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[Sir Hamish]

Spoiler

I think it's just a production error.

Spoiler

He clearly leaves with River and Octavion during that scene. Then we see him with River and Octavion again in the next scene, with his jacket off. It doesn't really seem like he would have had time to tell Amy some cryptic mumbo jumbo, it must be future Doctor coming back to warn her or something. Muddling about in his own time stream. Remember the eleventh hour when we see Amy waiting as a kid for the Tardis again right at the end and hear the Tardis materialising? But then older Amy wakes up and it appears like it was a dream? I'm guessing it wasn't, time is being re-written

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Also, if you thought he'd take the rules from the Blink angels and apply them here, you were crazy, as I suggested earlier. Those creatures were written as a one-off for that episode at the time.

It's not at all crazy to expect some consistency. Why bring them back if you're going to retcon their abilitites? I find it odd that the RTD haters will defend plot holes that they would have condemned in a Davies episode.

Some people are claiming that

Spoiler

an Atraxi eye is visible on one of the flight deck monitors, but I'm not convinced.

 

[Diablos54]

Spoiler

He clearly leaves with River and Octavion during that scene. Then we see him with River and Octavion again in the next scene, with his jacket off. It doesn't really seem like he would have had time to tell Amy some cryptic mumbo jumbo, it must be future Doctor coming back to warn her or something. Muddling about in his own time stream. Remember the eleventh hour when we see Amy waiting as a kid for the Tardis again right at the end and hear the Tardis materialising? But then older Amy wakes up and it appears like it was a dream? I'm guessing it wasn't, time is being re-written

Well I'm still not entirely convinced, but i suppose it's possible. Nothing to do but wait and see I guess.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Spoiler

He clearly leaves with River and Octavion during that scene. Then we see him with River and Octavion again in the next scene, with his jacket off. It doesn't really seem like he would have had time to tell Amy some cryptic mumbo jumbo, it must be future Doctor coming back to warn her or something. Muddling about in his own time stream. Remember the eleventh hour when we see Amy waiting as a kid for the Tardis again right at the end and hear the Tardis materialising? But then older Amy wakes up and it appears like it was a dream? I'm guessing it wasn't, time is being re-written

Spoiler

So are they basically going for bad wolf again with all the episodes subtly hinting/building to something in the finale? Having time being rewritten as the show goes on leaves a LOT of room for cool little nods.

 

[RedShift]

Anyone notice that

Spoiler

when the doctor goes off with River and Octavion he has no jacket on, since the angels have it. but a second later he appears to amy with his jacket on, says something cryptic about remembering something then leaves and the next scene cuts to him without his jacket wandering along with river and octavion.

Either it's a really big production error or it's a different doctor.

Spoiler

Shiiiiiiiit. Man I always miss these things. Definitely seems likely. The way the Doctor said see ya Amy and pats her on the head only to come back and say something else, and the otherwise pointless shot of the jacket being held by the Angel. Too much to be a production error.

Maybe the real bad wolf style 'ark' of this series isn't the obvious shots of cracks in time, but points where the Doctor is from another time. Any parts from other episodes that fit?

 

[NekoFever]

I have to admit that I wasn't a big fan of a treatment of the angels in this episode.

One of the key points in Blink was that they could quantum lock each other, which is why the angels in the house ended up trapped in stone form because once the Tardis disappeared they were stuck looking at each other. That seems to have been completely disregarded now. Hell, weren't they called weeping angels because they covered their eyes to avoid observing each other?

Also, wasn't the whole point that they didn't 'kill' you but rather transported you through time and fed off your time energy or whatever? What happened to that?

And showing them moving? Just no. Took away all of their creepiness IMO. Their beauty was in their simplicity, but they saddled them with all these weird abilities and additions to their mythology. Are you telling me that Sally Sparrow never looked them in the eyes?

A decent enough episode in every other sense, but I didn't like the angels in it at all.

 

[Sir Hamish]

Spoiler

So are they basically going for bad wolf again with all the episodes subtly hinting/building to something in the finale? Having time being rewritten as the show goes on leaves a LOT of room for cool little nods.

Spoiler

Yeah I'm guessing so. It would be pretty clever, and Moffat clearly plans ahead unlike RTD. If you go back and watch the scene again, bearing in mind this theory, the change in tone and the jacket definatley stick out. Obviously something happens and he jumps back into Amy's life at various times in the past to change an outcome.

 

[Sir Hamish]

Spoiler

Any parts from other episodes that fit?

Spoiler

yeah, the 'dream' in the Eleventh Hour. After the Doctor leaves her for the second time we get a shot of a young Amy Pond waiting for the Tardis, different time of day i think, and we hear the Tardis materialise but older Amy suddenly wakes up implying it's a dream, but it probably wasn't

Oh and we never found out how Amy sent that message to herself in The Beast Below

 

[infiniteloop]

Enjoying the meltdown over Amy trying to fuck the Doctor on the Who forums.

also about how 'arrogant' Moffat is by reseting the RTD years :lol

 

[Diablos54]

Spoiler

yeah, the 'dream' in the Eleventh Hour. After the Doctor leaves her for the second time we get a shot of a young Amy Pond waiting for the Tardis, different time of day i think, and we hear the Tardis materialise but older Amy suddenly wakes up implying it's a dream, but it probably wasn't

Oh and we never found out how Amy sent that message to herself in The Beast Below

Spoiler

I assumed that she recorded it before she forgot, just after she pressed the button, could be wrong, it was never stated how it was done.

 

[Liquid Helium]

It's not at all crazy to expect some consistency. Why bring them back if you're going to retcon their abilitites? I find it odd that the RTD haters will defend plot holes that they would have condemned in a Davies episode.

Some people are claiming that

Spoiler

an Atraxi eye is visible on one of the flight deck monitors, but I'm not convinced.

Spoiler

Well, I don't know if this is actually an eye, or just something that looks like one, but looking through iPlayer I found this. http://i40.tinypic.com/1zlfb5k.jpg


And as for the 2 doctors theory, it does sound plausible

 

[Sir Hamish]

Spoiler

Well, I don't know if this is actually an eye, or just something that looks like one, but looking through iPlayer I found this. http://i40.tinypic.com/1zlfb5k.jpg


And as for the 2 doctors theory, it does sound plausible

Spoiler

I thought it was an eye too, but if you look at the other monitors there is a clear blue border round the edges of the screen and I think it's just the border moving around on the screen to indicate the computers are going ape shit

 

[DodgerSan]

Spoiler

Well, I don't know if this is actually an eye, or just something that looks like one, but looking through iPlayer I found this. http://i40.tinypic.com/1zlfb5k.jpg


And as for the 2 doctors theory, it does sound plausible

Spoiler

Apparently, it's more the sequence at 26.40, but it's still hard to see.

Does this need to be spoilered?

 

[Parl]

Spoiler

Well, I don't know if this is actually an eye, or just something that looks like one, but looking through iPlayer I found this. http://i40.tinypic.com/1zlfb5k.jpg


And as for the 2 doctors theory, it does sound plausible

Spoiler

Well, this very much looks like an eyeball - http://i42.tinypic.com/19npf.jpg

 

[infiniteloop]

Spoiler

Does this need to be spoilered?

I don't get why people are spoilering stuff that's already been broadcast. It's confusing when I don't want to read about upcoming episodes but do want to read about this one

 

[JonathanEx]

I don't get why people are spoilering stuff that's already been broadcast. It's confusing when I don't want to read about upcoming episodes but do want to read about this one

Americans, or iPlayer/Sun night viewers possibly? I suppose it's polite to spoiler it on the night/few days after broadcast, after that fine, maybe people should just make a bit clearer what the spoiler's about. If you catch my drift.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Sexy Amy Pond. That is all.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I definitely think that the Doctor that came back to talk to Amy after he left is one from the future (probably the finale). Not only was his jacket on, but his mannerisms were much different now I rewatched it. Her eyes were closed, and all of the soldiers had their back turned too which could be used as a way for The Doctor infringing on his own timeline

Something will probably happen to Amy in the finale, and he will go back through their timeline together to fix things - seemingly helping her remember.

 

[Ripclawe]

Spoiler

It was either a production error with the Doctor coming back a bit to talk to Amy the second time and they forgot the jacket or there were two doctors in different points in time. Maybe talking to her thru her mind

 

[Piggo]

"That's why they cover their eyes. They're not weeping, they can't risk looking at each other. Their greatest asset is their greatest curse. They can never be seen."

"Loneliest creatures in the Universe."

Edit: Just realised that sort of looks like a rave in a forest, just to make it even funnier. The Angels would probably do a seriously bad-ass robot if there was a strobe light there.

 

[Blader]

I don't see how it could be a production error; wasn't it all in the same take?

 

[somedevil]

Spoiler

It was either a production error with the Doctor coming back a bit to talk to Amy the second time and they forgot the jacket or there were two doctors in different points in time. Maybe talking to her thru her mind

Spoiler

I believe there are two doctors at different points due to jacket and also near the end of the episode he says time can be rewritten meaning that something happens in the future and he knows that he can rewrite it in the past to change the outcome.

 

[Keyser Soze]

I don't see how it could be a production error; wasn't it all in the same take?

There is a cut.

Doctor with jacket talk and leaves
Amy calls for Doctor
Cut to Amy's hands, and Doctor without jacket holds on to them and talks

Easily could be production error, as once there is a cut for us to see, that means stuff could be filmed at opposite ends of each day, or even a few days apart.

I still go with clever timey-wimey stuff

 

[Tokubetsu]

Yea, this is definitely going to be one episode to re-watch later in the season.

 

[electroshockwave]

I'm a bit annoyed about them breaking their own rules for the Weeping Angels too. And I don't see why they did it. The Angels could just have easily moved close to Amy by having the lights flicker so that they couldn't see each other.

And it seemed a bit sudden at the end when Amy was all lusty and it's a little annoying that they could be going for another possible romance or one-sided attraction story for the companion like Rose or Martha. On the other hand I would definitely like to sort Amy Pond out.

I definitely think that the Doctor that came back to talk to Amy after he left is one from the future (probably the finale). Not only was his jacket on, but his mannerisms were much different now I rewatched it. Her eyes were closed, and all of the soldiers had their back turned too which could be used as a way for The Doctor infringing on his own timeline

Something will probably happen to Amy in the finale, and he will go back through their timeline together to fix things - seemingly helping her remember.

Yeah, the thing that he wants her to remember that he told her when she was seven probably happened when he went back to young Amelia in the first episode.

 

[Blader]

Amy lunging at the Doctor didn't make sense to me, especially given how Moffat, Smith, and Gillan have all said there wouldn't be a Doctor/Amy romance.

 

[Raydeen]

I agree the Angels kinda become throwaway in this episode to the

Spoiler

time crack thingy

. Like some of the posters observed, a bit messy - but that's the peril of being being the showrunner; re-writing so many other peoples episodes, writing your own...Moffat's days of fine tuning the scripts to perfection are over. Still light years ahead of anything else I've seen on British TV of late and I'm really digging Matt's Doctor. The Daily Fail are going to have a field day with slut amy.

OK I'm calling it. Amy'is really...

Spoiler

The Valeyard, being mindcontrolled by Davros and his army of Zygon slaves

Also loved the way he did a reset on RTD years. Lolz!

 

[Tokubetsu]

I get the impression that she wasn't acting herself there though so im guessing it was purpose. Remember the Doctor was saying something to the effect that this was all happened because of her or she was heavily involved and didn't realize it. She probably causes the explosion the next day.

That said, she was crazy in the first episode so maybe this is just more of that spilling out. You know the whole doctor obsessed thing. I believe that more than the other recent companions, she has a lot of issues. Trying to run away the night before her wedding is only one of them.

 

[electroshockwave]

Also loved the way he did a reset on RTD years. Lolz!

As long as they don't erase everything that happened like the previous companions who would hopefully be immune because of their time spent with the Doctor. I appreciate that they might want to create a fresh start but even RTD didn't ignore the history when the new series began and he brought Sarah Jane Smith back.

 

[Blader]

I get the impression that she wasn't acting herself there though so im guessing it was purpose. Remember the Doctor was saying something to the effect that this was all happened because of her or she was heavily involved and didn't realize it. She probably causes the explosion the next day.

That said, she was crazy in the first episode so maybe this is just more of that spilling out. You know the whole doctor obsessed thing. I believe that more than the other recent companions, she has a lot of issues. Trying to run away the night before her wedding is only one of them.

Yeah, I assumed there was something wrong with her during that last scene, but I'll be disappointed if that's not how it turns out.

 

[Femmeworth]

I just watched both episodes together. Holy frak, that was intense! I am so glad I waited, since waiting another week for the conclusion would have driven me mad. Amy is definitely my favorite companion now. Something may have been wrong with her in that last scene, but I just think she is unstable. My goodness, the special effects were lovely. Doctor Who is so gorgeous in HD. :O

I don't get the complaints about the angels. Moffat may have been bending his own rules, but I don't think he disregarded them.

The "screw up" with the Doctor was definitely intentional.

 

[anaron]

There's no way it was a production error. Along with the jacket, the doctor is completely hectic in his delivery and is trying to remind something crucial to Amy down the line.


Really enjoyed the episode. Wish we had learned more about River's history but that'll come later I suppose. Can't wait to see her again.


The only thing that bugged was Amy at the end. Way too sudden and abrasive.

 

[rollingstart]

This show is so good

 

[Lard]

Anyone notice that

Spoiler

when the doctor goes off with River and Octavion he has no jacket on, since the angels have it. but a second later he appears to amy with his jacket on, says something cryptic about remembering something then leaves and the next scene cuts to him without his jacket wandering along with river and octavion.

Either it's a really big production error or it's a different doctor.

I didn't the first time, but I went back and checked. You're right.

It's not a production error, Moffat is sneaky like that.

One crack is sorted out, Amy's is not.

Looking forward to

Spoiler

Rory's swashbuckling.

 

[rollingstart]

Anyone notice that

Spoiler

when the doctor goes off with River and Octavion he has no jacket on, since the angels have it. but a second later he appears to amy with his jacket on, says something cryptic about remembering something then leaves and the next scene cuts to him without his jacket wandering along with river and octavion.

Either it's a really big production error or it's a different doctor.

My mind is blown if this is all plan and it seems totally plausible.

This show...DAMN

 

[maharg]

Am rewatching. There is no way that was a production mistake. Makes me wonder about that apparent error in the pilot with Rory's id badge.

 

[Tokubetsu]

Am rewatching. There is no way that was a production mistake. Makes me wonder about that apparent error in the pilot with Rory's id badge.

Yea, as I said earlier, I'm definitely getting Bad Wolf vibes.

 

[Ripclawe]

Yeah, doing some gifs and its is not a mistake.

and this is creepy when you flip and isolate it. and any time before I could post some possible profile gifs? spoilers and all.

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Am rewatching. There is no way that was a production mistake. Makes me wonder about that apparent error in the pilot with Rory's id badge.

I think the manner in which his sleeves are rolled confirms it, it's set out to be very subtle.

 

[maharg]

More thoughts on this: I think the thing where they're hammering us over the head with the crack has been a bit of a MacGuffin to draw attention away from the real unifying theme of the season. I was starting to feel let down a bit by the obviousness, but now I'm gaining new found respect for Moffat. He is a sneaky sneaky bastard.

I want this man to do a Terminator reboot. That would be so awesome. I don't think any TV/film writer has ever had a better grasp of the potential of time travel as a plot device as Moffat has proven to have.

 

[somedevil]

I think the manner in which his sleeves are rolled confirms it, it's set out to be very subtle.

Also compare his

Spoiler

shirts

in both scenes.

 

[Clevinger]

The next episode was written by the guy behind Being Human. The even better part? Gilbert is a vampire!

 

[Spirit of Jazz]

Also compare his

Spoiler

shirts

in both scenes.

I really can't tell what's different?

The next episode was written by the guy behind Being Human. The even better part? Gilbert is a vampire!

Also its scary you remember that, I'm not as intimidated when I see him as some 80s twat. Though I like the fact they've picked up the being human writer, could e a great episode.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Honestly. There's just no pleasing some people. :lol

This goes high on my all-time list, definitely.

Quote for truth.

Really, this is one of the few Moffat episodes I can think of that I can say entertained me all the way through. I will agree, however, that showing the angels

Spoiler

moving

was a mistake.

 

[Ripclawe]

Seriously don't know how the other guy does so much more. you could get stir crazy doing these.

 

[somedevil]

I really can't tell what's different?

yeah my mistake they are the same.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Seriously don't know how the other guy does so much more. you could get stir crazy doing these.

I have not done it for two weeks, it drove me over the edge

PS: They looks cool

 

[Alphahawk]

So I watched the first two episodes tonight.(Eleventh Hour and Beast Below) I really enjoyed all the complicated shit done in Eleventh Hour, specifically how The Doctor meets Amy

Spoiler

when she was seven

I also enjoyed how the Doctor defeated the monster, so obvious yet so clever.

The second episode, I wasn't that keen on, it was still good but almost a little to sad for my taste. Also like others have already pointed out some things alluded too are never explained

Spoiler

for instance the revelation that the queen is actually 250 is never really explained

Also

Spoiler

the fact that Amy essentially relied on a hunch, that if wrong would kill thousands of people was a little unrealistic

 

[Android18a]

Theory:

Spoiler

The one making the cracks is The Doctor himself. Perhaps he somehow loses the Tardis, but I think he is using the cracks himself to jump back to key points and fix things. Maybe Amy originally died in tihs episode, and the angels won, but the Doctor created this huge crack in time to save the day?

Probably utterly miles off.

 

[Jex]

It's pretty clear that Moffat will do whatever he wants, if that involves wiping away stuff from the RTD era of changing the Angels he just doesn't particularly care.

He obviously decided the angels were too interesting not to bring back, after all they are disturbing in a number of situations, but the rules he laid down for them earlier clearly only fit a few occasions, so he decided to jettison them. I can't say that it really hurts my soul if he wants to change around a monster.