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[APF]

Hillary being "cold" or whatever is yet another right-wing talking-point that's been coopted by the neuvo-Clinton-haters on the left; most people I've heard from (in the press / in person) who have actually met her say she comes across as quite warm, which may be a surprise to those who let media caricatures dictate their perceptions.

Although if you want to listen to that media engine:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/27/AR2008012702160.html


edit: good thing I didn't say the war was "meaningless;" you did.

 

[topsyturvy]

Theres no doubt that the economy is the most worried about issue in America right now but to call the War in Iraq a meaningless issue is pretty fucking idiotic.

APF didn't call the war meaningless though, you just put words in his mouth.

 

[Mandark]

scorcho, call your office

I missed the whole thing. What was the foreign policy talk like? I keep having nightmares of the Democrats crumbling in the face of Republicans saying the surge is working, and backing off the need to withdraw.

 

[harSon]

Hillary being "cold" or whatever is yet another right-wing talking-point that's been coopted by the neuvo-Clinton-haters on the left; most people I've heard from (in the press / in person) who have actually met her say she comes across as quite warm, which may be a surprise to those who let media caricatures dictate their perceptions.

Although if you want to listen to that media engine:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/27/AR2008012702160.html


edit: good thing I didn't say the war was "meaningless;" you did.

Shes been cold and robotic for years, she didn't change her overall character until it became an actual problem. Much like a lot of things involving her.

You said Obama's opposition to the war is 'meaningless', I guess we can't have anything tainting Queen Billarys perfected political record right?

 

[APF]

Shes been cold and robotic for years, she didn't change her overall character until it became an actual problem. Much like a lot of things involving her.

Oh? When did you meet her?

 

[Cooter]

I always thought you were a libertarian APF? What do you think about Hillary's stance on the economy and her idea for universal health care?

 

[topsyturvy]

Shes been cold and robotic for years, she didn't change her overall character until it became an actual problem. Much like a lot of things involving her.

You said Obama's opposition to the war is 'meaningless', I guess we can't have anything tainting Queen Billarys perfected political record right?

Cold and robotic for years? what the?

 

[APF]

I always thought you were a libertarian APF? What do you think about Hillary's stance on the economy and her idea for universal health care?

I'm a left-leaning centrist, but I have a soft spot for some libertarian views (even if I don't necessarily agree with their wholesale implementation). As I've said before, while I don't agree with everything she says, I think she's the more qualified candidate.

 

[Cooter]

I'm a left-leaning centrist, but I have a soft spot for some libertarian views (even if I don't necessarily agree with their wholesale implementation)

Hmm. I see why Hillary's your pick then. Funny how I can be so off after reading your posts for years.

 

[topsyturvy]

I always thought you were a libertarian APF? What do you think about Hillary's stance on the economy and her idea for universal health care?

I like how people questions their candidates stances as if they're ignorant for rooting and voting for them. Its called PREFER.

 

[Particle Physicist]

she comes off poise in the debates and she doesn't say um and uh like others.


Have you guys saw the polls lately? the war isn't a top issue like the economy.

the war isnt the top issue.. but its a priority right after the economy. to call is 'not a big issue' is pretty foolish. especially when it affects our economy.

 

[quest]

This debate just cemented my fears over this election. The choices are going to be either a tax and spend liberal or a extremely moderate rebulican. Either way it is going to be 4 years of new taxes and bigger government. The only reason I would vote McCain would be for a stronger defense. Both dems are just way way way to the left on all issues. I am fiscally conservative and socially moderate. No canidate left is even close to that.

 

[Matt]

Shes been cold and robotic for years, she didn't change her overall character until it became an actual problem. Much like a lot of things involving her.

The Clintons actually live in my town, so me and my family have meet them many times, and she has never come across as anything but very nice and perfectly warm.

 

[harSon]

Oh? When did you meet her?

I haven't met her personally nor have you. She has come off as a cold robotic politician for years and the beginning of this campaign as well as people both close to her and not have confirmed it. The fact that everyone was shell-shocked when she shed tears is pretty revealing.

 

[Hitokage]

People said Gore was a robot too.

 

[v1cious]

Hillary being "cold" or whatever is yet another right-wing talking-point that's been coopted by the neuvo-Clinton-haters on the left; most people I've heard from (in the press / in person) who have actually met her say she comes across as quite warm, which may be a surprise to those who let media caricatures dictate their perceptions.

like Bill?:lol

 

[harSon]

People said Gore was a robot too.

And?

 

[CoolTrick]

The Clintons actually live in my town, so me and my family have meet them many times, and she has never come across as anything but very nice and perfectly warm.

Thank you.

Obama fanatics don't want to think for a moment that Hillary is a dynamic person and that she isn't perfectly nice and warm when her political tough face isn't out.

It wouldn't surprise me if Barack was the more reserved, less warm person to have a conversation with, actually. He doesn't seem like the "cheery" sort, whereas you can tell Clinton has that side of her when she laughs.

 

[Particle Physicist]

Thank you.

Obama fanatics don't want to think for a moment that Hillary is a dynamic person and that she isn't perfectly nice and warm when her political tough face isn't out.

superficial meetings dont really mean much, when your public image is the opposite. but thats besides the point. the only reason this really matters is because there is a large percentage of voters that foolishly vote on shallow and unrelated matters.

like the muuslim e-mail thingy.

 

[harSon]

Thank you.

Obama fanatics don't want to think for a moment that Hillary is a dynamic person and that she isn't perfectly nice and warm when her political tough face isn't out.

It wouldn't surprise me if Barack was the more reserved, less warm person to have a conversation with, actually. He doesn't seem like the "cheery" sort, whereas you can tell Clinton has that side of her when she laughs.

Compare her earlier campaigning and debating to her more recent ones, it's an act.

I have no issues with admitting Obama's faults... Hes a bit inexperienced, not a great debater, has issues with his speech during normal conversations (Debates), etc... Why can't you guys admit Hillary has faults, you constantly deny everything :lol

 

[topsyturvy]

Thank you.

Obama fanatics don't want to think for a moment that Hillary is a dynamic person and that she isn't perfectly nice and warm when her political tough face isn't out.

It wouldn't surprise me if Barack was the more reserved, less warm person to have a conversation with, actually. He doesn't seem like the "cheery" sort, whereas you can tell Clinton has that side of her when she laughs.

exactly, it boggles my mind that they are trying to pin this robot shtick to her, It doesn't even make sense. I can't think one time that i didn't see her smile or laugh at a politcal venue before her run for president. Even sometimes on c-span or newspaper pics i didn't see her not smile. robot my ass.

Compare her earlier campaigning and debating to her more recent ones, it's an act.

I have no issues with admitting Obama's faults... Hes a bit inexperienced, not a great debater, has issues with his speech during normal conversations (Debates), etc... Why can't you guys admit Hillary has faults, you constantly deny everything :lol

but you're not pointing out faults, you're calling her a robot behind the scenes, I mean seriously, how else did she act before this? Bill threw in another pair of batteries or something?

 

[CoolTrick]

To write Hillary's schtik off as an "act" is making this issue a black and white issue when true intentions and emotions can't be separated like that.

She's clearly a dynamic woman who's is very politically conscious. But to suggest that every ounce of emotion she shows that would actually suggest she is warm and nice is fake and an act is one of the most partial things ever said about Clinton. The things being said about that New Hampshire interview was downright embarrassing for this forum, and that's a bar that's set pretty damn low.

The irony of ironies is that she probably has tons MORE personality than Obama. It's just evident in how forceful her will is.

Why can't you guys admit Hillary has faults, you constantly deny everything

Are you KIDDING me?

The OBAMA people telling the one or two Clinton people here that THEY deny everything?

A reality check is needed.

 

[Particle Physicist]

A reality check is needed.

:lol

 

[scorcho]

I missed the whole thing. What was the foreign policy talk like? I keep having nightmares of the Democrats crumbling in the face of Republicans saying the surge is working, and backing off the need to withdraw.

neither capitulated on a policy of phased withdrawal, nor did they argue against the narrative that Blitzer advanced (that the surge is working). it was simultaenously heartening and maddening.

on Iraq and terrorism-at-large i think Obama had a more nuanced and (at least to me) agreeable answer than Hillary, who really appeared to stumble on both explaining her previous votes and her direction going forward. he also said he'd refocus US interests on relations with Latin America (they still exist?), Africa and China, sans the fear mongering heard in the GOP debate.

 

[Mandark]

That's good to hear. There was a period where "US wants to spend regional diplomatic visit/conference focusing on terror; everyone else has other priorities" was a stock story. All part of the general indifference of the administration towards outside perspectives.

I think foreign policy is the area where the public is most willing to be led by the elites, since most people don't have a direct interest at stake. Except when they feel their lives are in danger from Foreign Peril X.

A saner future probably depends (in part) on our national leaders talking the American people down from the ledge. Hopefully a reasonable Democrat beats a warmongering Republican and everyone on the left forgets about triangulating national security issues for a decade.

 

[syllogism]

Good news Hillary fans, Ann Coulter will campaign for Hillary if McCain is the GOP candidate

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vwnYzjPtMc8

 

[avaya]

Good news Hillary fans, Ann Coulter will campaign for Hillary if McCain is the GOP candidate

http://youtube.com/watch?v=vwnYzjPtMc8

Just watched the Hannity and Colmes episode. That was surreal. There seems to be real visceral hatred towards McCain.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Hillary isn't robotic per se, she's just very efficient. She was running a perfect campaign until the drivers license gaff awhile ago, then her husband started messing up shit in SC.

She's going to win the majority of super tuesday states; that's a fact. But the more important question is "how bad will Obama lose in the big states?" I don't see Obama being blown out anywhere, even in NY.

 

[Cheebs]

Hillary isn't robotic per se, she's just very efficient. She was running a perfect campaign until the drivers license gaff awhile ago, then her husband started messing up shit in SC.

She's going to win the majority of super tuesday states; that's a fact. But the more important question is "how bad will Obama lose in the big states?" I don't see Obama being blown out anywhere, even in NY.

Like I said before. That isn't what Obama needs. All it assures is the fact the DNC will force her to make him her VP to keep the party stable.

 

[DeathbyVolcano]

I just don't think Hilary has what it takes to beat McCain. *shrugs*

 

[Cheebs]

I just don't think Hilary has what it takes to beat McCain. *shrugs*

Based on what exactly? The Clintons are infamous for being impossible to defeat, for a good reason. They'll do ANYTHING to win. They have a unrelenting drive to win elections, which I do not see in McCain.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Based on what exactly? The Clintons are infamous for being impossible to defeat, for a good reason. They'll do ANYTHING to win. They have a unrelenting drive to win elections, which I do not see in McCain.

McCain would beat her. Hillary is going to turn off a lot of voters, mainly independants and some moderates. Many democrats won't even be enthused to vote for her, but I'd imagine most are more mature than some of the fools on GAF who agree with her on nearly every issue but won't vote for her cuz she's a meanie

 

[j-wood]

He doesn't seem like the "cheery" sort, whereas you can tell Clinton has that side of her when she laughs.

....you can't be serious? When she laughs? Man when I hear that laugh of hers, I don't think she's cheery, I get the feeling that she just beat down the power rangers and is about to take over the world.

 

[Cheebs]

Many democrats won't even be enthused to vote for her, but I'd imagine most are more mature than some of the fools on GAF who agree with her on nearly every issue but won't vote for her cuz she's a meanie

Yep. Obama fans on GAF =/= Obama fans in reality. on MSNBC they sourced a recent poll were over 90% of Obama supporters would vote for Hillary if she got the nomination. But that still does not contradict my point that the party will force her to make him VP to keep the party stable. If only to keep the powerful insiders like the Kennedys who are anti-Clinton happy.

Unless Howard Dean is insanely stupid (and unlike his horrible 2004 run his job as head of DNC he has been nothing but stellar) he knows they have to keep Obama in the spotlight despite if he wins or not.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Being her VP would kinda deflate his entire message though.

 

[APF]

Who are the people who would rather not go back to the Clinton years, or whatever Obameh said?

 

[StoOgE]

I think Hillary is a real problem in the general election simply because she is too polarizing. I really really want Obama to win the nom, but I will fall in line and vote for her when it comes down to it, policy wise they are nearly identical. I have my reservations that she actually means giant blocs of what she says, but thats another issue.

I think McCain is getting a free pass right now that will go away in the next few months, he has some questionable votes lately as well. I think he is harder to beat than huckabee or romney would have been, but his 100 years in Iraq, the failing economy and some other things will come back to get him.

 

[lil smoke]

I really really want Obama to win the nom, but I will fall in line and vote for her when it comes down to it

Why do people do this? Why do people "fall in line" and vote against their better judgement?

 

[Cheebs]

Being her VP would kinda deflate his entire message though.

This is politics. Obama does not deserve to be president if he does not realize being VP is a safer way to being president than sitting in the senate for another decade. EVERY VP of elected presidents since Nixon was Ike's VP has been nominated for president save 2 (Cheney didn't want it and quayle is well... dan quayle).

Someone on Countdown a few weeks ago correctly said seeing Obama in the white house for 4-8 years as VP will make him seem much more acceptable by whites who currently are wishy-washy about him.

Obviously for me the #1 concern is getting him in the White House as president NOW, but the point is he is in a very good position in terms of "waiting in line" in terms of democratic politics.

Someone who came to national politics just in 2005, a mere 2 years ago right now is second in line amongst the elite of the party to be their next leader no matter what happens in this primary is a damn big accomplishment.

Why do people do this? Why do people "fall in line" and vote against their better judgement?

Their better judgement? How so? Hillary is the same on 99.9% issues and beliefs of Obama fans unlike McCain?

Their only difference is a very very slight difference on health care. Every issue other than that they are identical.

 

[iapetus]

Why do people do this? Why do people "fall in line" and vote against their better judgement?

Because they're left with what's essentially a choice between two candidates, and have to vote for whichever is least worst or have their vote end up worthless.

 

[Cheebs]

Because they're left with what's essentially a choice between two candidates, and have to vote for whichever is least worst or have their vote end up worthless.

Yep. Obama fans have two options if this happens. A candidate whose personality they dislike but agree with policy wise on nearly every issue or a candidate they agree with on very little.

 

[lil smoke]

Because they're left with what's essentially a choice between two candidates, and have to vote for whichever is least worst or have their vote end up worthless.

Yes, and what happens when everyone is thinking the same thing?

 

[StoOgE]

Why do people do this? Why do people "fall in line" and vote against their better judgement?

because while I prefer Obama, I greatly prefer Clinton to McCain.

You will never vote for someone you agree 100% with. So, you have to find the person that is the closest, and between Hillary and McCain, Hillary is an easy choice. That doesn't mean I dont strongly prefer Obama.. but its like this..

Obama >>>>>> Hillary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> McCain

 

[Cheebs]

Yes, and what happens when everyone is thinking the same thing?

uh..what?

Obama >>>>>> Hillary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> McCain

I don't know why any Obama fan would prefer McCain but it wont exist come the fall. When McCain and Hillary start throwing blows at one another come the fall the liberals will fall in line. Jerry Brown fans who had a VERY bitter primary battle with Bill Clinton in 1992 booed Bill Clinton at the convention, but in the end they all voted for Bill.

 

[lil smoke]

Because they're left with what's essentially a choice between two candidates, and have to vote for whichever is least worst or have their vote end up worthless.

Right. People want to vote for the percieved "winning candidate", as not to waste their vote.

 

[Qwerty710710]

Latest NJ poll

49-37 Clinton

 

[Lefty42o]

uh..what?



I don't know why any Obama fan would prefer McCain but it wont exist come the fall. When McCain and Hillary start throwing blows at one another come the fall the liberals will fall in line. Jerry Brown fans who had a VERY bitter primary battle with Bill Clinton in 1992 booed Bill Clinton at the convention, but in the end they all voted for Bill.

I already said Hillary is divisive. I would vote for mcain over her if she got the nom even if obama was her vp.

28 years of either bush or clinton in the presidency i want change and want to heal this nation. voting in another clinton would just be more of the same.

and if you think i am alone in this thinking than you have hit your head. i would gladly see a moderate republican willing to work with democrats like mcain over another 4-8 years of clinton with ease.

its funny cause in a system where our founding fathers decided one man or one family could not control the government we have this. We live in world where my kids and I only know 2 names as president. Bush - Clinton. I for one am not proud of that. so the only 2 families that are qualified to be president are bush or clinton?

this is why obama has the support he does. cause alot of us, specially those of us younger, are tired of Bush, clinton. and like i said will gladly vote mcain over another clinton.

 

[Rur0ni]

I already said Hillary is divisive. I would vote for mcain over her if she got the nom even if obama was her vp.

28 years of either bush or clinton in the presidency i want change and want to heal this nation. voting in another clinton would just be more of the same.

and if you think i am alone in this thinking than you have hit your head. i would gladly see a moderate republican willing to work with democrats like mcain over another 4-8 years of clinton with ease.

I think my view on this matter, is when it comes down to the general election, what both McCain and Clinton say and commit to, will sway my vote. I agree on Clinton policy issues, compared to McCain. But her character is nauseating. I support the military and vets, and I stand with McCain there, but I don't agree on his economy/abortion stance.

As sick as it would make me to have another Clinton, and I do feel Obama is the better suited candidate to unite America (Speeches do this), if McCain goes in a direction during the general that I do not find satisfactory, then I may have to side with Clinton.

 

[Wraith]

and if you think i am alone in this thinking than you have hit your head. i would gladly see a moderate republican willing to work with democrats like mcain over another 4-8 years of clinton with ease.

I like how everyone thinks McCain will just shit all over the Rep party if he becomes president. He's going to have to fall in line eventually. If he doesn't AND he gets the nomination, the Republicans will lose big as they will have basically disenfranchised their base. The idea that he's going to stay moderate over the coming months is simply ludicrous.

Face it: The Republican base wont vote for McCain unless he starts coming off more conservative on issues. McCain needs that base to win. Ergo, McCain will become more and more conservative as time goes by. In the end, voting for McCain is going to be voting a Republican into office and voting for Clinton OR Obama is going to be putting a Democrat into office. The "LOL MODERATE" thing is a scam and I don't understand why people continue to buy into it.

Also, any Democrat who would consider voting for a Republican in the upcoming election because of their dislike for the Democratic candidate is not seeing the bigger picture. Do the Dems really want a Republican in control of SC nominations going forward? For either side, voting against your party in this election because of some idealistic hope that the opposing party's candidate is going to be moderate or bi-partisan is simply naive.

 

[Souldriver]

Soo, who won this debate? And why? Didn't get the chance to watch it. Were there entertaining parts?