket too.

 

[Incognito]

So, maybe I'm forgetting some minor bit, but how was the C-span bit a swipe about Bill Clinton?

basically the details of the clinton's health care policy was formulated in secret and behind closed doors. fwiw, i was only 9 at the time so maybe someone a bit older can expound upon the subject?

 

[Instigator]

Except people are dumb and don't walk away from this thinking "Well the first hour or so Hillary did good, but then Obama took over", it's proven that people will rather remember the later stuff, which benefits Obama and how people perceive the debate's outcome.

Unless they got bored early and started zapping.

 

[topsyturvy]

So, maybe I'm forgetting some minor bit, but how was the C-span bit a swipe about Bill Clinton?

wolf tried to say that was against hillary on the count that she worked behind closed doors with her health care program in the 90s. So basically, wolf tried to start shit.

 

[AmishNazi]

n.m

 

[Akia]

Great debate. I can't wait to see what happens this Tuesday.

 

[zou]

So, maybe I'm forgetting some minor bit, but how was the C-span bit a swipe about Bill Clinton?

It was directed at Hillary and her Health reform talks, which happened behind closed doors.

 

[AgentOtaku]

This was Hillary vs. Obama, what does that have to do with McCain?

But to answer your question, the republicans are tired of the conservatives hijacking the party and that's why you saw Ron Paul get a lot of support and that's why McCain, who's considered a liberal republican is surging in the polls!

ah...thanks

I didn't mean to derail or anything

for me personally....I really can't see myself reenlisting if Obama or Clinton doesn't win =/

 

[topsyturvy]

There was no clear winner IMO during the first portion of the debate. Hillary did nothing in the first 60 or so minutes to overcome her late debate blunder.

I thought she cleared some stuff up in the first 60 minutes, but i guess nobody gonna change there minds on the candidates. Obviously. :/

 

[teruterubozu]

Yeah, Obama may have sounded better regarding Iraq, but honestly it's such a non-divisive issue for Democrats.
It was basically "yeah I agree w/what she said" and "yeah I agree w/what he said".

 

[Manmademan]

This was Hillary vs. Obama, what does that have to do with McCain?

But to answer your question, the republicans are tired of the conservatives hijacking the party and that's why you saw Ron Paul get a lot of support and that's why McCain, who's considered a liberal republican is surging in the polls!

I don't think it's quite that simple. Ron Paul's support has always been anemic, outside of internet message boards. "a lot" of support is really stretching it.

What we saw here was the republican party gear up to present Rudy Giuliani as their candidate to take on hillary (who was assumed to get the Dem nod), and once it became really obvious that 9/11 fearmongering doesn't work anymore and his campaign started to implode, there really wasn't anyone viable to step up.

you were left with fringe candidates without strong appeal. Romney's actual record is completely different than what he's claiming to support now in his run for president. That's not exactly inspiring confidence.

Huckabee is a nutcase who appeals VERY strongly to religious conservatives and no one else.

Ron Paul is LOL

McCain was really the best of what's left, and once that became clear (when the media stopped drinking the huckabee coolaid) the party regulars lined up behind him to back him. He's not perfect, but he doesn't bleed incompetence or fraud like everyone else. There's one thing that can be said for republicans..group thought and solidarity is very big there.

 

[greatestjediever]

Who fucking started this "Day One" meme? It's fucking annoying. Those two need to pick up a thesaurus and come up with another phrase

Spoiler

on Day One

 

[topsyturvy]

Who fucking started this "Day One" meme? It's fucking annoying. Those two need to pick up a thesaurus and come up with another phrase

Spoiler

on Day One

obama started it.

 

[Piper Az]

That ticket will energise the Democratic party like no other.

It really is about turnout for the Democrats. They can make their people fall in love with the party. They have the GOP beat handily if they can get their voters out. It would be epic. The FL primary is the clearest indication of it, no delegates yet only ~150k votes behind the GOP total.

It also has the chance to change the landscape of American politics for a very long time, finally getting you out of the conservative rut you've been in since the 1970s.

I'm not the only one to think of it. The question got the biggest reception in the debate tonight. I've seen more and more analysts propose the ticket too.

The party is already energized. The turnouts at primaries already indicate that. By "falling in line" every democrats need to turnout whoever the nominee will be; democrats are notrorious for not doing that though if they don't like the party's nominee. On the other hand, the repulicans who hate McCain will still turnout in full force to vote for him just to win - that's the type of mentality that Democrats need to develop. But sadly, I know democrats who are planning on not voting or voting for "moderate" McCain if Hillary wins the nomination. Sad reality.

 

[Grecco]

Hilary looked so much better than Obama did in this debate.

But winning debates are pointless.

 

[topsyturvy]

The party is already energized. The turnouts at primaries already indicate that. By "falling in line" every democrats need to turnout whoever the nominee will be; democrats are notrorious for not doing that though if they don't like the party's nominee. On the other hand, the repulicans who hate McCain will still turnout in full force to vote for him just to win - that's the type of mentality that Democrats need to develop. But sadly, I know democrats who are planning on not voting or voting for "moderate" McCain if Hillary wins the nomination. Sad reality.

most are here on gaf.

 

[avaya]

The party is already energized. The turnouts at primaries already indicate that. By "falling in line" every democrats need to turnout whoever the nominee will be; democrats are notrorious for not doing that though if they don't like the party's nominee. On the other hand, the repulicans who hate McCain will still turnout in full force to vote for him just to win - that's the type of mentality that Democrats need to develop. But sadly, I know democrats who are planning on not voting or voting for "moderate" McCain if Hillary wins the nomination. Sad reality.

There is a split though, those for Hillary and those for Obama. Those two together is what's causing these turnouts. The ticket has the ability to appeal to all sections of the party.

 

[jak stat]

Who fucking started this "Day One" meme? It's fucking annoying. Those two need to pick up a thesaurus and come up with another phrase

Spoiler

on Day One

Hillary started it with the "ready on day one" phrase. This was to emphasize her "experience". Obama has recently been turning the phrase back on her.

 

[Piper Az]

There is a split though, those for Hillary and those for Obama. Those two together is what's causing these turnouts. The ticket has the ability to appeal to all sections of the party.

That's why democrats need to vote for the party's nominee even if they have to hold their noses while doing it. Obama would be a great veep candidate for Hillary, but it doesn't work the other way around.

 

[Kintaco]

most are here on gaf.

Well if it's like the gaming side, GAF is not representative of the real wold thankfully. I will gladly support either of these two candidate, and I'm registered Republican although I plan on changing that soon. I think they both had a good showing tonight.