infiniteloop
Member
neojubei said:
The 'Crack in Time' seems to act like a reset button if Amy doesn't remember the Daleks and London doesn't remember the giant Cyberman.
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Official Doctor Who Series 1, 5, 31, or Fnarg Thread of Moffat & Smith
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The 'Crack in Time' seems to act like a reset button if Amy doesn't remember the Daleks and London doesn't remember the giant Cyberman.
Overall I really liked the last episode but there were two things that seriously turned me off.
1. Helpless Amy. God she was annoying in this episode. It was bad enough having her blind, and constantly asking what was happening. But then they had to put her on her own and give her a horrible scooby-doo "I dropped my glasses" moment that made me want to cringe.
2. Moving Angels Totally took away from the scary awesome factor when you actually saw them move. But I guess this kind of thing allowed Moffat to use the angels in some new ways.
1. Helpless Amy. God she was annoying in this episode. It was bad enough having her blind, and constantly asking what was happening. But then they had to put her on her own and give her a horrible scooby-doo "I dropped my glasses" moment that made me want to cringe.
2. Moving Angels Totally took away from the scary awesome factor when you actually saw them move. But I guess this kind of thing allowed Moffat to use the angels in some new ways.
There is a major major difference between an RTD style Deus Ex Machina and a Moffat "Deus Ex Machina".
In an RTD episode, the Doctor would use some advanced technology that a viewer couldn't understand to get rid of all the enemies. Whatever that thing that burnt all the sky out in the Sontaran episode, Donna becoming part time lord or happy thoughts making the Doctor go into God Mode are all things that the reader could never have thought of, because they don't make any sense.
In a Moffat episode, the Doctor's solution will involve some alien stuff sure, but he'll manipulate it in a way that a viewer could have thought of in the same position. A normal person could have thought of trapping the angels by making them all see each other, or remembered the ship's gravity meant they were sideways. Given what they'd learnt in the episode a viewer could have thought of how to do it.
Basically-
RTD - Doctor displays knowledge
Moffat - Doctor displays wisdom
In an RTD episode, the Doctor would use some advanced technology that a viewer couldn't understand to get rid of all the enemies. Whatever that thing that burnt all the sky out in the Sontaran episode, Donna becoming part time lord or happy thoughts making the Doctor go into God Mode are all things that the reader could never have thought of, because they don't make any sense.
In a Moffat episode, the Doctor's solution will involve some alien stuff sure, but he'll manipulate it in a way that a viewer could have thought of in the same position. A normal person could have thought of trapping the angels by making them all see each other, or remembered the ship's gravity meant they were sideways. Given what they'd learnt in the episode a viewer could have thought of how to do it.
Basically-
RTD - Doctor displays knowledge
Moffat - Doctor displays wisdom
Wow, I only just got round round to watching both the episodes since I wanted to watch them back to back instead of waiting a week to see what happens next and Moffat has amazed me again.
When I first saw the scene when the Doctor goes back to Amy I did think it was a bit odd
Speaking of which, do you guys think
When I first saw the scene when the Doctor goes back to Amy I did think it was a bit odd
that he'd return so quickly after he is heard from quite a distance away and the way he was talking sounded a bit out of place to me but I have to agree with Doctor going back in time to fix something theory in this thread now. It makes far too much sense. I think in the last episode the Doctor will go back to tell Amy something when she is seven then comes to her in this episode (Maybe easing up on the brakes like River said so no-one hears the Tardis) to see if she remembers it.
Speaking of which, do you guys think
River killing the Doctor is going to happen this series or do you think we won't see that until another one?
Hot Coldman
Banned
Bricfa said:
This will never happen again. I'd bet good money on that. The only reason the Angels moved slowly like that is because they were unsure as to whether they were able to do so... I think. No way will anyone write a similar scenario, whereby someone is temporarily blind like Amy was, again.
Sir Hamish
Member
OMG Aero said:
I'm guessing
this won't happen. All the dialogue River and the Doctor have shared have commited River to appearing in a whole load of episodes and being around for a very long time. Unless they imply these adventures happen in the interm period between seasons, I'm expecting them to use the rewriting history plot device to change a lot of the River song story, possibly by saving her life/preventing her going to the library. I mean, what if Matt Smith wants to stay on for another 2 seasons, it means they'd have to keep River for another two aswell
Femmeworth
Banned
I definitely believe that Moffat is not done with the Weeping Angels. He still hasn't explained how they are created.Blader5489 said:
I'm assuming it was just those specific Angels which were wiped, so there could possibly be others about somewhere.Blader5489 said:
And I don't see
River killing the Doctor, if that if who she killed, happening for a while. And by that I mean after the Doctor regenerates again at least.
Femmeworth
Banned
Can we not speak about the Doctor possibly regenerating again? 
I want Smith to stay around for a good while.
I want Smith to stay around for a good while.Liquid Helium
Member
Isn't matt smith booked for another series? so surely river doesn't kill him.
Jex
Member
RedShift said:
Actually as I said earlier, RTD uses Deus Ex Machina while Moffat uses Chekov's Gun.
A Deus Ex comes from nowhere, a Chekov's gun is set up earlier - the gun shot in Scene 3 was on the wall in Scene 1 - this is Moffat. Something happens at the start of an episode - and later on it will be used logically to deal with something.
Liquid Helium
Member
Diablos54 said:
In the end of the next series? I guess
Eteric Rice
Member
I think the most interesting thing would be that the Doctor with the different coat is an alternate Doctor from another universe.
Hell, seeing alternate Doctors would be pretty interesting. Maybe an evil one?
Hell, seeing alternate Doctors would be pretty interesting. Maybe an evil one?
APZonerunner
Member
It's just a shame the show is being pushed around the schedules as it is. Missing Julie Gardner there. Anyway - we don't have another Moffat episode until the finale now, do we? Not sure.
APZonerunner
Member
Yeah, thought as much. It'll be interesting, as while we all know all-too well that Moffat is a fantastic writer all these episodes written by other people in a row are going to be the real test of how he performs as a show runner. I'm sure he's going to do great, though. Excited.
wind_steaker
Member
Remember that even after Matt finishes as the doctor River can still pop up in any episode required due to the whole timey wimey thing! So whoever she has killed could come up at any time and if it is
The Doctor then I imagine it'd be when he regenerates, but who knows, that could be too obvious for Moffat
Spotless Mind
Member
I actually thought it was very Moffat-like (he did write Coupling after all), as well as being very, very funny. The sexualisation of Amy hasn't exactly been subtle - her kissogram profession, the skimpy outfits, her obvious satisfaction in watching The Doctor strip etc. It's her wedding night and she's acting out after this strange guy whisked her away on some unbelievable adventures. The forward nature of her behaviour was refreshing to me in comparison to the pining, melodramatic pap of Rose and Martha. It's a nice little glimpse into her psyche. It is also surprising considering the audience for this show. :lolGreen Scar said:
I'm glad this went down early on in the season and it's obvious from The Doctor's hilarious reaction they won't be going further in that direction... for now at least. Matt Smith nailed his obliviousness. :lol
I really loved the episode itself, although i'm a little irked by the reinvention of some of the weeping angel "rules". I wasn't really a fan of giving them a voice through Bob and "the walk like you can see" scene kinda goes against what has been established. They still remained creepy as hell and awesome to watch, so i can't complain too much. Amy's countdown was probably my favourite part of the episode.
Loved River's allusions to events that have yet to pass. Thinking about this not being the first time she has met Amy makes my mind boggle. Such timey wimey goodness.
Femmeworth
Banned
I doubt that River
killed The Doctor. It wouldn't make any sense why she would be in prison, since he would just regenerate. I think it's more likely that she kills someone that is close to The Doctor. A future companion, perhaps? Whoever it is, they would have to be from the same time period as her.
forgeforsaken
Member
To me one of the interesting questions about River from the latest episode
was that the Bishop always used the term "who and what you are." To me that what is important as most relationship status would be cover with the "who."
Femmeworth
Banned
I thought he just meant that she was just aforgeforsaken said:
murderer.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
border said:
What if
she killed him for good? It's obvious she's seen a whole lot of doctors, thus it's more than possible she'd been in contact with and killed the last incarnation; especially given he's likely to cause as many problems as he's solved.
GameplayWhore
Member
They've already implied that there's another Important Person we haven't seen yet (or have seen yet but we don't know it). Maybe
.
she kills whoever it was that taught her about the blue stabilizers and how to fly the TARDIS
Dr Zhivago
Member
The magic date :
River :
RTD : Foolishly, before the start of this series I thought 'at least the RTD haters will be quiet now'. Seriously, the guy's gone now, can you please get over it? Whenever I see someone start whining about Davies, I stop reading.
Chekov's Gun : Wasn't this spoofed in an episode of Babylon 5, where they had Walter Koenig draw a lot of attention to his gun which he then never used?
It makes more sense if it's the date of the first part of the two-parter, because the wedding can happen and all the shit can kickoff with the Universe exploding and the Myrka returning and whatnot. Then the Doctor can go back through his own timeline in the second episode and fix it all.
River :
Seems a bit too obvious that's she killed the Doctor, also she didn't seem very upset about it. Either it's someone else or it's a fake death where she appears or pretends to kill him for some reason. Probably due to the Myrka.
RTD : Foolishly, before the start of this series I thought 'at least the RTD haters will be quiet now'. Seriously, the guy's gone now, can you please get over it? Whenever I see someone start whining about Davies, I stop reading.
Chekov's Gun : Wasn't this spoofed in an episode of Babylon 5, where they had Walter Koenig draw a lot of attention to his gun which he then never used?
B_Rik_Schitthaus
Banned
Dr Zhivago said:
RTD is a ball of shit.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
B_Rik_Schitthaus said:
And the biggest hypocrite. Half of his writing problems would be solved if he weren't a lazy procrastinator... and then he gets hysterical when people call him lazy.
Dr Zhivago
Member
Funny, I thought I heard someone post...
RTD always seemed to be a first draft and it's done writer. The guy would probably be amazing as part of a two-man writing team.
RTD didn't suck in the 2005 series, he did some shitty things but the man was a lot more focused on the show. Doctor Who was no sure thing, as beloved as it was. It'd been off the air for a long ass time. It takes a real fan to bring Doctor Who back, and they bought it back the best way. Burping bins were easily pushed aside when it's the same episode as 'Run!' and the Doctor's speech about feeling the earth move.
None of it is perfect, but the failings of the 2005 series are only so much more magnified because RTD repeated every good or bad idea he had over and over again.
It's kind of the way that while we all like Moffat, the more he does the more we see him repeating himself. It's just my lord and savior the creator of Press Gang tends to execute and flesh out his old ideas so they stand up better to repeated scrutiny.
Oh and I love Amy too, but it seems like just because she's 'not shit' and 'very hot' everyone is going a little nuts with praise. Granted though, if the internet existed back in the day I imagine Zoe, Leela and Peri would be getting much the same treatment.
RTD didn't suck in the 2005 series, he did some shitty things but the man was a lot more focused on the show. Doctor Who was no sure thing, as beloved as it was. It'd been off the air for a long ass time. It takes a real fan to bring Doctor Who back, and they bought it back the best way. Burping bins were easily pushed aside when it's the same episode as 'Run!' and the Doctor's speech about feeling the earth move.
None of it is perfect, but the failings of the 2005 series are only so much more magnified because RTD repeated every good or bad idea he had over and over again.
It's kind of the way that while we all like Moffat, the more he does the more we see him repeating himself. It's just my lord and savior the creator of Press Gang tends to execute and flesh out his old ideas so they stand up better to repeated scrutiny.
Oh and I love Amy too, but it seems like just because she's 'not shit' and 'very hot' everyone is going a little nuts with praise. Granted though, if the internet existed back in the day I imagine Zoe, Leela and Peri would be getting much the same treatment.
I'm really interested in - although also *extremely* nervous about - how Simon Nye's and Richard Curtis's episodes pan out; they're unconventional writers for this sort of thing. Admittedly, I'm not sure they'll be that good a benchmark, given that it's down to them as writers as much as it is Moffat as showrunner, but if both of them are good, I'll be very pleased indeed for the future of the show.APZonerunner said:
wind_steaker said:
Crazy thought:
she poisoned Hartnell in secret. It fits the *letter* of the suspicions, but turns them on their head, and his death never really fit properly with the rest of the regenerations
More realistic thought:
You're not *necessarily* sentenced for a crime you actually committed. What if she has to make someone *think* she'd killed the Doctor to allow him to get away?
Something somewhere between the two:
The Valeyard
turk128 said:
Time can be rewritten, yes, but identities are rather tougher to rewrite. I was toying with the idea of her being The Rani, after all, but there's one *hugely* important flaw: we saw her die, properly, for good. It just hasn't happened to her yet.
Having said that, there's one other thought. When Romana regenerated in the show, she tried on a number of different regenerations before selecting one that she liked - which was the look of someone who'd previously appeared on the programme. Is River Song *actually* River Song, or a timelord who stole her identity?
Having said that, there's one other thought. When Romana regenerated in the show, she tried on a number of different regenerations before selecting one that she liked - which was the look of someone who'd previously appeared on the programme. Is River Song *actually* River Song, or a timelord who stole her identity?
Eteric Rice said:I think the most interesting thing would be that the Doctor with the different coat is an alternate Doctor from another universe.
Hell, seeing alternate Doctors would be pretty interesting. Maybe an evil one?
I'm fully expecting Tennant's 'earth' Doctor to return as an evil doppleganger bastard in the future.
Keyser Soze
Member
I still really want to watch Graham Norton tonight as Karen Gillen is on it. He'll annoy the fuck out of me, but she'll balance things out, and Alan Davies might make tip things over into the good side of the scale.
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